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It only show 6.Check the genjutsu potency blog
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It only show 6.Check the genjutsu potency blog
No it's not, unless the OP nerfs his genjutsu abilities, I am pretty sure what he can do to the mind is far more complex than anything the OP side has seen or resistedIts treated the same way for both sides on this site im pretty sure
But sasuke rinnegan would make it 7 or eight layers.
I am not sure try contacting the Naruto supporters.Does the >>> really give 3 layers from Six paths Dojutsu compared to the EMS?
Sasuke rinengan is not up to 8 layers.Actually Sasuke has the rinnegan which is stated in the databook to have the most powerful genjutsu so it’s another layer so maybe 8 to 9 layers
Yes for six path doujustu. Sasuke has an extra layer between infinite tsukyomi and his
good write up . FRALeaning the Nard and Sauce duo.
Flight and AOE Spam
Well first off, both are capable of flying whereas only Luffy is capable of it, which would normally be fine since Zoro can use ariel cuts and jump high enough to reach them up to a certain point(as we saw in the King fight) but with the sheer AOE Nard is capable of with Bijuu Bombs, Giant Rasengan Barrages, Rasenshurikens that can dura neg at a cellular level, hundreds of clones that can spam ninjutsu or spam their own clones, Truth Seeking Orbs, and Sasuke's long-range ninjutsu like Susanoo Arrows or CT.
Genjutsu GG
On top of Nard's ninjutsu, Sasuke has his own GJ which should be at a superior level to Infinite Tsukuyomi as he is capable of resisting. and since GJ can not only knock someone out but can also completely paralyze their bodies, he would be able to completely subdue them and use Chibaku Tensei(power null) on either of them to seal if needed. On top of that Sasuke has shown his capacity to use GJ so subtly that even people with the ability to resist it don't realize they're under it because he's only just slightly changing what their senses perceive to fool them and to make it worse neither Luffy nor Zoro have the mental resistances to deal with GJ on Sasuke's level even with Haki layers which if we generously used them as mental resistance layers is only like 6 or 7 layers.
EoS Sasuke GJ Potency: Regular genjutsu < 1 tomoe < 2 tomoe < 3 tomoe < MS < Tsukuyomi < EMS < Koto < IT < Tomoe Rinnegan(Sauce's tier)
Is the speed gap enough?
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them. A good example is Kaguya who gained in Zetsu's words an exponential increase in speed and has the byakugan's enhanced senses but was still incapable of tagging either of them due to their tactics, enhanced reactions, and various evasive jutsu(shadow clones, transformation jutsu, Amenotejikara, etc.)
500 IQ Nardo
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skill in a world of combat geniuses where whereas Luffy and Zoro are usually the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offense(at least in Zoro's case.). at the very least its safe to say Luffy and Zoro arent as strategically sound as someone like Law who's plans are not that impressive compared to Sasuke deconstructing Deidara and Danzo's strategies or Naruto's unpredictable fighting style letting him fight people much stronger than him.
Luffy and Zoro slam in a lift-off tho lets be frr
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long.
Stamina stuff
Also, full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits, whereas Nard and Sasuke can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly smaller chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.
Future Sight tho
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, as we know from Kat, you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention, FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara, nor would it save him from Genjutsu (more often than not, Luffy's not going to FS, see himself unconscious, and close his eyes before Sasuke glances at him one time)
Dura neg gg
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up replace them with his Yang Seal, but with SPSM's invulnerability to Ninjutsu(physical and spiritual energy) you might be able to argue the Buso Haki emitted wouldn't hurt Naruto.
Nature vs Laughter
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.
idc what side you're on Luffy accidentally taking out Zoro with Bajrang would be hilarious
Bajrang Gun is a possible wincon for Luffy as it is L5B, but this is only if he escapes all the crazy AOE abilities, hax, and teamwork Nard and Sauce are known for at the start. But even then it's also possible for Sasuke to just switch Luffy with a rock on the ground and just have him slam Bajrang into the floor, or worse Sasuke switches with Zoro, and Luffy kills him with Bajrang.
The jutsu that created and killed 5-B Naruto is still pretty strong
A last resort that Luffy or Zoro will have to worry about in this fight is the Six Path Chibaku Tensei, because the jutsu only requires both Nard and Sauce to tag one of them with their dominant hands it is a very possible wincon that will remove either Luffy or Zoro from the fight entirely as it power nulls you into a moon-sized rock and sends you flying into space. The technique is proven to work on people who are significantly stronger than Naruto and Sasuke in IT Kaguya.
