General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Averroes1]

He mentions it several times when talking about the Source and Jack Kirby.

But this scan in particular is what I am referring to:

 

[Deagonx]

He mentions it several times when talking about the Source and Jack Kirby.

I believe he only mentioned it once, saying that Jack was inspired by Kabbalah when he wrote the Source. I don't know of any other instance than that one.

But this scan in particular is what I am referring to:

I see, although this is him describing Supergods, his personal book, not anything he worked on for DC or DC's cosmology. Thank you for sharing, however.

 

[Robo432343]

it makes sense that the presence should have every single ability in dc right? just like TOAA

 

[Xearsay]

He mentions it several times when talking about the Source and Jack Kirby.

But this scan in particular is what I am referring to:

He mentions it in the comics a lot too but I don’t really think solely mentioning it is the most important part. What I find more important is that Grant seems to largely structures the cosmic scale of things around a Kabbalah system. And this makes it so you have to be familiar with the ideas he’s getting at in his stories before trying to fully understand them.

 

[Deagonx]

What I find more important is that Grant seems to largely structures the cosmic scale of things around a Kabbalah system

This is sort of a misapplication of what Grant is attempting to do. Grant also explicitly described the map as being based on Buddhism as well. No one single source takes the reins in Grants comics, he weaves in basically everything he can think of in different ways, so trying to understand/examine them from a single theological source will lead you to erroneous conclusions.

"Inspired by Primum Mobile illustrations, Buddhist mandalas, as well as the work of UFO inspired Boston architect Paul Laffoley (who draws cabalistic machines)"
And then he references Buddhism again, and Superstring theory.

All of Grant's work is a melting pot of everything he's ever interacted with all at once. It's not especially helpful to fixate on any one of those inspirations as a template for interpreting his work.

I think Grant even mentioned somewhere that the map had a more obvious Kabbalah tree appearance to itself before the final product was put out.

That quote is in NHT's post, but he wasn't talking about the map. He's referring to his book, Supergods.

 

[Xearsay]

This is sort of a misapplication of what Grant is attempting to do. Grant also explicitly described the map as being based on Buddhism as well. No one single source takes the reins in Grants comics, he weaves in basically everything he can think of in different ways, so trying to understand/examine them from a single theological source will lead you to erroneous conclusions.

Huh? I’m not supporting the idea that Grants comic should be only looked at from one lens so why are you even typing this to me?

That quote is in NHT's post, but he wasn't talking about the map. He's referring to his book, Supergods.

Yeah I already realized that, hence why I edited out of my comment what you’re replying to here.

 

[Deagonx]

Huh? I’m not supporting the idea that Grants comic should be only looked at from one lens so why are you even typing this to me?

Because you described it as a "Kabbalah system" when it's equally a "buddhist system" and "superstring theory" system and many others.

 

[Xearsay]

Because you described it as a "Kabbalah system" when it's equally a "buddhist system" and "superstring theory" system and many others.

No, I said the cosmic scale was “largely structured around” a Kabbalah system, which is not the same as saying the cosmic scale is only a Kabbalah system involving nothing else, like what you’ve interpreted.

Also, I‘ve consistently expressed before how Grants stories incorporate various different beliefs and theories, so I don’t know why you’d think I’d be arguing that it’s only Kabbalah.

 

[Deagonx]

Sounds like you agree with me then, so I have no issue.

 

[Averroes1]

To acknowledge something as an "Ain Sof Aur" is to have in mind that there is an Ain, and an Ain Sof (which is mentioned in DC), I believe Grants beliefs have largely affected a lot of aspects in the cosmology, such as the aspects of God.

I don't think we should be looking at "God" as just a single character with a single tier.

Also to be clear, Grant had called the Source the ain sof aur about two times, and constantly says that his idea of the Source is supposed to respect Kirbys beliefs.

 

[Deagonx]

I believe Grants beliefs have largely affected a lot of aspects in the cosmology, such as the aspects of God.

Of course they have. It's just crucial that they were inspired by many things other than Kabbalism. He brings up Buddhism a lot more often than Kabbalah.

Also to be clear, Grant had called the Source the ain sof aur about two times, and constantly says that his idea of the Source is supposed to respect Kirbys beliefs.

