Skill Wars: Return of the Skill List

[Hl3_or_bust]

Ask yourself that. You are the one who said that h u m a Li Shuwen vs Red Hare was a 6-C vs 6-C when literally everything about it shows otherwise.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I will be posting Yujiro's feats to cement his placement one at a time, so each can be addressed with full attention

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Just as an fyi, Yujiro isn't even remotely comparable even to pre-Zero Musashi

He should probably be a good bit lower imho

 

[Ionliosite]

because I want to hurt myself

Suigetsu Munenori Yagyu for #1

He's repeatedly shown to be significantly more skilled than the other Sword Saints, whose full power states ended up with their martial skill transcending space and time. If you want to say that's hyperbole or flowery language, well for one it objectively isn't as far as the wiki cares because they got new keys for that exchange, and secondly there are way more supporting feats.

Sword Saints are constantly shown to be the absolute most skilled fighters in the entirety of Nasuverse, having infinite skill and completely transcending the realms of human and divine possibility, putting them absurdly far above people like:

Then I will try to argue againts that.

The trascending space-time with skill is like cutting concepts with skill, it actually makes no sense, pretty sure we don't use those or I could say "Fugil is superior to everyone because his skill was stated to be higher dimensional".

• Harming Buddha means that he can fight people stonger than himself, actually, wouldn't that make him 2-A if he was capable of harming him?
• Same as above
• So he can fight at dissaventage in power and his opponent knowing his weaknesses? I won't say it's not impressive, but I know other characters who can do the same thing
• Pretty sure that he being an older human don't make the feat more impressive, but I guess it could be impressive if you could tell me which feats does Hozoin have aside from fighting Buddha.
• Then he is superior to Li, which are Li feats?
• That is a skill feat, but everyone and their mother in Top 5 have mastered every kind of weapon, so not really that impressive if you want 1st spot.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ask yourself that. You are the one who said that h u m a Li Shuwen vs Red Hare was a 6-C vs 6-C when literally everything about it shows otherwise.

I never lied, you just did not explain. You said X vs Y, without explaining which tiers so yeah.

 

[KGiffoni]

Just as an fyi, Yujiro isn't even remotely comparable even to pre-Zero Musashi

He should probably be a good bit lower imho

Y'know, saying stuff like that without anything to support it is kinda counterintuitive

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

We don't use conceptual feats. That definitely isn't conceptual as far as I am aware. I'll admit that it doesn't make much sense, but it can't just be totally disregarded. Also, they didn't transcend time and space, it was their skill that was stated to have transcended time and space.

• No because that would make every Servant 2-A with immeasurable speed and make Ant delet the verse from real life I don't know about the mechanics myself, but its probably just that he can harm them as well as he can harm people who are, say, 6-C like himself.
• e. Karna also has a shitton of Authority-based powers so he can just tank most stuff, which kinda dampens it on his end but meh
• Fair. Its just that doing such a thing in Nasuverse is extremely impressive, at least in-universe, due to all of the hax going around
• Well a 140 something year old normal human fighting a 6-C Servant and not getting instantly pasted is more than impressive to say the least, much less Red Hare who has mastered every combat style that exists. Hozion also has his eleven styles, which allow him to cope with, match, and battle any foe, even those more powerful, faster, or even outright more skilled than himself. Pre-Zero Musashi also stated that she wouldn't have been able to beat him as Lancer Purgatario had his skills not been dulled.
• Li did the Red Hare thing as already stated. Even as a Lancer without any weapons, he completely memed on Beowulf who was vastly stronger than him. His chi control also allows him to sneak up on and kill Servants without them being aware of him, even as a normal human, and he was supposedly able to kill any foe with a single strike. Okada also has the potential to become a Sword Saint if he became serious about training, which he won't just as an fyi, and was able to perfectly copy any sword style he sees as long as it isn't outright supernatural, like with Tsubame Gaeshi.
• I am aware, and kinda forgot that Red Hare had this but better, but I felt that it was worth mentioning as a more conventional supporting feat.

@Earl

My bad then. Sorry about that

 

[John985]

About Karna

Rathi : A warrior capable of contending with 5,000 warriors simultaneously.

Atirathi: A warrior capable of contending with 12 Rathi class warriors or 60,000 warriors simultaneously, circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills.

