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Hm? I think he meant to add the "higher with haki" part, he didn't say anything about changing keys. I agree with the L7B part, btw, it makes no sense to add such a massive low-end to Luffy, so if everyone keeps 7A this L7B end should be removed.
What do you mean by "everyone keeps 7-A"?
 
I'm not even sure which key you are referring to but I don't like it. Are you suggesting we group everything from RTS to Wano under one key? I don't agree with that. I also think the 7-B is irrelevant. Luffy should get a much higher rating going back to Paramount feats, then his Post-TS keys can scale from that until Doflamingo, Cracker, & katakuri (these being the only fights that pushed him and give him a boost).
Luffy's first key is from Post TS to Whole-Cake after his first round with Katakuri--before he resolves to evolve his Haki in order to see the future. That's how it's always been due to there literally being 0 evidence of Luffy growing stronger since Dressrosa until his fight with Kata.

And i'm going based off of CURRENTLY ACCEPTED stats. Not proposed changes.
 
Pre-Cracker Luffy only scaled to small city level iirc in base and no higher than mountain in Gear 3. POst cracker you have his base scaling to 377(ish) and Gear 3 was able to drag Katakuri into Mirror world.
 
Pre-Cracker Luffy only scaled to small city level iirc in base and no higher than mountain in Gear 3. POst cracker you have his base scaling to 377(ish) and Gear 3 was able to drag Katakuri into Mirror world.
Base Luffy in his first key gets scaling for a feat he performs in Whole-Cake (for the likely 7-A), but if we're gonna scale Hody to Gear 2nd Luffy, then Base gets at least partial scaling anyways rofl.
 
Base Luffy in his first key gets scaling for a feat he performs in Whole-Cake (for the likely 7-A), but if we're gonna scale Hody to Gear 2nd Luffy, then Base gets at least partial scaling anyways rofl.
No he's still only small city level by feats back then not counting paramont war. 377 was after Cracker which is proof of his development.
 
No he's still only small city level by feats back then not counting paramont war. 377 was after Cracker which is proof of his development.
If you're referring to Post Time-skip Key 1, it's up until just before his 2nd round with Katakuri.
 
No he's still only small city level by feats back then not counting paramont war. 377 was after Cracker which is proof of his development.
Well, yeah, we sadly can't use the "he is the captain" logic anymore, to say he is stronger than Zoro/Sanji. But what feats he has in Marineford?
 
If you're referring to Post Time-skip Key 1, it's up until just before his 2nd round with Katakuri.
Bottom line Luffy needs to be changed. It looks like the SC comes from te robots but doesn't mention them and the Collosium fighters are a dead end. SHould change to reflect the robots then give him another key indicating mountain level after Cracker (When he has such a feat in Sanji if you want to use that).
 
But what feats he has in Marineford?
Even before MF he decked Teach and drew blood. He also remained conscious after Teach countered even though his Rubber was turned off. At MF he absorbed many hits from Kizaru and others. Now granted he was damaged but endurance can only account for so much and a difference of at least 100 is not reasonable to have him so low.
 
Also.

Can we please throw the "position" scaling out the window?

Even before MF he decked Teach and drew blood. He also remained conscious after Teach countered even though his Rubber was turned off. At MF he absorbed many hits from Kizaru and others. Now granted he was damaged but endurance can only account for so much and a difference of at least 100 is not reasonable to have him so low.
This is so valid for Mountain level pre ts, but all we'll say is "but this guy is ___ and he's stronger"
 
Even before MF he decked Teach and drew blood. He also remained conscious after Teach countered even though his Rubber was turned off. At MF he absorbed many hits from Kizaru and others. Now granted he was damaged but endurance can only account for so much and a difference of at least 100 is not reasonable to have him so low
I mean, Kizaru does not have a tier of his own iirc, literally everyone in H7A is at H7A because G4 is H7A, so if you have pre-TS Luffy at their level it wouldn't upgrade Luffy, but Teach does have his clash with Ace, what was the result of the calc?
 
Even before MF he decked Teach and drew blood. He also remained conscious after Teach countered even though his Rubber was turned off. At MF he absorbed many hits from Kizaru and others. