Skill Wars: Return of the Skill List

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Unfortunately I really doubt any of that quite stacks up to anything Sasaki has done. I'm also very skeptical on the legitimacy of said prediction as a lot of those attacks are linear and aren't as varied as Poseidon's absolute AoE attacks. Even then "all possible attacks" makes it quite limited, they aren't throwing out thousands upon thousands of different moves like what Sasaki's Thousand Image Defense can do. Also no, Sasaki reading thousands steps ahead of his opponent isn't hyperbole, that's complete and total bull shit. In the beginning of the match Sasaki was able to see 18 different ways Poseidon was gonna kill him before any action was started, that's a causal feat for Sasaki utilizing it. Seems like to me your just getting desperate to have Hayato at number 2 despite nobody agreeing with you so far.


And no, Sasaki did indeed block all of them, stop pulling shit out your ass Mate. I know exactly what your doing here and trust me it's not gonna slide.


Also those AoE attacks simply pail in comparison to any of Poseidon's AoE attacks used against Sasaki.


I'm also gonna go ahead and ask you to post the actual scans rather than enitre chapters with no index, that'll make commenting on them much easier.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I actually saw all you had for the Elder and I have to say, that is not enough. Even considering the sort of stuff he scales above, and I know very well what he scales above of.

Some of those are not even very impressive? Fighting Apachai is just the usual "he scales above everyone stupidly" argument but applied to a single person, while the dodging and blocking bullets is not much of a big deal when a Kenichi that doesn't even scale to masters, that are below the Advanced Masters, that are still below the Elder, can see and react to the sonic booms caused by Sasaki fighting Hongo, so the Elder trivializing a ton of bullets isn't... a lot? Not only should he be far faster, someone stupidly below him has good enough senses to notice when and from where a bullet is about to be fired.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Post scans not chapters? Im giving you the scan on the chapter. You can read the rest for context, but the feat is on the page that is linked.

Huh? I gave you the chapters why "i really doubt". Why express opinion in face of scans?

Linear and not as varied? How are poseidon's move somehow better when he uses a spear to poke from different angles 98% of the time? Also these guys can even see grabs and throwing moves.

All possible moves are all possible moves. They specifically cannot make any more moves. Poseidon doesn't have more moves, he can just attack from different spots.

Nobody agreeing for Hayato? Well yes, cus i haven't shown any feats yet. Nobody agreed with ikki before, now he's number 1. Also why is "many thousand moves ahead" not a hyperbole? It was stated by a normal dude.

@Sir

Just link me the feats and let me do my work.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Ares is far from a normal dude, he's the Strongest War God of Greek Mythology, he's not a random dude he's a top tier fighter so that already shows how much knowledge you lack on the series.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ares is far from a normal dude, he's the Strongest War God of Greek Mythology, he's not a random dude he's a top tier fighter so that already shows how much knowledge you lack on the series.

Oh wow, i lack knowledge on a series i've never read. xD

Obviously, that's why you gotta explain stuff. But again why is the many thousand moves not a hyperbole when the best that was shown was 18?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

The best shown wasn't 18, that's the scan coming in the beginning of the fight, like way before Thousand Image Defense was even explained. There's no reason for it to be hyperbole whenever Sasaki's entire shtick was him being the ultimate Scanner. It's a statement coming from an extremely knowledgeable character such as Ares who's more than familiar with it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Being the ultimate scanner doesn't explain why "many thousand times" is not a hyperbole. He can be the ultimate scanner for seeing 50 or 100 moves ahead. Besides, that fight ended no? And it ended in less than "many thousand moves".

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You haven't actually explained why it's an hyperbole though...? You just believe that is. If all you have is argument from incredulity, is not gonna count for much.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Steps, not moves. Poseidon attacks Sasaki thousands of times from thousands of angels and Sasaki predicted all of them. As Lance said, it's not a hyperbole just because you think it is, especially since you yourself haven't proved it's a hyperbole.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Wdym? You don't prove the negative.