He said two times that Kirby's perspective on it was rooted in Kabbalism and the Ain Soph Aur, but it was always about Kirby, not his own affirmation. I'm not sure where he's ever said his idea of the Source is supposed to "respect" Kirby's belief. I mean, I'm sure he respects Kirby a great deal, but it is doubtless that he put his own spin on things and didn't shackle himself to what Kirby thought.

I just don't understand the need to build a bridge between Morrison and Kabbalism over any of the other many inspirations he had. Especially given he never really talks about Kabbalah unless he's talking about Kirby, which suggests to me its relatively low on his list of inspirations. When Michael Julius was doing it, in his seriously disturbed way, it was out of a clear motivation, as he thought he could extrapolate useful tiering info from Kabbalism by saying the Overvoid was "based on Kabbalism" when it wasn't.

 

[Averroes1]

Well, the Source is. Thats my point

 

[Deagonx]

The Source had inspiration from Kabbalah, but that doesn't inform any canonical conclusions about the Source beyond what was actually stated in the comics.

 

[Excellence616]

DC upgrade 1A, likely H1A

Let's separate the cosmology but without reducing respect for other writers and make it logical according to the dc storyline. So at first it was just darkness, then light appeared and gave birth to creation. [here] Darkness itself is great darkness, light is the overvoid [original presence...

vsbattles.com

 

[Deagonx]

The unending attempts at upgrading the cosmology have become tiresome, have we not had more than 10 in the last 3 months? I believe we should likely create a discussion rule that cosmology revisions for DC need to be approved by staff ahead of time before posted. They are all arduously long and the people making them largely are not very easy to communicate with.

 

[Antvasima]

Damn Ant cold wit it

My apologies if I misinterpreted the situation. I just had the impression that new members had come here to our community mainly just to relentlessly spam a single issue until they got their way, which severely detracted from everything else regarding this verse, and required massive amounts of time to deal with.

 

[Antvasima]

The unending attempts at upgrading the cosmology have become tiresome, have we not had more than 10 in the last 3 months? I believe we should likely create a discussion rule that cosmology revisions for DC need to be approved by staff ahead of time before posted. They are all arduously long and the people making them largely are not very easy to communicate with.

A discussion rule might be a good idea at this point, yes. Let Elizio33 and all of his collaborators take their time to investigate proper scaling for the DC Comics cosmology in private instead.

 

[Deagonx]

These are all of the DC cosmology upgrade threads from the last nine months.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/separating-cosmologies-is-irrelevant.162576/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleed-is-5d-dc-comics.161991/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-cosmology-crisis-cosmology-part-1.162162/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-upgrade-to-h1b-l1a-1a.162214/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-upgrade-1a-likely-h1a.163368/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-cosmology-upgrade-revenge-of-the-sith.163295/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/vertigo-neil-gaiman-and-mike-carey-revision.162150/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/j-m-dematteis-cosmology-revision.161925/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/misconception-about-the-overvoid.161962/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-demateis-cosmology-and-yet-part-2.161662/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-demateis-cosmology-and-yet.161329/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-dimensions.161282/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-j-m-dematteis-cosmology-downgrade.153905/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/vertigo-comics-the-void-1-a-upgrade.156434/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-vertigo-cosmology-revision.154052/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/lucifers-creation-infinite-dimension.152103/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/elaine-michael-lucifer-and-the-presence-possible-1-c-upgrade.153855/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-hands-revision.154904/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-follow-ups-earth-33-part-1.154792/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/verti...esence-is-high-1-a-lucifer-possibly-0.154153/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-follow-ups-bleedspace.154001/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/remove-transduality-from-monitor-mind-the-overvoid.153891/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-follow-up-upgrades-part-1.153794/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/williamson-dark-frontier-cosmology.152026/

Personally, I don't really have the stamina for it. Very few of these threads passed aside from the ones that were started by staff members, and I can't keep hashing out the same issues ad infinitum with members who will never agree with me and getting into long drawn out threads.

 

[Averroes1]

Some specific members probably should be put under some rules prohibiting them from posting upgrades without staff permission.

Locking upgrades to the verse as a whole is borderline authoritarian.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is far more than enough evidence to add a strict discussion rule that gives you the authority to quickly close them.

 

[Deagonx]

Locking upgrades to the verse as a whole is borderline authoritarian.

