Skill Wars: Return of the Skill List

[Moritzva]

Also @Mori.
What's the appeal of Overlord? Ive heard what it's about and I tried watching and reading it but couldn't make it very far because it just didn't seem as interesting as everyone was making it out to be

Light Novels, for one, are a million times better.

The matter is that it's a more complex story and, by the author's own admission in the Author's Notes of... Volume 6, I believe, he's attempted to parodize elements of Isekai protagonists.

It delves into a multi-faceted world with unique and interesting developments, an environment full of characters from various backgrounds, and the constantly back-and-forth struggles of Ainz trying to make sure nobody realizes he has absolutely no ******* clue what he's doing and 99% of his Guardians are smarter than he is.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I definitely understood the parody aspect. My only issue was that it seemed like pretending to be smarter and more formidable than he is was Ainz's only character trait with not much else to him aside from that. Plus the fact that by its very nature it seemed like a very slow-paced series, which is certainly understandable given the circumstances, but didn't necessarily appeal to me or do any favors for how I felt about Ainz as a character

 

[Moritzva]

I definitely understood the parody aspect. My only issue was that it seemed like pretending to be smarter and more formidable than he is was Ainz's only character trait with not much else to him aside from that. Plus the fact that by its very nature it seemed like a very slow-paced series, which is certainly understandable given the circumstances, but didn't necessarily appeal to me or do any favors for how I felt about Ainz as a character

It certainly is a slower series, so I can completely understand that, although I feel as if Ainz certainly is delved into better in the light novel as you get far better narration for his choices. Furthermore, while he is the 'main' character, there are a plethora of forces and chapters in the light novel that, if taken out of context, can easily paint Climb, Gazef, Nfirea, or Evileye as the protagonist and Ainz as the antagonist.

Well, because in a sense, he is.

For all the worshipping characters give Ainz in typical isekai fashion, it's often taken to an utter religious extreme, and the author makes no mistake in showing that Ainz is definitely-100% the villain for the stories of more than half of the cast.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I thought the most interesting thing about the series was his slow regression into the mentality of an actual villain, and I hope that he actually ends up as an outright antagonist.

My money is on Touch Me or one of the new world residents being the new protagonist if that happens.

As far as my enjoyment, I'm also just not much of a hax guy. I prefer physical fights to magic fights, and I like powers that have to or can be used creatively in order to win. Or even better, minimal power compensated for by skill, intelligence, and determination. Even the overpowered characters I like are people who fight physically and/or can win in very interesting ways (e.g. Alucard and Dante)

 

[Moritzva]

It's a good thing that most of the fights in the series end up around magical blasting, as Ainz doesn't fight too often.

Battle against Shalltear was fun, too.

(Have you watched the anime so far? Fairly sure he is, like, 100% a villainous character by Season 3, or Volume 6. Dude's Evil with a capital E.)

 

[Creaturemaster971]

No I only saw a bit of season 1, and then tried reading the first few chapters. Admittedly, I ruled it out too quickly, but nothing I've heard about it since then has particularly hooked me again.

 

[Moritzva]

I admit, it can definitely run on for a while, but I personally found it to be an incredible endeavor. Very few of the battles are haxbattles, especially past the first few volumes.

 

[Tdtd1234]

So far nobody has provided any concrete feats for why perfect vision is superior to other forms of precognition, with the only defence being "identity", but if ikki truly perfectly understood someone's identity he should be able to do a lot more than see few moves ahead.

It sounds like the feats contradict the statements.

Any time there is a skill debate the argument for ikki is "understands identity" while the actual feats are conveniently ignored.

Forget first place ikki shoudn't be in the top 3.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Ikki has been removed, but Edel remains due to the "one per verse" rule. That said, this argument might affect her placement, so it's best if we wait for a rebuttal

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Sike, another Ikki debate, with arguments i've heard before.

Ok Tdtd, how about we flip the sides on this. How about i ask you, what makes other precog better than Perfect Vision?

And understanding someone's identity gives exactly that, the ability to predict whatever someone will be able to do in certain situations. The rest is understanding someone's powerset etc etc, not identity. But Ikki did predict use of powers he did not know existed so eh.

As for "why can he interact", that's so stupid i cannot even begin to wrap my head around it. It's like saying "how can Goku being universal interact with Kiki?". Or literally any other case, there's always interaction for plot reasons, that argument can be made to literally turn 90% in this wiki to 10-B.

