Elaine, Michael, Lucifer, and the Presence Possible 1-C upgrade.

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I agree with most of what the revision brought and I will go over some of the topics, I think needs to be worked on. Lucifer is a fan favorite so I will be going over him and his family first. Now I do agree that Lucifer and the Presence are nowhere near 1-A but I feel Low 1-C is also a tad bit too low. I suggest we rather remove possible 1-C from their profile because in actuality they seem to be fine with just 1-C.

Silver City:

To start off we already scale Vertigo Creation to 2-A and the Silver City to Low 1-C. Yahweh or the Presence made it with just his breath alongside all the residents in the Darkness before Creation. (Sandman Vol.2 #24)

We've come to the agreement that the Silver City is qualitatively superior to that of a 2-A structure and in this case the Presence “creation.” What we also know is that he can uneasily do this action and make a Low 1-C structure without issue. When the siege on was implemented it was the notion that Yahweh can easily undo all the actions done and save Creation as well as the City itself. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68) This is self-evident because the siege takes place outside the City in the place called “Armageddon Plain.” Elaine literally remade Hell and fix Heaven while learning Godhood.

Elaine Belloc:

Not to mention the entirety of Creation would see as an ant to Elaine. This shows she is qualitatively superior to 2-A Creation and as well as the City due to the fact she can create and destroy on the scale Yahweh could now that she is “God.” Simply by thinking too hard, she could destroy Creation.

She can just easily make and unmake Low 1-C structures and beings with just her will alone. (Lucifer Vol.1 #72). Obviously, there is already the fact that Vertigo Creation is far larger than the standard Low 2-C Universal model with a degree of infinity or two to achieve a Low 1-C. She can just make them at will and all she has to do is just will it to happen. Her very powers are an infinity greater than a Low 1-C structure. That's already around three levels of qualitative superiority over the standard Low 2-C Universe model.

We know that the Creation holds an infinite space-time continuum which is 2-A. Outside these worlds are realms such as afterlives which are corresponded with infinite dimensions as I mentioned in another post. Her superiority over the words gives her one qualitative superiority and her being above the realms gives her two qualitative superiority and the realms are already considered Low 1-C by that degree she is three or five transcendence over Creation which is warranted for 1-C. (Lucifer Vol.1 #21)

Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos:

When God made the world he started with the host and starting with the Host he began with Michael and Lucifer. He made them to be his intermediaries to enact Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

Michael was vested with the Demiurgic Power of God, the word of fire that builds and breaks. (Lucifer Vol.1 #11) With this power, he can accomplish things only God can do such as remaking every part of Existence. (Lucifer Vol.1 #53) This is important because he was remaking the Silver City and the Angels as well because Uriel was talking about all aspects of Creation including their own “substance.” God's name is written in every atom of Creation including the Silver City. (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) Every part of Creation is glued together by his name, atoms or substance is describing all parts. (Lucifer Vol.1 #56)

Michaels's power was described as a “spark that expands forever, an ocean of power with no shore.” (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) This means Michael bears limitless powers enough to sustain a Low 1-C structure. Even without trying he easily broke part of the City (Lucifer Vol.1 #44) suggesting he if intended he could destroy it because if God can, so can Michael. Bearing an the aspect of infinity is still infinity. (Lucifer Vol.1 #49)

The whole point of the City is for a home for the Host. The Host's purpose is for Michael and Lucifer to have a context for their action and to reflect on their actions. If they were ever needed it was because God intended that way. (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) Lucifer and Michael scale above the Host (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) and the City because even with those they were the best of his Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

They inherit his power as great as his own. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37) Being an aspect of an infinite totality they possess the power to do what he can do. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Lucifer's mere willpower shattered the Mansions of Silence. Which contains part of Heaven, infinite Creation, and is a place further and larger than Heaven. (Lucifer Vol.1 #36-37)

Lucifer broke a Low 1-C structure just by being there. Alongside his brother who is superior to the City and scale of the powers of the Presence. Superior to the Endless.

The Presence(Yahweh):

The fathers of all the angels and the Lord of Host. He is the God of Creation and the Covenant (Lucifer Vol.1 #42) and created the beginning.

