Skill Wars: The Skill Awakens

[Creaturemaster971]

Okay, so to isolate the Carter feats...

Keep in mind that Carter and Tarkas are consistently portrayed as equals.

Carter learned every Green Martian style in a week, achieving many years worth of improvement in that time. Tarkas attained skill that would normally require hundreds if not thousands of years in only five. Carthoris achieved similar results in eight. Tarkas also created some techniques that even the oldest and most skilled Greens couldn't replicate, and Carter was able to recognize him across a great distance due to his use of those moves.

Tarkas and Carter observed that the Plantmen fighting style is virtually unpredictable, targets universal weakpoints, and is made possible by their unique natural body structures. Both of them immediately figure out how to counter this style so effectively that they can defend against hundreds of them at once. Carter himself learns to adapt the fighting style to his own body so that he can replicate it despite lacking the Plantmen physiology, and uses it far more effectively than the original Plantmen.

And then of course, there's everything with Solan.

 

[Ionliosite]

Also, I did want to ask, what eve is Quick Draw? Because I don't remember it ever being treated in any way like a speed amp, even if that is the only logical way in which it can make sense. Almost no lag between moves doesn't make the distance your sword needs to cross to make a slash, which is an attack, 0, so how do you pull off hundreds of attacks agaisnt people 10 times faster than you before they can do something? Unless I am remembering the feat you mentioned wrong.

Quick Draw is this:

"Quick Draw" A mind control operation in addition to the body control operation. A special move that dishes out unseen attacks with just one stroke, in an instant, through a sequence of movements from the perfect overlap of manipulating two differing systems.

But we aren't talking about Quick Draw, we are talking about End Action, two completely different techniques.

End Action doesn't attacks people 10x faster hundreds of times before they can do something, End Action can make hundreds of attacks in an instant, not that it can attacks people 10x faster, so you are maybe misremembering since the last time we were discussing Quick Draw.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Okay, so to isolate the Carter feats...
Keep in mind that Carter and Tarkas are consistently portrayed as equals.

Carter learned every Green Martian style in a week, achieving many years worth of improvement in that time. Tarkas attained skill that would normally require hundreds if not thousands of years in only five. Carthoris achieved similar results in eight. Tarkas also created some techniques that even the oldest and most skilled Greens couldn't replicate, and Carter was able to recognize him across a great distance due to his use of those moves.

Tarkas and Carter observed that the Plantmen fighting style is virtually unpredictable, targets universal weakpoints, and is made possible by their unique natural body structures. Both of them immediately figure out how to counter this style so effectively that they can defend against hundreds of them at once. Carter himself learns to adapt the fighting style to his own body so that he can replicate it despite lacking the Plantmen physiology, and uses it far more effectively than the original Plantmen.

And then of course, there's everything with Solan.

Btw, have we decided a placement for Carter? Or is he just going on the list in general?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

That's what's currently being discussed

 

[First_Witch]

Hitting the gym right now, will answer in 2 hours

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Okay, I may have indeed misremembered.

That still doesn't explain how that isn't a speed amp. Taking multiple actions in a more reduced amount of time is like, one of the basics of what a speed amp allows.

 

[Ionliosite]

It's more like a skill-based speed amp, because it doesn't really amp his speed at all, it's just that he is trained to attack people 10x faster than him with it.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Okay but, what is the skill part of it? Or what causes the speed to actually increase?

It just feels like there's some sort of missing contextual information letting me understand how that description ends in a speed amp, and what part of it is skill based.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'll drop a comment of where I think Kuroki Gensai should place, any Kengan fans here? I think he should definitely be within the top ten, and for the record I believe Pray should be higher than number 5. A better ranking for her would be 4-3.

 

[Ionliosite]

Basically, what makes him attack faster is the lack of a lag between his movements, which allows him to perform multiple actions simultaneously. It doesn't actually increase his speed as much it takes away a crucial part of swordplay such as lag between movements, which allows him to be way faster without actually being faster. The skill part comes mostly from the fact this isn't something Lux just does because he can, he trained for years to reduce the lag of his movements with this specific move so that he could attack even 10x faster opponents, which is something he sees often due to the side effects of Reload on Fire. This technique has been learned by other characters unrelated to Lux and Fugil, such as Alma and Velvet, simply because they followed the same training he did.

 

[BakiHanma18]

After what Kuroki did to Setsuna... yeah, he needs to be here

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

And Rei, and Kanoh and Ohma. All of them had insane skill feats, Rei was moving faster than anyone in the tournament could see, Kanoh could adapt to counter new marital arts, create entirely new marital arts and is unpredictable in his formless form and well Ohma is Ohma.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That actually makes much more sense.

Though next, the question would be "what is lag" in this context. Like, slashing with a sword, and then moving it to the next position for the next slash, is that second movement what is the lag?

Otherwise, it kinda feels more like he perfected efficiency of motion, sort of, or the typical thing you mentioned about "no wasted movements".

