One Piece Post Timeskip Up to Dressrosa

[Damage3245]

It doesn't sound like there is agreement to change anything and this thread is at 480 posts now . . .

I just wanted us to start off with something simple like stop scaling Vergo and the other officers directly to Pica.

That this became a topic and revising all of Post-Timeskip feels a bit much to me. If we're going to try and root out scaling issues from across the entire series then we should have started with Pre-Timeskip first (though I swear we already went through this process).

 

[KingTempest]

Tempest surely wants to use the multipliers and i didn't see anyone else disagreeing with them, the final value was 369 megatons iirc.

I don't have interest in the multipliers anymore, there's an alternate method I found.

Damage, all I'm doing now is the people involved w/ Doflamingo (his officers), those that fought them (Straw Hat Grand Fleet) and the circular scaling throughout all of them. Chinjao does have a small city level calc, yes, but Chinjao has a mountain level feat, which shouldn't be dodged avoided.

 

[KingTempest]

Alright. Here's what I have.

420 Megatons​

​

Spoiler: 420 Megatons Scaling Chains

Reasoning​

No Haki Sai's AP > Lao G's AP > No Haki Chinjao's Dura ≥ No Haki Chinjao's AP > Durandal (until it bends) > Doflamingo's Bullet Strings > Law's Durability > Doflamingo's Physical AP > No Haki Luffy's Durability ≥ 420 Megatons

Hakuba's AP > Dellinger's Dura > Dellinger's AP > Ideo's Dura ~ Sai's AP ≥ 420 Megatons

Cavendish ~ No Haki Chinjao's AP > Durandal (until it bends) >>≥ 420 Megatons

Baby 5's Dura > Baby 5's AP ~ No Haki Sai's AP
Nami and Usopp's Individual AP > Buffalo's Dura ~ Buffalo's AP

840 Megatons​

​

Spoiler: 840 Megatons Scaling Chains

Reasoning​

840 Megatons < Hakuba ~ 2x Cavendish > Cavendish ~ No Haki Chinjao's AP > Durandal (until it bends) >>≥ 420 Megatons

Kyros's AP ~ Diamante's AP >>> Rebecca's Helmet ≥ Hakuba ≥ 840 Megatons
Nico Robin's Dura ≥ Nico Robin's AP > Hakuba ≥ 840 Megatons
Nico Robin's Dura ≥ Nico Robin's AP > Diamante's AP ≥ 840 Megatons

Gear Third Luffy, Diable Jambe Sanji, Serious Zoro all scale to (if not above) Robin, because Caribou would rather fight Robin than the Monster Trio.

Doflamingo's Spider Web and Awakening Dura and AP > Gear Third Luffy > Nico Robin's AP
Diable Jambe Sanji's AP > Nico Robin's AP
Serious Zoro's AP > Monet's AP > Nico Robin's Dura > Nico Robin's AP

1260 Megatons​

​

Spoiler: 840 Megatons Scaling Chains

Reasoning​

Gear Fourth Luffy

Those who fall under what tier.​

420​

Spoiler: Those with 420 Megatons

Base Luffy's AP
Gear 2nd Luffy's AP
Luffy's Dura
Law's Dura
Doflamingo's Physical AP
The Corrida Officers
The Straw Hat Grand Fleet

840​

Spoiler: Those with 840 Megatons

Gear Third's AP
Diable Jambe Sanji's's AP & Dura
Vergo's AP & Dura
Smoker's AP & Dura
Serious Zoro's AP & Dura
Diamante's AP & Dura
Kyros' AP & Dura
Hakuba's AP
Nico Robin's AP & Dura
Monet's AP & Dura
Doflamingo's Strings' AP & Dura

1260​

Spoiler: Those with 1260 Megatons

Gear Fourth's AP
Gear Fourth's Dura

 

[Dr.Fix]

I just wanted us to start off with something simple like stop scaling Vergo and the other officers directly to Pica.

I don't really have a problem with scaling them to Pica. Certainly been done before in the abscence of anything concrete to resort to rank.

I do think these threads need to be more focused. This is the second one that tried to cover waay too many topics at once since the move.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't really have a problem with scaling them to Pica. Certainly been done before in the abscence of anything concrete to resort to rank.

I do think these threads need to be more focused. This is the second one that tried to cover waay too many topics at once since the move.

The thing about that, they would likely scale to Pica outside of his wood golem thingy, not the actual wood golem which is 377 megatons.

