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It had to be done | Naruto and Sasuke vs Luffy and Zoro | 11-0-0 (grace ended)

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speedster352 said:
Actually Sasuke has the rinnegan which is stated in the databook to have the most powerful genjutsu so it’s another layer so maybe 8 to 9 layers
Click to expand...
Sasuke rinengan is not up to 8 layers.

Normal genjustu<ocular genjustu <mangyeko sharingan genjustu <shisui kotoamatsukami <infinite tsukyomi <sasuke genjustu.

So it is 7 layers.
So I think zoro is out of this fight . With luffy I'm not sure how 7 against 7 fair . But tbh he won't be able to take naruto and sasuke together
 
Neither Luffy and Zoro has resistance to EE or Deconstruction, so TSO GG if they hit.

Luffy has future sight and is vastly faster so he should be able to dodge them. Zoro is probably screwed tho.
 
Also, Naruto has limited invulnerability. Any attacks that aren't physical or enhanced by natural energy is worthless against Naruto. Tho I guess this won't do much since neither Luffy nor Zoro has magic attacks or any of the sort, maybe it can nullify Buso or Hao infusion? Idk.
 
Leaning the Nard and Sauce duo.

Flight and AOE Spam
Well first off, both are capable of flying whereas only Luffy is capable of it, which would normally be fine since Zoro can use ariel cuts and jump high enough to reach them up to a certain point(as we saw in the King fight) but with the sheer AOE Nard is capable of with Bijuu Bombs, Giant Rasengan Barrages, Rasenshurikens that can dura neg at a cellular level, hundreds of clones that can spam ninjutsu or spam their own clones, Truth Seeking Orbs, and Sasuke's long-range ninjutsu like Susanoo Arrows or CT.

Genjutsu GG
On top of Nard's ninjutsu, Sasuke has his own GJ which should be at a superior level to Infinite Tsukuyomi as he is capable of resisting. and since GJ can not only knock someone out but can also completely paralyze their bodies, he would be able to completely subdue them and use Chibaku Tensei(power null) on either of them to seal if needed. On top of that Sasuke has shown his capacity to use GJ so subtly that even people with the ability to resist it don't realize they're under it because he's only just slightly changing what their senses perceive to fool them and to make it worse neither Luffy nor Zoro have the mental resistances to deal with GJ on Sasuke's level even with Haki layers which if we generously used them as mental resistance layers is only like 6 or 7 layers.

EoS Sasuke GJ Potency: Regular genjutsu < 1 tomoe < 2 tomoe < 3 tomoe < MS < Tsukuyomi < EMS < Koto < IT < Tomoe Rinnegan(Sauce's tier)

Is the speed gap enough?
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them. A good example is Kaguya who gained in Zetsu's words an exponential increase in speed and has the byakugan's enhanced senses but was still incapable of tagging either of them due to their tactics, enhanced reactions, and various evasive jutsu(shadow clones, transformation jutsu, Amenotejikara, substitution jutsu, etc.)

500 IQ Nardo
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skilled in a world of combat geniuses whereas Luffy and Zoro are typically the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offensive strategy(at least in Zoro's case.). At the very least it’s safe to say Luffy and Zoro aren’t as strategically sound as someone like Law who's plans are not that impressive compared to Sasuke deconstructing Deidara and Danzo's strategies or Naruto's unpredictable fighting style letting him fight people much stronger than him.

Luffy and Zoro slam in a lift-off tho lets be frr
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long.

Stamina stuff
Full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits which based on Wano and later egghead for Luffy, is at best a few hours of combat. Whereas Nard and Sauce can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly lesser chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.

Future Sight tho
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, we also know from Katakuri that you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS effectively, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention, FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara, nor would it save him from Genjutsu (more often than not, Luffy's not going to FS, see himself unconscious in the future, assume he should close his eyes and then do so before Sasuke glances into his eyes to incap him at least one time during their fight.)

Dura neg gg
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen or vitality, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up genetically recreate them with his Yang Seal, but with SPSM's invulnerability to Ninjutsu(physical and spiritual energy) you might be able to argue the Buso Haki emitted wouldn't hurt Naruto at all.

