The Hands Revision

[Elizio33]

In today's thread, I'll talk about the justification behind the Attack Potency of The Hands. Although the current tier is good, the underlying reasoning is kind of poor.

"They are the Unseen Hands of Creation from beyond the Source Wall."

This does not justify their tier at all.

"Comparable to the Darkest Knight and Golden Wonder Woman."

Although the Hands acknowledged the Darkest Knight as a threat to them, the Darkest Knight needed Crisis Energy to destroy them as he told Wonder Woman that if she continued to fight him, the Hands would have come and would have been stronger than them both. This means that if they had fought, the Darkest Knight would have lost too much Crisis Energy to destroy the Hands, as Crisis Energy and its opposite can be depleted over time. Not to mention the Darkest Knight intended to use his multiverse to kill The Hands and Wonder Woman was only able to kick Undiminished Perpetua's hand. So I wouldn't say The Hands are comparable to the Darkest Knight and Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman, it's the opposite. They both scale to The Hands.

My proposal for the justificstion behind their Attack Potency: (As super celestial beings tending the infinite multiverses of the Greater Omniverse, The Hands are said to use the energies born from The Presence, of The Source to start and judge multiverses through the Overvoid beyond the Source Wall)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

The Rise of New Gods' Hand seems to be attributed to many different meaning. Since it was referring to the Source, “whose” Unseen Hands had built “The” Multiverse.

I believe it was that Unseen Hand we saw in Death of Multiverse Ends since the Source remade the Multiverse not “Multiverses” which the Hands made. So that scan isn't mentioning the Unseen Council.

Also, the Hands are lower in the hierarchy compared to the Judges and the Chronicler.

 

[Elizio33]

"The Hands", "Judges of the Source", "Super Celestials" names were all used interchangeably during the entire storyline, but the idea remains the same: Higher beings opperating in the Overvoid beyond the Source Wall and using the energies born from The Presence, of The Source. The difference is that those tasked with starting multiverses are inferior to the ascended Hands who judge multiverses and governs beings like the lower Hands like Perpetua and the Cosmic Raptor. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Chronicler is superior to the inferior Hands, he is just tasked to observe and record the stories of the dying multiverses in the Greater Omniverse.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

"The Hands", "Judges of the Source", "Super Celestials" names were all used interchangeably during the entire storyline, but the idea remains the same: they are higher beings opperating in the Overvoid beyond the Source Wall and using the power of The Presence, of The Source. The difference is that those tasked with starting multiverses are inferior to the ascended Hands who judge the multiverses. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Chronicler is superior to the inferior Hands.

They're not. They all have different functions but are all part of the “Unseen Council.”

DC Book of List

The Judges are the Unseen arbitrator of Justice and judges' reality.

The Hands is the Unseen species that tend and make Multiverses.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

The point is a Hand can be a Judge but they're not technically the same as the Hands. They've been only mentioned as interchangeable if you consider how Synder worded in the interview that “one of these beings” came as a Hand to judge that reality.

 

[Elizio33]

They're not. They all have different functions but are all part of the “Unseen Council.”

DC Book of List

The Judges are the Unseen arbitrator of Justice and judges' reality.

The Hands is the Unseen species that tend and make Multiverses.

Thank you for the information! But isn't this comes from the same guidebook stating that the presence isn't the supreme being of the Omniverse? Also, there's one thing about your scan. There is misinformation about the Sixth Dimension. The Sixth Dimension is not where multiverses are designed set in motion, it is where the multiverse was designed and set in motion. I guess it doesn't matter at all.

 

[Elizio33]

The point is a Hand can be a Judge but they're not technically the same as the Hands. They've been only mentioned as interchangeable if you consider how Synder worded in the interview that “one of these beings” came as a Hand to judge that reality.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying this! Shoud we add two keys for The Hands then? One for The Hands another for the Judges of the Source?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Thank you for the information! But isn't this comes from the same guidebook stating that the presence isn't the supreme being of the Omniverse? Also, there's one thing about your scan. There is misinformation about the Sixth Dimension. The Sixth Dimension is not where multiverses are designed set in motion, it is where the multiverse was designed and set in motion. I guess it doesn't matter at all.

Most Guidebooks or any summary tends to go over what is to easier to understand. It doesn't go into full detail.

Such as how one of the profiles suggests Perpetua’s abilities are “creating Multiverses” which is contradicted in the story itself.

As for the 6th Dimension, yeah it seems off but the rest looks good. As long as there all part of the Unseen hierarchy.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Okay. Thank you for clarifying this! Shoud we add two keys for The Hands then? One for The Hands another for the Judges of the Source?

I don't think that's a good idea. I prefer it to be the same due to the fact some Hands are Judges while others just make Multiverses since Perpetua is a prime example and she had “superiors.” So much so that if the Judges ever came would burn her Creation and her as well. This aligns with #7 when the Hands were there to “judge” that reality.

