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Skill Wars: The Skill Strikes Back

I know a character who has 3 of these 5 points (1, 2 and possibly 5) but sadly he isn't in the wiki.
 
He is from a xianxia (chinese isekai) book, Ji Ning, from Desolate Era. In the 19th book, he was able to create a pseudo-black hole and surpass the speed of light using just his skill in the sword, what he will be able to do in the 43rd book idk.
 
Is a mechanism explained for how they did this? Shit like that sounds impressive but it sadly does not qualify for this list since it isn't really quantifiable unless there are a **** ton of people who can't do something like that who are really skilled

Still, that verse sounds really interesting
 
Oh, btw. I think it is reasonable to say that the sword saints are at least on par with Ikki in skill if not greater given the arguments made in the Musashi vs Ikki thread for skill differences. We did pause the skill debate for the moment, but I think that what we have so far should be enough. If y'all don't wanna read that thread, I can copy paste some arguments, such as the drastic skill differences between Mages in Nasuverse far over eclipses the skill differences between magic users in Cavalry, hence Kojiro unlocking true magic phenomena via raw skill (something completely beyond the access of the skill of mages) is a more impressive skill feat than what that verse has to represent from that aspect of scaling
 
Hell yeah lol. I can link it if you want, I'm probably gonna go respond there in a bit, so great timing. Earl and I have been going at it
 
In the verse there are the heavenly daos (basically the laws of reality) and a mysterious major power created a sword-art which allows everyone who gains mastery over it to surpass the speed of light. The blackhole is probably just to sound cool.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
Already found it. Can you get me up to speed?
Click to expand...
Sure. I should start by saying there have been basically 3 different debates going on.

(1) the hax debate, which we started with but then put on hold because we wanted to talk about the skill debate more. We currently just moved forward under the assumption that Ikki has the right mindset to bypass Nothingness, but I'm actually not sure of this. Also there was discussion of acausality and how much of Musashi's hax abilities are actually reliant on the fate manip itself since they are the cherry on top, not what makes them so broken, and the hax are a writing tool to explain the extent of their skill anyway

(2) the skill debate. Way too much here to get it all but some of the main topics was whether or not Musashi and Kojiro surpassing human limitation meant they could be scaled above all the "human level" characters. Earl argued that just because they surpass any of them individually does not mean they scale above a hypothetical "composite" version who has all their abilities, but I responded with that even if in most cases you couldn't, the sword saints can since even a being who mastered all the discussed arts can still be considered within the bounds of human limitation. We eventually moved forward with comparing skill feats, such as "being one with a given weapon," "knowing every single martial art there is," and "having the ability to grant themselves mastery in any given art form on a whim." There is way more to this, and I won't be able to do all the points justice to try and summarize them. I do think you should definitely do Control F "Caster of Black" because I think my point about the skill differences between not even that Godly of mages is a great demonstration of the kind of skill "hierarchy" that Kojiro transcends by gaining access to true magic phenomena via raw skill

(3) how abilities interact, this is the most recent one and probably the easiest to follow
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
At least one or multiple of these things: (4) Have Earl Supporting you
Click to expand...
Kek

You're flattering me

As for anyone nearing ikki Not happening for as long as i still draw breath nah. I let the skill debate cuz it was getting way too long and way less important than the actual skill feats. Do not count me out yet xD.
 
I don't think the Sword Saints are superior to Ikki. I think they are superior to Sasaki although I also think Fugil is superior to Sasaki too so...
 
Windu's statements in ROTS novel.

Sidious calling Obi-wan a brilliant tactician, etc.
 
Tactician means nothing in a fight. Windu's statement is about Obi's Soresu which due to its purely defensive nature has no weaknesses ... beyond having to go on the offensive. That same novel also has Obi losing to Dooku despite having Anakin's help, Anakin being better at lightsaber combat than Obi.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Tactician means nothing in a fight. Windu's statement is about Obi's Soresu which due to its purely defensive nature has no weaknesses ... beyond having to go on the offensive. That same novel also has Obi losing to Dooku despite having Anakin's help, Anakin being better at lightsaber combat than Obi.
Click to expand...
>Tactician means nothing in a Fight

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure would like to know your locatio
 
@Iap

Obi has none of those tactics so JoJo's can gogo away.

@Whis

I mean .... Anakin is stronger but to say or imply that it is the only/main reason he does better than Obi against Dooku (even as a Padawan) or in general is simply wrong. Since you want to use the RotS novelization, Obi hard countered Anakin's Djem So with his Soresu, knew Anakin better than anyone else did to the point he knew what he would do (as shown with the high ground where Anakin was just glaring), Anakin was constantly declining in skill, defense and mental state as the fight went on, completely bloodlusted and caught between the light and dark side weakening him even more due to the conflict (as shown by their Force Push clash being equal) yet still has the upper hand against Obi until the high ground.

