HST Showdown - (Round 6 - Villainous Façades)

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Godernet dude you even skipped my other points WTF. Still you haven't answered why Itachi can't get to put into sleep by Gin Kido which knocks out assistant captain level characters where Itachi doesn't even have feats for Resisting one layer of sleep manipulation on Techniques which works on souls. Gin kido atleast Knocks out characters who can already resists sleep manipulation.

Gin eyes are closed he can just attack the characters with his eyes closed.

 

[Purgy]

Yeah but Gin invisibility is layered

Invisible Beings ≠ Invisible on the level of spiritual energy.

Show me scans for him perceiving spiritual beings. Also how many layers he can perceive. Care to show me where its stated in the profile.

==Rules==
Because of the large stat and hax discrepancy between all three verses, every single match will have stats equalized and Reiatsu Crush/Invisibility/Invulnerability for Souls within Bleach will be restricted for debate-sake, because If I didn’t then literally every single thread will be “Reiatsu Crush GG ” and I don’t want that, I want actual debates. General Soul Manipulation through Zanpakutos are allowed however.

 

[Godernet]

My point went over your head there, my point was that Kenbunshoku FS users like Shanks can see himself being effected by that in the future.

just because he sees it doesn't mean he can know exactly how his ability works and how to counter. something like that's never been displayed before by FS.

"Source? I made it up."

his profile goober lol

Hao and Buso allow for massive amps, it's not unbreakable so let's not act like it.

the shield is an intangible spirit weapon with power null and reactive evolution so yeah even if you argue Buso and Hao give a bigger amp than susanoo(doubt) hes not breaking yata with sheer force.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Purgy how do we treat Camouflage Cloak in this match ?

Seems like bleach characters giving too many handicap

 

[Stryker861]

the yata mirror quite litterally nulls any type of attacks facing it and likely can become omnidirectional

 

[SlendVeny]

Itachi:
-Substition Jutsu, including the Crow Clone Substitution, which substitutes him with crows
-Can sneak attack a guy with incredibly powerful senses who already knew he was there(Sage Mode Kabuto)
-Shurikenjutsu and Phoenix Sage Fire danmaku
-Can knock someone out with a single strike to the neck
-Instinctive Reaction lets him move before he can even think, and even move while someone else has disabled him.
-Can detect people without using his normal senses by hitting them with a wave of chakra akin to radar, senses with Sharingan are even better
-Analytical Prediction works without senses
-Crow summoning disrupts foes
-Has a crow with Kotoamatsukami just in case
-Can completely erase his aura
-The deeper his hatred and pain, the stronger his Sharingan
-Can reflect techniques akin to Genjutsu
-Izanagi gives him a brief time of being completely immune to all attacks at the cost of one eye
-Izanami allows him to BFR someone's mind into an infinite loop at the cost of one eye, I think this has like 5 or 6 layers? It doesn't need eye contact.
-MS Genjutsu has like 3 or 4 layers, and Tsukoyomi is one more.
-Ephemeral, while not an MS Genjutsu, just needs him to point at a target.
-Susano'o is massively > Base, as are Sharingan amps.
-Yata Mirror can negate basically any attack.
-Sword of Totsuka seals anything it hits.
-Shadow and Crow Clones, some of which can be detonated at will.
-Amaterasu can melt metal, and some say it burns with the heat of the sun. Pretty sure it's hotter than lightning too.
-Body Flicker.

 

[LordGinSama]

just because he sees it doesn't mean he can know exactly how his ability works and how to counter. something like that's never been displayed before by FS.

You asserting a limitation isn't a evidence of an actual limitation. All you've done is make meaningless comparisons between FS users whenever that doesn't work for the reasons I've explained before.

his profile goober lol

Doesn't stop him from busting the Susanoo. They aren't intangible.

the shield is an intangible spirit weapon with power null and reactive evolution so yeah even if you argue Buso and Hao give a bigger amp than susanoo(doubt) hes not breaking yata with sheer force.

Sure maybe not the Yata Mirror but he's definitely busting the Susanoo.


Buso and Hao allow for crazy amps while the Susanoo has been busted by things that don't even boost AP. It's been melted, it's been broken by strikes, etc.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Wow, what a witty and original retort.

"Your pfp is a feminine man, therefore you're an inhuman degenerate" is such a funny and inspired take, and totally not you just coping.

sidenote: apparently sub human as one word is censored, I had no idea and that's probably for the best.

The issue isn’t the feminine man, it’s the Monster can part.

But back on topic, Shinigami (particularly Captains) can see Spirit Ribbons which are invisible to people normally, Shinji (somehow) sees through Aizen warping light around himself to be invisible despite knowing Shinji can see Ribbons, and then the cloak is able to hide from Great Noble Captains like Isshin. There is at least a few layers to the cloak’s invisibility even without basic soul invisibility.

 

[Godernet]

You asserting a limitation isn't a evidence of an actual limitation. All you've done is make meaningless comparisons between FS users whenever that doesn't work for the reasons I've explained before.

sure, im not gonna waste time with this point when it doesn't matter.

