Skill Wars: The Skill Awakens

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I noticed something when i was rereading Ikki vs Edelweiss:

"Perfect Vision―using the asset he had besides sword technique, the Worst One saw through Edelweiss' own technique." The narrator doesn't consider Perfect Vision as a technique, so when it's stated that Edelweiss is better than Ikki Perfect Vision isn't counted.

We count it as skill so maybe Ikki is actually more skilled than Edelweiss.

It's not a sword technique.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I actually think Pray's feats First Witch posted should be enough to bump her to 4 or 3 tbh. I don't really see Tasky being more skilled than Pray.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm, that might be a good point actually.

Edelweiss is a better swordsman than Ikki, and is superior even in stance and stuff like that, but Ikki should be better than her at Analysis and Mimicry among other things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'd question Koruki over Garou, everything he has done is something Garou has done too.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I can debate Garou v Kuroki if you'd like. Garou may still come out on top, I suppose we'll see

A simple feat and an impressive stalemate, he was able to carve this cool statue with his hands and he apparently has no blind spots

https://imgur.com/KmPN06D

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

No, Kuroki scales massively above the rest of the Kengan fighters who have Garou's feats and then some. Garou is essentially Agito and Kuroki was able to yeet him with little to no difficulty. Garou hasn't fought unpredictable fighters that have no blind spots, create entirely new marital arts on the fly, hasn't fought against opponents with the same level of adaptation and analytical Prediction, or a complete and total stomp of speed.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yeah, this too^ lol

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

No, Kuroki scales massively above the rest of the Kengan fighters who have Garou's feats and then some. Garou is essentially Agito and Kuroki was able to yeet him with little to no difficulty. Garou hasn't fought unpredictable fighters that have no blind spots, create entirely new marital arts on the fly, hasn't fought against opponents with the same level of adaptation and analytical Prediction, or a complete and total stomp of speed.

1. No, he hasn't fought unpredictable fighters with no blind spots.

2. Yes, he has created new martial arts on the fly, did you even see him vs Saitama and the rest of the S-Class?

3. He actually has, did you see him vs Orochi?

4. Again, yes he has, numerous times, especially in situations where he was compromised and unable to fight at full strength.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

1. As in reference to Garou or Kuroki? The latter most certainly has.


2. Even with that Kuroki has already beaten opponents who can do the same such as Agito the Fifth Fang of Metsudo. Kuroki low diffed him as he did with the rest of the fighters in the Kengan Annihilation Tournament. And if your talking about the style Garou made against Saitama it wasn't very impressive and it was very short lived.


3. Orochi dosen't have Analytical Prediction and he doesn't have Adaptation. He's damn near irrelevant.


4. Garou never faced an opponent who was moving FTE to him, they were faster but not FTE afaik. And him being able to fight at full strength isn't a skill feat, that's a feat of stamina, again irrelevant.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

1. Garou.

2. It wasn't just against him, it was against other opponents too. The only reason it was "unimpressive" was because he was forced into a situation (plot) that nothing he had could compare.

3. Orochi within seconds picked up Garou's fighting style and fought him with it, that is by no means irrelevant.

4. Yes he has, Golden Ball. He was able to predict the direction of his projectiles simply by the way he fired it, he couldn't even see the actual attack.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

1. Ah, that alone should speak for itself then.


2. Unimpressive as in the showings wasn't impressive. He did nothing notable with his new marital art against Saitama, no crazy feats of skill or movement. And Agito can do the same exact thing.


3. That's not Analytical Prediction and that's not Adaptation either, that's power mimicry which that alone isn't impressive on a thread like this.


4. No, Golden Ball's attack weren't FTE to Garou. Garou was in a alleyway that was dimly lit and Golden Ball's attack were ricocheting. That's not comparable to outright stomping a Master of a marital art that's 1200 years old and moving faster than anyone can even react. This include fighters with Analytical Prediction as well, such as Saw, Agito, etc.