What? The vast majority of the verse is not cosmology related, I'm not proposing a blocking of Batman upgrades or other DC matters, just limiting the cosmology upgrade threads to those who obtain staff approval ahead of time. That's not "the verse as a whole."

 

[Antvasima]

Some specific members probably should be put under some rules prohibiting them from posting upgrades without staff permission.

Locking upgrades to the verse as a whole is borderline authoritarian.

We will get upgrades to the verse anyway thanks to Elizio33 and his collaborators. We just need a discussion rule against using previously rejected arguments or new members posting upgrade attempts, or somesuch, because this has turned unmanageable.

 

[Deagonx]

We could add a discussion rule that reads as follows:

Due to an overabundance of revision threads attempting to make sweeping changes to DC's cosmology, attempts to significantly change the cosmology (not including relatively compact and focused changes to singular aspects) should be coordinated with a knowledgeable staff member before being pursued.

We can alter the wording however you prefer.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems reasonable.

 

[Deagonx]

@Elizio33 @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Firestorm808 what do you think of the discussion rule wording above?

 

[Elizio33]

@Elizio33 @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Firestorm808 what do you think of the discussion rule wording above?

Very good

 

[Ramasugita11]

Yes, that is far more than enough evidence to add a strict discussion rule that gives you the authority to quickly close them.

Can you give me one more chance on my thread?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Elizio33 @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Firestorm808 what do you think of the discussion rule wording above?

I'd like to take some time to reword it. I'll comment later.

 

[Elizio33]

What about my proposal to reword our argument of dividing the DC cosmologies?

 

[Ramasugita11]

What about my proposal to reword our argument of dividing the DC cosmologies?

I have a good suggestion, how about dividing the cosmology based on the omniverse? perpetua one of the hands is the first creator and the other hand is also assigned the same as perpetua. Especially with the existence of an infinite multiverse that is separate from the perpetua multiverse. In the Overvoid there is an infinite multiverses

 

[Excellence616]

Incoming

 

[Excellence616]

Time stream is beyond dimensional

Sorry for another DC brain rot discussion thread. This won't take much time. Time stream is stated as "not confined by DIMENSIONAL SPACE" which got me thinking if they are referring to 3 dimensional space or higher.....If they want to state time stream as not limited by 3 dimensional space...

vsbattles.com

 

[Averroes1]

I beg you people.

You are literally going to add a rule making mfs unable to upgrade this verse and **** it over more then it already is.

 

[Deagonx]

You said that earlier, but this doesn't affect the entire verse or even 99.9% of it, just the cosmology page. I am not sure why you're being melodramatic about it. Upgrades can still be pursued, they just need to be coordinated with staff.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Elizio33 @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Firestorm808 what do you think of the discussion rule wording above?

Seems okay.

 

[Ramasugita11]

https://imgur.com/gallery/qnSSBgX

Yeah, Main Dc upgrade H1B-1A.
The Orrery of worlds contains infinite higher dimension, bleed likely L1A.
True form darkseid likely 1A, Daniel Hall main dc likely 1A
Perpetua, Mr mxy, Darkest Knight, Overvoid is 1A

 

[Deagonx]

That says "infinite higher dimensional region." That doesn't mean it's infinite dimensions, it means it's higher dimensional and is infinite in size.

 

[Ramasugita11]

That says "infinite higher dimensional region." That doesn't mean it's infinite dimensions, it means it's higher dimensional and is infinite in size.

That is hyperspace. https://imgur.com/gallery/VTs6dcU
Microverse contains higher dimension

 

[AcidSilver]

Not to interrupt this extremely long cosmology debate but it looks like while Superman has a noted lack of special defense against magic, Bizarro actually resists magic.

The comic later reiterates this via Lois and Jimmy.

He even absorbed all of the magic that got blasted at him on Sorcerer's World.

Even casts a backwards spell like Zatanna to make himself speak normal.
All scans are from Action Comics (2016) #1061.

 

[Antvasima]

I beg you people.

You are literally going to add a rule making mfs unable to upgrade this verse and **** it over more then it already is.

But it is fine to upgrade it if you, for example, first present your evidence to Elizio33 and Emirp sumitpo. We simply cannot deal with the sheer current amount of relentless spammy upgrade threads.