HST Showdown - (Round 6 - Villainous Façades)

[Godernet]

Battle goes something like this.


Shanks uses Kenbunshoku, to see the immediate actions of both opponents. From there, he uses Beyond Advanced Hao to negate either character's ESP, Enhanced Senses, and analytical prediction, essentially making their vision and senses that of a normal human.

kenbun doesn't give enhanced details of an opponents abilities so no.

he cant neg the sharingan via Hao.

Shanks then smacks Itachi from a distance he can't sense or react from, topped with its range and AoE Itachi wouldn't be able to avoid it while stripped of his Enhanced Senses

why wouldn't he be able to react?

 

[Godernet]

Anyway, do we have a counter to Susano'o's sword, or is Susano'o restricted?

not restricted.

 

[Kachon123]

Anyway, do we have a counter to Susano'o's sword,

Future Sight seeing himself get sealed, them simply using Buso Emission.

 

[speedster352]

Seems like a common trend that you just vote for the Bleach character without reading the other arguments.

But gin can sense souls it’s not just normal ESP. How would shanks find him with his clook on?

 

[Kachon123]

But gin can sense souls it’s not just normal ESP

So does Kenbun.

 

[LordGinSama]

kenbun doesn't give enhanced details of an opponents abilities so no.

It literally does, they get it from their visions of the future. So yes.

he cant neg the sharingan via Hao.

He absolutely can. You saying he can't isn't evidence. Try again.

why wouldn't he be able to react?

Because his sight would be reduced to that of a human.

 

[LordGinSama]

Kenbunshoku Haki can do everything the Sharingan can and then some, and Shanks can negate any ability in the Kenbunshoku Haki page.

 

[Godernet]

False, Future sight users have information Analysis based on what they collect in the future. Power sensing is for lower levels.

the future won't tell him anything since all he'll see is him falling after trying to attack itachi

Also Shanks isn't Katakuri, you cannot use what Kata can't do as a basis for something Shanks can't do.

you claimed FS has an ability I use a FS user as evidence that its not to the extent you think it is.

Then explain those counters.

do over, susanoo, Itachi's genjutsu which is just a glance, izanami, amaterasu, clones, substitution, etc.

 

[Kachon123]

Kenbunshoku Haki can do everything the Sharingan can and then some, and Shanks can negate any ability in the Kenbunshoku Haki page.

Other than Genjutsu and Mangekyo shenanigans*

 

[speedster352]

So does Kenbun.

Scans? Also how would he know where gin is anyway he still has his clook and kido making him invisible even to shinigami Haki won’t work if you can sense the opponent or if they have no intent at all. Gin is a pretty laxed character so he doesn’t give any bloodlust.

 

[Godernet]

Kenbunshoku Haki can do everything the Sharingan can and then some, and Shanks can negate any ability in the Kenbunshoku Haki page.

ken is an ability that shanks can stop you from turning on that lets you neg percog.

analytical prediction while giving the same outcome is very different conceptually. theres no proof he can neg someones eyeballs passive ability.

 

[speedster352]

What counters does shanks have to Amaterasu?

 

[Kachon123]

the future won't tell him anything since all he'll see is him falling after trying to attack itachi

Kenbun gives Instinctive Actions.

 

[SlendVeny]

Future Sight seeing himself get sealed, them simply using Buso Emission.

How would that block the attack? Their bases are equal, Susano'o is Armored > Humanoid > Skeletal > EMS > Sharingan > Base. Even if it did, all the Haki the blade hit would be sealed away.

 

[speedster352]

What counters does shanks have to Amaterasu?

Also how would shanks get past susano plus Tara mirror plus tosuka blade?

 

[Kachon123]

What counters does shanks have to Amaterasu?

Heat resistance, Buso Emission, Dodging with speed, Dodging with Future Sight, Dispersing with Hao.

 

[SlendVeny]

What counters does shanks have to Amaterasu?