Nard and Sauce Advantages
- Better AP outside of Bajrang Gun(which probably isn't landing ngl)
- Better Combat Intelligence and Skill
- Some pretty annoying hax that Luffy and Zoro can't get around(TSO, Amenotejikara, GJ, SPCT, etc.)
- A better argument for stamina
- A lot of evasive abilities to keep away from Luffy and Zoro (substitutions, Amenotejikara, clones,)
- Better aerial maneuverability since Zolo can't really fly.
- Better range (mainly cause Zoro's range can't compete with the other three yet),
- A better argument for lasting longer in a prolonged fight(
Luffy really needs to finally have a form where he doesn't pass out after an hour of fighting in it.)- Nard can get stronger with Nature Energy
- Potential argument for invulnerable to BA Haki for Naruto (SPSM makes Nard immune to ninjutsu aka spiritual and physical energies)
Monke Dee and Zolo Advantages
- Better speed
- Luffy's inherent resistance to blunt attacks.
- An AP ability stronger than either Nard or Sauce have in Bajrang Gun,
- Dura neg via Luffy's Beyond Advanced Busoshoku Haki
- Luffy's Future Sight
- Better Lifting Strength
I very honestly don't see this as an issue for Zoro. Not only does he have really good Kenbun which grants him several kilometers of range (due to being at least relative to BoTS Luffy), which would allow him to see all of their attacks before they even get launched from kilometers away, but Zoro himself has some pretty good range, which would allow him to easily fight off Bijuu Bombs via flame rend, Resengan Barrages and clones with his own AoE attacks like Tatsumaki, Rasenshuriken with his Haki (defends against attacks to an sub-atomic level). Susanoo Arrows and TSOs get dealt via Buso Emission taking the attack for him, and I'm not sure what CT is.Flight and AOE Spam
Well first off, both are capable of flying whereas only Luffy is capable of it, which would normally be fine since Zoro can use ariel cuts and jump high enough to reach them up to a certain point(as we saw in the King fight) but with the sheer AOE Nard is capable of with Bijuu Bombs, Giant Rasengan Barrages, Rasenshurikens that can dura neg at a cellular level, hundreds of clones that can spam ninjutsu or spam their own clones, Truth Seeking Orbs, and Sasuke's long-range ninjutsu like Susanoo Arrows or CT.
Genjutsu effects the 5 senses. Kenbunshoku (when active) acts like a different medium, allowing them to hear, feel, see, smell, taste things outside of the mind, which is why Rayleigh referred to it as being beyond tricks of the mind.Genjutsu GG
On top of Nard's ninjutsu, Sasuke has his own GJ which should be at a superior level to Infinite Tsukuyomi as he is capable of resisting. and since GJ can not only knock someone out but can also completely paralyze their bodies, he would be able to completely subdue them and use Chibaku Tensei(power null) on either of them to seal if needed. On top of that Sasuke has shown his capacity to use GJ so subtly that even people with the ability to resist it don't realize they're under it because he's only just slightly changing what their senses perceive to fool them and to make it worse neither Luffy nor Zoro have the mental resistances to deal with GJ on Sasuke's level even with Haki layers which if we generously used them as mental resistance layers is only like 6 or 7 layers.
EoS Sasuke GJ Potency: Regular genjutsu < 1 tomoe < 2 tomoe < 3 tomoe < MS < Tsukuyomi < EMS < Koto < IT < Tomoe Rinnegan(Sauce's tier)
Considering Zoro and Luffy have the same (arguably to a greater degree) with Luffy flatout having Future Sight, I don't think this would change much.Is the speed gap enough?
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them. A good example is Kaguya who gained in Zetsu's words an exponential increase in speed and has the byakugan's enhanced senses but was still incapable of tagging either of them due to their tactics, enhanced reactions, and various evasive jutsu(shadow clones, transformation jutsu, Amenotejikara, etc.)