If i see some multiplier or number like "14 decillion moves ahead", doesn't mean i can go like "prove it's not legit".

That only works for things like 10 up to 100 (iirc even our multiplier feats say for anything above 100 you need to prove its legit).

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But it is stated by a knowledgeable character and this is meant to be Sasaki's ability taken to the absolute. You are just saying not to take it at face value because you don't think it's legit.

Shifting the burden of proof is not an argument. Multiplier feats are for things like power and speed....

 

[Xulrev]

Wdym? You don't prove the negative.
If i see some multiplier or number like "14 decillion moves ahead", doesn't mean i can go like "prove it's not legit".

That only works for things like 10 up to 100 (iirc even our multiplier feats say for anything above 100 you need to prove its legit).

It's not hyperbole. Ares has been a constant source of information on the fights for the series as a 'strong' deity.

Sasaki reacted to literally thousands upon thousands of attacks from Poseidon. He had to have read ahead for each of those moves. Thus, he is reading thousands of steps ahead.

You have to prove it's hyperbole when there is evidence given for the opposing side

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's not hyperbole. Ares has been a constant source of information on the fights for the series as a 'strong' deity.

Oh, that changes things. If he's constantly treated like a narrator, then...fine i guess. I can settle for that then.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

As for it not being thousands of strikes, have you... like, actually seen the Arena they are fighting on?

It's not small. It's not small at all. Despite this, Poseidon maintains a constant hemisphere made out of only the afterimages of his spear strikes. Try to think, in your head, how many spears you would need to put together, their shafts mostly horizontal to one another, to make a mostly closed hemisphere around an arena that big.

And he kept this up for a good while. That is a ludicrous amount of attacks.

 

[Xulrev]

@Earl

Yeah, Ares is literally the source for most of the verse's speed scaling since he explains the (second) fastest move in the series and tells people that only powerful gods (such as himself) would even be able to notice how fast Zeus was moving (a kick in 0.0000001 seconds)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway i replied to the points brought up for Sasaki. Anyone gonna answer them? Just forget the hyperbole thing i brought up above.

On another note, why is Sasaki not comparable to Poseidon if he constantly deflects all attacks thrown at him. Creating afterimages is not always a sign of being ludicurosly faster.

 

[Xulrev]

On another note, why is Sasaki not comparable to Poseidon if he constantly deflects all attacks thrown at him. Creating afterimages is not always a sign of being ludicurosly faster.

Because every strike of Poseidon's trident is explicitly faster than eyesight to Sasaki

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Faster then eyesight? He can still see and react to them though.

 

[Xulrev]

I forgot to edit in the scan but here it is saying that Earl: https://i.imgur.com/Nr3GVA2.png

 

[Xulrev]

Faster then eyesight? He can still see and react to them though.

He doesn't see them. He's using solely his skill to mentally simulate the battle, know where the trident will be, and keep ahead of the strikes that are faster than he can even see by the dozens

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh, well. It just means he cannot see them (motion perception limit), but he still very clearly reacts to them.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Several statements actually iirc Sasaki himself states that the blows are too fast for his eyes a few times in that fight.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As i said above, it can just be "too fast for his eyes, not for his body". It's not uncommon for people in fiction to dodge something they cannot see.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Didn't this also happen before Poseidon went at his full speed and used 40 day flood?

Not to mention, Poseidon had earlier shown that he could see ahead as well and know what Sasaki had predicted. feinting him and attacking from his blind spot. Meaning he wasn't just way faster, which he was before he even got serious.

 

[Xulrev]

As i said above, it can just be "too fast for his eyes, not for his body". It's not uncommon for people in fiction to dodge something they cannot see.