Nature vs Laughter
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.

idc what side you're on Luffy accidentally taking out Zoro with Bajrang would be hilarious
Bajrang Gun is a possible wincon for Luffy as it is L5B, but this is only if he escapes all the crazy AOE abilities, hax, and teamwork Nard and Sauce are known for at the start. But even then it's also possible for Sasuke to just switch Luffy with a rock on the ground and just have him slam Bajrang into the floor, or worse Sasuke switches with Zoro, and Luffy unalives him with Bajrang Gun.

The jutsu that created and killed 5-B Naruto is still pretty strong
A last resort that Luffy or Zoro will have to worry about in this fight as well is the Six Path Chibaku Tensei, because the jutsu only requires both Nard and Sauce to tag one of them with their dominant hands at the same time, which is a very feasible wincon that will remove either Luffy or Zoro from the fight entirely as it power nulls you into a moon-sized rock and sends you flying into space. The technique is proven to work on people who are significantly stronger than Naruto and Sasuke too in IT Kaguya.


Nard and Sauce Advantages
  • Better AP outside of Bajrang Gun(which probably isn't landing ngl)
  • Better Combat Intelligence and Skill
  • Some pretty annoying hax that Luffy and Zoro can't get around(TSO, Amenotejikara, GJ, SPCT, etc.)
  • A better argument for stamina
  • A lot of evasive abilities to keep away from Luffy and Zoro (substitutions, Amenotejikara, clones,)
  • Better aerial maneuverability since Zolo can't really fly.
  • Better range (mainly cause Zoro's range can't compete with the other three yet),
  • A better argument for lasting longer in a prolonged fight(Luffy really needs to finally have a form where he doesn't pass out after an hour of fighting in it.)
  • Nard can get stronger with Nature Energy
  • Potential argument for invulnerable to BA Haki for Naruto (SPSM makes Nard immune to ninjutsu aka spiritual and physical energies)

Monke Dee and Zolo Advantages
  • Better speed
  • Luffy's inherent resistance to blunt attacks.
  • An AP ability stronger than either Nard or Sauce have in Bajrang Gun,
  • Dura neg via Luffy's Beyond Advanced Busoshoku Haki
  • Luffy's Future Sight
  • Better Lifting Strength
 
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Again, they don't have counters for Sasuke's genjutsu attacks, as he can attack on far more complex ways than just knocking someone out
 
Godernet said:
Leaning the Nard and Sauce duo.

Flight and AOE Spam
Well first off, both are capable of flying whereas only Luffy is capable of it, which would normally be fine since Zoro can use ariel cuts and jump high enough to reach them up to a certain point(as we saw in the King fight) but with the sheer AOE Nard is capable of with Bijuu Bombs, Giant Rasengan Barrages, Rasenshurikens that can dura neg at a cellular level, hundreds of clones that can spam ninjutsu or spam their own clones, Truth Seeking Orbs, and Sasuke's long-range ninjutsu like Susanoo Arrows or CT.

Genjutsu GG
On top of Nard's ninjutsu, Sasuke has his own GJ which should be at a superior level to Infinite Tsukuyomi as he is capable of resisting. and since GJ can not only knock someone out but can also completely paralyze their bodies, he would be able to completely subdue them and use Chibaku Tensei(power null) on either of them to seal if needed. On top of that Sasuke has shown his capacity to use GJ so subtly that even people with the ability to resist it don't realize they're under it because he's only just slightly changing what their senses perceive to fool them and to make it worse neither Luffy nor Zoro have the mental resistances to deal with GJ on Sasuke's level even with Haki layers which if we generously used them as mental resistance layers is only like 6 or 7 layers.

EoS Sasuke GJ Potency: Regular genjutsu < 1 tomoe < 2 tomoe < 3 tomoe < MS < Tsukuyomi < EMS < Koto < IT < Tomoe Rinnegan(Sauce's tier)

Is the speed gap enough?
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them. A good example is Kaguya who gained in Zetsu's words an exponential increase in speed and has the byakugan's enhanced senses but was still incapable of tagging either of them due to their tactics, enhanced reactions, and various evasive jutsu(shadow clones, transformation jutsu, Amenotejikara, etc.)

