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yes it was in combat, he summoned the 9 tails and isntantly put it in genjustu to **** up the villiage
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HST Showdown - (Round 4 - Tainted Dreams)
- Thread starter Deceived3596
- Start date
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And how often has he done this compared to quite literally everything else?
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i mean he ussally doesent need to because of kaumis broken intag, the point is that hes likely to use it if he needs to
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hes using kuruma as a weapon to win a fight, whats the diffrence between him doing it to someone else to get the same outcome. im not arguing he would win the match either, just that he could maybe catch kuzan lacking and then loose to tosen. bassically deceived fra
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,886
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Huh?
His starting moves is to well.... just stand there and phase through attacks
Counter attack or bfr
Since the argument here is that bfr isn't going to work, genjutsu is the next available weapon in his arsenal.
Which he eventually uses against Konan iirc.
Mind you, kamui slip through is passive
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Never mess with a guy who can go an entire career as a warrior without chipping his nails once.
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Deceived he fought against Akainu for a week straight and that resulted in the permanent climate change of an island. He can definitely freeze shit for hours on end, matter of fact he's done it for a week non stop.
using his Logia powers dont work like that. Ace can produce fire and fight to last 5 days, Kuzan can continue freezing shit for days on end.
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It most likely is, Kuzan can do shit like freeze air, change the climate perfectly, ignores durability etc. Upon freezing whatever comes into contact with Kuzan is made extremely brittle and shatters easily.
also destroying the ice on the sword could possibly work but the only issue being is that Kuzan's ice spreads out to effect the body. It would only start on his sword then rapidly spread, in turn rendering Tosen unconscious.
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Wait since when was Kamui passive? That shit on a time limit on it and he can't attack while intangible. Obito would have to spam it for the whole fight to avoid getting frozen by Kuzan's AoE freezing.
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kamui activates subconsously
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Ah so not passive but somewhat similar.
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There's no soul crush or genjutsu gg.
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Genjutsu is allowed
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- Thread starter
- #256
I'll address these arguments later.
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It wouldn't be much of a problem initially because of his AOE, but when you include the other variables from Obito, such as Genjutsu, Kamui etc, and Tosen using Shunpo, Shikai and Bankai. It could definitely cause some issues for him. At least I believe it would.
Naruto debaters already addressed the Genjutsu portion so I won't address it in my post, it would be redundant to do so.
It could be effortless for Kuzan, it doesn't mean he can't be caught off-guard, or without the ability to effectively react if he's placed into situations which are disadvantageous for him. I believe Tosen could place Kuzan into those disadvantageous situations, especially with the help of Obito.
Kenbun can effectively deal with the Sense Manipulation and Sleep Manipulation of Tosen's kit, I agree with you. It would still be a nuisance to deal with however because it's still affecting his senses, or knocking him unconscious, he just has ways to bypass the vast efficacy of those abilities.
Obito's Intangibility works by sending his body into an entirely separate spatial dimension, Haki's Intang Negation would do absolutely nothing against Obito's flavor of Intangibility.
He could, at least for individual steps with Shunpo, but since Bleach characters generally spam the living heck out of these movement speed enhancements, I believe he could, with due time, hop outside of Kuzan's effective range with his ice. He could also just teleport outside of Kuzan's range if needed as well.
So it was an overtime feat, gotcha.
I don't believe it would necessarily be much greater than this since the feat in question was done overtime, those types of feats generally have vastly higher range than one's normal attacks because of the nature of how the feat was done, it had seemingly hours, or even days to create that much mass of ice while it's being argued that Kuzan can create it in a couple seconds if he so desired.
I don't believe we have enough evidence to assume Kuzan's actual attacks would have higher, or even relative range with this feat.
I'm not saying that Kuzan doesn't have the stamina to continually freeze things, I'm saying with the other factors within this fight, I don't see him continually freezing things for hours upon hours. That's all.
I haven't seen enough evidence to assume that Kuzan's ice is low enough to shatter Tosen's blade, so I wouldn't assume it would, especially when Zans are demonstrably shown to have resistances to low temperatures from the likes of Toshiro or Rukia.
I don't see how either scans actually show Kuzan's ice initially affecting a small portion of one's body, and through the ice, continually travels throughout that person's entire body until they're completely frozen. It just seems like Kuzan's freezing their entire body and that's it, no mention or implication of that traveling happening.
