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Skill Wars: The Last Skill Thread

That's what I mean. We don't include Musashi cutting and deflecting attacks from a 2-A nonexistent being through skill, or SMT protagonists defeating an infinite number of uber-haxxed 1-Cs through skill, or SCP-076 soloing an army of 1-Bs through skill, but it would be quite fun to discuss which of those is more memetically impressive.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
That's what I mean. We don't include Musashi cutting and deflecting attacks from a 2-A nonexistent being through skill, or SMT protagonists defeating an infinite number of uber-haxxed 1-Cs through skill, or SCP-076 soloing an army of 1-Bs through skill, but it would be quite fun to discuss which of those is more memetically impressive.
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I... excuse me?? Is that why Nanashi was up on the list on the earlier skill threads??
 
A little bit, yes.

Him and each of his teammates defeating infinite+ YHVH heads. And Massacre Nanashi being able to effortlessly outskill and curbstomp each of said teammates.
 
Well I have mentioned that shit there. Some people tend to overrate analysis feats and stuff that should count as a normal superpower and ignore actual combat feats that could be much more useful. There are characters that have barely any ACTUAL martial art/swordsmanship feats, and still are "skillstomping" those with ACTUAL feats.
 
I think that's why eventually decided not to count Perfect Vision for Ikki, especially since it worked (kind of) on someone who was explicitly more skilled than he is.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
A little bit, yes.
Him and each of his teammates defeating infinite+ YHVH heads. And Massacre Nanashi being able to effortlessly outskill and curbstomp each of said teammates.
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I haven't seen too much of IVA, was it explicitly just through sword skill?
 
I mean, Ikki has cool feats, but I've read entirety of his listed feats and it's not as godlike as I've heard everyone made it to be. Maybe someday I will have strength to debate against this, because I think most stuff listed is just supernatural. It doesn't matter if it was achieved at training, most characters in combat-fiction improve their abilities by training and somehow it's not listed as skill. I would suggest some characters with swordsmanship here after move most likely, when I have the will to debate :P
 
Pretty sure we still count Perfect Vision, we just don't count it as proof he is above Edel because, well, he explicity isn't.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
I think that's why eventually decided not to count Perfect Vision for Ikki, especially since it worked (kind of) on someone who was explicitly more skilled than he is.
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Should it not have worked?
 
If I recall (which I totally might not) the animation implies it was strictly swordsmanship.

That aside, Gaston, Flynn, Nozomi, and Toki perform the feat against YHVH with spearmanship and marital arts, swordsmanship, gunplay, and assassination skill (respectively), and Nanashi can learn most of their abilities if I remember right.

Even after doing that, Nanashi is still rivaled by Diamond Realm Kazuya and Aleph, who have none of his hax and rely solely on swordsmanship and gunplay (respectively)
 
After reading through Hayato's skill feats and the ones he upscales from I also started being confused as to why Ikki and Edel beat him. Many of the characters in 2 and 3 seem like they'd be at least a match for them.

I also haven't really heard a solid reasoning for Fugil being above them either.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
I also haven't really heard a solid reasoning for Fugil being above them either.
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Pretty much because both Earl and Baki said that my arguments were weak and that Fugil's feats were worth more than I put them as. IIrc, the skill battle with Hayato ended with a draw or something.
 
@Creaturemaster

Hayato can't even compare to Ikki. Half of the stuff Ikki does would be considered impossible by any means to Hayato.

About Fugil yes. Hayato did win in a skill debate but i feel like Fugil is worth more. Since his skill feats look something that's more on Ikki's level. With logic breaking stuff rather than being as down to earth as Hayato and Yujiro.
 
Creaturemaster971 said:
If I recall (which I totally might not) the animation implies it was strictly swordsmanship.
That aside, Gaston, Flynn, Nozomi, and Toki perform the feat against YHVH with spearmanship and marital arts, swordsmanship, gunplay, and assassination skill (respectively), and Nanashi can learn most of their abilities if I remember right.

Even after doing that, Nanashi is still rivaled by Diamond Realm Kazuya and Aleph, who have none of his hax and rely solely on swordsmanship and gunplay (respectively)
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That's ******* awesome, he definitely deserves at least top 10.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Like what?
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Literally look at Ikki's blog (which im gonna add some more feats at some point, since currently the blog peaks at volume 9 which means 3 more volumes worth of feats) and look at random feat. That feat is beyond Hayato's capabilities.
 
Look your point is plainly wrong. You don't just assign what is and isn't a power when the canon goes out of it's way to say it is not a power it is just hard work and even goes out of it's way to give a 3 paragraph explanation for why this is skill and how it works.
 