• Yahweh is the manifest face that mankind has fashioned from their collective beliefs and dreams, which is why Yahweh said he was fashioned by external forces. God is eternal and formless as the boundless voidand acts through many aspects like The Voice or Yahweh.
  • The power of dreams and beliefs changes the world in a timeless way — from the very beginning to the end, so when humanity's collective beliefs and dreams gave a face to God (Yahweh), time history changed so that Yahweh was always the creator of the world.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Im not sure what exactly are the arguments for 1-C here are?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Im not sure what exactly are the arguments for 1-C here are?

It was mentioned. So reread if you didn't see it.

 

[Robo432343]

Silver City:

To start off we already scale Vertigo Creation to 2-A and the Silver City to Low 1-C. Yahweh or the Presence made it with just his breath alongside all the residents in the Darkness before Creation. (Sandman Vol.2 #24)

We've come to the agreement that the Silver City is qualitatively superior to that of a 2-A structure and in this case the Presence “creation.” What we also know is that he can uneasily do this action and make a Low 1-C structure without issue. When the siege on was implemented it was the notion that Yahweh can easily undo all the actions done and save Creation as well as the City itself. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68) This is self-evident because the siege takes place outside the City in the place called “Armageddon Plain.” Elaine literally remade Hell and fix Heaven while learning Godhood.

Yes. This is Low 1-C.

Elaine Belloc:

Not to mention the entirety of Creation would see as an ant to Elaine. This shows she is qualitatively superior to 2-A Creation and as well as the City due to the fact she can create and destroy on the scale Yahweh could now that she is “God.” Simply by thinking too hard, she could destroy Creation.

She can just easily make and unmake Low 1-C structures and beings with just her will alone. (Lucifer Vol.1 #72). Obviously, there is already the fact that Vertigo Creation is far larger than the standard Low 2-C Universal model with a degree of infinity or two to achieve a Low 1-C. She can just make them at will and all she has to do is just will it to happen. Her very powers are an infinity greater than a Low 1-C structure. That's already around three levels of qualitative superiority over the standard Low 2-C Universe model.

Elaine viewing a 5D structure (Silver City) as the size of an ant would make her 6D which is still Low 1-C.

We know that the Creation holds an infinite space-time continuum which is 2-A. Outside these worlds are realms such as afterlives which are corresponded with infinite dimensions as I mentioned in another post. Her superiority over the words gives her one qualitative superiority and her being above the realms gives her two qualitative superiority and the realms are already considered Low 1-C by that degree she is three or five transcendence over Creation which is warranted for 1-C. (Lucifer Vol.1 #21)

This would still be 6D and 3-5 layers above 6D which is still Low 1-C.

Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos:

When God made the world he started with the host and starting with the Host he began with Michael and Lucifer. He made them to be his intermediaries to enact Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

Michael was vested with the Demiurgic Power of God, the word of fire that builds and breaks. (Lucifer Vol.1 #11) With this power, he can accomplish things only God can do such as remaking every part of Existence. (Lucifer Vol.1 #53) This is important because he was remaking the Silver City and the Angels as well because Uriel was talking about all aspects of Creation including their own “substance.” God's name is written in every atom of Creation including the Silver City. (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) Every part of Creation is glued together by his name, atoms or substance is describing all parts. (Lucifer Vol.1 #56)

Michaels's power was described as a “spark that expands forever, an ocean of power with no shore.” (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) This means Michael bears limitless powers enough to sustain a Low 1-C structure. Even without trying he easily broke part of the City (Lucifer Vol.1 #44) suggesting he if intended he could destroy it because if God can, so can Michael. Bearing an the aspect of infinity is still infinity. (Lucifer Vol.1 #49)

The whole point of the City is for a home for the Host. The Host's purpose is for Michael and Lucifer to have a context for their action and to reflect on their actions. If they were ever needed it was because God intended that way. (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) Lucifer and Michael scale above the Host (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) and the City because even with those they were the best of his Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

They inherit his power as great as his own. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37) Being an aspect of an infinite totality they possess the power to do what he can do. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Lucifer's mere willpower shattered the Mansions of Silence. Which contains part of Heaven, infinite Creation, and is a place further and larger than Heaven. (Lucifer Vol.1 #36-37)

Lucifer broke a Low 1-C structure just by being there. Alongside his brother who is superior to the City and scale of the powers of the Presence. Superior to the Endless.