Doesn't stop him from busting the Susanoo. They aren't intangible.

the susanoo is a huge amp to itachi so even thats questionable.

Sure maybe not the Yata Mirror but he's definitely busting the Susanoo.

doubt. plus if he can't bust the susanoo in time he's getting hit with the classic totsuka gg

Buso and Hao allow for crazy amps while the Susanoo has been busted by things that don't even boost AP. It's been melted

we have that accepted as dura neg

, it's been broken by strikes, etc.

the strikes were from tsunade, who could blast giant holes in Madaras body with ease. but could barely leave cracks on the skeletal susanoo let alone the armored one.

 

[Godernet]

Notice how I didn't specify Future Sight, and just said Kenbun generally, as it has other abilities other than Precog, such as making the user "immune to tricks of the mind"

Sharingan users are immune to similar things but can still be obliterated by Tsukuyomi and have no defense against Kotoamatsukami.

 

[Kachon123]

-Substition Jutsu, including the Crow Clone Substitution, which substitutes him with crows

Future Sight tells Shanks where he would pop up and then Shanks pops him with a long ranged Hao blast.

-Can sneak attack a guy with incredibly powerful senses who already knew he was there(Sage Mode Kabuto)

Kenbun negates stealth mastery with instinctive actions that allow them to attack, dodge, have fights in their sleep.

-Shurikenjutsu and Phoenix Sage Fire danmaku

Hao blasts disperse flames and Kenbun helps with danmaku shuriken.

-Can knock someone out with a single strike to the neck

Buso.

-Instinctive Reaction lets him move before he can even think, and even move while someone else has disabled him.

BA Hao negates this.

-Can detect people without using his normal senses by hitting them with a wave of chakra akin to radar, senses with Sharingan are even better

BA Hao negates this.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

… isn’t base Sasuke relative to Danzo during the Summit? And then Susanoo one shots in its skeletal form? Or Kabutomaru being able to oneshot Itachi if not for Edo regen but then his Susanoo can stop Kabuto in his tracks from killing Sasuke? That shit not even allowed.

 

[SlendVeny]

it's been broken by strikes

Yeah, from characters running >3x amps.

 

[LordGinSama]

the susanoo is a huge amp to itachi so even thats questionable.

As are Buso and Hao amps.

doubt. plus if he can't bust the susanoo in time he's getting hit with the classic totsuka gg

Shanks dodges like it's nothing.

the strikes were from tsunade, who could blast giant holes in Madaras body with ease. but could barely leave cracks on the skeletal susanoo let alone the armored one.

Buso attacks and especially Hao attacks would do a hell of a lot more than just blowing chunks out of his body. We're talking near fatal levels of one shots here.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah, from characters running >3x amps.

Scans? Wouldn't matter since Hao attacks were more effective than Luffy's Gear Fourth against Kaido which is >3x as well.

 

[SlendVeny]

BA Hao negates this.

How does Beyond Advanced Hao negate a form of instinctive action that is just boosting his speed and letting him fight while injured?

 

[Godernet]

As are Buso and Hao amps.

exactly so theres barely any proof he can break a skeletal susanoo let alone the armored one itachi has.

Shanks dodges like it's nothing.

Itachi genjutsu's Shanks to not be able to see the totsuka and makes him accidentally walk into it.

Buso attacks and especially Hao attacks would do a hell of a lot more than just blowing chunks out of his body. We're talking near fatal levels of one shots here.

one shot amps aren't even allowed for this lol

besides even the skeletal susanoo blocks one shot lvl attacks and this one is two lvls higher.

 

[SlendVeny]

Scans?

Read Tsunade's profile

Wouldn't matter since Hao attacks were more effective than Luffy's Gear Fourth against Kaido which is >3x as well.

Yeah, but that's only while factoring in Madara using Humanoid Susano'o, which is < Armored

 

[LordGinSama]

exactly so theres barely any proof he can break a skeletal susanoo let alone the armored one itachi has.

Uh no? I never once supported your argument with mine so don't twist things.

Itachi genjutsu's Shanks to not be able to see the totsuka and makes him accidentally walk into it.

Hao >>>> Itachi's genjutsu range which is now nerfed because of Hao.

one shot amps aren't even allowed for this

You cant restrict Hao lol

 

[LordGinSama]

Read Tsunade's profile

Yeah, but that's only while factoring in Madara using Humanoid Susano'o, which is < Armored

Literally not even on her profile lol

 

[Godernet]

Uh no? I never once supported your argument with mine so don't twist things.

i didnt say you did. I was saying that hao and Buso are oneshot tier amps. even armor susanoo is above that so by that logic theres little evidence Shanks could break it.

Hao >>>> Itachi's genjutsu range which is now nerfed because of Hao.

One second you say Shanks is up close trying to break Susanoo now he's outside of genjutsu range? what lol

You cant restrict Hao lol

Oneshot AP Amps are restricted that wasn't my choice its in the OP.

 

[SlendVeny]

Literally not even on her profile lol

Having a >3x amp with Byakugo? Yes it is, read the values.

 

[LordGinSama]

One second you say Shanks is up close trying to break Susanoo now he's outside of genjutsu range? what lol

He can do both from outside Itachi's range.