W/ this above, Diamante and Vergo (those equal to Pica) get 840 Megatons

 

[Damage3245]

No Haki Luffy's Durability ≥ 420 Megatons

Okay, I have a problem with this right at its core.

I can only assume that this is trying to scale Luffy's durability to Fujitora's feat of lifting the rubble instead of the actual attack he hit him with which is Ferocious Tiger. So first thing's first is replace that figure that base Luffy is scaling to with the calc for Ferocious Tiger.

 

[KingTempest]

Okay, I have a problem with this right at its core.

I can only assume that this is trying to scale Luffy's durability to Fujitora's feat of lifting the rubble instead of the actual attack he hit him with which is Ferocious Tiger. So first thing's first is replace that figure that base Luffy is scaling to with the calc for Ferocious Tiger.

We're scaling to that because we discussed above (on this same page) that

A. We needed a new calc for Ferocious Tiger (since the current calc didn't account for the gravity lost in the dozens of meters travelled).
B. Fuji's attacks scale above his 420 megatons calc.

 

[Damage3245]

Just because we discussed it doesn't mean it was agreed upon. If there is a way for the calc to account any other variables, I'd be happy to hear about it.

I haven't seen a concrete reason for why his attacks must be above the 420 megaton calc.

And I also have to say that this notion that every character in the Dressrosa arc scales to Fujitora as a baseline is weird. Since when is he the weakest character in the arc?

And those scaling chains, the likes of Kyros and Nico Robin are physically twice as strong as Doflamingo? I'd like to know what @CinCameron20 has to say about that.

 

[KingTempest]

If there is a way for the calc to account any other variables, I'd be happy to hear about it.

The Inverse square law might be able to account for it.

I haven't seen a concrete reason for why his attacks must be above the 420 megaton calc.

Fujitora can maintain the lifting feat + attacking but he can't maintain gravity against Zoro.
Fujitora's gravity wasn't enough to hold down Law. Law flat out warned him prior to escaping that if he couldn't hold him down, he would escape. What did Law do? Escape.
If he can lift 420 megatons, he should've been able to keep Law down there. This scales to Law's dura, which everyone scales to.

And I also have to say that this notion that every character in the Dressrosa arc scales to Fujitora as a baseline is weird. Since when is he the weakest character in the arc?

Everyone scales to his casual feat, which is close to a few other feats in the series. He's obviously stronger, but unless he shows feats higher, he's where he's at now.
The same way we treat Aokiji's super casual 419 Megaton feat with his other showings (scaling much higher than his feat) is exactly how we'll scale the other strong people who can fight against Luffy, who can take casual attacks from these people.

And those scaling chains, the likes of Kyros and Nico Robin are physically twice as strong as Doflamingo? I'd like to know what @CinCameron20 has to say about that.

Doflamingo's Physical AP matches against Base Luffy who everyone in the arc scales above.
His durability would scale to the 840 Diable Jambe Sanji for taking a kick from him, but his AP stays where it is.
He fights mainly using his strings. I fail to understand why Doflamingo's physicals should scale to people who are 100% physical fighters.

Also.

Can we please throw the "position" scaling out the window?

We have Luffy scaling above Admirals.
We have Luffy scaling above Rayleigh.
Position doesn't mean anything in this verse.

I'm pretty sure CinCameron would either disagree because of position (which was declined in the Vergo ~ Pica scaling by everyone here) or agree since we have nothing else to scale to.

 

[Dr.Fix]

And I also have to say that this notion that every character in the Dressrosa arc scales to Fujitora as a baseline is weird. Since when is he the weakest character in the arc?

Agreed. The only one's who should be above him by feats are Duffy & Luffy (gear 3) iirc.

 

[KingTempest]

Agreed. The only one's who should be above him by feats are Duffy & Luffy (gear 3) iirc.

Law's dura scales via not getting crushed by Fujitora holding him down.
They all scale to Law's dura.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Law's dura scales via not getting crushed by Fujitora holding him down.
They all scale to Law's dura.

Law alreadys cales to 377. He doesn't need to be 440 just to not be smush.

 

[KingTempest]

Law alreadys cales to 377. He doesn't need to be 440 just to not be smush.

377 is Pica's calc, who nobody except Zoro's AP scales to.

420 is Law's dura, which scales above the lifting via Issho's pinning people down > lifting.