This would be 6D (Low 1-C).

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

This would still be 6D and 3-5 layers above 6D which is still Low 1-C.

This is corresponding to tiering based on qualitative infinite between each layer. It's not just a dimension up. Even then Silver City isn't 5D, that's more so the Dreaming that already is the birthplace of Imagination and even that should already be Low 1-C which starts from 5D to 6D. The City is higher than the Dreaming and Elaine transcends the City as a whole, well any Godhood that is. I've mentioned before that there is an infinite dimension in Lucfier's Creation but they don't have any R>F but due to some logical reasoning his Creation can scale to Low 1-C and he transcends that structure.

2 degrees of infinity over Universal model structures starting from Low 2-C is warranted for Low 1-C that's already 6D. Any more qualitative superiority such as 7D and up is warranted for 1-C and all the beings I listed are transcendent of the City. Elaine and Yahweh are easily there while Lucifer and Michael are just baseline for it.

 

[Robo432343]

This is corresponding to tiering based on qualitative infinite between each layer. It's not just a dimension up. Even then Silver City isn't 5D, that's more so the Dreaming that already is the birthplace of Imagination and even that should already be Low 1-C which starts from 5D to 6D. The City is higher than the Dreaming and Elaine transcends the City as a whole, well any Godhood that is.

This should be clarified in the OP. If you are saying the dreaming is 5D (Low 1-C), that would make heaven 6D, for being qualitatively superior. (Low 1-C). And then we would have the Mansion of Silence which would be qualitatively superior to that, making it 7D (1-C). Transcending the mansion of silence (viewing it as an ant, including all of creation) would make you 8D. (1-C). Then we would have the void which transcends everything i said, making it 9D. (1-C).

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

This should be clarified in the OP. If you are saying the dreaming is 5D (Low 1-C), that would make heaven 6D, for being qualitatively superior. (Low 1-C). And then we would have the Mansion of Silence which would be qualitatively superior to that, making it 7D (1-C). Transcending the mansion of silence (viewing it as an ant, including all of creation) would make you 8D. (1-C). Then we would have the void which transcends everything i said, making it 9D. (1-C).

Both Heaven and Dreaming start from 6D. I was just mentioning the Dreaming out of convenience. A single Universe 4D, the entire Creation 5D, the afterlives or realms 6D, etc... I was sure I mentioned it but yeah.

 

[Robo432343]

Both Heaven and Dreaming start from 6D. I was just mentioning the Dreaming out of convenience. A single Universe 4D, the entire Creation 5D, the afterlives or realms 6D, etc... I was sure I mentioned but yeah.

Ok then. put me in for agree

 

[Murayefeskamus]

Even if it's over 6d that doesn't make it 1c. Need precise information

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Even if it's over 6d that doesn't make it 1c. Need precise information

Each Universe has spatiotemporal dimensions. The entire Multiverse is comprised of this set infinite. So from the Universe whose scales are already Low 2-C and the first degree of infinite would be the Multiverse/Creation. Then Low 1-C for the City is qualitvely superior to Creation which is a second degree of infinity larger than Low 2-C. Then the beings who bear the power to create and destroy these structures without much issue scale them over the singular Universe model by a degree of three or five depending on the scaling context.

 

[Antvasima]

@Deagonx @Eficiente @Elizio33 @Firestorm808 @LuciferDC099 @PrinceofPein @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura

What do you think about this?

 

[Deagonx]

What would be different from how we currently treat them?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

What would be different from how we currently treat them?

They slightly scale higher. Low 1-C, possibly 1-C is something I find very low. It fits the Endless perfectly but not Yahweh or the Archangels.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I think the OP should be clarified and made better

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I think the OP should be clarified and made better

I clarified it with the others, not to mention during the Elaine Belloc section that's where the bulk of scaling comes from.

I'm actually wondering if you guys read the whole thing because this shouldn't be a question on where the OP should “clarify” better.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm actually wondering if you guys read the whole thing because this shouldn't be a question on where the OP should “clarify” better.

Its very hard to follow, you don't make your chain of logic very clear and don't clearly delineate where the changes are being made.