I honestly don't understand how you can say that Sasuke and Naruto are more skilled and intelligent in battle than Luffy and Zoro. At the very least they're relative.500 IQ Nardo
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skill in a world of combat geniuses where whereas Luffy and Zoro are usually the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offense(at least in Zoro's case.). at the very least its safe to say Luffy and Zoro arent as strategically sound as someone like Law who's plans are not that impressive compared to Sasuke deconstructing Deidara and Danzo's strategies or Naruto's unpredictable fighting style letting him fight people much stronger than him.
Maybe not, but Luffy's FS and Zoro's Kenbun would allow them to know where they'd pop up before they even use Substitution Jutsu or Amenotejikara, and with their superior speed, they'd land these attacks more often than not.Luffy and Zoro slam in a lift-off tho lets be frr
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long.
There's no proof that KoH is very energy-consuming for Zoro at this point. During his fight with King, it was only stated that EU is what was draining his energy, and this was after an extended fight with King, fighting Big Mom and Kaidou on rooftop, and sustaining pretty rough injuries that were slowly coming back twofold. He was able to use ACoC freely.Stamina stuff
Also, full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits, whereas Nard and Sasuke can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly smaller chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.
Luffy has only had 1 big battle since awakening FS against Katakuri, in his fight with Kaidou, and in that fight, we see Luffy actively using FS to avoid and hit attacks, and just like we deduce Kenbun in fights, we can do similar things for Luffy, just like how Katakuri used it, especially considering during the entirety of Luffy's snakeman assault against Kaidou, he was apparently using FS according to the latter without any visual indication of it.Future Sight tho
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, as we know from Kat, you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention, FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara, nor would it save him from Genjutsu (more often than not, Luffy's not going to FS, see himself unconscious, and close his eyes before Sasuke glances at him one time)
Hao and Buso grant resistance to regeneration, so Naruto's Kurama Chakra wouldn't help here. Replacing them with the Yang Seal might work, but I really doubt he'd have time to do this when getting hit with hundreds of attacks at once. Haki also has resistance negation, so Naruto's resistance to attacks like that would be negated, even if we do equalize the two (which I don't agree to regardless)Dura neg gg
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up replace them with his Yang Seal, but with SPSM's invulnerability to Ninjutsu(physical and spiritual energy) you might be able to argue the Buso Haki emitted wouldn't hurt Naruto.
Luffy's more unquantifiable amps that allow him to near-oneshot an opponent he clashed with prior to his laughing amp?Nature vs Laughter
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.
Luffy could simply throw Zoro out of the way.idc what side you're on Luffy accidentally taking out Zoro with Bajrang would be hilarious
Bajrang Gun is a possible wincon for Luffy as it is L5B, but this is only if he escapes all the crazy AOE abilities, hax, and teamwork Nard and Sauce are known for at the start. But even then it's also possible for Sasuke to just switch Luffy with a rock on the ground and just have him slam Bajrang into the floor, or worse Sasuke switches with Zoro, and Luffy kills him with Bajrang.
The issue with this is that Luffy would see it coming with his FS and would warn Zoro about it. Even if they do get hit, What would stop Luffy from Bajrang Gunning it?The jutsu that created and killed 5-B Naruto is still pretty strong
A last resort that Luffy or Zoro will have to worry about in this fight is the Six Path Chibaku Tensei, because the jutsu only requires both Nard and Sauce to tag one of them with their dominant hands it is a very possible wincon that will remove either Luffy or Zoro from the fight entirely as it power nulls you into a moon-sized rock and sends you flying into space. The technique is proven to work on people who are significantly stronger than Naruto and Sasuke in IT Kaguya.
TSO is Hakai and Dust Release combined. Why would Buso emission negate TSOs?TSOs get dealt via Buso Emission taking the attack
Naruto's boil release can amp him to the point that he blew away Kaguya's vacuum fist instantly and knocked her back, the same vacuum fist that can repeatedly one shot Sasuke's perfect susanoo, the same susnaoo that can match his Kurama avatar thats already a massive amp to himself.Luffy's more unquantifiable amps that allow him to near-oneshot an opponent he clashed with prior to his laughing amp?
? I'm referring to his rubberification and toon force? He was able to turn lightning into rubber. That's by definition sub-atomic transmutation.We giving everyone who’s ever tanked lightning without damage durability down to the sub atomic level now? All lightning manip users getting sub atomic durability for interacting with lightning Luffy being able to interact with lightning doesn’t mean he’s defending against attacks on a sub-atomic level goon.
