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Some of them can, but there are some like this it seems
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HST Showdown - (Round 7 - Prodigies)
- Thread starter Deceived3596
- Start date
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From up close? Wouldn't he get caught up in it as well?
Also if that were to happen, Ace would still be fine. He's made of fire, he'd just reform.
Not burning the kunai, putting fire on it so that if Minato teleports to them, he'd get burned.
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He sensed where wb would punch and dodged it using observation haki
So its advanced enough for ace to know where minato will teleport
Rapid fire teleporting is an interesting thought but all that would really accomplish is minato draining his chakra supply while not being capable of actually harming ace or putting a dent in his ridiculous stamina
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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1. I meant from a distance
2. The Kurama Avatar can probably tank the Bijuudama
Eh fire and the Bijuudama aren't really the same even if they're both hot. How good is his reformation?
He can teleport outside the range of fire
So like a discount Ultra Instinct?He sensed where wb would punch and dodged it using observation haki
So its advanced enough for ace to know where minato will teleport
I don't really think stamina is an issue given that he has 50% Kurama's chakra. He literally teleported like thousands of people at once in canon.
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He can reform from pretty much anything, logias can have their entire body shattered and still reform.
True but he's not gonna win that way, sooner or later he's gonna have to confront ace
Observation haki allows its users to sense the intent and emotions of whoever they are fighting to predetermine where and how they're gonna attack, so not so much like ultra instinct.
Minato does have a ridiculous amount of stamina but my point still stands. He can rapid fire teleport but that wont really accomplish anything
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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Even from being reduced to nothing?
Could try outlasting, how long can Ace be in his Logia form?
How can they ever be hit? Surely they're not invincible in the verse.
Ace surviving also isn't gonna accomplish anything
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Indefinitely.
They're not, but that's because Kenbun cancels each other out. Person A with Kenbun vs Person B with Kenbun would look like a normal fight. Person A with Kenbun vs Kenbun B without Kenbun would look much different, where Person A would be virtually untouchable as seen in Skypiea.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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Rude. Bankai Toshiro still freezes their souls and that a gg with his 10 plus km range
So doesn't Toshiro counter Minato and Ace badly?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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- Tensō Jūrin: The basic ability of Hyōrinmaru that controls the weather over a 7.3 mile (11.78 kilometer) radius. This increases in Bankai. This just his shikai
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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What about his stamina in general?
So are you saying he's invincible in this context?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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And everyone is forgetting Tosiro aoe freezing and winning this battle
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Does Kurama Mode/Bankai amp their stats here or is it still stat = even with the forms but just granting abilities?
Either way Toshiro’s soul hax + NPI is most likely enough to beat either of them if he hits, since their soul hax resistance doesn’t cover the kind of soul manip Toshiro uses
However, Ace’s Obs Haki and Minato’s FTG makes it so that Toshiro doesn’t just run up on either and cut them down. Idk how to scale the heat or coldness of their abilities, so idk if Toshiro’s ice is affecting Ace or not, but Toshiro in a weaker key did say he could freeze explosions. He could also freeze Cang Du’s assumed strongest Reishi technique. Even regular arrows from basic Quincy are able to generate heat, and fodder soldats can generate blue reishi flames that can burn down Hueco Mundo which is resistant to flames and fire.
Post Timeskip Shikai Toshiro’s ice > Yukio’s Explosions
Literally dying Post Training Hollow Bankai Toshiro’s ice > Cang Du’s assumed strongest reishi attack > Cang Du’s regular arrows >>>> Soldat’s arrows/reishi manipulation/reishi fire > Hueco Mundo’s fire resistant environment > fire
With stats = Minato and Ace have advantages over Toshiro in terms of melee with FTG and Obs Haki. Though canonically Toshiro post Timeskip uses what he learned from his battles with Aizen and now used words/taunts as a weapon in his fights to mess with his opponents head (showcased specifically against Yukio but still used later on) so it’s possible he could get under Ace’s skin and get his Haki to mess up, though how they’d interact with dialogue is pure speculation.
He also has massive AOE to deal with those tools from Ace and Minato. Especially problematic for Minato’s Kunai/seals if they get frozen. Idk how to gauge combat skill between the 3:
I’m leaning Toshiro because of the above mentioned reasons + things like dura neg via freezing to the bone (which also works on a soul based level), which in stats equalized should be an easy move to pull off, but I’m not fully committing cuz idk how his and Ace’s powers would interact
Either way Toshiro’s soul hax + NPI is most likely enough to beat either of them if he hits, since their soul hax resistance doesn’t cover the kind of soul manip Toshiro uses
However, Ace’s Obs Haki and Minato’s FTG makes it so that Toshiro doesn’t just run up on either and cut them down. Idk how to scale the heat or coldness of their abilities, so idk if Toshiro’s ice is affecting Ace or not, but Toshiro in a weaker key did say he could freeze explosions. He could also freeze Cang Du’s assumed strongest Reishi technique. Even regular arrows from basic Quincy are able to generate heat, and fodder soldats can generate blue reishi flames that can burn down Hueco Mundo which is resistant to flames and fire.