Which cosmological structures are we tiering differently, and why?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I clarified it with the others, not to mention during the Elaine Belloc section that's where the bulk of scaling comes from.

I'm actually wondering if you guys read the whole thing because this shouldn't be a question on where the OP should “clarify” better.

You refused to scale what is what, it is kind of disjointed, preferably put them in bullet point and in order of how it happened or how the events went.
Also able to create and destroy a low 1-C world and able to sustain a low 1-C world will not get you a higher tiering

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Its very hard to follow, you don't make your chain of logic very clear and don't clearly delineate where the changes are being made.

Which cosmological structures are we tiering differently, and why?

One Universe or “world” as the stories call it is a Low 2-C structure. Since each of the Universes has a time-space continuum equivalent to transcending a 3D space with a 4D temporal dimension.

The entire structure as Mike Carey puts it that the Creation is divided by universe, dimensions, and realms. Lucifer created an infinite Universe that can correlate to the first degree of infinity which makes his as well as Yahweh's structure 2-A.

In Yahweh, he also has the Silver City, unlike the conventional realm of Lucifer's creation. The City is qualitatively superior to the Low 2-C Universe model and transcends a 2-A structure. Yahweh did this by willing it to happen and thus creating the birthplace of will and contemplation. He himself is qualitatively superior to the City and is the Void itself which is 1-C.

Lucifer's Creation has an infinite Universe with its own space-time continuum which is 2-A. Then beyond the Universes are realms that are also infinite, each is spatiotemporal since his gates split through time and space for every world and realm in his Creation. He split infinity so we know there are infinite realms beneath the worlds. It's a little vague how big these realms are but due to holding dimensions that are infinite in quantity, it's safe to it's larger than the standard Low 2-C model. So it can be scaled to either 2-A or Low 1-C.

Everything in Creation including the afterlives are mere aspect of whatever God is. The Universe which implies “Totality” is simply an ant to Elaine. She refused to use Hell and make it obsolete so it would then be replaced by realms. If we scale these realms to be equivalent in size to Hell which could be infinite then she transcends the Low 1-C structure by three degrees which is 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

You refused to scale what is what, it is kind of disjointed, preferably put them in bullet point and in order of how it happened or how the events went.
Also able to create and destroy a low 1-C world and able to sustain a low 1-C world will not get you a higher tiering

From what im trying to understand

the scaling comes from the fact elaine sees the entire Low 1-C creation as the size of an ant. thats a start

 

[Robo432343]

Everything in Creation including the afterlives are mere aspect of whatever God is. The Universe which implies “Totality” is simply an ant to Elaine. She refused Hell so it would then be replaced by realms. If we scale these realms to be equivalent in size to Hell which could be infinite then she transcends the Low 1-C structure by three degrees which is 1-C.

No. This is 3 layers above baseline Low 1-C. this is where you are getting confused. You don't go from Low 1-C to 1-C like that

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

You refused to scale what is what, it is kind of disjointed, preferably put them in bullet point and in order of how it happened or how the events went.
Also able to create and destroy a low 1-C world and able to sustain a low 1-C world will not get you a higher tiering

That's not even the main reason. Maybe adding bullets point to conclude for each tier may have been needed but reading it also wasn't hard to follow.

I also did scale so you saying that would imply you either didn't read it fully or you couldn't follow it. Which doesn't mean I didn't scale it.

I'm not trying to sound rude but this response was a tad bit ignorant of what was said in the OP. I did scale it, if you couldn't follow it then read my response that goes into better detail.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

No. This is 3 layers above baseline Low 1-C. this is where you are getting confused. You don't go from Low 1-C to 1-C like that

Each degree of infinity puts whatever tiers it's impacting to a higher amount until we have total qualitative superiority to confirm the transcending of lower tiers. They “fully” and completely transcends a Low 1-C structure by virtue of qualitative superiority to suggest that its structure is either insignificant or infinitesimal by that infinite degree.

