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HST Showdown - (Round 4 - Tainted Dreams)

Simple he understands how kamui works and counters it thanks to his intelligence just like konan, Minato, itachi(sort of) kakashi and madara. And he just keeps attacking or keeps Holman in his bankai since kamui has a time limit of 5 minutes.
Konan had been watching and secretly studying obito for years, minato had a space time jutsu that naturally made countering kamui much easier, if your refering to amateratsu for itachi obito wasent expecting sasuke to have had amateratsu implanted in him by itachi so it was a massive off guard situation.
 
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I've put more and more thought into this match up and have changed my mind, I'm switching my vote to Kuzan. I see him activating his wincons more often compared to Obito and Tosen while having more accessible counters towards the wincons of both Obito and Tosen through his low temperatures and Logia physiology.

It sucks voting against a Bleach character but I won't let my biases cloud what logically makes the most sense to me.
 
It definitely isn't Grace.

The votes currently are 11-0-13, we need one more vote for Kuzan for Grace to be enacted.
 
I've put more and more thought into this match up and have changed my mind, I'm switching my vote to Kuzan. I see him activating his wincons more often compared to Obito and Tosen while having more accessible counters towards the wincons of both Obito and Tosen through his low temperatures and Logia physiology.

It sucks voting against a Bleach character but I won't let my biases cloud what logically makes the most sense to me.
Your acting as if kamui and genjutsu doesn’t neg Kuzan. Also don’t Naruto Character have resistance to ice manipulation through scaling?
 
Rinnegan is useful here does he have the jincuriki? Because edo character wouldn’t be affected by ice and cold temperatures.
 
Speed for the love of God quit arguing for verses you know nothing about. Inb4 the "whatever just get the supporters because I can't argue myself."
 
Remember how Minato figured out how to counter Obito’s intangibility by baiting his attack? Well Kuzan can do that by literally seeing when he’ll be unintangible with Kenbun and making the air cold enough for Obito to instantly freeze when he’s touchable again.
What about substitution jutsu or izangni? Or just using fire style and rinnegan abilties to counter the ice. If the edo jins are use that’s a lot more eyes and help for obito. Of course the biju can be used but the jins can help also one of them have magma armour so ice won’t work.
 
What about substitution jutsu
Aokiji’s range is over 50 kilometers lmao.
Izanagi requires the user to be able to think, which won’t happen when his brain completely frozen.
Or just using fire style
Not going to work due to Aokiji’s ice being at the very least comparable to the ice on the Ice Continent, which were completely unaffected by flamethrowers.
rinnegan abilties
For example?
edo jins are use that’s a lot more eyes and help for obito
They get flash frozen alongside Tosen.
Of course the biju can be used
And do what? It’s just adding to the number of flash freeze victims.
 
Aokiji’s range is over 50 kilometers lmao.

Izanagi requires the user to be able to think, which won’t happen when his brain completely frozen.

Not going to work due to Aokiji’s ice being at the very least comparable to the ice on the Ice Continent, which were completely unaffected by flamethrowers.

For example?

They get flash frozen alongside Tosen.

And do what? It’s just adding to the number of flash freeze victims.
I don’t think ice will phase the jinchuriki since they are edo the other edo we’re not affected by edo haku ice. Also one of them have magma armour. Almighty push, universal pull, soul rip. Chibaku tensei gg. How is cold air going to work of edo? Also yagura could reflected his attacks. Also genjutsu is still a thing.
 
I don’t think ice will phase the jinchuriki since they are edo the other edo we’re not affected by edo haku ice.
Haki ice ≠ Kuzan ice
Also one of them have magma armour.
Magma is shit compared to Aokiji’s ice, which can counter heat that is vastly superior to 28000° C.
Almighty push, universal pull
Unfortunately gets countered by logia intangibility like how Sabo did to Issho’s gravity manipulation.
Haki negated soul manipulation via Big Mom’s fruit and Kuzan’s is layered 7 times.
Chibaku tensei gg
Same thing as Universal Pull and Almighty Push. Kuzan can also just freeze the rocks and shatter them to nothing.
Also yagura could reflected his attacks
How does it work?
Also genjutsu is still a thing.
Sleep Genjutsu are countered by Kenbun waking up the user (Sanji and Luffy, Zoro and Kaku, etc.)

Illusion Genjutsu are countered by Kenbun allowing the users to hear the true voice ofnthe things around them and also having been stated to protect the users from “tricks of the mind“ which would include illusions.

Mind Control Genjutsu are countered by Kuzan’s willpower, as in One Picee, strong willpower overpowers Mind Control, and since willpower is directly correlated to Haki, his resistance to Mind Control is also layered 7 times.
 
Haki ice ≠ Kuzan ice

Magma is shit compared to Aokiji’s ice, which can counter heat that is vastly superior to 28000° C.

Unfortunately gets countered by logia intangibility like how Sabo did to Issho’s gravity manipulation.

Haki negated soul manipulation via Big Mom’s fruit and Kuzan’s is layered 7 times.

Same thing as Universal Pull and Almighty Push. Kuzan can also just freeze the rocks and shatter them to nothing.

How does it work?

Sleep Genjutsu are countered by Kenbun waking up the user (Sanji and Luffy, Zoro and Kaku, etc.)