I think Akainu burns hotter

 

[SlendVeny]

I think Akainu burns hotter

albeit that depends on a few statements

 

[Godernet]

Might vote Shanks. He pretty much counters Itachi's Genjutsu with his Kenbun,

he doesn't, because all FS shows him is that he falls.

and can stop his other Sharingan precog-esque abilities with BA Ha.

its not precog nor does it need to be activated as its just a passive ability of his eyes. you'd have to prove if works on Sharingan.

Shanks is skilled enough to rival Mihawk, who is the most skilled fighter in the verse. Because of this, I believe that he can hang with, and even overwhelm both Gin and Itachi if it gets to a close fight, especially considering how he'd have access to 10 seconds in the future and also have access to whatever their thinking while they don't.

Itachi is far more skilled and intelligent.

 

[speedster352]

Also how would shanks get past susano plus Tara mirror plus tosuka blade?

So anyone…

 

[Godernet]

Kenbun gives Instinctive Actions.

that really doesn't matter with how Itachis genjutsu tortures you into an incap.

 

[LordGinSama]

the future won't tell him anything since all he'll see is him falling after trying to attack itachi

Kenbunshoku can stop mental interferences, again he can absolutely see himself being effected by mind hax based on the visions from the future.

you claimed FS has an ability I use a FS user as evidence that its not to the extent you think it is.

What...? Rephrase what your saying here because I'm confused.

do over, susanoo, Itachi's genjutsu which is just a glance, izanami, amaterasu, clones, substitution, etc.

Shanks can break the Susanoo via Buso and Hao amps, Genjutsu gets countered by Shanks seeing it, closing his eyes or outright negging his senses so Shanks can hit him from out of his sensing range.

ken is an ability that shanks can stop you from turning on that lets you neg percog.

Ken doesn't do that, that's a Hao ability so you'd be incorrect again unfortunately.

analytical prediction while giving the same outcome is very different conceptually. theres no proof he can neg someones eyeballs passive ability.

Kenbunshoku in lower level also grants Analytical Prediction.


The evidence is him negging Kenbunshoku which is passive.

 

[SlendVeny]

So anyone…

Speedster, they aren't going to respond positively if it's you making the argument.

Anyway, for everyone's info, since I have read through all 3 series, I'll inform everyone who doesn't know. The Yata Mirror literally negates incoming strikes.

 

[Godernet]

voting Itachi btw. Neither character has an actual counter to Tsukuyomi or Izanami

Itachi also has better intelligence and skill than both and numerous ways to weasle out of being attacked via clones, subtle genjutsu, substitution, susanoo, and do overs via izanagi.

 

[SlendVeny]

What...? Rephrase what your saying here because I'm confused.

The person said "You're talking about FS, so I used an FS user as a counterexample."

 

[speedster352]

Again what stops Gin from sniping? He has the concealing clook and his bankai and shikai should be enough but I digress I will leave the rest to the bleach supporters. My vote goes to Gin for now.

 

[LordGinSama]

The person said "You're talking about FS, so I used an FS user as a counterexample."

Yeah that's not a counter example. You can't compare Kata to Shanks.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

voting Itachi btw. Neither character has an actual counter to Tsukuyomi or Izanami

Itachi also has better intelligence and skill than both and numerous ways to weasle out of being attacked via clones, subtle genjutsu, substitution, susanoo, and do overs via izanagi.

You still not countered what i said. Just ignored?

Whats stopping Gin Zanpackto saving him in his mental realm?

Yes only one layer. Which Gin can resists it with his Zanpackto breaking him out of it.

If it's only MS Genjustu sure but it's only one layer baseline that's all.

• Gin has Camouflage cloaks and teleportation Technique Kido. Knowing his way of fighting he would rather maintain his distance and try to sneak attack.
• Not to mention his eyes are closed all the time. He rarely opens them.
• He also has a Kido which even nocks out character like Rangiku where Souls already has sleep manipulation Resistance. Itachi doesn't have Resistance to Sleep manipulation on his soul. atleast Itachi needs more than one layer of resistance to break out it.