500 IQ Nardo
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skill in a world of combat geniuses where whereas Luffy and Zoro are usually the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offense(at least in Zoro's case.). at the very least its safe to say Luffy and Zoro arent as strategically sound as someone like Law who's plans are not that impressive compared to Sasuke deconstructing Deidara and Danzo's strategies or Naruto's unpredictable fighting style letting him fight people much stronger than him.

Luffy and Zoro slam in a lift-off tho lets be frr
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long.

Stamina stuff
Also, full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits, whereas Nard and Sasuke can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly smaller chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.

Future Sight tho
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, as we know from Kat, you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention, FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara, nor would it save him from Genjutsu (more often than not, Luffy's not going to FS, see himself unconscious, and close his eyes before Sasuke glances at him one time)

Dura neg gg
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up replace them with his Yang Seal, but with SPSM's invulnerability to Ninjutsu(physical and spiritual energy) you might be able to argue the Buso Haki emitted wouldn't hurt Naruto.

Nature vs Laughter
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.

idc what side you're on Luffy accidentally taking out Zoro with Bajrang would be hilarious
Bajrang Gun is a possible wincon for Luffy as it is L5B, but this is only if he escapes all the crazy AOE abilities, hax, and teamwork Nard and Sauce are known for at the start. But even then it's also possible for Sasuke to just switch Luffy with a rock on the ground and just have him slam Bajrang into the floor, or worse Sasuke switches with Zoro, and Luffy kills him with Bajrang.

The jutsu that created and killed 5-B Naruto is still pretty strong
A last resort that Luffy or Zoro will have to worry about in this fight is the Six Path Chibaku Tensei, because the jutsu only requires both Nard and Sauce to tag one of them with their dominant hands it is a very possible wincon that will remove either Luffy or Zoro from the fight entirely as it power nulls you into a moon-sized rock and sends you flying into space. The technique is proven to work on people who are significantly stronger than Naruto and Sasuke in IT Kaguya.


Nard and Sauce Advantages
  • Better AP outside of Bajrang Gun(which probably isn't landing ngl)
  • Better Combat Intelligence and Skill
  • Some pretty annoying hax that Luffy and Zoro can't get around(TSO, Amenotejikara, GJ, SPCT, etc.)
  • A better argument for stamina
  • A lot of evasive abilities to keep away from Luffy and Zoro (substitutions, Amenotejikara, clones,)
  • Better aerial maneuverability since Zolo can't really fly.
  • Better range (mainly cause Zoro's range can't compete with the other three yet),
  • A better argument for lasting longer in a prolonged fight(Luffy really needs to finally have a form where he doesn't pass out after an hour of fighting in it.)
  • Nard can get stronger with Nature Energy
  • Potential argument for invulnerable to BA Haki for Naruto (SPSM makes Nard immune to ninjutsu aka spiritual and physical energies)

Monke Dee and Zolo Advantages
  • Better speed
  • Luffy's inherent resistance to blunt attacks.
  • An AP ability stronger than either Nard or Sauce have in Bajrang Gun,
  • Dura neg via Luffy's Beyond Advanced Busoshoku Haki
  • Luffy's Future Sight
  • Better Lifting Strength
Click to expand...
good write up . FRA
 
I'd personally say Luffy on equal terms with Naruto & Sasuke from a skill perspective but I agree with Godernet.
 
Zoro doesn't have FS, so round start he tries to clash with Naruto's TSO Rod and Enma just disappears. That's already a big nerf for Zoro even if he avoided Naruto's TSO from that point.

Unless Luffy goes "Zoro! Don't touch those black thingies!" with his Future Sight.

With FS and higher speed Luffy would very likely know that TSO is instant GG and avoids that from the start. This would also make Luffy very hesitant to use Bajrang Gun, knowing Naruto can just make a TSO barrier and then suddenly his arm is gone.
 