Maharathi: A warrior capable of fighting 12 Atirathi class warriors or 720,000 warriors simultaneously, circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills

Atimaharathi: A warrior capable of fighting 12 Maharathi class warriors or 8,640,000 warriors simultaneously; circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills; expert in designing & destroying all strategies (vyuhas); able to fight against all illusions & win against opponents in such situations.

Atimaharathi

Karna-the son of the sun god Surya; king of Anga kingdom; he is equal to 14 Maharathis.

Nasuverse kinda referece the myth as well.

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, it could just be taken that they are superior to the other characters. Although, it could also be compared to cutting atoms/space with skill, pretty sure we don't accept them here either.

• I'll just take it as he can fight opponents stronger than himself, which is something a lot of characters in this list can do.
• So this is Kaku Kaioh again?The human was really just a normal human? It doesn't seem like it if he can fight againts Servants. Hozoin feats seems pretty good, copying, match and battle opponents stronger, faster and more skilled than himself its really good, I also know a character who can do the same thing and that's Lux
• So Li can fight againts opponents stronger then himself. Okada having the potential to become a Sword Saint isn't necessarily the best thing, for example, if I go to the school I could be the best student, but as I don't stuy then my grades are regular, the difference between being regular and being the best is not actually quantifable as we cannot measure how much you need to study to become the best student, his best feat is the one of copying any sword style he sees as you mentioned.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'll do some chain scaling for Sasaki in a minute.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

/shrug

• Its definitely above must instances of that found here, but that's probably accurate yeah
• a man of culture I see "Normal human" is kinda misleading. He was a human who didn't use weapons or magic, although his martial arts may have had Mystery iirc, but he was probably superhuman physically. Definitely not on the physical level of a Servant regardless. Lux cheats via whatever the hell Reload On Fire is
• yeah. The Lancer feat is significantly less impressive than human Li, but that's because he was summoned in the wrong class and therefore can't access most of his ability. I don't really get the school comparison tbh with you, but it should be noted that Okada has all of this skill as an Assassin, the class that isn't made for direct confrontations. This is important because, as seen with Lancer Li, being in an inappropriate class can **** you over badly.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Tbh the whole can harm 2-A via skill and can transcend time-space while still being 3D and 6-C seems very fishy. I could understand Musashi cus she had 2-A hax, but the rest seems fishy af.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Also who else agrees that Taskmaster needs to be removed from his spot and placed lower?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Me.

But when is everybody gonna give me the feats i asked for to give Hayato Furinji 2nd spot?

 

[Ionliosite]

• Ok, so he is not exactly a normal human, well, yes, it's kinda impressive. Reload on Fire don't copy techniques and in those instances he wasn't using Reload on Fire
• So he can fight with other battle styles despite not being specialized in that one? I'm pretty bad at analogies, so sorry if you didn't understand

I mean, some of these feats are extremely good, but I still don't see him topping the list.

 

[Ionliosite]

@Earl

Why do you think Hayato goes to 2nd place in first place?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Earl
Why do you think Hayato goes to 2nd place in first place?

Cus im pretty sure he has feats above everyone else. But since he has a bit...too many feats (or at least feats which he upscales from), im waiting for the arguments on those guys first.

If the arguments are in previous threads (which i know they are), just link it, idm.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

• As normal as someone who can fight a high-end Servant on even ground can be i guess
• wdym?

 

[Ionliosite]

@ Hl3

You said this "but it should be noted that Okada has all of this skill as an Assassin, the class that isn't made for direct confrontations. This is important because, as seen with Lancer Li, being in an inappropriate class can **** you over badly."

So he can fight doing things he is not specialized on or what?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

yeah

 

[KGiffoni]

Also who else agrees that Taskmaster needs to be removed from his spot and placed lower?

Me too.

 

[Ionliosite]

Call Cal Me too.

 

[KGiffoni]

About Karna
Rathi : A warrior capable of contending with 5,000 warriors simultaneously.

Atirathi: A warrior capable of contending with 12 Rathi class warriors or 60,000 warriors simultaneously, circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills.

Maharathi: A warrior capable of fighting 12 Atirathi class warriors or 720,000 warriors simultaneously, circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills

Atimaharathi: A warrior capable of fighting 12 Maharathi class warriors or 8,640,000 warriors simultaneously; circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills; expert in designing & destroying all strategies (vyuhas); able to fight against all illusions & win against opponents in such situations.