Since UchihaSlayer revised his profile.
Obito spams the ability in-character, so that wouldn't be a problem.
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His Ice Age.
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- Thread starter
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Yeah nah your gucci. I thought that's what you meant after I wrote that so that's fair.
Not all Zan's are created equally when it comes to resistance. Also when it comes to Rukia and Toshira that'd be a good argument if Tosen's resistance scaled to Rukia's and Toshiro's AZ temperatures but as far as I'm aware he doesn't. I haven't seen any evidence posted of Toshiro and Rukia outside of The Blood War arc having comparable temperatures to a guy who can freeze the air and permanently alter the climate of an island against his elemental weakness which scales above lightning temperatures.
Because that's how his ability works. The ice is again, just a byproduct of a temperature drop. Remember Kuzan isn't necessarily a "Ice man." he's a "cold man." essentially what he does is drop the temperature, thus creating ice.
Also that's not true either, he see that happen to Jozu. Kuzan touches his arm, and his entire body is frozen starting from his arm.
And here's the manga for reference.
Fair enough. That's not what I'd call a true passive tho since it still needs to be activated.
Kuzan can counter that by pulling a Minato via Kenbunshoku Haki. Predict when Obito has to turn solid again in order to attack, which is easily done by Kenbunshoku Haki's information Analysis, mind reading, etc.
Kamui wouldn't be as big of an issue as one may think for one reason. Obito can't make his entire body intangibile while attacking, which he'll need to do if he wants to harm Kuzan or Tosen. And Kuzan has precognition to tell when Obito is going to solidify for an attack, so AoE freezing would be a good counter to keep Kamui at bay. The moment Obito goes to attack Kuzan AoE freezes, and if it catches even a limb it's game over for that limb since it'd be instantly frozen.
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speedster352
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Obito can tear his limb off and just regenerate and if Kuzan a problem he pulls just use genjutsu and that’s ggYeah nah your gucci. I thought that's what you meant after I wrote that so that's fair.
Not all Zan's are created equally when it comes to resistance. Also when it comes to Rukia and Toshira that'd be a good argument if Tosen's resistance scaled to Rukia's and Toshiro's AZ temperatures but as far as I'm aware he doesn't. I haven't seen any evidence posted of Toshiro and Rukia outside of The Blood War arc having comparable temperatures to a guy who can freeze the air and permanently alter the climate of an island against his elemental weakness which scales above lightning temperatures.
Because that's how his ability works. The ice is again, just a byproduct of a temperature drop. Remember Kuzan isn't necessarily a "Ice man." he's a "cold man." essentially what he does is drop the temperature, thus creating ice.
Also that's not true either, he see that happen to Jozu. Kuzan touches his arm, and his entire body is frozen starting from his arm.
And here's the manga for reference.
Fair enough. That's not what I'd call a true passive tho since it still needs to be activated.
Kuzan can counter that by pulling a Minato via Kenbunshoku Haki. Predict when Obito has to turn solid again in order to attack, which is easily done by Kenbunshoku Haki's information Analysis, mind reading, etc.
Kamui wouldn't be as big of an issue as one may think for one reason. Obito can't make his entire body intangibile while attacking, which he'll need to do if he wants to harm Kuzan or Tosen. And Kuzan has precognition to tell when Obito is going to solidify for an attack, so AoE freezing would be a good counter to keep Kamui at bay. The moment Obito goes to attack Kuzan AoE freezes, and if it catches even a limb it's game over for that limb since it'd be instantly frozen.
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Regen negation goes brrrrr.
Also your barking up the wrong tree here buddy. If you want someone to entertain you by replying to your booty argument then find another user Speed.
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Also Kuzan can freeze rubber solid. Rubber, ya know the thing that's nearly impossible to actually freeze solid? The only thing that's capable of doing something like that would be liquid nitrogen which causes rubber to freeze solid and become brittle. Liquid nitrogen being − 320 °F.
As far as I'm aware the only characters in Bleach who can outdo Kuzan's level of temperature would be Blood War Arc Rukia and Toshiro and Tosen certainly has no business scaling to them. So I see no reason why Kuzan wouldn't be able to freeze Tosen's Zan.