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Gonna preface this by saying ima stand on switching Zoro out for Sanji (He can fly and has better amps making this more fair for the 2v2)

Godernet said:
Flight and AOE Spam
Well first off, both are capable of flying whereas only Luffy is capable of it, which would normally be fine since Zoro can use ariel cuts and jump high enough to reach them up to a certain point(as we saw in the King fight) but with the sheer AOE Nard is capable of with Bijuu Bombs, Giant Rasengan Barrages, Rasenshurikens that can dura neg at a cellular level, hundreds of clones that can spam ninjutsu or spam their own clones, Truth Seeking Orbs, and Sasuke's long-range ninjutsu like Susanoo Arrows or CT.
Click to expand...
I very honestly don't see this as an issue for Zoro. Not only does he have really good Kenbun which grants him several kilometers of range (due to being at least relative to BoTS Luffy), which would allow him to see all of their attacks before they even get launched from kilometers away, but Zoro himself has some pretty good range, which would allow him to easily fight off Bijuu Bombs via flame rend, Resengan Barrages and clones with his own AoE attacks like Tatsumaki, Rasenshuriken with his Haki (defends against attacks to an sub-atomic level). Susanoo Arrows and TSOs get dealt via Buso Emission taking the attack for him, and I'm not sure what CT is.
Godernet said:
Genjutsu GG
On top of Nard's ninjutsu, Sasuke has his own GJ which should be at a superior level to Infinite Tsukuyomi as he is capable of resisting. and since GJ can not only knock someone out but can also completely paralyze their bodies, he would be able to completely subdue them and use Chibaku Tensei(power null) on either of them to seal if needed. On top of that Sasuke has shown his capacity to use GJ so subtly that even people with the ability to resist it don't realize they're under it because he's only just slightly changing what their senses perceive to fool them and to make it worse neither Luffy nor Zoro have the mental resistances to deal with GJ on Sasuke's level even with Haki layers which if we generously used them as mental resistance layers is only like 6 or 7 layers.

EoS Sasuke GJ Potency: Regular genjutsu < 1 tomoe < 2 tomoe < 3 tomoe < MS < Tsukuyomi < EMS < Koto < IT < Tomoe Rinnegan(Sauce's tier)
Click to expand...
Genjutsu effects the 5 senses. Kenbunshoku (when active) acts like a different medium, allowing them to hear, feel, see, smell, taste things outside of the mind, which is why Rayleigh referred to it as being beyond tricks of the mind.

Because of this, I don't see why even if they are hit by a Genjutsu, they wouldn't still be able to fight. They'd still feel everything going on in reality.
Godernet said:
Is the speed gap enough?
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them. A good example is Kaguya who gained in Zetsu's words an exponential increase in speed and has the byakugan's enhanced senses but was still incapable of tagging either of them due to their tactics, enhanced reactions, and various evasive jutsu(shadow clones, transformation jutsu, Amenotejikara, etc.)
Click to expand...
Considering Zoro and Luffy have the same (arguably to a greater degree) with Luffy flatout having Future Sight, I don't think this would change much.
Godernet said:
500 IQ Nardo
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skill in a world of combat geniuses where whereas Luffy and Zoro are usually the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offense(at least in Zoro's case.). at the very least its safe to say Luffy and Zoro arent as strategically sound as someone like Law who's plans are not that impressive compared to Sasuke deconstructing Deidara and Danzo's strategies or Naruto's unpredictable fighting style letting him fight people much stronger than him.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't understand how you can say that Sasuke and Naruto are more skilled and intelligent in battle than Luffy and Zoro. At the very least they're relative.

Zoro's skill and intelligence lies in his ability to understand and dissect his opponents' abilities and counter accordingly. When he first saw Mr. 2's ability, he was able to near-instantly think of a way to bypass it so that the crew won't get mixed up. Against Pica, Zoro was able to come up with multiple solutions instantly, and quickly figure out the weakness to his ability, and once he did so, he was able to trap Pica by sending out several strategical slashes (all happening in the moment without prior thinking), revealing his true body. Zoro was also able to quickly understand how Kaku's abilities worked.
Godernet said:
Luffy and Zoro slam in a lift-off tho lets be frr
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long.
Click to expand...
Maybe not, but Luffy's FS and Zoro's Kenbun would allow them to know where they'd pop up before they even use Substitution Jutsu or Amenotejikara, and with their superior speed, they'd land these attacks more often than not.
Godernet said:
Stamina stuff
Also, full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits, whereas Nard and Sasuke can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly smaller chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.
Click to expand...
There's no proof that KoH is very energy-consuming for Zoro at this point. During his fight with King, it was only stated that EU is what was draining his energy, and this was after an extended fight with King, fighting Big Mom and Kaidou on rooftop, and sustaining pretty rough injuries that were slowly coming back twofold. He was able to use ACoC freely.

