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Since Cal did mention him I think John Wick does deserve an honorable mention here just due to how realistic his gun feats are.
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Skill Wars: A New Skill
- Thread starter BakiHanma18
- Start date
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Well realistic doesn't really make him more skilled. Im fine if we just list him there, but he's just a decent human, nothing too crazy.
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Of course but that's what makes him skilled, obviously not Ikki inhuman skilled but like a real human type of skilled. My step dad who's an ex Navy SEAL and I were watching John Wick and he was actually very surprised at a lot of a gun work in the movie.
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Don't act like Ion's not a Rakudai supporter. If you got like, Weekly to admit that Ikki deserves to be at the top you'd have a point.
No, that's not he point you were making. You were arguing quantity. What you implied was that Ikki has as many skill feats as Kirby and Ajimu has powers, which is complete bull and I called the bluff, for lack of a better term. Just put your money where you mouth is and actually show feats then. Ikki's two best shown feats are his arrow barrage dodging and his blinded bullet dodging. Prove this wrong. If Ikki is as skilled as you say, prove this wrong. What got him to the top was his precognition, which is skill to some extent if it's like, baiting a left hook, but shit like predicting an entire fight isn't.
Oh, you mean just like how it takes a ton of skill to catch Cap'a shield? I mean, if it was as easy as you're implying, why haven't more people done it? Why does he still throw it at all? And if he so skilled and proficient in other things, list the quote that says he's mastered all martial arts and all weapons like Fugil or Yujiro. Not adept. Mastered.
Yes. "From Black Lagoon to John Wick" wasn't me listing a range of gunslinging series. It was me saying John Wick was as skilled as the top 5. Also, you're right. Ikki's so unique. Marvel charscters could never account for someone with Ikki's repertoire.
No, that's not he point you were making. You were arguing quantity. What you implied was that Ikki has as many skill feats as Kirby and Ajimu has powers, which is complete bull and I called the bluff, for lack of a better term. Just put your money where you mouth is and actually show feats then. Ikki's two best shown feats are his arrow barrage dodging and his blinded bullet dodging. Prove this wrong. If Ikki is as skilled as you say, prove this wrong. What got him to the top was his precognition, which is skill to some extent if it's like, baiting a left hook, but shit like predicting an entire fight isn't.
Oh, you mean just like how it takes a ton of skill to catch Cap'a shield? I mean, if it was as easy as you're implying, why haven't more people done it? Why does he still throw it at all? And if he so skilled and proficient in other things, list the quote that says he's mastered all martial arts and all weapons like Fugil or Yujiro. Not adept. Mastered.
Yes. "From Black Lagoon to John Wick" wasn't me listing a range of gunslinging series. It was me saying John Wick was as skilled as the top 5. Also, you're right. Ikki's so unique. Marvel charscters could never account for someone with Ikki's repertoire.
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Cal...your arguments are getting bad. He supports Bahamut more than Rakudai. And after the thread Ikki vs Fugil was made, Ion conceded after some arguing that Ikki was more skilled. If what your claiming is true, ikki vs Fugil would have never been a debate because "muh rakudai supporter".
Ikki has a ton of skills, doesn't mean they don't have quality though. I said "ikki has quite a ton of skills so i dislike to name all of his feats one by one and instead i prefer answering the opponent's arguments". Don't take things out of context. I meant "quantity" as me being lazy to list them and "quality" as a means of him outskilling others.
You actually gotta prove why Cap's sword is hard to catch. Once an object leaves your hand, you lose all control over it. There's no skill coming into play, anything can happen: deflect, grab, outright negate etc. Don't tell me "why hasn't Cap's shield been grabbed by random thugs?" prove me why someone on Ikki's level won't just neg it. Also it's pretty nice of you to bring that up when "mastering" is below "perfection" which is what Ikki does to any style he sees. So many sword styles alone that people didn't believe existed, and were instead forgotten in documents or outright not even taught/lacked a dojo to begin with. Ouma Kurogane has mastered the kurogane style, Ikki has perfected it though. And also extra funny you bring up Yujiro when literally 99% of what he has learned is useless and almost never finds use in combat, the only thing he knows which is actually decent and will provide its use is Xiao Lee, wheras most of the other martial arts are things he does just to taunt others, completely useless in a fight against an equally or more skilled opponent. Whereas Ikki's sword styles are all useful (at least the ones he has shown), it doesn't stop at 1 sword style whereas the rest is there just for numbers. Sorry cal, not all martial arts are that good, flawed point.