Edit: Originally, it was because he took hits from Vergo who scales to Pica's 377, but Damage, Emit, and some others disagree with that scaling.
That scaling is no more.

I scaled him to the 420. Unless we want to scale him to Doflamingo's Parasite which scales to 419.7 Megatons (420 if we round up) via Aokiji's casual feat, which gives the same results.

 

[Damage3245]

Fujitora can maintain the lifting feat + attacking but he can't maintain gravity against Zoro.

Simply lifting the rubble and keeping it in the air requires far less energy that transporting it across Dressrosa which the 420 Megaton calc is for.

 

[KingTempest]

Simply lifting the rubble and keeping it in the air requires far less energy that transporting it across Dressrosa which the 420 Megaton calc is for.

Still a very casual feat that he doesn't even show effort doing.

Also, we saw Ferocious Tiger being charged up prior to it's use against Sabo, noted by the black lightning.
From what I know, charged attacks > randomly thrown out attacks.

Is that not enough proof? I'm 1000% sure it is.

 

[Damage3245]

Still a very casual feat that he doesn't even show effort doing.

Also, we saw Ferocious Tiger being charged up prior to it's use against Sabo, noted by the black lightning.
From what I know, charged attacks > randomly thrown out attacks.

Is that not enough proof? I'm 1000% sure it is.

If you're rating it above the lifting calc though, that would make it City level.

 

[KingTempest]

If you're rating it above the lifting calc though, that would make it City level.

How come it wouldn't scale above the KE (the country moving) which is mountain level?

 

[Damage3245]

How come it wouldn't scale above the KE (the country moving) which is mountain level?

Isn't the lifting what you were linking Fujitora to? Since he was able to lift the rubble while fighting but did not keep up the gravity pressure on Zoro after Zoro sent a flying sword strike at him?

 

[KingTempest]

Isn't the lifting what you were linking Fujitora to? Since he was able to lift the rubble while fighting but did not keep up the gravity pressure on Zoro after Zoro sent a flying sword strike at him?

I meant to refer to the whole feat in general, Fujitora could handle all of that but he couldn't handle the pressure from Zoro as well.
Also, he could use his gravity against Law, and his gravity wasn't enough to keep Law down, yet he could do the mountain level feat with no issues.

 

[Dr.Fix]

377 is Pica's calc, who nobody except Zoro's AP scales to.

420 is Law's dura, which scales above the lifting via Issho's pinning people down > lifting.

Edit: Originally, it was because he took hits from Vergo who scales to Pica's 377, but Damage, Emit, and some others disagree with that scaling.
That scaling is no more.

I scaled him to the 420. Unless we want to scale him to Doflamingo's Parasite which scales to 419.7 Megatons (420 if we round up) via Aokiji's casual feat, which gives the same results.

What does @CinCameron20 say on that?

I don't see a reason for @Damage3245 not to like that one. He himself uses rank on profiles and in this case the math more or less adds up. Law's feats put him at least within the realm of 377 so he really has no cause to remove that scaling unless he has someting else to add.

 

[KingTempest]

What does @CinCameron20 say on that?

Cin wanted Vergo to be = to Pica's Golem. That was declined.

I don't see a reason for @Damage3245 not to like that one. He himself uses rank on profiles and in this case the math more or less adds up. Law's feats put him at least within the realm of 377 so he really has no cause to remove that scaling unless he has someting else to add.

It's cause Pica's regular body is his base form, and his golem isn't.
It would make more sense for Vergo and Diamante to scale to his base than his huge golem.

If my suggestions go through via scaling to the 420 feat, Diamante and Vergo would be 840 Megatons.

 

[XDragnoir]

Cin wanted Vergo to be = to Pica's Golem

Yes, Me, Emini, Damage and Tempest disagree with that if i am not mistaken

Golem Pica is much stronger than Pica and no character (Doffy, Vergo, etc) were stated to be above or comparable to him, and iirc Zoro slicing the Golem was also calced and it isn't 7A, while Pica's 377 feat comes from his potential energy and it seem no one scales to his potential energy (i don't understand anything about PE, but it seems no one should be scaling to it)

 

[Dr.Fix]

Cin wanted Vergo to be = to Pica's Golem. That was declined.

I agree with @CinCameron20 actually.

It's cause Pica's regular body is his base form, and his golem isn't.
It would make more sense for Vergo and Diamante to scale to his base than his huge golem.