Post Timeskip Shikai Toshiro’s ice > Yukio’s Explosions
Literally dying Post Training Hollow Bankai Toshiro’s ice > Cang Du’s assumed strongest reishi attack > Cang Du’s regular arrows >>>> Soldat’s arrows/reishi manipulation/reishi fire > Hueco Mundo’s fire resistant environment > fire
With stats = Minato and Ace have advantages over Toshiro in terms of melee with FTG and Obs Haki. Though canonically Toshiro post Timeskip uses what he learned from his battles with Aizen and now used words/taunts as a weapon in his fights to mess with his opponents head (showcased specifically against Yukio but still used later on) so it’s possible he could get under Ace’s skin and get his Haki to mess up, though how they’d interact with dialogue is pure speculation.
He also has massive AOE to deal with those tools from Ace and Minato. Especially problematic for Minato’s Kunai/seals if they get frozen. Idk how to gauge combat skill between the 3:
I’m leaning Toshiro because of the above mentioned reasons + things like dura neg via freezing to the bone (which also works on a soul based level), which in stats equalized should be an easy move to pull off, but I’m not fully committing cuz idk how his and Ace’s powers would interact
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How so?
No, just that he can predict all of Minato's movements, read his mind, get premonitions of the future, and sense the intent of his attacks.
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Ace's heat scales above 28000º c.
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Problem is how low is the freeze temp?
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Minato also has intent sensing with kurumas chakra so it might slightly cancel out. I wont argue that minatos precog is on par with ace's tho
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Intent sensing doesn't cancel out Kenbun. Other Kenbun cancels out Kenbun.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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Ok, but even if he can predict what someone's gonna do, that doesn't necessarily mean he'd be able to stop it right? Like even if he knows what Minato's planning, how does he stop Minato from dashing and teleporting around as he prepares his sealing jutsu?
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By placing his attacks where Minato would plan on going, as I sent in the scans here
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i vote incon
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Reasoning?
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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And if Minato dodges those?
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Proof that he would be able to?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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His ice targets the soul so it's like soul freezing so it would freeze their souls and that's the end of that his ice can freeze fire, explosions and even lighting so it's very impressive and way colder than normal ice maybe near AZ but that's too presumptuous at this point.
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That's cool and all, but Ace's fire is vastly superior to 28000º c. Is there proof that it can freeze Ace's fire?
Haki resists freezing anyways, so even if it could freeze him (which it can't), he'd just break out of it.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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Not his soul getting frozen. Yes, it should freeze him regardless of temperature. Also wasn't Ace wrecked by magma which Oda said was because of the temperature of magma being hotter than fire 1500 degrees it was able to harm Ace in logia form? Also, he is freezing the soul not the fire since it can't interact with souls. Also he has kido that can help too.
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Haki would stop his soul getting frozen. Haki itself protects the soul from being tampered with seen with Big Mom, Gecko Moria, and Brook's devil fruits. As well as Haki being able to resist the effects of Law's devil fruit abilities, which follows the target regardless of their soul being put in a different body.
Based on?
The eminating heat from Akainu's magma alone has heat feats putting it at above 28000º c as accepted on the wiki.
Which ones and what do they do?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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Layered soul manipulation counter haki remember and ace has no scaling to big mom he lost to admirals. also freezing explosions are virtually impossible.
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I don't remember because this was never a thing due to Ace's Haki also being layered.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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Bleach soul manipulation is extremely layered. Also Ace doesn't scale to big mom at all. Anyway that's all from me get the bleach supporters.
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To what degree?
I never said he did.
Good job at proving nothing and twisting my words, I guess.
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Idk man
Being in his logia form doesn't take stamina, he only loses stamina when he's actively fighting which he can do for 5 days straight.
Its not invincible, knowing one's intent does not make you immune to getting blitzed. Not everyone is as skilled as Ace when it comes to observation haki, some people only have very basic sensory abilities with it
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How does Ace get scaling from Akainu when Ak’s hot enough to burn him without using Haki?
And iirc, isn’t Soul Hax in the form of actually damaging souls considered a layer above Haki in One Piece? With Brook being able to harm Big Mom’s main homies without Haki but his soul hax based DF (despite Big Mom being a Haki monster), but other Haki monsters like Kaido not being able to harm them? Even when someone like Zoro with Enma cut Prometheus with flame based NPI, it didn’t actually harm him without any soul hax on Zoro’s end
Anyways, which of Brook’s soul based abilities were resisted? Since resisting one kind of hax under a certain category doesn’t mean you resist all hax under that category
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Ace scales to the emanating heat from akainu's magma. Similarly to how I can stand by a campfire without being burned while not scaling to the fire itself.
I'll respond to everything else when I get back from work.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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False equivalence I mean other characters stand near Akainu and they still get wrecked by his magma. Again this match just ends with aoe soul freezing with near AZ ice( being able to freeze explosions) and layered soul manipulation.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,424
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Voting for Ace. Kenbun counters teleportation spam from Minato, and his logia intang counters most attacks. The only problem minato gives ace is sealing which is counterd by kenbun and simply unrelenting fire spam. He also outscales Toshiro's Ice.
This match sucks tho, the next one is gonna be way better.
This match sucks tho, the next one is gonna be way better.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,220
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My vote goes to toshiro aoe soul freezing near az ice
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Did Deceived mention what the next one is?
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 5,993
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Wdym "proof?" He's obviously never interacted with a specific ability like that, but he's a very skilled and agile ninja, and the person in that scan you sent is shown dodging the pre-emptive attacks
So a sufficiently powerful Bijuudama is a possibly wincon?
Pretty goated stamina, not sure Minato could match that as he never had the chance to run out his KCM timer, just ended it by giving all his chakra to Naruto.
I mean in a stats equalized match