 

[speedster352]

voting Itachi btw. Neither character has an actual counter to Tsukuyomi or Izanami

Itachi also has better intelligence and skill than both and numerous ways to weasle out of being attacked via clones, subtle genjutsu, substitution, susanoo, and do overs via izanagi.

But Gin mostly keeps his eyes closed and he has the concealing clock so he can’t be seen or sensed so he basically has layered invisibility and he would snipe from a range anyway.

 

[Kachon123]

How would that block the attack? Their bases are equal, Susano'o is Armored > Humanoid > Skeletal > EMS > Sharingan > Base

Flame Sword + Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion > Buso Emission > Buso Koka > Buso > Base

Big whoop

 

[SlendVeny]

Flame Sword + Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion > Buso Emission > Buso Koka > Buso > Base

Big whoop

Ok, but you said just Buso emission.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Gin has Layered Invisibility on Spiritual level. Itachi can't even sense him let alone seeing him is impossible to put him under Genjustu.

 

[Godernet]

Kenbunshoku can stop mental interferences, again he can absolutely see himself being effected by mind hax based on the visions from the future.

you'd need proof it works on layered Mind hax on the lvl of itachi. Sasuke can see through genjutsu via sharingan too but can't stop tsukuyomi from hitting him.

What...? Rephrase what your saying here because I'm confused.

FS and Sharingan are fundamentally different. Analytical Prediction and Precog don't work the same and one if passive while the other is active.

saying Hao would neg Sharingan is an unfounded assumption just because the two abilities are similar in effects.

Shanks can break the Susanoo via Buso and Hao amps,

he can't break the yata mirror

Genjutsu gets countered by Shanks seeing it, closing his eyes or outright negging his senses so Shanks can hit him from out of his sensing range.

closing his eyes assumes Shanks knows he would need to before ever looking at Itachi one time, which is incredibly unlikely. and this doesn't stop the do over via Izanagi

Ken doesn't do that, that's a Hao ability so you'd be incorrect again unfortunately.

I mean't Hao mb.

Kenbunshoku in lower level also grants Analytical Prediction.

thats not on the haki page.

The evidence is him negging Kenbunshoku which is passive.

Ken is not passive stop.

 

[Stryker861]

voting itachi, way to haxed

 

[Godernet]

Gin has Layered Invisibility on Spiritual level. Itachi can't even sense him let alone seeing him is impossible to put him under Genjustu.

itachi can perceive invisible beings and entities.

read his profile btw

 

[Godernet]

Flame Sword + Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion + Buso Emission > Hao Infusion > Buso Emission > Buso Koka > Buso > Base

Big whoop

Shanks hasn't show buso emission yet.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

itachi can perceive invisible beings and entities.

read his profile btw

Invisible Beings ≠ Invisible on the level of spiritual energy.

Show me scans for him perceiving spiritual beings. Also how many layers he can perceive. Care to show me where its stated in the profile.

 

[LordGinSama]

you'd need proof it works on layered Mind hax on the lvl of itachi. Sasuke can see through genjutsu via sharingan too but can't stop tsukuyomi from hitting him.

My point went over your head there, my point was that Kenbunshoku FS users like Shanks can see himself being effected by that in the future.

FS and Sharingan are fundamentally different. Analytical Prediction and Precog don't work the same and one if passive while the other is active.

It's already in the Haki page as "Can predict and sometimes see the future." lower levels of Haki doesn't allow you to "see." the future only make predictions which is Analytical Prediction. It being passive doesn't save it from negation, it would need resistance to negation for that argument to work.

he can't break the yata mirror

"Source? I made it up." Hao and Buso allow for massive amps, it's not unbreakable so let's not act like it.

thats not on the haki page

Read above.

 

[speedster352]

itachi can perceive invisible beings and entities.

read his profile btw

Yeah but Gin invisibility is layered

 

[Kachon123]

he doesn't, because all FS shows him is that he falls.

Notice how I didn't specify Future Sight, and just said Kenbun generally, as it has other abilities other than Precog, such as making the user "immune to tricks of the mind"