 

[Ionliosite]

Exactly that, the lag is the time between he slashes once and he slashes twice.

It's not just "no wasted movements" that's something Philuffy does and is still not comparable to Lux's Hidden Techniques.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I know we are debating bullshit things, but these are the kind of stuff that always leave me frowning and confused.

Like, at that point is better to say his hands instantly teleport to the position for the next attack for it to make sense.

But honestly, fits perfectly in this list.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Isn't that infinite speed? Doing things without any time passing?

 

[Ionliosite]

>Infinite Speed Bahamut

Sure, if you're willing to make a CRT to add infinite speed via skill.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Ignoring it not being on the profile as a statistic (I'm ignorant of the verse's feats so I wouldn't know if that's an outlier or not but judging from your reaction I guess it is), I'm talking about the mechanics of it.

"Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, travel anywhere instantly, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count.)"

Sounds similar to this. Or it's like what Lance is saying and he's teleporting his hands around.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

> tfw when you post a ******* wall of text with scans and the links decide to ******* stop working.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

oof

Good thing I knew what you were talking about when you posted the feats

 

[Ionliosite]

Ignoring it not being on the profile as a statistic (I'm ignorant of the verse's feats so I wouldn't know if that's an outlier or not but judging from your reaction I guess it is)

The best feat on the verse is Hypersonic+, you get quite higher thanks to the time manip tho, but still nowhere near enough to justify infinite speed.

Or it's like what Lance is saying and he's teleporting his hands around.

Lux is unable to perform teleportation in any away, shape or form.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Okay now we're gonna get into it with Kengan's strongest and by miles, the most skilled fighter in the Annihilation tournament. I'm gonna just gonna dive into all of his matches after his fight with Rhio since he's well, uh fodder.


Starting off with Kiryu the Beautiful Beast, I'll be posting Kiryu's feats before getting into Kuroki yeeting on him in their Kengan match.


Starting off, at just 16 years old Kiryu was able to master both Niko Style and Koei style, both being marital arts that are extremely versatile and only a selective few know about.


Kiryu was able to Master a technique within a year, a technique that takes no less than 8 years to be efficient at.


Deflects the strike of another skilled combatant, twisting his arm easily. Kiryu then proceeds to twist his neck around with utter ease.


Completely mangled the arm of the Heavenly Wolf in one strike.


Kiryu utterly humiliates the Heavenly Wolf, and showcasing two techniques Blink and his Rakshasa's palm.


Now we'll move on Kuroki's Kengan match.


Kuroki counters all of Kiryu's blows with ease.


Kuroki dodges Kiyru's new technique and counters it in the same move.


Dodges all of Kiyru's bloodlustes rushes, despite the patterns changing and Counters with his Devil Lance.


Deflects all of Kiyru's attacks while limiting himself to a small circle.


Next we'll move onto his next opponent, Mikazuchi Rei the Lightning God.


Rei is a Master of the Martial Art called Raishin Style, a deadly martial Arts passed down the Mikazuchi clan for over 1200 years.


At a young age Rei was able to Master the style, the training for this was extremely difficult and grueling, but at the end Rei prevailed and achieved "oneness"


Rei utilizing Dream Walking against Saw, the technique is explained in the scans.


Strikes all of Saw's weak points in rapid succession.


Counters Saw's Hammer of Burma, sending the force back into his head and chin.


Keeps attacking Saw's head to keep his brain shaking.


Now onto Kuroki's Kengan match with Rei.


Despite Rei outclassing Kuroki in speed, Kuroki's sheer skill more than makes up for it.


Using his foresight Kuroki is able to still tag Rei despite Rei using his fastest move.


On paper Raishin style can be countered but Kuroki is the only one skilled enough to do so.


Again strikes Rei, with REI being unable to be tracked by all of the Kengan fighters.


Kuroki's foresight is enough to attack Rei despite being faster than Kuroki can keep track of him, and is stated to be the pinnacle of foresight.


Blocks all of Rei's deadly pressure point techniques with ease.


Next we'll take a look at his next opponent, Agito Kanoh, the Fifth Fang of Metsudo.


Agito's main shtick is his unpredictably and his evolution, allowing him to make entire martial arts on the fly.


Agito and his opponent the King of Combat place each other in a variety of holds and locks, each being able to counter.


Agito is outright stated to be superior in every regard to his opponent despite not using the same fighting style.


Next up, Agito vs The Thai War God Gaolong. Long story short, Gaolong is the best boxer in the world of all four major boxing competitions in just 4 years. I'll post some of Gaolong's feats.

Even an unstable position Gaolong can still throw a punch without any drop in his skill.


Gaolong mastered both Muay Thai and Boxing, standing at the top of striking in all of Kengan.


Gaolong is skilled enough to counter Agito despite the latter using his Analytical Prediction to predict the best course of action, while Gaolong doesn't have any form of prediction.


Agito reduces the damage of Gaolong's punch by spinning.


Instantly adapts to Gaolong and creates a new fighting style to counter Gaolong.