Now in Egghead, we see Zoro using EU without any issues or signs of it being nearly as stamina draining as it was during Wano, so as of right now, it's just as draining as any other ability is.

As for Luffy, using Gear 4th does not drain much stamina for him. He was able to use it across several rooftop battles with Kaidou over the span of ~4 hours. As for Gear 5th, while it does have a time limit, I doubt Luffy can simply beat his heart again to keep going for as long as he needs.

Regardless of these two facts, Luffy and Zoro can simply fight sparingly with these Gear 5 or Enma Unleashed if they need to like Zoro did against King.
Godernet said:
Future Sight tho
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, as we know from Kat, you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention, FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara, nor would it save him from Genjutsu (more often than not, Luffy's not going to FS, see himself unconscious, and close his eyes before Sasuke glances at him one time)
Click to expand...
Luffy has only had 1 big battle since awakening FS against Katakuri, in his fight with Kaidou, and in that fight, we see Luffy actively using FS to avoid and hit attacks, and just like we deduce Kenbun in fights, we can do similar things for Luffy, just like how Katakuri used it, especially considering during the entirety of Luffy's snakeman assault against Kaidou, he was apparently using FS according to the latter without any visual indication of it.

Needing to be especially 'calm' in order to use FS is a common misconception. It was never stated that FS specifically needs calmness in order to be effecting. it was only stated for Kenbun in general, which aligns with what Satori said in Skypiea. Back to what Katakuri said, you don't need to be calm to use Kenbun, you just need to be in a normal state, which he was not, being very angry, embarrassed, and annoyed.

Luffy has never shown in pretty much any battle ever to lose focus and intent like that in a fight, so this would not happen to him.

As for Gear 5 being the complete opposite of that, what is this based on? If you're talking about his goofy nature, that's just Luffy having fun, which we've seen him use FS while doing before. Luffy in Gear 5 does not lose focus or intent during battle, he's just having fun.
Godernet said:
Dura neg gg
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up replace them with his Yang Seal, but with SPSM's invulnerability to Ninjutsu(physical and spiritual energy) you might be able to argue the Buso Haki emitted wouldn't hurt Naruto.
Click to expand...
Hao and Buso grant resistance to regeneration, so Naruto's Kurama Chakra wouldn't help here. Replacing them with the Yang Seal might work, but I really doubt he'd have time to do this when getting hit with hundreds of attacks at once. Haki also has resistance negation, so Naruto's resistance to attacks like that would be negated, even if we do equalize the two (which I don't agree to regardless)
Godernet said:
Nature vs Laughter
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.
Click to expand...
Luffy's more unquantifiable amps that allow him to near-oneshot an opponent he clashed with prior to his laughing amp?
Godernet said:
idc what side you're on Luffy accidentally taking out Zoro with Bajrang would be hilarious
Bajrang Gun is a possible wincon for Luffy as it is L5B, but this is only if he escapes all the crazy AOE abilities, hax, and teamwork Nard and Sauce are known for at the start. But even then it's also possible for Sasuke to just switch Luffy with a rock on the ground and just have him slam Bajrang into the floor, or worse Sasuke switches with Zoro, and Luffy kills him with Bajrang.
Click to expand...
Luffy could simply throw Zoro out of the way.

As for Sasuke switching places with Luffy or Zoro, their Haki would allow them to resist getting moved.
Godernet said:
The jutsu that created and killed 5-B Naruto is still pretty strong
A last resort that Luffy or Zoro will have to worry about in this fight is the Six Path Chibaku Tensei, because the jutsu only requires both Nard and Sauce to tag one of them with their dominant hands it is a very possible wincon that will remove either Luffy or Zoro from the fight entirely as it power nulls you into a moon-sized rock and sends you flying into space. The technique is proven to work on people who are significantly stronger than Naruto and Sasuke in IT Kaguya.
Click to expand...
The issue with this is that Luffy would see it coming with his FS and would warn Zoro about it. Even if they do get hit, What would stop Luffy from Bajrang Gunning it?
 