 

[Tdtd1234]

Sike, another Ikki debate, with arguments i've heard before.
Ok Tdtd, how about we flip the sides on this. How about i ask you, what makes other precog better than Perfect Vision?

Depends on the precog some see further, others can be used instantly, others can predict attacks from other dimentions ect.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Depends on the precog some see further, others can be used instantly, others can predict attacks from other dimentions ect.

>Can be used instantly

It takes like 2 clashes for Ikki, but he has predicted an entire fight before it had even started before so yeah.

>Some See further

Sure, fair enough, prove they're as reliable as Ikki, which was specifically stated to be unfoolable. Mind reading has been fooled in rakudai, this has not. So yeah, prove those which see further cannot be fooled.

>Predict attacks from other dimensions

Bhahahaha, and you say "how is it possible" to understand someone's identity, then you hit me with this stuff? My god, you can't have your cake and eat it too. But predicting an attack from another dimension first needs an explanation for how it works, second depending on how it works is not that impressive. Third is situational as ****. Fourth how far/how many moves ahead can it read?

And Ikki's prediction works on people who are literally Ikki++++ in terms of skill (massively above him, the example would be Edel), so that's another thing you gotta prove).

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Just as an fyi, if Perfect Vision is as infallible as you say, Ikki should never have any issues interacting with anyone else, which is very clearly not the case.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Just as an fyi, if Perfect Vision is as infallible as you say, Ikki should never have any issues interacting with anyone else, which is very clearly not the case.

Any examples of "issues when interacting"?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Him not instantly figuring out everything about Stella and how she feels about him

Every time he doesn't dissuade a bunch of randos from trying to fight him despite that being the opposite of what he wants

and god knows how many more instances.

 

[Tdtd1234]

>It takes like 2 clashes for Ikki, but he has predicted an entire fight before it had even started before so yeah.

In the feats you provided that wasn't the case. Show me where he does it.

>Sure, fair enough, prove they're as reliable as Ikki, which was specifically stated to be unfoolable. Mind reading has been fooled in rakudai, this has not. So yeah, prove those which see further cannot be fooled.

Perfect vision is only so reliable after enough time has passed or ikki knows his opponent beforehand.

>Bhahahaha, and you say "how is it possible" to understand someone's identity, then you hit me with this stuff? My god, you can't have your cake and eat it too. But predicting an attack from another dimension first needs an explanation for how it works, second depending on how it works is not that impressive. Third is situational as ****. Fourth how far/how many moves ahead can it read?

It was hax precognition, but so is perfect vision.

>And Ikki's prediction works on people who are literally Ikki++++ in terms of skill (massively above him, the example would be Edel), so that's another thing you gotta prove).

Edel is only above him when it comes to tricks i'm sure shy doesn't have perfect vision.

 

[First_Witch]

And another round, sigh

 

[BakiHanma18]

And another round, sigh

Welcome back to this

 

[First_Witch]

Thanks for the nice words but i was never gone from this.


Just ignored the ususl shenanigens here

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ah, now that you're here, First, any thoughts on John Carter vs Pray?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm? An example, against Edelweiss i guess. Perfect Vision kicked in start to mid fight. And that fight lasted less than 1 minute whole. So in less than about 10 seconds? He did the same against Kuraudo, it was just a bunch of clashes in the long range, and perfect vision had already kicked in.

Not really, it is always as reliable. When is it not reliable?

Bringing hax precognition into this, like not "predicting the future" but actually "seeing the future". Are we that desperate to dethrone ikki here? Let's get Oracle here then for infinite possibilities precog.

 

[First_Witch]

Whos john carter

 

[Tdtd1234]

>Not really, it is always as reliable. When is it not reliable?

Against Edelweiss ikki was only able to predict 3 moves ahead instead of knowing everything about her. That was the point I was making. Were you arguing without paying attention to the discution?

>Bringing hax precognition into this, like not "predicting the future" but actually "seeing the future". Are we that desperate to dethrone ikki here? Let's get Oracle here then for infinite possibilities precog.

Is Ki based prekog allowed, what about instinct based?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not knowing everything about her? What exactly do you understand with "knowing everything"?