Also, three degrees is referring to three levels of infinite above Low 2-C. The first would follow as Low 2-C > Low 1-C > 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

Look man. The whole scaling comes from the fact that elaine is qualitatively superior to the universe including Heaven which is a Low 1-C structure yes? This would make Elaine 6D (Low 1-C). Lucifer, Michael etc would scale to it. Its as simple as that. The only way i see Elaine getting a proper 1-C rating is if you prove that the mansion of silence is qualitatively superior to 5D Heaven. If you can do that, you get 1-C elaine as well as 1-C lucifer, Michael

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Look man. The whole scaling comes from the fact that elaine is qualitatively superior to the universe including Heaven which is a Low 1-C structure yes? This would make Elaine 6D (Low 1-C). Lucifer, Michael etc would scale to it. Its as simple as that.

My argument for 1-C scaling is completely different to yours

Elaine transcending 6D coordinate space dimensionality would make her 7D. That's the qualitative part. From her level, she is three degrees of infinity higher than the Universal model(Low 2-C) being able to affect it in any way possible to the point it's insignificant to her which is the superior part. She is qualitatively superior to the City by transcending it and making it at will. She scales to Yahweh who scales to the Void which you claim is 9D. She has at least 7D which is needed for the quality to be considered 1-C as well as the superiority which I have mentioned several times.

 

[Deagonx]

One Universe or “world” as the stories call it is a Low 2-C structure. Since each of the Universes has a time-space continuum equivalent to transcending a 3D space with a 4D temporal dimension.

The entire structure as Mike Carey puts it that the Creation is divided by universe, dimensions, and realms. Lucifer created an infinite Universe that can correlate to the first degree of infinity which makes his as well as Yahweh's structure 2-A.

In Yahweh, he also has the Silver City, unlike the conventional realm of Lucifer's creation. The City is qualitatively superior to the Low 2-C Universe model and transcends a 2-A structure. Yahweh did this by willing it to happen and thus creating the birthplace of will and contemplation. He himself is qualitatively superior to the City and is the Void itself which is 1-C.

Lucifer's Creation has an infinite Universe with its own space-time continuum which is 2-A. Then beyond the Universes are realms that are also infinite, each is spatiotemporal since his gates split through time and space for every world and realm in his Creation. He split infinity so we know there are infinite realms beneath the worlds. It's a little vague how big these realms are but due to holding dimensions that are infinite in quantity, it's safe to it's larger than the standard Low 2-C model. So it can be scaled to either 2-A or Low 1-C.

Everything in Creation including the afterlives are mere aspect of whatever God is. The Universe which implies “Totality” is simply an ant to Elaine. She refused to use Hell and make it obsolete so it would then be replaced by realms. If we scale these realms to be equivalent in size to Hell which could be infinite then she transcends the Low 1-C structure by three degrees which is 1-C.

Sorry, but this isn't much clearer to me.

I understand that you are frustrated and feel like people aren't reading what you say, but you need to understand that you've made a dozen CRTs and each one, from my perspective, has been very difficult to understand. You post a lot of scans and write a lot of words, but it is always hard for me to understand what you want to change which is why I asked to you specify.

Here, in this explanation you gave me, I am still not sure what you want to change. You say one universe is a L2-C structure. Did we already treat it that way? If we do already treat it as a L2-C structure, then it's not helpful to repeat the justification to me. Just say "We currently treat the universe as L2-C" so I know what we already accept, and then give explanation as to what you want to change.

For instance, you could say "We currently treat a universe as L2-C because of [x], but due to [y] I think it should be L2-A."

So I apologize that I do not understand what you want to change, but I need you to reiterate your claims in that format, don't remind me of stuff we already accept, focus on what you want to change and what the justification is for it.

 

[Robo432343]

Elaine transcending 6D coordinate space dimensionality would make her 7D. That's the qualitative part. From her level, she is three degrees of infinity higher than the Universal model(Low 2-C) being able to affect it in any way possible to the point it's insignificant to her which is the superior part. She is qualitatively superior to the City by transcending it and making it at will. She scales to Yahweh who scenes to the Void which you claim is 9D. She has at least 7D which is needed for the quality to be considered 1-C as well as the superiority which I have mentioned several times.

Ah yes, i forgot Elaine would scale to the void. However, you can disregard my message i sent to you earlier about the void being 9D and all. lets go back a little. You need to prove that the mansion of silence is qualitatively superior to 5D heaven. All we know is that it is stated to be beyond heaven which isn't enough to grant a new tier. If you can prove that mansion of silence>5D heaven, then the mansion of silence would be 6D and elaine transcending that would be 7D.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

So I apologize that I do not understand what you want to change, but I need you to reiterate your claims in that format, don't remind me of stuff we already accept, focus on what you want to change and what the justification is for it.