Spooky looks like the kind of guy who thinks resistance to mindhax stops social influencing, because supernatural stuff and absurdly exaggerated natural stuff apparently are basically the same.
 
It's the job of a guy who says it's skill to explain it's skill my friend. Not the other way around. Powers are developed through hard work, but the skill is usage, not possessing the shit in the first place. I see the usage, just I don't see it to be as impressive as people make it to be.

@Ion

Completely different cases, and no I don't believe that, gotta heavily admit we just give a free pass for anything to call "skill". This point makes no sense
 
Well I know what I was signing up for. It's a controversial topic and I disagree with some stuff so I'm making first steps, though I'm not getting any further later, as I have as for now no will to debate with many people at once (Sunlight will probably help me after the forum move). It's the problem of other people if they start getting upset because someone wants to discuss it in a respectful way and wants some explanations.
 
I mean, yes, anything can get called skill. Fate Sword Saints cutting possibilities and attacking 2-As is considered part of their sword skill. It makes no sense, but that's the kind of things we need to figure out how to deal with.
 
Honestly there are SO many fields of "skill". It's more impressive for a mere human to do something impressive than for a god or superhero to do something impressive. We also need to consider that.
 
@Spooky That's why I personally like the threads where all other stats are equalized and we see who would win then.

Though it often gets difficult when the skill feats are shown, not told. Like in most superhero stuff, which is why I feel bad for Cal having to argue for Marvel skillbois. Or why it took months to put together my skill explanations for John Carter, years for Katanagatari, and why it's gonna be difficult to do it for the Reaper.
 
SpookyShadow said:
It's the job of a guy who says it's skill to explain it's skill my friend. Not the other way around. Powers are developed through hard work, but the skill is usage, not possessing the shit in the first place. I see the usage, just I don't see it to be as impressive as people make it to be.
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From this i know that you literally have not even read the feats. As i said they literally use 3 paragraphs to explain why it is skill but your argument just goes like "it's ability" without anything to back it up.

We do not count stuff just cus it says "lol skill" same as how we don't count stuff from fate going like "6-C harmed a 2-A via skill" or "is so skilled he gained magic". That doesn't even bother explaining why it is skill. The same does not happen with Ikki's feats which you would have realized if you had read them.
 
I still haven't read much further into Bahamut since last year so I can't vouch for Fugil in that regard. Does he get explanations for his skill? I was starting to worry that he just kinds treads into power-copying and stuff but it says "no its really skill guys"
 
Does anyone know Vash feats? O where i can find them, i mean, his profile has some feats, but these are all of them?
 
From what I see it's certainly easier to debate when feats are shown, not told... Like the bullet cutting feat, literally the same as most bullet cutting feats I have seen in other series, for example this, but told in a much more precise way making it seem more impressive. Does Ikki's feat seem more impressive? Well probably, because of the details in writing. Some feats such as doubling his strength or having awarness of the area, it already is an ability (and I don't exactly see why are his senses listed as skill on his profile). I'm telling that, while maybe I was wrong about telling everything is a supernatural ability (though the stuff is supernatural obviously), but some shit really isn't much different from what we see in other series that we still do not call "skill". Anyways, this is the only reason why I do not have much will to debate this in the first place, since comparing TOLD and SHOWN feats makes mostly no sense and is hard as hell for the other side, because we can't exactly visualize stuff and in the other case we see it but don't have any details on what a person is doing.

He is really good at body control though...
 
I know a character that can hit the same 1 inch size target ten times in a row, from ten thousand kms away, but i don't know how that compare to Vash feats.
 
@Spooky

No don't even go there, there is a difference between being shown something and being told something, but it's not a weakness of the medium if they don't explain the feats. RoR Sasaki is a manga, so we see his feats, but we still get explanations, details, information of what he is doing exactly. Saying "my verse lacks explanations because it's not a light novel" is not an excuse, unless your show lacks any form of subtitles, descriptions or words from characters. If the authors want to show something they will find ways to explain it.

And he's good at a lot of other stuff. One of the best skill based precogs on the site, ability copy, swordmastery, info analysis and a bunch of others. The only area he's lacking in is precision shooting cus well he's a swordsman, he has like 2 shooting feats in the entire series. Everything else is top notch. His body control is pretty stupid though yeah.

As for his senses, it's due to the fact that he doesn't just have good eyesight via being well....good (like how a machine would). It's stuff he achieved through training. If he's good enough to pinpoint with complete accuracy the exact location of a person based on how the noise bounces off of his body, why would i not call that skill?
 
Katanagatari strikes a very weird balance between show and tell. All the skill stuff is shown, with just enough dialogue to explain how it works, but no attention is drawn to skill level being impressive. If it had just slightly less dialogue to say otherwise, it would veer dangerously close to being unquantifiable.
 
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