Pretty safe to say Anakin is more skilled than Obi-Wan.
 
About the Sword Saint waifu-chan, are we in agreement with 2nd or 1st place? Let's vote on it and please list why you believe what you do
 
I say she surpasses RoR Sasaki, but I'll wait for the Ikki debate to finish first.

I think all we've nailed down is that she's either comparable to or a bit above Fugil.
 
Doesn't Yagyu basically have Sasaki's Thousand Image Defense? Which her pre-Zero self stalemated or something and her Zero self godstomps?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Doesn't Yagyu basically have Sasaki's Thousand Image Defense? Which her pre-Zero self stalemated or something and her Zero self godstomps?
Click to expand...
Pre-Zero she couldn't defeat him on her own, because he literally accounts for every possible outcome of a fight. Hence, her fighting style and Fate hax were totally countered, as she could not select an outcome where she won to bring about. She attained her full Zero, which let her create a new possibilities entirely. This was pre-Suigetsu Yagyu of course. I think it is fair to say that Full Suigetsu Yagyu is the most skilled out of the bunch, but they are all relative to eachother
 
@anon: I disagree, Anakin is pure raw power and that is his whole shtick.

Kind of off-topic- Also, Dooku's fighting style perfectly counters Obi-wan's, we see a weaker version of Obi-wan 1v2 Maul and Savage while Dooku was getting his ass handed to him by Savage and Ventress (who was quite a bit weaker than Maul), heck I rate Maul above Dooku. I do not think Dooku could beat Grievious fight onward Kenobi and there is no way in hell he'd have a shot against the Ben Kenobi who casually one-shotted Maul with a rage boost and had the upper hand against Vader who was superior to Dooku or ROTS Anakin, especially if he had a rage boost like he did against Maul. Heck he lost to TCW Kenobi once or twice.
 
Yes being the Chosen One with the highest Force potential in history up til that point (can't speak for Disney canon) is his thing but to imply that is all he has when he is straight up stated by numerous Masters and council members to be one of the absolute best lightsaber duelists of the Era and has feats to prove it is disingenuous when you are trying to argue Obi-Wan is the most skilled when Anakin can stalemate him despite being hard countered and has other feats that place him above Obi.

The one after Maul reveals he is alive to Obi and Savage no diffs him? The Ventress fight? They lost and had to run away. The Adi Gallia fight? Obi was playing pure defense, losing and after taking Savage's arm with his only offensive, Maul clapped his ass before taking Savage away, proving himself to be the least dickish sith master in canon.

Losing to Ventress and Savage? He handled Ventress with ease and the only time the fight went against him was when Savage (whose thing actually is brute strength) knocked the saber from his hand cuz he was countered in a saber fight there (like in RotS). What happens? He still dodges everything they have, no diffs Savage with some lightning and no diffs Ventress while not looking. It takes a sneak attack from rage amped Savage to tag him and he still manages to slap him away and leave the sith threesome where he no diffs Ventress .... again. Amped Savage then proceeds to push back Anakin and Obi in a 1v2 before the droids attack.

Unless you are telling me he has huge jumps in skill or power after losing, Dooku bodies Obi at any point in RotS. Hell, Grievous fight Obi was what .... days after Dooku bullied him?. Ben didn't outskill Maul on Tatooine, he played him like a sucker. Ben never had the upper hand against Vader, he was getting pushed back the whole time before giving up when Luke started watching.
 
He was definitely much stronger by ANH, we rate his ANH version higher than Dooku on his profile, heck he was 7A until recently.

Dooku and Anakin may be stronger than TCW/ROTS Kenobi but strength =/= skill. He has a statement as the most skilled fighter around.
 
.... I never mentioned Dooku beating Ben tho? I said any Obi in RotS. I never mentioned Dooku being (physically) stronger either. I even pointed out that raw strength counters him. Never claimed strength = skill either so thats 3 strawmans.

A statement? He also has statements of hard countering an Anakin who was greatly weakened to the point they were equal in the Force and progressively getting worse as the fight went on as well as feats of Anakin doing better against people that beat Obi along with numerous statements of having the most combat experience out of any Jedi and more skill than everyone aside from Yoda and Mace. Casual Vader pushing him back etc. All that >>>>>> 1 statement.

Note that this is all Anakin >>> Obi Wan while your claim was Obi > everybody.

Mace, Yoda and Sidious: A joke to you, am I ************? (Evil laugh)
 
Those weren't intentional straw mans, my mistake I misunderstood you.

It's not like those guys are stronger than Obi-wan to the point that skill doesn't matter or anything.

I honestly think the duel on Mustafar was a perfect example of a weaker, more skilled character using his superior skill to beat a stronger, less skilled character.

Dooku beating Kenobi is a feat of superior strength not skill.
 
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