It was explained that he's dodging thanks, solely, to his skill and Thousand Image Defence. What other fiction does has no bearing on explicit statements for this verse thankfully for my boi Kojiro

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Never said it has any bearing, im saying he was still dodging just fine. If he was WAY faster, Sasaki would never have been able to block several attacks from the same direction. Because in that case Sasaki would literally have to move from side to side before Poseidon's spear crossed like 30 cm. If poseidon were that much faster it wouldn't be possible.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

There's generally a lot that shouldn't be possible, no matter that it is an exaggeration of "realistic feats", in this entire list, so let's not go down that route.

 

[Xulrev]

Didn't this also happen before Poseidon went at his full speed and used 40 day flood?
Not to mention, Poseidon had earlier shown that he could see ahead as well and know what Sasaki had predicted. feinting him and attacking from his blind spot. Meaning he wasn't just way faster, which he was before he even got serious.

This is 100% accurate.

Also, to the whole 'Adam vs Sasaki' thing: Sasaki explicitly had surpassed all of humanity in skill. So yea, Prince was correct to scale Sasaki above Adam

 

[Firephoenixearl]

There's generally a lot that shouldn't be possible, no matter that it is an exaggeration of "realistic feats", in this entire list, so let's not go down that route.

Ok but there's a difference between "does an incredible feat" and "moves faster than a faster opponent".

The reason i have no problem with him scanning everything from air vibrations etc etc. Because it's incredible, but it's not contradictory.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

There isn't. Controlling the kinetic energy of an attack to rebound it back is impossible, not an incredibly feat, but impossible from any logical point of view, yet we allow it. I don't care how much I like Ohma, the fact Demonsbane is a thing and achievable via skill makes it no less impossible than what Sasaki is doing, and giving one Carte Blanche while the other is "nah that can't happen" is just dumb bias.

 

[Xulrev]

Ok but there's a difference between "does an incredible feat" and "moves faster than a faster opponent".

.....isn't literally all of Ikki's shit this sort of feat

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok but there's a difference between "does an incredible feat" and "moves faster than a faster opponent".

.....isn't literally all of Ikki's shit this sort of feat

Ikki had trouble specifically cus of 1 feat where he killed 4 faster clones of himself. He had a separate thread specifically on that. Even though he has all those feats.

 

[Xulrev]

Yeah so it's a valid feat at base, if we're considering Ikki Kurogane skilled you can't dismiss Sasaki Kojiro

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

There were two possible conclusions from that feat

Either Ikki has canon circular scaling, in which case it is ignored, or the feat is trash because 4 guys who were 10x stronger and faster than Ikki couldn't kill him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah so it's a valid feat at base, if we're considering Ikki Kurogane skilled you can't dismiss Sasaki Kojiro

Yes, but depends on how much faster you're assuming poseidon to be.

@H13

They have canon "Skill > Speed".

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

So you're unironically saying that Ikki is faster than 10x his own speed? And you don't see the issue with this?

and don't say he used psuedo-Ittou Shura. That is 100% headcanon on your part.

 

[Xulrev]

There were two possible conclusions from that feat
Either Ikki has canon circular scaling, in which case it is ignored, or the feat is trash because 4 guys who were 10x stronger and faster than Ikki couldn't kill him.

I mean, no, Ikki explicitly learned a new technique from Edelweiss (iirc) between the clones being made and his fighting them, also they were imperfect clones.

He was more skilled than them, they were just physically superior.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So you're unironically saying that Ikki is faster than 10x his own speed? And you don't see the issue with this?
and don't say he used psuedo-Ittou Shura. That is 100% headcanon on your part.

Putting words in my mouth again. When did i say "faster"?

Canon actually says that a certain levels of skill you can deal with 10x faster opponents. Not even implies or seems to be saying that. Says it in your face with a feat.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

What feat exactly? Because if its this one that argument makes no sense, because you're justifying the feat with the feat itself.

 

[BakiHanma18]

It's my understanding that Sasaki isn't outspeeding a faster opponent, he's just reading Poseidon's moves so far ahead, he can dodge a move 1000 moves in advance, giving him a ton of time to react