What I said has nothing to do with a single Universe in Vertigo or more specifically the Sandman/Lucifer series to be accepted as Low 2-C. It's just that I scale it to the Universal model due to the fact its property is equal to ours maybe slightly bigger but nothing to suggest it was smaller.

The scaling would still be coherent because the City transcends that of Creation which is accepted to be 2-A. Also supported by the fact it's around one to two degrees of infinity above the Universal model(Low 2-C) so that we have the superior part. The rest is self-explanatory.

Everyone wants their thread to change tiers. I always live by the rules unless the majority agrees then I'm not trying to force a change in the tier. I simply think it's necessary for what we know. Is that easier to understand?

 

[Deagonx]

What I said has nothing to do with a single Universe in Vertigo

It was just an example.

Is that easier to understand?

No. Because I do not know what you want to change in the scaling. I asked you to specify that, but you did not do so. Please tell me what you want to change in the scaling chain in this format:

"We currently treat a universe as L2-C because of [x], but due to [y] I think it should be L2-A."

It doesn't have to be a universe, we can do it like this:

"We currently treat a [structure] as [tier] because of [x], but due to [y] I think it should be [higher tier]"

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Ah yes, i forgot Elaine would scale to the void. However, you can disregard my message i sent to you earlier about the void being 9D and all. lets go back a little. You need to prove that the mansion of silence is qualitatively superior to 5D heaven. All we know is that it is stated to be beyond heaven which isn't enough to grant a new tier. If you can prove that mansion of silence>5D heaven, then the mansion of silence would be 6D and elaine transcending that would be 7D.

I never said that the Mansions are qualitatively superior. I just said it was bigger than Heaven and while Heaven can overlook one Creation, the Mansion can hold infinite rejected Creation as well as the others things.

I never mentioned it transcends the City and as I mention the City starts at 6D, not 5D. I only said destroying the Mansions cakes Lucifer above Low 1-C structure and logically that's more impressive than the creation or destruction of the City.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

It was just an example.


No. Because I do not know what you want to change in the scaling. I asked you to specify that, but you did not do so. Please tell me what you want to change in the scaling chain in this format:

We don't have an actual rating for a single Universe in Vertigo. We instead largely put it at 2-A as a whole to represent the Multiverse. So I suggest we use the Universal Model which contains a space-time conntuium for each Universe to be Low 2-C due to the fact each Universe has its own space-time continuum and is infinitely comparably larger than the 3-D coordinate space.

So we can scale a Universe to Low 2-C. There is an infinite amount in Lucifer's Creation and because of that, we scale his Multiverse excluding the realms to be 2-A. Including the realms beneath the worlds(Universes) the level of dimensionality increases from the 4D for a single Universe and 5D for the Multiverse to 6D which is the qualitative aspect. This goes for the City which we already accepted as Low 1-C due to transcending a 2-A Multiverse equivalent to about 5D cardinal dimensionality in according to space and time.

The rest is self-explanatory with my reasoning being this thread.

 

[Deagonx]

We don't have an actual rating for a single Universe in Vertigo. We instead largely put it at 2-A as a whole to represent the Multiverse. So I suggest we use the Universal Model which contains a space-time conntuium for each Universe to be Low 2-C due to the fact each Universe has its own space-time continuum and is infinitely comparably larger than the 3-dimensionality.

So we can scale a Universe to a Low 2-C. There is an infinite amount in Lucifer's Creation and because of that, we scale his Multiverse excluding the realms to be 2-A.

I thought you said the multiverse was already 2-A? So this isn't a change, right?

Including the realms beneath the worlds(Universes) the level of dimensionality increases from the 4D for a single Universe and 5D for the Multiverse to 6D which is the qualitative aspect. This goes for the City which we already accepted as Low 1-C due to trading a 2-A Multiverse equivalent to about 5D cardinal dimensionality in according to space and time.