As far as I'm aware the only characters in Bleach who can outdo Kuzan's level of temperature would be Blood War Arc Rukia and Toshiro and Tosen certainly has no business scaling to them. So I see no reason why Kuzan wouldn't be able to freeze Tosen's Zan.
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Not enough cold feats in fiction, heat is always wanked though
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The warudoBecause when he awakens it, it will freeze time around him
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One of the Aokiji quotes of all time right next to "Where's my super suit?"
Testarossa002
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He doesn't Regen perse
Just goes to get another limb to attach to it
Unless you're referring to rinnegan regen
Kazuma_kuwabara
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This blew my mind not gonna lie, thanks for the info
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Tosen FRA
There isn't much the opponents can do against his flight,FTE shunpo spam, sleep manip,EE or danmaku soul manip.
The only time Kuzan showed to freeze something in the air, he had to extend his hand and shoot this tiny ass frost ray and this actually had to touch before it froze. He is like an ice version of shigaraki, as long as you don't touch the ground, there really isn't much he can do at a range.
Obito main things, Kamui and genjutsu is really not usefull against Tosen , as he can just walk right out of it with his Senkaimon and his genjutsu won't affect him due to his blindness. So Tosen just use his sleep manip after seeing that attacking Obito directly isn't working.
There isn't much the opponents can do against his flight,FTE shunpo spam, sleep manip,EE or danmaku soul manip.
The only time Kuzan showed to freeze something in the air, he had to extend his hand and shoot this tiny ass frost ray and this actually had to touch before it froze. He is like an ice version of shigaraki, as long as you don't touch the ground, there really isn't much he can do at a range.
Obito main things, Kamui and genjutsu is really not usefull against Tosen , as he can just walk right out of it with his Senkaimon and his genjutsu won't affect him due to his blindness. So Tosen just use his sleep manip after seeing that attacking Obito directly isn't working.
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All Logias have elemental flight so thats fine.
Kenbunshoku + Soru
Kenbunshoku.
Gets dodged or blocked by a Emission barrier.
He can freeze the danmaku or dodge it. Soul Manipulation gets countered to an extent via the fact that Kuzan can morph around the sword so it doesn't hit him, or he can opt to freeze and shatter it.
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Someone challenge me.
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Gin wants all the smoke
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Also I doubt either combatant is gonna "help." the other. If anything Obito would probably team up with Kuzan since Tosen has the most amount of hax at his disposal, and the two can work off of synergy via Kenbunshoku and Sharingan information Analysis.
But yeah I believe Kuzan has the strongest reasons for the reasons above. He also has a passive aura which should scale to the likes of lesser Logia's like Ace who's passive aura can stop the snowfall of a winter island passively. And so far I haven't seen anything to imply Tosen can resist having his blade frozen and shattered by the sheer temperature of Kuzan's freezing.
At least Obito can somewhat counter Kuzan's opening move via Kamui. Kuzan can only deal with Kamui via Information Analysis and mind reading allowing him to pull what Minato did to counter Kamui.
Although I'd like to see how Obito vs Tosen would turn out. With Kamui making Obito "intangible." I wonder if Tosen's Bankai would even be effective against Obito.
But yeah I believe Kuzan has the strongest reasons for the reasons above. He also has a passive aura which should scale to the likes of lesser Logia's like Ace who's passive aura can stop the snowfall of a winter island passively. And so far I haven't seen anything to imply Tosen can resist having his blade frozen and shattered by the sheer temperature of Kuzan's freezing.
At least Obito can somewhat counter Kuzan's opening move via Kamui. Kuzan can only deal with Kamui via Information Analysis and mind reading allowing him to pull what Minato did to counter Kamui.
Although I'd like to see how Obito vs Tosen would turn out. With Kamui making Obito "intangible." I wonder if Tosen's Bankai would even be effective against Obito.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,562
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Zanpakuto are soul weapons any feats of Kuzan freezing soul weapons? Tosen has a no-nonsense attitude shikai and bankai EE gg
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Okay now explain how Tosen beats Obito since you obviously don't want smoke from Naruto or Bleach fans.
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Wuzan fra
speedster352
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Simple he understands how kamui works and counters it thanks to his intelligence just like konan, Minato, itachi(sort of) kakashi and madara. And he just keeps attacking or keeps Holman in his bankai since kamui has a time limit of 5 minutes.