We giving everyone who’s ever tanked lightning without damage durability down to the sub atomic level now? All lightning manip users getting sub atomic durability for interacting with lightning 🗿 Luffy being able to interact with lightning doesn’t mean he’s defending against attacks on a sub-atomic level goon.

Voting Naruto and Sasuke for Net’s reasons.
 
Kachon123 said:
Luffy's more unquantifiable amps that allow him to near-oneshot an opponent he clashed with prior to his laughing amp?
Click to expand...
Naruto's boil release can amp him to the point that he blew away Kaguya's vacuum fist instantly and knocked her back, the same vacuum fist that can repeatedly one shot Sasuke's perfect susanoo, the same susnaoo that can match his Kurama avatar thats already a massive amp to himself.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
We giving everyone who’s ever tanked lightning without damage durability down to the sub atomic level now? All lightning manip users getting sub atomic durability for interacting with lightning 🗿 Luffy being able to interact with lightning doesn’t mean he’s defending against attacks on a sub-atomic level goon.
Click to expand...
? I'm referring to his rubberification and toon force? He was able to turn lightning into rubber. That's by definition sub-atomic transmutation.
 
Kachon123 said:
? I'm referring to his rubberification and toon force? He was able to turn lightning into rubber. That's by definition sub-atomic transmutation.
Click to expand...
Which isn’t the same as being able to defend against attacks on a sub-atomic level. You’re absolutely right it’s transmutation, that’s it.
 
Boil Release gives Naruto a ginormous AP advantage.

Boil Release Naruto > Kaguya > (one shot) Sasuke's Susano'o = Kurama Avatar > Naruto

Given the OP characters are at an AP disadvantage to begin with, that thing is a one-shot.

Also has anyone considered Amaterasu?
 
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Sanji might actually speed blitz the ninjas with Ifrit Jambe. Though he won't be able to hurt Perfect Susano'o or Kurama Avatar.
 
Godernet said:
Another issue for Luffy and Zoro is that Nard and Sauce have an advantage of far as combat intelligence and adaptability, and more than likely skill in general, both of them being able to make multi-stage plans on the fly and being notably skilled in a world of combat geniuses whereas Luffy and Zoro are typically the types to adapt to an opponent's fighting style as they try to attack them with a pretty linear offensive strategy(at least in Zoro's case.).
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Naruto and Sasuke are absolutely not more skilled than Luffy and Zoro. Perhaps in terms of strategy, but outside of that Zoro himself would blow away Sasuke in terms of skill and swordsmanship. Also Zoro and Luffy both have feats of instantly creating complex strategies after seeing an opponents strength and powers.


The ability to plan =/= being more skilled. In terms of shown fests and outright combat Zoro has the significant edge in that regard. Hell Luffy himself can copy attacks after only seeing them once.
Godernet said:
Luffy and Zoro do have a speed advantage, but with Sasuke's Sharingan enhanced perception and analytical prediction along with Naruto's enhanced perceptions via Six Paths Sage Mode and ability to sense emotions, intent, etc. they can react and keep up with things that would otherwise blitz them.
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You do realize both Zoro and Luffy also have vastly better forms of precognition correct? Sharingan Prediction is hardly relevant given that Luffy can outright out Predict the both of them, has experience in fighting people with precognition, is faster than the duo and speaking of un-predictable that's G5's entire shtick. So i really doubt Nard and Sasuke are going to have an easy time avoiding attacks from faster characters, that excel in unpredictable attacks while both have significant experience in dealing with folks with better senses and precognition than the ninja duo.
Godernet said:
Luffy and Zoro do have better LS but with substitution jutsu or Amenotejikara, they aren't going to be able to hold onto them for very long
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Substitution jutsu gets directly countered by the fact that both Zoro and Luffy would be able to tell the location of where they'd swap to and simply attack there instead. With the edge in speed pulling this off shouldn't be an issue for them at all.
Godernet said:
Full use of G4, G5, or KoH are very energy-consuming on Luffy and Zoro and can incap both of them when they reach their limits which based on Wano and later egghead for Luffy, is at best a few hours of combat. Whereas Nard and Sauce can fight for potentially days if needed. We see examples of this with characters with significantly lesser chakra reserves like Hashirama and Madara capable of fighting for 24 hours straight, and someone like the 3rd Raikage capable of fighting 10,000 Shinobi for 3 days straight. We've even seen in the second Naruto vs Sasuke that they both can go half a day fighting just h2h while incredibly low on chakra the entire time.
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Full use of G4 doesn't drain him nearly as much anymore, furthermore he was able to previously use G4 for nearly a day straight (couple hours iirc.) Also I'd disagree with Nard and Sasuke going at it for days on end here, I very much doubt they can spam their most potent abilities without running out of Chakra at some point. Especially since they'll need to be using everything they have given that they're the slower of the two.