I don't think that matters much.

If my suggestions go through via scaling to the 420 feat, Diamante and Vergo would be 840 Megatons.

I still don't know where you're doubling that number.

 

[XDragnoir]

Hakuba has a 2x iirc.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Hakuba has a 2x iirc.

Hakuba/Cavendish has no feats against Fujitora . . .

 

[KingTempest]

I still don't know where you're doubling that number.

Hakuba is 2x Cavendish.
Cavendish's physicals can hold up Chinjao on the tip of a bent sword.
Chinjao can bend the sword that tanked the bullet string w/out bending.
Bullet string could rip through Trafalgar Law's body.
Law tanked Fujitora's gravity.

Nico Robin scales to Hakuba (as she held him).

Diamante destroyed Rebecca's helmet which took a hit from Hakuba (who's always bloodlusted).

Sanji > Nico Robin as Caribou would rather fight her than the monster trio members.
Vergo ~ Sanji.

Sanji, Diamante, Robin, Vergo, and some more people > 840 megatons = 2x 420 megatons.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Hakuba is 2x Cavendish.
Cavendish's physicals can hold up Chinjao on the tip of a bent sword.
Chinjao can bend the sword that tanked the bullet string w/out bending.
Bullet string could rip through Trafalgar Law's body.
Law tanked Fujitora's gravity.

Nico Robin scales to Hakuba (as she held him).

Diamante destroyed Rebecca's helmet which took a hit from Hakuba (who's always bloodlusted).

Sanji > Nico Robin as Caribou would rather fight her than the monster trio members.
Vergo ~ Sanji.

Sanji, Diamante, Robin, Vergo, and some more people > 840 megatons = 2x 420 megatons.

Stretching

 

[XDragnoir]

Stretching

For real? At least use scans to say what it is wrong.

On a side note, i also don't like that chain that much, but it is MUCH better than the current one, and it has some consistency and isn't based in position scaling.

 

[Dr.Fix]

For real? At least use scans to say what it is wrong.

I don't have time right now. On break.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Does holding someone down count as AP? I thought that was just a lifting strength feat.

 

[KingTempest]

Does holding someone down count as AP? I thought that was just a lifting strength feat.

Battle applicable lifting.
Fujitora lifted a country with gravity he can attack people with.
He can apply that force on someone too, which is why he pushed Zoro through the ground.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I was referring to Robin with my comment.

 

[KingTempest]

I was referring to Robin with my comment.

Robin forcibly pushed his arms back while he was going to attack, then held him down.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

"Nico Robin scales to Hakuba (as she held him)."
I was just going off of this. Probably should have added that other part.

 

[KingTempest]

Thanks for informing me, I'll edit that.

I'll edit the sandbox with the new justifications and the new scaling.

If @Damage3245, @CinCameron20, or @Dr.Fix has any arguments for them to be changed, and the changes go through, I'll revert them back to whatever rating they were prior.

 

[Damage3245]

He himself uses rank on profiles and in this case the math more or less adds up.

I believe I've been largely consistent on wanting to cut down scaling based on rank and titles in pretty much all series I am a fan of.

 

[Damage3245]

By the way, I've just realized that the Hakuba multiplier might be based on an incorrect translation. The official translation just states that Hakuba is twice the fighter Cavendish is. Not that all of his stats are doubled.

 

[KingTempest]

By the way, I've just realized that the Hakuba multiplier might be based on an incorrect translation. The official translation just states that Hakuba is twice the fighter Cavendish is. Not that all of his stats are doubled.

And a CRT found the raws and translated it, and it said strength. They talked about Viz as well.

The official Viz said that Rob Lucci's Doriki was five times stronger while Stephen Paul (the current OP translator) and a bunch of other translations said that it just said higher.
Viz isn't always right.

I wanted that to work as a speed multiplier too based on KE, and the only way to boost striking is either by mass or speed. This isn't the CRT for it though.

 

[Damage3245]

Fair enough.

But this being the basis for upgrading a lot of characters:

Chinjao can bend the sword that tanked the bullet string w/out bending.

I also disagree with. The way Chinajo is attacking the sword is different to Canvedish deflecting Doflamingo's bullets. He is applying a constant weight to it with his headbutt / dive.

 

[Ped2018]

Yeah, and cavendish blocked Chinjaos' attack with the tip of his sword while he blocked Doflas' attack using all of his blade