 

[BakiHanma18]

For points 2 for Kuroki, I wouldn't say he low-diff'd him. I'd say it was at least low diff, but more likely mid diff. He didn't bust out his whole arsenal and try to his dying breath, but the Beard did work up a sweat for sure. Low diff is more like his fight with Kiryu

I agree with everything else so far

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright, guess he's superior then.

 

[Ionliosite]

Like, his hands aren't instantly teleporting back into a ready stance, but rather after every slash he can instantly pivot the blade and strike back in a different direction over and over without losing momentum? To me that would make sense and that's what I assumed the technique was.

Yeah, this is basically what I understand from it too.

 

[BakiHanma18]

If we agree he's superior to Garou, should we try scaling his skill to Vash to get him bumped up more?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Unless Pray gets bumped idk about that. Also I don't think Tasky is more skilled than Beard God either, one of the things Tasky has issues with are fighting styles that change. Cap used 4 fighting styles against Tasky and he couldn't predict or keep up with him, Agito's first match was against someone who could do the same thing as Cap and won rather easily.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Ion, is it similar to how Tsubame Gaeshi is in Record of Ragnarok?

I don't think that can work either.

Think about it, we are talking about literally performing outright hundreds of strikes in an instant even against people of comparable speeds.

Which is where I fall that it sounds like a logical impossibility unless it is treading into hax or it is just outright making Fugil's hands move much faster on top of doing something similar to Tsubame Gaeshi. I can see it being similar if not the exact same as Tsubame Gaeshi, but the end result doesn't correlate with the explanation to me. Or at least, how extreme the end result is.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Anyway, I would say I would indeed bump beard god above the likes of Taskmaster.

I am also tempted to say she should at least be on the level of Mori Jin.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Unless Pray gets bumped idk about that. Also I don't think Tasky is more skilled than Beard God either, one of the things Tasky has issues with are fighting styles that change. Cap used 4 fighting styles against Tasky and he couldn't predict or keep up with him, Agito's first match was against someone who could do the same thing as Cap and won rather easily.

There are discussions of bumping Pray up, but I don't know where that's going. Also, are you referring to Okubo or Gaolang (can't remember which was first)? We could scale Tasky to them to see how he scales down

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Okubo was the one, his name left my mind for a second. Gaolong was the boxer that Agito fought in his second round. Pray herself should be somewhere in the top 4-3.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Oh yeah Prince, unrelated but mind if I link a speed related discussion for Kengan Ashura to see if you could comment on it?

Xul is sticking to his guns on using Author Intent and bringing up our use of statements, which is tiring me a little since we've always taken intent and statements in isolated cases instead of discarding them entirely if we don't use them or ignore them in or two cases.

I don't really care which side you end up agreeing with, I would just like to see other opinions in there.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Absolutely mate.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Okubo was the one, his name left my mind for a second. Gaolong was the boxer that Agito fought in his second round. Pray herself should be somewhere in the top 4-3.

Even so now that I think about it, fighting both is impressive. Okubo uses MMA, which is technically 3 different styles encompassing a bunch of different styles: Stand-up and all of the techniques and martial arts used in Stand-up, Ground Game and all of it's martial arts, and holds, locks, grapples, and submissions. As far as Gao, he used Muy Thai and Boxing, two martial arts directly opposed, and he flawlessly mixed and executed them simultaneously

 

[First_Witch]

Okay, so to isolate the Carter feats...

Regarding speedy learning.

As i mentioned, Sion can learn entire styles after witnissing them once. Her mastery with those styles was described as follow:

"She sees, put it together inside her head, then digest it as if she's experienced it, and applies it to battle like she used it tens of thousands of times"

One of those styles she learned was the style of King Levan, a pretty significant Zail king. His style was dirt old though, everything outside of its steps and forms were lost. It became a show style, because no one understood what the purpose for any of the stances and steps were.

Sion looked at it. Deduced every purpose for every step and stance, recreated the entire theory behind it, making it an combat form again. And its not a simple sword style either. Its theory is the redirection of energy and gravity to change ones center throughout 100 stances. She did that as a child mind you.