Atimaharathi

Karna-the son of the sun god Surya; king of Anga kingdom; he is equal to 14 Maharathis.

Nasuverse kinda referece the myth as well.

When the Nasuverse says "contending with 5000 warriors", is it saying it as in "i can defeat 5000 warriors simultaneously" or "i can outskill 5000 warriors simultaneously"?

And even then, what would be a "warrior" in this comparison exactly? The person with average fighting training? A master of his own martial techniques?

 

[Xulrev]

When the Nasuverse says "contending with 5000 warriors", is it saying it as in "i can defeat 5000 warriors simultaneously" or "i can outskill 5000 warriors simultaneously"?

The latter; beating 5000 warriors simultaneously through skill or various means

 

[Ionliosite]

More people make the feat better?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@Ion

Why exactly do you not see Yagyu topping the list? As far as I can tell, damn near everything he scales above by an effectively infinite amount is at the very least comparable to some of the best stuff on this list.

 

[KGiffoni]

When the Nasuverse says "contending with 5000 warriors", is it saying it as in "i can defeat 5000 warriors simultaneously" or "i can outskill 5000 warriors simultaneously"?

The latter; beating 5000 warriors simultaneously through skill or various means

And what exactly supports the fact it's the latter and not the former? I'd appreciate the context this is said.

 

[Xulrev]

And what exactly supports the fact it's the latter and not the former? I'd appreciate the context this is said.

The fact that nothing about skill is mentioned casually in the Nasuverse for these comparisons. Any presumption beyond 'can beat 5000 dudes' doesn't hold water

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No need to Call I showed up.

I already said I don't know Task that well and looked for the most skilled western character I could find out of sheer spite for Ikki, so...

Also all of your links are broken, @Counters.

 

[AstralKing7]

Bam definitely needs to be moved up

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Anyway, I'll assume that you've seen the majority of RoR Sasaki's stuff but I'll dive into more detail given the main focus was on his Thousand Image Defense.


For starters Sasaki based his fighting stlye around wildlife and various animals.

making his attacks harder to predict as opposed to normal swordsmanship.


Deflects Poseidon's AoE attacks while being at a massive strength and speed disadvantage.


Catches a falling jug of water, reversing it's path, catching it without spilling a single drop.


Causally weaves and evades Poseidon's attacks once again.

Fends off Poseidon's Flood Attack for a short amount of time, attacking Sasaki at every direction while being fast enough to blitz him.

Has fought against multiple extremely skilled Swordsma including his verses Yagyu his verses Sword Saint, and surpasses all of them. Surpasses everyone his Dojo his own Master while alive, after his death Sasaki skill increased to no ends.


Copies swordsmanship ever clashed against engraves it into his very soul. Has various sword techniques, ranging but not limited to Tsubame gaeshi Style Tiger's claw etc. He can also combine all of these techniques to perform deadly blows.


Now let's go into detail about his Thousand Image Defense, it was talked about but it was only focused on Poseidon.

Utilizes his Thousand Image Defense to predict all of Poseidon's moves

deflecting each strike while underwater

against an opponent who holds nearly every advantage against him.

Stated to be reading several thousands steps of his opponent by Ares.

Before his opponent could even move a muscle


Sasaki reads several steps ahead


viewing himself dying in 18 different ways.

Scans all of Creation, the Slight Trembles in the ground, the vibrations in the Air and even the enitre stage. Said stage is holding all of humanity to ever exist.

Deflects Poseidon's Divine Lightning, while also acting as another feat. Directly stated to have surpassed the limits of Humanity while reaching into the Realm of Gods.


Alright let's go to his chain scaling because the people he scales massively above actually have some pretty insane feats, especially Adam. I'll start off with Lu Bu & Thor.


Thor the strongest Norse War God and is the Vanguard for the Gods due to his strength and skill with his hammer. Thor isn't some stereotypical brute swinging around a hammer, no he puts his hammer to good use and has several solid feats.


For instance Thor single handily wiped out a massive army of 66 Jontunn by himself over the course of a night.

Thor is so skilled with his hammer that the weight of the impact isn't felt untill his Hammer finishes it's swing.

He also has some insane marksmanship with his hammer, he's never missed a single time. Said Hammer also has the ability to home in on it's opponent.

Thor's Hammer, one of Thor's strongest techniques makes him have to take an incredibly low stance, a stance that under all logic should be illogical but Thor ignores it and proceeds to unleash his attack despite the incredibly awkward position.