 

[Kachon123]

How does Beyond Advanced Hao negate a form of instinctive action that is just boosting his speed and letting him fight while injured?

That's not instinctive action. That's stat amps.

 

[SlendVeny]

That's not instinctive action. That's stat amps.

It's his body moving faster than he thinks.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

The better question is, how is Gin going to be able to deal with layered mind manipulation from Itachi. something he doesn't have resistances for.

Itachi's so-called "layered mind manipulation" wouldn't even work on Gin in the first place because of how soul physiology works. You need to be able to interact with their souls to actually mind hax them

 

[SlendVeny]

He can do both from outside Itachi's range.

Kamisari or whatever is just gonna get negged instantly by Yata Mirror

 

[Godernet]

He can do both from outside Itachi's range.

Even then there’s not much he can do about Yata Mirror and you still haven’t give me a way Shanks gets past Shunshin, Tsukuyomi, Kotoamatsukami, the do over, exploding clones, substituting his body, the huge intelligence gap, or Izanami.

 

[Godernet]

Itachi's so-called "layered mind manipulation" wouldn't even work on Gin in the first place because of how soul physiology works. You need to be able to interact with their souls to actually mind hax them

we already went over this

Genjutsu has feats of working on souls since it can work on Edo tenseis which are essentially just souls attached to a paper body.

Gin doesn’t have the layer Mental Resistances to deal with it

 

[Godernet]

He can do both from outside Itachi's range.

He really can’t especially not when Itachi’s being shielded by Susanoo which could powernull Hao too via Yata Mirror.

 

[LordGinSama]

Even then there’s not much he can do about Yata Mirror and you still haven’t give me a way Shanks gets past Shunshin,

Precognition.

Tsukuyomi, Kotoamatsukami,

Attacking outside his effective range.

the do over,

You mean the thing he cant spam? Hes also dealing with Gin.

exploding clones,

AoE

substituting his body,

Precognition to tell where the real Itachi is.

the huge intelligence gap

It's not nearly as huge as your making it out to be. Itachi isn't a more seasoned swordsman than Mihawk or Shanks, just stop. They're comparable in terms of sheer combat IQ, Itachi got his super genius mainly for his general and strategic intelligence.

or Izanami.

Shanks is already aware of who he is.




Now how's about you tell me what Itachi is doing here whenever he gets ****** on by Gin and Shanks in range? His range isn't even in the kilometers.

 

[Kachon123]

He has the concealing clook

Shanks can read minds.

 

[LordGinSama]

Literally East Blue Zoro was skill stomping stronger, faster opponent with like 6x Instinctive Reactions lol

 

[Godernet]

Precognition.

sure

Attacking outside his effective range.

Shank doesn't even have better range than Itachi on his profile.

You mean the thing he cant spam? Hes also dealing with Gin.

true but I could say the same to you with your assumption that he'll try to instantly fly at Itachi over Gin when Itachi is far more likely to sit back and wait for an opportunity.

AoE

how would that help? Itachi wouldn't send them in hoards. he'd likely test Shanks precog by having a clone try to stab Shanks and if Shanks attempts to attack it make it explode.

Precognition to tell where the real Itachi is.

sure to find him he can do that. but if that's all he has to counter it then he's never hitting Itachi if he keeps using substitution to keep get away and making a plan.

It's not nearly as huge as your making it out to be. Itachi isn't a more seasoned swordsman than Mihawk or Shanks, just stop. They're comparable in terms of sheer combat IQ, Itachi got his super genius mainly for his general and strategic intelligence.

he has extraordinary genius in combat intelligence too.

And yes via feats and lore he is far more intelligent than Shanks.

Shanks is already aware of who he is.

fair

Now how's about you tell me what Itachi is doing here whenever he gets ****** on by Gin and Shanks in range? His range isn't even in the kilometers.

again Shanks profile only has extended melee range lol

even Adv Hao won't help if it gets powernulled by Yata Mirror, which you still haven't given a counter for nor Totsuka.

Itachi also has his own ranged aoe attacks if he really needs them.

 

[Godernet]

Literally East Blue Zoro was skill stomping stronger, faster opponent with like 6x Instinctive Reactions lol

that shit is not that impressive.

 

[Kachon123]

Shank doesn't even have better range than Itachi on his profile.

Disingenuous response tbh.

 

[Godernet]

Disingenuous response tbh.

I'm evil like Sasuke

Goonery aside, I also mentioned that any ranged attack Shanks tries just gets negged by Yata Mirror and Itachi's own ranged abilities so Shanks has no shot of getting past it without getting close and risking getting hit by Totsuka.

 

[Kachon123]

any ranged attack Shanks tries just gets negged by Yata Mirror

Proof that Yata Mirror would get negged by a Haki blast like this?

 

[Godernet]

Proof that Yata Mirror would get negged by a Haki blast like this?

no, you prove that Haki can get through a spiritual weapon with no form that powernulls and evolves to adapt to block attacks.

 

[LordGinSama]

that shit is not that impressive.

That shit is extremely impressive.