What did listing those guys mean? I don't get it?
And again, you can take this to a separate thread, same as how Ion did to Ikki vs Fugil.
Ikki has a ton of skills, doesn't mean they don't have quality though. I said "ikki has quite a ton of skills so i dislike to name all of his feats one by one and instead i prefer answering the opponent's arguments". Don't take things out of context. I meant "quantity" as me being lazy to list them and "quality" as a means of him outskilling others.
You actually gotta prove why Cap's sword is hard to catch. Once an object leaves your hand, you lose all control over it. There's no skill coming into play, anything can happen: deflect, grab, outright negate etc. Don't tell me "why hasn't Cap's shield been grabbed by random thugs?" prove me why someone on Ikki's level won't just neg it. Also it's pretty nice of you to bring that up when "mastering" is below "perfection" which is what Ikki does to any style he sees. So many sword styles alone that people didn't believe existed, and were instead forgotten in documents or outright not even taught/lacked a dojo to begin with. Ouma Kurogane has mastered the kurogane style, Ikki has perfected it though. And also extra funny you bring up Yujiro when literally 99% of what he has learned is useless and almost never finds use in combat, the only thing he knows which is actually decent and will provide its use is Xiao Lee, wheras most of the other martial arts are things he does just to taunt others, completely useless in a fight against an equally or more skilled opponent. Whereas Ikki's sword styles are all useful (at least the ones he has shown), it doesn't stop at 1 sword style whereas the rest is there just for numbers. Sorry cal, not all martial arts are that good, flawed point.
What did listing those guys mean? I don't get it?
And again, you can take this to a separate thread, same as how Ion did to Ikki vs Fugil.
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This is false. His entire Mixed Martial Art style is comprised of all the martial arts he's learned via copying and his natural brute strength. He's even taken pre-existing moves, made them better, and adopted them as his own, a version of the move that no other can use for lack of strength, knowledge, skill, or physical biologyFirephoenixearl said:
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Fair enough. Not my point though. I mean when did Yujiro, in a serious fight, start using boxing? Or Karate? Or Wing Chun?BakiHanma18 said:
He doesn't, he's so skilled those aren't even that useful to him as he has much better techniques to use.
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I can't say for sure, as it's not abundantly clear, and it's implied that in every single fight, he's using all styles simultaneously in the best order to achieve optimal results, but I do agree that even while strung together, basic martial arts usually don't compare to his personal techniques
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Pretty much my point on why "knowing all martial arts" isn't all that great of a skill feat. A ton of martial arts are for meditating purposes, completely non combat applicable, some are just bad for combat, whereas others are plain make believe, with only a handful of styles actually being good enough to be used on this level.
And @Cal the things ikki copies vastly outskill any man made style. Considering how he has stuff like trackless step, ten i muhou, edelweiss sword style and much more. Comparing those to your average styles which consist of throwing punches with a stance isn't gonna cut it.
Especially when ikki will just be able to copy anything taskmaster or cap do in terms of martial arts mid combat and perfect it, becoming plain better.
And @Cal the things ikki copies vastly outskill any man made style. Considering how he has stuff like trackless step, ten i muhou, edelweiss sword style and much more. Comparing those to your average styles which consist of throwing punches with a stance isn't gonna cut it.
Especially when ikki will just be able to copy anything taskmaster or cap do in terms of martial arts mid combat and perfect it, becoming plain better.
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Just because Rakudai says perfecting trumps mastering doesn't mans every other series has to abide by the same rules. Mastering and perfecting are one in the same in most other series.
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I do agree with Cal though.
Just pure prediction feats is damn bullshit excuse to use as a skill feat.
Just pure prediction feats is damn bullshit excuse to use as a skill feat.
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No...perfecting and mastering isn't the same even in ordinary use. Mastering something is "learning everything there is to know about something and becoming proficient", perfecting is "every style no matter how good has flaws, perfecting is mastering this style and taking it a step further making it much better than the original".The real cal howard said:
Mastering is becoming a master at a certain thing.