Does whatever this is with his body to dodge Gaolong's strike.


His next opponent is Hatsumi Sen, the Floating cloud. A master of Aikido and even has his own variant of Aikido.


Hatsumi is able to go completely limp to reduce the damage of an attack that would have killed him.


Evades all of Bando's arm whips.


Hatsumi is able to dodge an opponents attack and make it seem like he never moved.


Agito has no blind spots and can attack his opponent with kicks from any range.


Counters Hatsumi's ultimate attack, predicting it and countering with a one inch punch.


Next up is Agito's match against Kuroki. In which Kuroki beats Agito without much difficulty.


Agito and Kuroki exchange blows so cleanly it appears to be phasing through each other.


Agito adapts once more, is stated to have mastered all martial arts and his formless style.


Kuroki once again prevails without too much difficulty. It's essentially more or less the same with Kuroki's match against Ohma, and Kuroki scales above the rest of the Kengan fighters in terms of sheer skill. Nobody in the tournament was even able to make Kuroki come close to losing. The links should be working now!

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But that's the issue, it falls under that umbrella of things that, to logically work, have to have something supernatural involved. It is effectively the same as reducing the space his hands travel to 0, which is an illogical impossibility without hax being involved, but there is no indication of such.

So I am just left frowning at the logistics of it.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

For the record, that's not even the full list of the shit Kuroki scales above, not even close. I don't think I could fit everything he scales above in a single comment and I don't feel like wasting hours of my life typing that up kek.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But that's the issue, it falls under that umbrella of things that, to logically work, have to have something supernatural involved. It is effectively the same as reducing the space his hands travel to 0, which is an illogical impossibility without hax being involved, but there is no indication of such.

So I am just left frowning at the logistics of it.

Right. So it's like if Nasu had Sasaki use Tsubame Gaeshi but didn't give details on it beyond "he is so skilled he can strike three times at once".

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, Quick Draw is explained quite a lot, to me is crystal clear how it works, and I don't see how you say its mechanics aren't explained.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Pay attention to my post god dammit-

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The issue is it not being explained. The issue is that the process is a logical impossibility, unlike a physical impossibility (Xulrev mentioned this before) as he would need to be reducing the space his arms move to 0 to logically make this possible.

If there's 0 lag, his hands aren't even traveling the distance transitioning from a slash to another, which would require space manip. Otherwise, is more or less "Fugil teleports his hands in a position ready to slash through skill", which is kind of what he's doing in a technical sense.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Pay attention to my post god dammit-

There's no point, the beard is invincible, don't do this to these poor people.

 

[Ionliosite]

If there's 0 lag, his hands aren't even traveling the distance transitioning from a slash to another

But this is false. His hands are traveling the distance, but there's no lag between him perfoming the slashes, his swordplay is so fast it leaves no oppening on his movements and makes meticulous use of every single move. The ability makes full use of both body and mind being perfectly synchronized to perform this, since it needs a lot of focus and training to properly perform such thing. There's a reason each Hidden Technique is said to take years to master to everyone not named Lux, because he's prodigy who could master it in such a short amount of time.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

How is it false? Unless you are traveling distance in 0 time, there will be lag. It may be the kind of minimal time barely perceptible to a FTL character, but the moves will still take time, just much less time, unless his limbs are literally in position instantly with 0 time happening, which would only be possible through teleportation, infinite speed or outright space manipulation.

I am not contesting the difficulty of the technique or how is described, but it is logically impossible to have zero lag just by efficient use of every movement, as it would be the equivalent of your arms instantly appearing in the position you need them.

 

[BakiHanma18]

As far as Kuroki, barring any arguments made (as far as the feats posted, I'll ask you all to compare them to current placements), I will be bumping him up to no 10 unless anyone would say otherwise

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'd argue that Kuroki should share Garou's spot or take his place. I don't really see anything that puts Garou above Kuroki whenever Kuroki scales above what Garou is capable of. We actually see a lot of what makes Garou impressive early on in Kengan and Kuroki scales above that by a tremendous amount.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

yeah Kuroki above Garou for sure

 

[BakiHanma18]

Done

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I kinda like how Pray acts as a gatekeeper for the top 5.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ion, is it similar to how Tsubame Gaeshi is in Record of Ragnarok?

Like, his hands aren't instantly teleporting back into a ready stance, but rather after every slash he can instantly pivot the blade and strike back in a different direction over and over without losing momentum? To me that would make sense and that's what I assumed the technique was.

Also First Witch, won't be able to respond til tomorrow cuz I gotta go to bed

 

[First_Witch]

I kinda like how Pray acts as a gatekeeper for the top 5.

I know right.

I do kinda want to get her a placement or 2 higher, but it feels pretty pointless with that little material i have to work with (Literally 2 and a half arcs worth of materials lol)

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Everything on ********* is 2.5 arcs?

 

[First_Witch]

Yes, the 60 chap long opening arc, the longer but self contained Sion side arc and the small 30-40 chapter long introduction arc to the Knight Fall arc