Thor was also able to ultimately humiliate Lu Bu even riding on Red Hare and humiliate all of his men with moderate ease.


Next up is Lu Bu, I'll update his section in a moment since at the moment a lot of his scans are missing from his RT so ill have to read it again to find them.


Over the course of his lifetime Lu Bu was a brutal Warrior, conquering everything in his way, men, animals you name it and Lu Bu has beaten it. Lu Bu has fought thousands of battles while he alive as a human and much like Sasaki Lu Bu was also stated to unparalleled under the heavens,to the point where Lu Bu willing let him be captured and executed since there was nobody that could hope to challenge him.


Avoids and dodges Thor's thrown Hammer which never missses it's mark.

Thor's Hammer change's it's direction and hurls towards Lu Bu, coming in from behind him but Lu Bu still manages to dodge despite getting attacked from his blind spot.


Next we'll move onto Adam and Zeus, this is where things are gonna get interesting mainly due to Adam. Adam has the unique ability to copy any ability, regardless of it's biological, supernatural or just straight up skill while also improving upon the orginal usage. I'll kick things off with a bang by covering Adam first.


Adam copies the Serpentine's moveset, gaining his own claws to slay the lizard man.


Adam also becomes faster than his opponent simply by copying their moves.


Copies Zeus's meteor Jab and humiliates him with it.


Copies Zeus's own Divine Axe and once again humiliates him with it.


Copies Zeus's own afterimage speed amp.


Almost kills Zeus in one blow with his own technique.


Adam doesn't only copy said abilities but outright improves upon them.


Adam does it again.


Adam can also dodge any technique that he sees or copies. Dodge's Zeus And again. And again. parries all of Zeus's attack while in his strongest form.

Adam can still fight evenly with Zeus despite being blind and no longer able to copy abilities.


Goes blow for blow with Zeus in his strongest form.


Even in death Adam can still fight effectively against Zeus in his strongest form.


Sasaki scales above Adam and the others to the point where it isn't even funny.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Bam definitely needs to be moved up

Explain why perhaps?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

No need to Call I showed up.

I already said I don't know Task that well and looked for the most skilled western character I could find out of sheer spite for Ikki, so...

Also all of your links are broken, @Counters.

I'll fix it but it's several scans of Cap whopping Tasky with minimal ease even while poisoned and a bunch of anti feats for Tasky and his major weakness of his opponent being unpredictable. He can't predict a lot of actions which is how Cap took advantage of it, he has trouble in dealing with things he's never dealt with before and him not being able to predict if the opponent is random and chaotic.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ugh when did Sasaki gain all those feats? But eh, im pretty sure Hayato outdoes them all. I may answer tomorrow though.

 

[Xulrev]

Sasaki has had all those feats, I linked them two(?) threads ago now ;_;

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Since forever it's just that everyone has been entirely focused on his Thousand Image Defense as opposed to his actual skill. Oh also he can completely halt acceleration and his TG has a fail safe where if the first attack if dodged the second one comes swinging from the opponents blind spot.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Something about his scaling chain. Why would he actually scale above those composite, instead of above each individual.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

None of them aside from Lu Bu have been stated to be unparalleled beneath the heavens and Lu Bu's main shtick is his brutish strength. Narration of the plot and statements place him above them all.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The only part that is relevant is that he scales above Adam in skill who is composite everyone else in skill but better. No matter who he fights in verse, Adam is always the more skilled and will only lose out due to a huge stat disadvantage or endurance (this is only of he needs to keep using his eyes all the time).

Now my question is where does it say he scales above Adam in skill? Been a while since I read their fights so I am pretty sure I forgot something.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Adman isn't stated to be unparalleled like how Sasaki was, the narrative strongly implies that Sasaki is the more skilled combatant between Adam and Sasaki and Brun herself even seems to further that by her statement. "if Adam can be considered the Ultimate Copier than Sasaki can be considered the ultimate scanner." implying that Thousand Image Defense is equal or greater to Eyes of The Lord. The context of Shuumatsu made it very clear that Sasaki is the most skilled fighter we've seen thus far.


Lu Bu's ultimate strength was ironically his own strength and brutality.


Adam's ultimate strength lied in his copying and his undying will.


Sasaki's was soley based on Evolution, skill and his unrivalled prediction.