Perfecting is improving that certain thing to unknown limits. In Ikki's case after learning the principle of a style, he perfects the style and it gets so much better it eclipses the previous style in both offense and defense.
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Im pretty sure i've stated several times that ikki does a LOT more than just precog. However i am just debating cal on the "throwing shit well is as good of a skill as you can get" and "mastering all martial arts is actually relevant in the top 5".LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Never have I once seen perfecting and mastering be used in a separate context. You're arguing semantics right now, using the literal definition of the word.
Also NLF. As you need to prove that Ikki can replicate the feats done by those two. That's like if I said Kirby can copy Galactus and use more skills than him because that's what he does in his natural series. Ikki still has yet to show half as good dexterity feats as them. You keep on arguing logic and themes. Just put your money where your mouth is and show Ikki's skill feats, or hell, people he scales above, and we'll see if it's worth topping the list.
Also NLF. As you need to prove that Ikki can replicate the feats done by those two. That's like if I said Kirby can copy Galactus and use more skills than him because that's what he does in his natural series. Ikki still has yet to show half as good dexterity feats as them. You keep on arguing logic and themes. Just put your money where your mouth is and show Ikki's skill feats, or hell, people he scales above, and we'll see if it's worth topping the list.
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Did I literally say anything about Ikki, Earl? I get that people are pushing you on this stuff a lot, but I was talking in a general sense.
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Not semantics, what you're doing is "well perfecting is better so let's just not assume that". It's not a small difference. Mastering is becoming good at something, perfecting is making something as good as it can get. There is a MAJOR difference between "improving yourself" and "improving the style itself".
Show me the best martial art technique these guys have shown, im legit curious, then we debate on whether it's NLF or not. How about that?
@Sir
You didn't but Cal did. You agreed with him, so it seemed pretty safe to assume you meant the same.
Cal said that thing about Ikki being first because of prediction, which isn't true. If you didn't mean to agree with the context, just with the statement in general then i apologize.
Show me the best martial art technique these guys have shown, im legit curious, then we debate on whether it's NLF or not. How about that?
@Sir
You didn't but Cal did. You agreed with him, so it seemed pretty safe to assume you meant the same.
Cal said that thing about Ikki being first because of prediction, which isn't true. If you didn't mean to agree with the context, just with the statement in general then i apologize.
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Also the reason I brought up those characters was because you were saying that they could never account for someone like Ikki, completely ignoring the fact that this is Marvel and these characters, and Cap specifically, have gone up against shit like Galactus and the goddamn Infinity Gauntlet and saying they couldn't prepare for a teenage boy with a sword and a lot of skill is absurd.
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Not. A. Quantifiable. Skill. Feat.The real cal howard said:
You don't see me saying "Ikki for first because he could keep up with Edelweiss, is stronger than a girl which passively copies shit, and can hold his own against a girl BFR outside of the 4 dimensions". It's just canon, just plot, not skill. How he can keep up with those, the exact techniques, is what can be used though.
Otherwise we'll have the SCP guy for 1st via using a sword to beat a multiversal army of low godly and a ton of other hax.
@Baki
Make the next thread already, 500 msgs here.
NEW THREAD
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You're the one who literally said that they couldn't account for Ikki when that couldn't be farther from the truth, making it sound like Ikki's so unique and special that it's impossible to get a read on the guy and land a hit. I'm not the one who implied that. You were.
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Its alright. And my only point is that simply prediction is prediction. It is more or less useless, and what actually matters is the degree to which you can employ the information of prediction in actual combat. Otherwise, we would need to discard all these little ***** and find some dude that predicted the entire behavior of nations for decades and centuries ahead in a single day or something.
Sasaki is so high in the first place because of how thorough his analysis is and the fact that he can use that information to overcome an utter stomp of a speed and power difference. That's the kinda shit that has worth to me.
In that sense, I kind of see Blade Steal as a way, way more impressive feat for Ikki than Perfect Vision.
Sasaki is so high in the first place because of how thorough his analysis is and the fact that he can use that information to overcome an utter stomp of a speed and power difference. That's the kinda shit that has worth to me.
In that sense, I kind of see Blade Steal as a way, way more impressive feat for Ikki than Perfect Vision.
