HST Showdown - (Round 6 - Villainous Façades)

[LordGinSama]

no, you prove that Haki can get through a spiritual weapon with no form that powernulls and evolves to adapt to block attacks.

I think he's talking about the fear manipulation / Paralysis Inducement. There isn't really anything for Yata Mirror to null, plus it's an omnidirectional blast.

 

[Godernet]

I think he's talking about the fear manipulation / Paralysis Inducement. There isn't really anything for Yata Mirror to null, plus it's an omnidirectional blast.

how would the fear manipulation/paralysis hit if the Haki cant hit him?

Also as mentioned before Itachi has resistance to fear manipulation and paralysis inducement.

 

[Kachon123]

Also as mentioned before Itachi has resistance to fear manipulation and paralysis inducement.

Haki has resistance negation even disregarding the fact that Shanks' Hao is layered.

 

[Eminiteable]

Also as mentioned before Itachi has resistance to fear manipulation and paralysis inducement even in Base.

Aramaki himself was unfazed by Yamato's Hao infused attacks, the same hao which scales above those lower than it which can cause fear manip etc. Despite that Shanks' hao blast left Aramaki like that.

 

[LordGinSama]

how would the fear manipulation/paralysis hit if the Haki cant hit him?

Also as mentioned before Itachi has resistance to fear manipulation and paralysis inducement.

I'm reading his profile right now and I'm not seeing resistance to Paralysis Inducement.

 

[Godernet]

Haki has resistance negation even disregarding the fact that Shanks' Hao is layered.

doesn't get him past the powernull.

 

[Kachon123]

doesn't get him past the powernull.

it's an omnidirectional blast.

 

[Godernet]

Aramaki himself was unfazed by Yamato's Hao infused attacks, the same hao which scales above those lower than it which can cause fear manip etc. Despite that Shanks' hao blast left Aramaki like that.

Itachi has a similar chain for fear manipulation

Kakashi's fear aura < Orochimarus ~ Obito's < Itachi

 

[Kidkinsey]

Even if shanks sees into the future he'd just see himself laid out with his mind broken. The FS won't show him what goes in the mental realm

Idk didn't read the full 2 pages but itachi can avoid being sensed by kabuto a top tier sage mode user so are we sure shanks can sense itachi perfectly? The sharingans prediction also isn't getting negged its muscle based

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Genjutsu has feats of working on souls since it can work on Edo tenseis which are essentially just souls attached to a paper body.

yeah the issue is those souls can easily be tampered with, Gin has soul manipulation resistence

 

[Godernet]

Haki has resistance negation even disregarding the fact that Shanks' Hao is layered.

Slayer also clarified it is omnidirectional and it is in the profile

 

[Kachon123]

Kakashi's fear aura < Orochimarus ~ Obito's < Itachi

Shanks' fear manip > Yamato's fear manip > Dressrosa Luffy's fear manip > Zoro's fear aura

 

[Godernet]

yeah the issue is those souls can easily be tampered with, Gin has soul manipulation resistence

to resist tsukuyomi he would need mental resistances tampering with your soul(chakra in Nards case) doesn't even let Nard characters break tsukuyomi or Koto

 

[Godernet]

Shanks' fear manip > Yamato's fear manip > Dressrosa Luffy's fear manip > Zoro's fear aura

power null via omnidirectional yata still.

and these are also a younger Itachi's Base resistances. not even with the sharingan and MS which further amp mental resistances.

 

[Kachon123]

power null via yata still.

Proof that Yata can overpower Hao's fear manipulation?

 

[Godernet]

Proof that Yata can overpower fear manipulation?

it blocks the Hao Haki which is what's needed for the fear manipulation to even work

also even then MS Itachi just has higher resistances as outlined above.

 

[LordGinSama]

Itachi has a similar chain for fear manipulation

Kakashi's fear aura < Orochimarus ~ Obito's < Itachi

Shanks' fear manip > Yamato's fear manip > Dressrosa Luffy's fear manip > Zoro's fear aura

Which one is bigger.

 

[Godernet]

Which one is bigger.

plus sharingan and MS additional resistances

so Itachis(5) vs Shanks(4)

 

[Kachon123]

it blocks the Hao Haki which is what's needed for the fear manipulation to even work

Based on?

 

[Godernet]

Based on?

so you're saying the fear inducement would hit even if the conqurors haki can't?

even if We did humor that it blocks ninjutsu and spiritual attacks too

 

[Kachon123]

so Itachis(5) vs Shanks(4)

Oh it extends further than that. I didn't include some stuff for the sake of space.

Shanks > Yamato Fear Manipulation > Late WCI Luffy Fear Manipulation ~ Katakuri Fear Manipulation > Cracker Fear Aura > Dressrosa Luffy Fear Manipulation > Zoro Fear Aura

 

[Godernet]

Oh it extends further than that. I didn't include some stuff for the sake of space.

Shanks > Yamato Fear Manipulation > Late WCI Luffy Fear Manipulation ~ Katakuri Fear Manipulation > Cracker Fear Aura > Dressrosa Luffy Fear Manipulation > Zoro Fear Aura

I was a bit lazy so I didn't either. Did you know that each tomoe of the sharingan adds a layer to their mental manipulation?

you might be able to argue he has more than those layers tbh but thats a different story.

 

[Kachon123]

I was a bit lazy so I didn't either. Did you know that each tomoe of the sharingan adds a layer to their mental manipulation?

you might be able to argue he has double those layers tbh but thats a different story.

Lay it out

 

[Godernet]

Lay it out

they're not my arguments so im not going to go into it rn

 

[Kachon123]

 

[Majinere566]

Shanks frb

 

[Kachon123]

even if We did humor that it blocks ninjutsu and spiritual attacks too

Are those attack willpower-based?