Instinct based, sure, as long as it is actual analytical prediction. About Ki based, i'd say not under normal circumstances, otherwise i would use magic skill for ikki. But if the verse has Ki in weird forms like how Kenichi uses it sometimes for flow of blood, other times for electric signals, which are natural things, then it could be made as an exeption. Ki in the form of Goku launches ki balls or Satomi death haxing people is not part of this exception though.

 

[Tdtd1234]

>Not knowing everything about her? What exactly do you understand with "knowing everything"?

Her favorite food her age what she likes and dislikes you know her "identity".

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That wouldn't be knowing her identity it would be knowing her preferences. Knowing someone's identity means "knowing how someone acts". Basically an on crack version of "if i were in his place". But it works even against abilities he does not know like how he dodged rains of arrows and giant arrow despite them never having been used against Ikki, he still predicted them.

And his identity reading is strictly for combat, how someone moves doesn't show you how sweet he likes his coffee.

 

[Tdtd1234]

Then it's not different from other precogs. In fact there are many better ones.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It is different for reasons i posted above. Prove it's infaillable, prove other precog work against MUCH skilled people.

Anyway you still failed to show me what makes other precog better. Other than seeing further which as i proved doesn't inherently make it better, as Perfect Vision has other advantages.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Whos john carter

i did a skill essay on him a couple conversations ago, just ctrl+f and youll get it

 

[Tdtd1234]

>prove other precog work against MUCH skilled people.

Okay in saber vs assassin saber dodged an attack she didn't know exsisted that was done by a more skilled fighter and while her and while she did it with her hax instinct sasaki is above her and doesn't have instinct.

>Anyway you still failed to show me what makes other precog better. Other than seeing further which as i proved doesn't inherently make it better, as Perfect Vision has other advantages.

I debunked most of the advantages and seeing further is definetly better.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Being above her, doesn't mean he's better than her in precog. So bad point.

You debunked them? Like the unfoolability? Where?

Also ikki has precoged how a fight would go before it had even started.

 

[Ionliosite]

In the first point you just said that he should show a precog that works on much skilled people, and he did, you never said anything about being better at precog than the other Earl.

 

[Tdtd1234]

>Being above her, doesn't mean he's better than her in precog. So bad point.

Okay in Fate route it's stated berserker has instinct(not supernatural) similar to sabers and his eye of the mind is only B while Assassin has it at rank A.

>Also ikki has precoged how a fight would go before it had even started.

Every move or just the winner? Did he know the combatants before the fight?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why would that scale to precog?

Every move, like step by step, in a game of chess kind of thing. He had chatted with the combatant before, but never fought.

 

[Tdtd1234]

>Why would that scale to precog?

His precog skill "eye of the mind" is comparable to sabers precog skill "instinct", and assassin has an even higher rank of "eye of the mind" - it's the same skill only even better.

>Every move, like step by step, in a game of chess kind of thing. He had chatted with the combatant before, but never fought.

Actualy it makes sense if the fight isn't too long and the fighters aren't too unpredictable he is simply predicting the moves of both fighters. Didn't sasaki(ragnarok) do something similar where he defeated opponents who previosly outskilled him in his head - imagining the whole battle.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Eye of the mind? Is that an ability?

What sasaki did iirc, is just imagine how the fight could have gone. Which is honesly no different from how you replay arguments you lost in your head during shower.

 

[Tdtd1234]

More accurately it's the skills they had when they were alive represented as a single ability so it would fit on a skill sheet.

Sasaki can predict thousands of moves ahead i'm sure the fight was accurate.

 

[BakiHanma18]

>Why would that scale to precog?
His precog skill "eye of the mind" is comparable to sabers precog skill "instinct", and assassin has an even higher rank of "eye of the mind" - it's the same skill only even better.

>Every move, like step by step, in a game of chess kind of thing. He had chatted with the combatant before, but never fought.

Actualy it makes sense if the fight isn't too long and the fighters aren't too unpredictable he is simply predicting the moves of both fighters. Didn't sasaki(ragnarok) do something similar where he defeated opponents who previosly outskilled him in his head - imagining the whole battle.

Did... did you just like your own comment?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

We can do that?

 

[BakiHanma18]

We can do that?

Well, we ca, it's just... kinda... sad. Like "I need it to look like someone agrees with me, so I'm going to like my own comment". I dunno, maybe I'm being an asshole