I don't follow. So do we currently treat the multiverse as 5-D but you want to make it 6-D? What is the reasoning for that?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I thought you said the multiverse was already 2-A? So this isn't a change, right?

No changes to the Multiverse because it was already accepted that it is a 2-A structure in Vertigo lore.

I don't follow. So do we currently treat the multiverse as 5-D but you want to make it 6-D? What is the reasoning for that?

This is what I'm trying to implement to explain this thread better. I would scale it to Low 2-C which needs dimensional coordinate space above 3D. So each Universe is 4D and the Multiverse 5D and anything beyond the Multiverse is 6D. For Yahweh that's the City and the Mansions. For Lucifer the realms in his Creation.

 

[Deagonx]

No changes to the Mulltoverse because it was already accepted that it is a 2-A structure in Vertigo lore.

Ok. So what is changing?

This is what I'm trying to implement to explain this thread better. I would scale it to Low 2-C which needs dimensional coordinate space above the 3D. So each Universe is 4D and the Multiverse 5D and anything beyond the Multiverse is 6D. For Yahweh that's the City and the Mansion. For Lucifer the realms in his Creation.

We already treat the Silver City as 6-D, which is why they have a Low 1-C tier. So what is the change you want to make?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Ok. So what is changing?

A single Universe being Low 2-C.

We already treat the Silver City as 6-D, which is why they have a Low 1-C tier. So what is the change you want to make?

We should treat it as such other than it just transcending a 2-A structure. Not to mention of the previous scale I mentioned. Due to it being Low 1-C, it needs to be at least 5D - 6D coordinate space but it being 6D makes the most sense.

 

[Deagonx]

A single Universe being Low 2-C.

Okay, so instead of a single universe being Low 2-C, you want them to be what? and why?

We should treat it as such other than it just tracking a 2-A structure.

What does this mean?

Due to it being Low 1-C, it needs to be at least 5D - 6D but it being 6D makes the most sense.

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Goofy, I'm sorry, but I am on the verge of jumping ship on this thread. I can't understand your argument at all. You need to speak more clearly, I keep asking you for clarifications and end up even more confused after I read them. You need to be exceedingly specific, make sure every aspect of what you are attemping to communicate is made clear.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Okay, so instead of a single universe being Low 2-C, you want them to be what? and why?

No, I believe a single Universe should be Low 2-C.

So I suggest we use the Universal Model which contains a space-time conntuium for each Universe to be Low 2-C due to the fact each Universe has its own space-time continuum and is infinitely comparably larger than the 3-D coordinate space.

What does this mean?

I don't know what you're trying to say.

There was a typo with “tracking” which was meant to say “transcending.”

Goofy, I'm sorry, but I am on the verge of jumping ship on this thread. I can't understand your argument at all. You need to speak more clearly, I keep asking you for clarifications and end up even more confused after I read them.

I believe I was being clear. A single Universe should be Low 2-C. The Multiverse can stay 2-A. Anything above the 2-A structure would be Low 1-C as we already have it right now. I don't see how that's hard to understand.

 

[Deagonx]

No, I believe a single Universe should be Low 2-C.

What are single universes currently treated as in our scaling?

A single Universe should be Low 2-C. The Multiverse can stay 2-A. Anything above the 2-A structure would be Low 1-C as we already have it right now. I don't see how that's hard to understand.

Then what are you attempting to change?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Me reading Deagon lose it little by little and sipping tea

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

What are single universes currently treated as in our scaling?

For Vertigo, there isn't one. We just jump to the Multiverse as a whole being 2-A. If we count the scaling of DC Universe then:

Tiering: Universal feats are between 3-A and High 3-A, unless the feat specifies an entire space-time continuum, the total destruction of a universe or something else (Low 2-C)

Then what are you attempting to change?

I'm not advocating for changes other than the tiers and I'm just hoping we could add a tier for a single Universe in Vertigo that meets the standard for how we tier universal feats as I mentioned above.

 

[Deagonx]

For Vertigo, there isn't one. We just jump to the Multiverse as a whole being 2-A. If we count the scaling of DC Universe then:

Okay, so the only change you want to make with regard to a universe is to notate that we treat a universe as L2-C? Sure.

I'm not advocating for changes other than the tiers

Goofy, I'm gonna scream. What tiers do you want to change and why?