Because Hao's fear manipulation is based on dominating the opponent's will with your own.

 

[Godernet]

Are those attack willpower-based?

ninjutsu is physical and mental energy so it is partially. yata also manipulates its properties to match those of the attack.

Because Hao's fear manipulation is based on dominating the opponent's will with your own.

but if the Hao can't hit the opponent how would the effects of it hit?

crossed it out for a reason.

 

[Kachon123]

ninjutsu is physical and mental energy so it is partially.

I don't see the correlation.

but if the Hao can't hit the opponent how would the effects of it hit?

You're yet to tell be why how Yata would null it? The burst is a manifestation of their willpower. It's not spiritual or physical energy that can just be numbed.

You would need some sort of Social Influencing to negate something like this.

 

[speedster352]

Shanks can read minds.

That won’t work with the clook I think

 

[speedster352]

Isn’t their any Gin arguments?

 

[Godernet]

I don't see the correlation.

will and the mind is a power heavily incorporated in ninjutsu. its power can even be affected via willpower and mental resolve the same way Haki does.

You're yet to tell be why how Yata would null it? The burst is a manifestation of their willpower. It's not spiritual or physical energy that can just be numbed.

haki is a manifestation of willpower into an energy. similar to chakra. so Totsuka would block it since it blocks all things spiritual and physical. unless you're saying Haki isn't energy.

You would need some sort of Social Influencing to negate something like this.

proof?

 

[Kachon123]

That won’t work with the clook I think

Cloak*

And it only blocks out Spirit Energy. Shanks would still be able to hear Gin's Voice (AKA his thoughts)

For some reason people forget that Kenbun literally allows the user to read the target's mind. This is not to be confused with intent sensing. Kenbun has both. It's able to both sense the intent of an attack and read the minds of people.

 

[Kachon123]

manifestation of willpower into an energy. similar to chakra

Based on?

proof?

I don't understand what proof I need to bring.

You would need to completely snuff out their strength of will to stop Hao, which only an ability like Social Influencing does.

 

[speedster352]

Cloak*

And it only blocks out Spirit Energy. Shanks would still be able to hear Gin's Voice (AKA his thoughts)

For some reason people forget that Kenbun literally allows the user to read the target's mind. This is not to be confused with intent sensing. Kenbun has both. It's able to both sense the intent of an attack and read the minds of people.

Gin is hard to read even by Ichigo and his abilty to feel his opponent inner voice. He says that it’s blank. Also the mind and soul is intertwined in bleach so the clook is blocking out the kenbun sensing with its layered invisibility and resistance to ESP.

 

[Kachon123]

Also the mind and soul is intertwined in bleach

Is Spirit Energy in Bleach the same as his thoughts?

if so, I'd like a scan.

 

[Godernet]

Based on?

wdym based on, thats a general description of both energy sources.

they're both related to Life force and mental energies.

I don't understand what proof I need to bring.

proof that Haki isn't an energy based on Life Force/Mental Energy that would be negged by Yata.

You would need to completely snuff out their strength of will to stop Hao, which only an ability like Social Influencing does.

the funny thing is that even if that was the case Itachi can and has done this via genjutsu.

• Social Influencing (In his fight against Nemui during the Chūnin Exams, he was capable of easily and completely reading Nemui's personality. He was able to understand his motivations and fears with very minimal contact and information. He then used that understanding to devise a plan meant to manipulate Nemui into gradually opening his eyes and falling prey to Itachi's Genjutsu, which he then tailored specifically to break Nemui's will and make him give up on being a Shinobi.[59][60][61][62][63][64][65][66] He was able to completely read Yashiro, and break his will, making him succumb to an extremely deep fear of Itachi before destroying his mind with Tsukuyomi[67][68])

And with Itachi's better mental manipulation it would be very possible.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

Voting for Shanks FRA.

Simply because.

•Shanks precognition can see the future, thus he can evade or get out of the way of attacks effectively and efficiently in the last second or before. Shanks would be like ultra instincts goky here. Even tho they're same speed i believe shanks would have the edge due to his better precognition with many layers.

• Shanks Hao blast. Stopping others from using their precognition senses etc. Shanks would be more so like mastered ultra instincts goku at this point.

• Shanks can get huge amps the longer the fight goes on from his reactive power coming from haki blooming to the point he can then most likely 1 or 2 shot dependingon how long the fight goes on for. (Speed, dura, ap, and haki are affected by haki blooming.)

• His stamina should be = or greater than the admirals, he can outlast both. He can fight for 10 days or more.

• he has layers or dura negs. TSukablade won't be able to seal if it can't touch shanks with his hao emmision which can if wanted to repeatedly emit/expand a small aoe barrier shockwave of sorts with every clash.

• Rivals the world's strongest swordsman in skill.

• observation haki has its resistance to genjutsu gg.

That's all i got right now.

 

[speedster352]

Is Spirit Energy in Bleach the same as his thoughts?

if so, I'd like a scan.

Look at the verse page it explains that minds and souls are intertwined in bleach since the clook masks his soul his mind as well will be masked so it can’t be read. I know ichigo doesn’t have telepath but he could feel his opponents inner thoughts and he literally said that Gin is blank implying that you can really tell his thoughts since his actions are done randomly or without reason.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

to resist tsukuyomi he would need mental resistances tampering with your soul(chakra in Nards case) doesn't even let Nard characters break tsukuyomi or Koto

nah, it's more like tsukoyomi needs to be able to manipulate Gin's soul in the first place in order to do it. Gin doesn't need to resist Tsukoyomi, the Tsukuyomi needs to be able to manipulate Gin's soul. That's the problem here