Luffy and Zoro scale to much higher stamina feats without the usage of Haki anyway. Fodder in One Piece can fight for days, they both scale to character's who could fight for 5 days and 5 nights non stop.



Godernet said:
Luffy's FS is a good advantage for him but in more heated fights we see that he's not always actively attempting to use it, we also know from Katakuri that you need to be somewhat calm and focused to use FS effectively, and G5 is the exact opposite of that, not to mention
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This one doesn't work either, he's been spamming it ever since he got it. Kaidou can use FS while drunk and bloodlusted, a calm mind is required but that doesn't mean much in the long run. G5 is still able to use FS perfectly, him laughing has nothing to do with that.
Godernet said:
FS won't save him if he's dropped into a large AOE attack by Sasuke's Amenotejikara,
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Amenotejikara is irrelevant since Buso is resistant to spatial manipulation.
Godernet said:
BA Hao might be an ok argument against Sasuke if Luffy hits him with it since he has no great regen or vitality, but not only can Naruto regen whole organs with Kurama's chakra or straight up genetically recreate them with his Yang Seal,
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Naruto's regeneration doesn't cover the extend of damage BA Hao can produce. The size of the explosions would be much larger and destructive than anything Naruto has ever recovered from.
Godernet said:
G5 Luffy also does get stronger the more he laughs but Naruto can also do the same by absorbing surrounding nature energy which can give him an at least 3x amp to Luffy's more unquantifiable amps via laughter.
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Imma need scans for that 3x amp.
 
LordGinSama said:
Naruto and Sasuke are absolutely not more skilled than Luffy and Zoro. Perhaps in terms of strategy, but outside of that Zoro himself would blow away Sasuke in terms of skill and swordsmanship. Also Zoro and Luffy both have feats of instantly creating complex strategies after seeing an opponents strength and powers.
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You have an example of the complex strategies that Zoro and Luffy used ?, because Naruto and Sasuke dont only have a feats individually but have also together.
LordGinSama said:
The ability to plan =/= being more skilled.
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being able to analyze and create counter measures on the fly is a skill.
LordGinSama said:
In terms of shown fests and outright combat Zoro has the significant edge in that regard.
Click to expand...
an example ?
LordGinSama said:
Hell Luffy himself can copy attacks after only seeing them once.
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Sasuke did the same thing when he was 5 years old. both Naruto and Sasuke later on do this
LordGinSama said:
Imma need scans for that 3x amp.
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it comes from fusing his Kurama Clones, each which are identical to the original.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
You have an example of the complex strategies that Zoro and Luffy used, because Naruto and Sasuke dont only have a feats individually but have also together.
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All the feats are in the profiles in the intelligence.
Shadowbokunohero said:
being able to analyze and create counter measures on the fly is a skill.
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Not what I was saying. Mike Tyson would still beat the shit out of Rick from Rick and Morty in hand to hand even with his strategies. It's skill but not 1:1 with actual showings of skill like in Baki or Kengan.
Shadowbokunohero said:
an example
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His intelligence is full of them.
Shadowbokunohero said:
Sasuke did the same thing when he was 5 years old. both Naruto and Sasuke later on do this.
Click to expand...
Scan?
Shadowbokunohero said:
it comes from fusing his Kurama Clones, each which are identical to the original.
Click to expand...
Still gonna need a scan.
 
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