Which isn’t the same as being able to defend against attacks on a sub-atomic level. You’re absolutely right it’s transmutation, that’s it.? I'm referring to his rubberification and toon force? He was able to turn lightning into rubber. That's by definition sub-atomic transmutation.
Just make a new match brother but ig don’t forget to remove all the votes since you’re changing the vs matchSwapping zoro for sanji, ill update op when i can
How come?Though he won't be able to hurt Perfect Susano'o or Kurama Avatar
Naruto and Sasuke are absolutely not more skilled than Luffy and Zoro. Perhaps in terms of strategy, but outside of that Zoro himself would blow away Sasuke in terms of skill and swordsmanship. Also Zoro and Luffy both have feats of instantly creating complex strategies after seeing an opponents strength and powers.Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skilled in a world of combat geniuses whereas Luffy and Zoro are typically the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offensive strategy(at least in Zoro's case.).
You do realize both Zoro and Luffy also have vastly better forms of precognition correct? Sharingan Prediction is hardly relevant given that Luffy can outright out Predict the both of them, has experience in fighting people with precognition, is faster than the duo and speaking of un-predictable that's G5's entire shtick. So i really doubt Nard and Sasuke are going to have an easy time avoiding attacks from faster characters, that excel in unpredictable attacks while both have significant experience in dealing with folks with better senses and precognition than the ninja duo.Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them.
Substitution jutsu gets directly countered by the fact that both Zoro and Luffy would be able to tell the location of where they'd swap to and simply attack there instead. With the edge in speed pulling this off shouldn't be an issue for them at all.Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long
Full use of G4 doesn't drain him nearly as much anymore, furthermore he was able to previously use G4 for nearly a day straight (couple hours iirc.) Also I'd disagree with Nard and Sasuke going at it for days on end here, I very much doubt they can spam their most potent abilities without running out of Chakra at some point. Especially since they'll need to be using everything they have given that they're the slower of the two.Full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits which based on Wano and later egghead for Luffy, is at best a few hours of combat. Whereas Nard and Sauce can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly lesser chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.
This one doesn't work either, he's been spamming it ever since he got it. Kaidou can use FS while drunk and bloodlusted, a calm mind is required but that doesn't mean much in the long run. G5 is still able to use FS perfectly, him laughing has nothing to do with that.Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, we also know from Katakuri that you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS effectively, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention
Amenotejikara is irrelevant since Buso is resistant to spatial manipulation.FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara,
Naruto's regeneration doesn't cover the extend of damage BA Hao can produce. The size of the explosions would be much larger and destructive than anything Naruto has ever recovered from.BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen or vitality, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up genetically recreate them with his Yang Seal,
Imma need scans for that 3x amp.G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.
You have an example of the complex strategies that Zoro and Luffy used ?, because Naruto and Sasuke dont only have a feats individually but have also together.Naruto and Sasuke are absolutely not more skilled than Luffy and Zoro. Perhaps in terms of strategy, but outside of that Zoro himself would blow away Sasuke in terms of skill and swordsmanship. Also Zoro and Luffy both have feats of instantly creating complex strategies after seeing an opponents strength and powers.
being able to analyze and create counter measures on the fly is a skill.The ability to plan =/= being more skilled.
an example ?In terms of shown fests and outright combat Zoro has the significant edge in that regard.
Sasuke did the same thing when he was 5 years old. both Naruto and Sasuke later on do thisHell Luffy himself can copy attacks after only seeing them once.
it comes from fusing his Kurama Clones, each which are identical to the original.Imma need scans for that 3x amp.
All the feats are in the profiles in the intelligence.You have an example of the complex strategies that Zoro and Luffy used, because Naruto and Sasuke dont only have a feats individually but have also together.
Not what I was saying. Mike Tyson would still beat the shit out of Rick from Rick and Morty in hand to hand even with his strategies. It's skill but not 1:1 with actual showings of skill like in Baki or Kengan.being able to analyze and create counter measures on the fly is a skill.
His intelligence is full of them.an example
Scan?Sasuke did the same thing when he was 5 years old. both Naruto and Sasuke later on do this.
Still gonna need a scan.it comes from fusing his Kurama Clones, each which are identical to the original.
it is back to narusasku vs lufzoroPetition to change the match back and just have someone make a new one (deleting it all is bs).