Halo General Discussion Thread

[James11221]

Actually forerunner weapons damage with combinations of heat and force, rather than just heat

The Suppressor is a portable rapid-fire infantry weapon that ejects high-velocity target-seeking Hardlight shards as its primary projectiles. These shards do damage through a mix of kinetic and thermal effects and appear to be intended to use against Flood biomass.

(Halo, Spartan Field Manual, p.191)

These weapons damaged with a combination of heat and force, steralizing all matter they come into contact with. Impossibly Sharp, the Lightblade also have pratically applications for human industry...

(Halo Spartan Field Manual, p.185)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually forerunner weapons damage with combinations of heat and force, rather than just heat

The Suppressor is a portable rapid-fire infantry weapon that ejects high-velocity target-seeking Hardlight shards as its primary projectiles. These shards do damage through a mix of kinetic and thermal effects and appear to be intended to use against Flood biomass.

(Halo, Spartan Field Manual, p.191)

These weapons damaged with a combination of heat and force, steralizing all matter they come into contact with. Impossibly Sharp, the Lightblade also have pratically applications for human industry...

(Halo Spartan Field Manual, p.185)

No one said they don't have force, also it depends which weapons you are talking about. It's just there is no proof most of them such as Incineration Cannon, Binary Rifle, or Scattershot generate as many Joules of overpressure as they do joules of thermal energy. Demonstratively, Suppressor only has evidence it's generating like 9-C amounts of overpressure; same as regular bullets. If you take away the "Anti-matter particles that vaporize/ionize targets" the majority of what's left (The 0.5 * mass * velocity^2 format) is just the KE velocity of regular bullets for most of them.

 

[James11221]

No one said they don't have force, also it depends which weapons you are talking about. It's just there is no proof most of them such as Incineration Cannon, Binary Rifle, or Scattershot generate as many Joules of overpressure as they do joules of thermal energy. Demonstratively, Suppressor only has evidence it's generating like 9-C amounts of overpressure; same as regular bullets. If you take away the "Anti-matter particles that vaporize/ionize targets" the majority of what's left (The 0.5 * mass * velocity^2 format) is just the KE velocity of regular bullets for most of them.

I meant they should have equal kinetic energy in them for example ,
The Incineration Cannon, for instance, is noted to be capable of toppling towers as well as incinerating targets:

"Though the Flood has receded, the Created who now control the Prometheans are still in need of weapons that can topple towers, bring down armored beasts of war, and incinerate enemy champions beyond any possibility of recovery."

"One of the first Incineration Cannons ever made, the River’s core had been built and refined over decades by an unknown Promethean who served with distinction and honor in dozens of containment operations. The cannon's harmonious energies burned uncounted fetid burrows to ash and toppled grand spore towers dedicated to the parasite. In the dead hands of a Knight the River of Light’s true potential could never be unlocked, but the artifact’s heart knows its name and purpose, and hungers to be remembered once more by warriors whose hearts pump with life and limbs move with purpose and intent."

Moreover, by its nature it's kinetic-based, given that they're antimatter particles that convert matter into pure energy that in turn causes a huge explosion:

"An unwelcome sight to any enemy of the Ecumene, the incineration cannon is a five-barreled, shoulder-mounted munitions launcher that fires a dense concentration Of explosive antiparticles in a tightly helixed stream, generating a volatile detonation on impact."
Also suppressors definitely are more powerful than regular bullets

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I meant they should have equal kinetic energy in them for example ,
The Incineration Cannon, for instance, is noted to be capable of toppling towers as well as incinerating targets:

"Though the Flood has receded, the Created who now control the Prometheans are still in need of weapons that can topple towers, bring down armored beasts of war, and incinerate enemy champions beyond any possibility of recovery."

"One of the first Incineration Cannons ever made, the River’s core had been built and refined over decades by an unknown Promethean who served with distinction and honor in dozens of containment operations. The cannon's harmonious energies burned uncounted fetid burrows to ash and toppled grand spore towers dedicated to the parasite. In the dead hands of a Knight the River of Light’s true potential could never be unlocked, but the artifact’s heart knows its name and purpose, and hungers to be remembered once more by warriors whose hearts pump with life and limbs move with purpose and intent."

Moreover, by its nature it's kinetic-based, given that they're antimatter particles that convert matter into pure energy that in turn causes a huge explosion:

"An unwelcome sight to any enemy of the Ecumene, the incineration cannon is a five-barreled, shoulder-mounted munitions launcher that fires a dense concentration Of explosive antiparticles in a tightly helixed stream, generating a volatile detonation on impact."
Also suppressors definitely are more powerful than regular bullets

None of that proves anything. It's all repeats of stuff we already know, that Incineration Cannons in groups bring down "Spore Towers" or "Graveminds." But that is mostly just vaporization, and vaporization is done because the energy is mostly heat. Also, we only know that there are some anti-matter particles in them, we don't know how much of it is antimatter. Also, antimatter doesn't actually generate much overpressure, it's mainly designed to existence erase matter. In fact, the Burn to ashes is within the realm of proving my point.

Thermal energy is the KE of particles, but it doesn't mean a sizable percentage is overpressure. Whenever a human urinates or defecates, they produce well over 600 Kilojoules of thermal energy (Which there's more Joules in that than how much overpressure various hand grenades generate upon exploding), but that doesn't mean it's generating anywhere near as much overpressure. Not even if someone has "Explosive diarrhea" has evidence or consistency of them withstanding a 9-B hand grenade. If Incineration Cannon was truly overpressure, the explosion would be much larger than what we demonstratively see anywhere for that matter. And likewise, the fact that Forerunner/Promethean weapons are meant to be used on large fleshy targets and tend to do much less damage than mechanical targets proves this; otherwise they'd be one shotting and nuking much larger structures like even the Medium Fusion nukes (Which are 15 Kilotons) basically one-shotted the equivalent of several thousand Wraiths and dozens of Scarabs.

The average shot of Suppressors still does comparable damage to the average Assault Rifle rounds; except for when fired on foes who are already dead and the particles eventually incinerate the body. In terms of thermal energy yield, yes there is much more than regular bullets. But in terms of the mass, velocity, firing range comparisons, the ballistics of suppressors are demonstratively within realms of Covenant Carbines and UNSC MA Assault Rifle series...

 

[James11221]

otherwise they'd be one shotting and nuking much larger structures like even the Medium Fusion nukes (Which are 15 Kilotons) basically one-shotted the equivalent of several thousand Wraiths and dozens of Scarabs.

Ap ≠ Dc

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ap ≠ Dc

Not the point, the difference is a lot of other verses have things like magic or Ki Control to control energy so that larger scale AP levels to be harness with much smaller AoE. Halo does not, in fact, the mere existence of MFDD proves my point. If Incineration Cannon truly had overpressure to match the thermal energy output, it would have the blast radius to match. Case and point.

Edit: In general, the classic "Ap ≠ Dc" is a good argument when talking Ki Control, Magic users, or even just characters who are highly skilled melee attack fighters. But not for firearms and manmade explosives (Especially if the lack supernatural properties)