Another noteworthy style Sion learned were the Six Demons in One God Style and the Pray Style. Both are highly dangerous and hard styles. The Six Demons style literally requires you to constantly sacrifices your body in order to use it, while the other puts an extraordinary amount of stress on the body everytime someone used it. Sion used techniques from both without any rebound effects.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Thinking about it Witch, and it may be unrelated, I actually think Sion may have been one of the people that could have mastered Pray Style without much issue.

I remember something about the stuff that isn't translated, don't remember where, that one of Anne's students managed to learn Pray Style without much complications as his frame and size is really similar to Pray's, which I think should also go for Sion.

Granted, is just a thought I had one time.

 

[First_Witch]

Oh damn sure she would have been a Pray Style master in no time.

And i think the character you mean is Momo. Its preeeetty far into the future, i even think current arc. Shes basically a absolute beast rivaling the top tiers, but i dont know the exact details, because well. Language.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

For sure, which makes it even more fun.

Hmmm... I do know Momo was one of the ones on top, but I don't think it was her. Is the little blonde (I think he was blond) guy that is brought to by Leo... oh right, Rick McCoy. Apparently, he learns and manages to use both Revised Pray Style and Orginal Pray Style with much less complications than normal users.

Ugh... I wanna see so much more of the new disciples and users. Goddamn language barrier.

 

[First_Witch]

Oooh, you mean Rick. He isnt a desciple of Anne though, hes Leo's desciple.

Fun fact, his Side Story is currently getting translated by the folks of Anne Freaks. 2 Chapters are out right now

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I hate my memory I swear to God

For some reason I remembered him as a disciple, maybe because I remembered Leo bringing him in the most.

Mhm, I heard. Anne Freaks are the most powerful of forces.

 

[First_Witch]

Well, he IS a desciple, just not Anne's. Witch is unusual considering how many she actually got lol.

Half the universe are Anne Freaks, thats a understatement lmao

 

[Creaturemaster971]

So it seems like they're just different types of improvement.

Like, in terms of skill, Sion would have better power mimicry, while Carter's is more like reactive power level

 

[The_Causality]

Well well, i've some time to spend here, let's put Juuzou in the Skill list: NOTE: everything accomplished by Juuzou are skill based (hell he don't even have sword talent), It's stated that people like him have no talent, he just trained at sword everytime. Another scan when, it's talk about Juuzou training, everything achieved with his sword is purely skill a skill above human intelect.

Sword Skills

Well, Juuzou Shishimi is someone with no talent, he kept swinging his sword during hundreds of years and is now able to cut everything in the world.

After 32 years he was able to cut throught Steal despite the fact that he has no talent at sword.

After 80 years he was able to Cut throught Demon, Monsters and devil spirits

After 500 Years, he could cut throught Invisible matter

And finally 800 Years, everything in the world, Karma, Curses and Concept, everything despite the fact that he was not good at sword

Cut throught Telekinetik forcefield and even a mere Soul

Completly ignored the law of invicibility used by Gengorou

Despite Karin's immortality (which prevent her to be armed), He Cutted her just fine

Cutted throughtTeleportation itself (Switcheroo is an Inversion abilities which allow the user to change the place of two object)

Juuzou Cut throught A Black Hole

Made an Higher Dimensional Cut (Confirmed by Jinbei when he was in an higher dimensional form)

The most Funny part, the manga explicitly show him cutting a Concept, when he stated that he could cut concept, He show the application of the concept cutting feat and give some advice to Touta and the other guy

Also, he can make explosion only with sword skill (at this point it's ridiculous lol)

Battle Skill

Intercepted, without looking both the bullets and the clones of someone who spawned around him off guards

Instantly stomped a Cyborg who can analyze weak point, coordonate and way to wi

He can hide his presence even aginst skilled warriors with hundred of fight experience

Fight i equal foot Jinbei who is a trained martial artist with almost hundreds of war experience (Jinbei Experienced many wars in his life, and many conflict, skilled enough to block dozen of sword strike without injurie), Hunderstood his ability in a second and adapted with "skill" (he said it himself lol). Skilled enough to make his sword strike have the effects of "fragmentation" insteads of slicing and make a bunch of rock and Take Jinbei off guard two time, and admited that there is one only way to win against Juuzou.