My takeaway I'm trying to make is not every “Hand” is a Judge. The Judges are a separate role since they're more responsible for maintaining order in the Omniverse rather than tending to Multiverses.

So we don't need a separate key for Judges but really it was just me nitpicking the information.

 

[Elizio33]

Most Guidebooks or any summary tends to go over what is to easier to understand. It doesn't go into full detail.

Such as how one of the profiles suggests Peroetua's abilities are “creating Multiverses” which is contradicted in the story itself.

As for the 6th Dimension, yeah it seems off but the rest looks good. As long as there all part of the Unseen hierarchy.

Yeah Perpetua's abilities needs a clean up. I remember Scott Snyder stating in a video that at the end of Death Metal, Wonder Woman met one of the beings (called in the story a Hand) that rule beings like Perpetua, but because Perpetua has diminished since her imprisonment in the Source Wall, I guess that's normal.

 

[Elizio33]

I don't think that's a good idea. I prefer it to be the same due to the fact some Hands are Judges while others just make Multiverses since Perpetua is a prime example and she had “superiors.” So much so that if the Judges ever came would burn her Creation and her as well. This aligns with #7 when the Hands were there to “judge” that reality.

My takeaway I'm trying to make is not every “Hand” is a Judge. The Judges are a separate role since they're more responsible for maintaining order in the Omniverse rather than tending to Multiverses.

So we don't need a separate key for Judges but really it was just me nitpicking the information.

okay

 

[Elizio33]

Anyway, are you agree with the justification?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Anyway, are you agree with the justification?

Yes and by the way although off-topic Overvoid should be downgraded to just Low 1-C.

 

[Eseseso]

Agree.

 

[Elizio33]

Yes and by the way although off-topic Overvoid should be downgraded to just Low 1-C.

If we're talking about it's position in the cosmology then yes since the Overvoid doesn't seems to have QS over the Sixth Dimension. If we're talking about its position in the cosmic hierarchy (power level and hierarchy), the Overvoid should stay 1-C since it's the same thing as The Source and The Presence. They are just interpreted differently according to different cultures and beliefs. Monitors views it as Monitor-Mind. New Gods views it as The Source. There are in fact the same, they are the Light in contrast to the Great Darkness.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

If we're talking about it's position in the cosmology then yes since the Overvoid doesn't seems to have QS over the Sixth Dimension. If we're talking about its position in the cosmic hierarchy (power level and hierarchy), the Overvoid should stay 1-C since it's the same thing as The Source and The Presence. They are just interpreted differently.

I also said this earlier but the Overvoid has no mention of QS over anything. Rather it's larger and a Void beyond Creation which supposedly has an end.

I mentioned it to someone else and Deagon agreed it has no QS over the 6th Dimension. Also, the Source being Overvoid is very controversial in my opinion and how Metal treats Overvoid seems to just be empty corrosive space rather than infinite nothingness where all contradiction dies. We might be able to cover this in a different CRT.

 

[Elizio33]

I also said this earlier but the Overvoid has no mention of QS over anything. Rather it's larger and a Void beyond Creation which supposedly has an end.

I mentioned it to someone else and Deagon agreed it has no QS over the 6th Dimension. Also, the Source being Overvoid is very controversial in my opinion and how Metak treats Overvoid seems to just be empty corrosive space rather than infinite nothingness where all contradiction dies. We might be able to cover this in a different CRT.

True.

The Source and the Overvoid were depicted as the white void outside the Source Wall. Even Grant Morrison agrees that the two are the same as he himself said in an interview. This was even suggested in the multiverse map and the stories of Williamson which depicts The Source and the Overvoid as the Light in contrast to the Great Darkness. It's not that controversial, The Source exists in all beings and all things but it's real state, form, whatever it is, is the white void (Overvoid) outside the Source Wall.

Anyway, let's cover this in another crt like you said. Let's focus on The Hands.

 

[Elizio33]

For now, two agrees with the op.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Darkest Knight's statements are rather hyperbolic and overconfident. As he believes he can kill the “Hands” and whatever energy lies in the Greater Omniverse(Source).

In reality, unless he keeps on getting an ample amount of energy it would take a while for any of his plans to set in motion.

 

[Elizio33]

Darkest Knight's statements are rather hyperbolic and overconfident. As he believes he can kill the “Hands” and whatever energy lies in the Greater Omniverse(Source).

In reality, unless he keeps on getting an ample amount of energy it would take a while for any of his plans to set in motion.

Yeah, while The Hands recognized the Darkest Knight as a deadly threat as one of them told to Diana "You saved us", the Darkest Knight needed all his Crisis Energy to kill The Hands. He told Wonder Woman that if she chose to fight him unnecessarily, The Hands would come and be more powerful than them.

That's why he is 2-C, likely Low 1-C rather than Low 1-C, he needs all of his Crisis Energy at his disposal to kill them