Illusion Genjutsu are countered by Kenbun allowing the users to hear the true voice ofnthe things around them and also having been stated to protect the users from “tricks of the mind“ which would include illusions.

Mind Control Genjutsu are countered by Kuzan’s willpower, as in One Picee, strong willpower overpowers Mind Control, and since willpower is directly correlated to Haki, his resistance to Mind Control is also layered 7 times.
Genjutsu is layered and does way more than just that it’s a way to incap akainu and he gets bfr. Roshi magma burned naruto in Kcm 1 who was unaffected by amerterasu and the heat of lightning in the his weakest chakra clock. So Roshi magma is way above that heat. Also the rocks are not a problem in case of chibaku tensei. It’s the gravity core. Yeah but the jinchuriki should be able to bust out with their chakra clock and is there proof he can freeze energy? Also this doesn’t counter tosen who can just stay out of range and spam homing kido that EE from a safe distance. You don’t scale haki to others kuzan hasn’t fought big mom so he doesn’t get resistance to soul manipulation.
 
Magma is shit compared to Aokiji’s ice, which can counter heat that is vastly superior to 28000° C.
Its not normal magma but I don't disagree with the point
How does it work?
Yagura can create a mirror that that than creates an exact copy of the opponents strength and with the same abilities as them. We don't really know how long it lasts tho

I wont comment on the rest cause I'm not too familiar on one pieces layers/resistances and such
 
Genjutsu is layered and does way more than just that it’s a way to incap akainu and he gets bfr.
First of all, im gonna ask that you kindly stop commenting about series you know nothing about. How layered is Obito's Genjutsu? Akainu isnt fighting here and BFR wont work due to Kuzan's resistance.
Roshi magma burned naruto in Kcm 1 who was unaffected by amerterasu and the heat of lightning in the his weakest chakra clock.
You can only scale to lightning temperature if the exposure is prolonged. Secondly Akainu still beats all that passively.
So Roshi magma is way above that heat.
Read above.
Also the rocks are not a problem in case of chibaku tensei. It’s the gravity core.
Which you can still destroy. Naruto, Itachi amd B literally did just that.
Yeah but the jinchuriki should be able to bust out with their chakra clock and is there proof he can freeze energy?
Chakra isn't that type of energy such as light, lightning, etc. It can, and has been frozen by lesser shit.
Also this doesn’t counter tosen who can just stay out of range and spam homing kido that EE from a safe distance.
His Kido isn't homing and he lacks the range to attack from further than Kuzan.
You don’t scale haki to others kuzan hasn’t fought big mom so he doesn’t get resistance to soul manipulation.
Yes we absolutely do. Again stop talking out of your ass, you make shit up out of nowhere all the time. Take your pills Speedster.
 
Genjutsu is layered
Not as much as Kuzan’s Haki.
does way more than just that
What else does Obito’s Genjutsu do other than the three I named? Simply saying “it does more than that” and not elaborating isn’t helpful.
it’s a way to incap akainu and he gets bfr
Akainu isn’t in this match.
Roshi magma burned naruto in Kcm 1 who was unaffected by amerterasu and the heat of lightning in the his weakest chakra clock
Scan for the lightning?

Assuming it’s valid, the scaling chain is this:

Roshi Magma Heat> kcm 1 Naruto Resistance > Lightning Heat

Kuzan Cold ~ Akainu’s Magma Heat > Akainu’s Heat Aura > Post-Timeskip Luffy Resistance > Marineford Luffy Resistance > Lightning Heat

Kuzan is colder than Roahi’s magma is hot.
 
Not as much as Kuzan’s Haki.

What else does Obito’s Genjutsu do other than the three I named? Simply saying “it does more than that” and not elaborating isn’t helpful.

Akainu isn’t in this match.

Scan for the lightning?

Assuming it’s valid, the scaling chain is this:

Roshi Magma Heat> kcm 1 Naruto Resistance > Lightning Heat

Kuzan Cold ~ Akainu’s Magma Heat > Akainu’s Heat Aura > Post-Timeskip Luffy Resistance > Marineford Luffy Resistance > Lightning Heat

Kuzan is colder than Roahi’s magma is hot.
But he can freeze the Jin in their chakra clocks since he hasn’t frozen pure energy. They should be able to live and land their hax.
 
Aokiji can freeze Haki.
Not the same thing and some scans please? Also haki is not the same as large amounts of chakra. Anyway ice in not working on the edo jinchuriki they keep getting close and use their hax. Also obito used izangi while being pelted by 600 billion paper bombs so yeah he should be able to activate it.
 
scans please?
image0.jpg
 
Ah, my bad lmao
ScalYou bc chain for Naruto heat resistance lightning and Amaterasu heat< kn0<kn1 to 9< Kcm 1<Roshi lava clook <full power lava clook that’s more layers than Kuzan and can be further amped by more chakra which he has in abundance.
 
Heat scaling has hardly anything to do with numbers. The main thing is the temperature, Kuzan resists heat manipulation from Akainu in spades so Obito isn't going to be doing anything with fire style.
 
ScalYou bc chain for Naruto heat resistance lightning and Amaterasu heat< kn0<kn1 to 9< Kcm 1<Roshi lava clook <full power lava clook that’s more layers than Kuzan and can be further amped by more chakra which he has in abundance.
When does anyone resist lighting and amaterasu?
 
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