In the second part of the fight, he Constantly overpower Jinbei, cutting him without him noticing it despite the fact that they have the same speed, Even when he use his Teleportation Skill. Instantly cutted Huge rock without looking at them. And once again cutted him without him noticing it.

And finally, Jinbei state that every move from Juuzou in this battle was basically for Fun and child play.

Intercepted Touta's sword strike off guard with bare hands like nothing

Well, that's pretty long, i don't want to debate much to have an higher place in the list, so put him at the same place at Vash i guess?

 

[BakiHanma18]

I agree with top 10, though I'm not sure on exact placement. What does everyone think? We have 1 vote for Vash/Kuroki placement.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Ehh a lot of that is hax and AP especially in the first part. I don't see how that compares to Vash's vast skill feats.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Don't @ me, it's here. Deal with it

 

[BakiHanma18]

Honestly, really looking forward to Musashi v Hayato

 

[First_Witch]

This was requested by someone who believes Pray to be underplaced. I already went over the some noteworthy skill feats here

Pray's Skill scaling chain goes as follow.

Before becoming a knight, you must be elected by the Knight Order first. They only take the greatest of the greatest throughout the universe (Witch btw is pretty big due to hyper space jumping being a thing. Losing a couple highly populated planets is no tragic lose for example). They all start out as Knight Trainees and will further cultivate their skills and strength in highly advanced military training.

When its time for graduation, Knight Trainees will be send out on proper war missions to proof themself. Dying there happens quiet frequently. Anne's and Pray's graduation mission had a entire class of Knight Trainees on them. Only 3 survived. Anne, Pray and a Knight Trainee they saved.

Now our Knight Trainees are fresh Knights. They are now send to planetary wars frequently. For a Knight, war means fighting flying, laser shooting aliens who also know how to massacre armies with their arms and legs if needed with nothing more than a sword or other forms of close combat weaponry. suffice to say, Knights tend to die like flies and those who survives are praised like heroes.

So our Knight whooped enough AG ass and survived enough planetary wars to become a Master Knight. They are the upper echelon of the order and vastly more skilled and experienced than normal Knights. And further down the line you will find High Rankers, the top 100 Master Knights. The difference between a High Ranker and a Master Knight is that of a Knight and a Master Knight. Type Zero's, The strongest AG (Aliens) Unit and a literal one man army, are at their worst mortal danger for a Master Knight and a Knight troup and at their best the sole reason humanity will lose numerous planets. A Type Zero could whipe out an entire group of Knights surrouned. How? By individually thrusting at each of them. They all died before they even realized that Type Zero was armed.

A High Ranker can 1 vs 1 Type Zeroes quiet consistently.

But wait. There is more. Cold Heroes are old Knights throughout Humanitys history. They were living gods, coming from a war era far more vicious than the current one. Cold Heroes, as their name implies, are frozen to be used as war assets later. They are only thawed in the most direst of dire situations, mostly when humanity is facing impending doom. They are legends, unparalleled Heroes and the hope of humanity

Then we have the Top Swords. Top Sword is the title for greatest current living Knight. You pass all the BS before and can groom yourself with that title.

Sion was the Top Sword before Pray.

Anne surpassed all of that as the second greatest Knight.

Pray surpassed Anne by such an laughable degree, were talking about 3% win rate for Anne level of laughable.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'd say Pray over Taskmaster for sure. I'd suggest moving Pray up go 4, Taskmaster down to 7 and Kuroki at number 5.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I can actually agree with that.

 

[First_Witch]

Why stop at 4, get best girl Taskys 3 placing while we're at it ovo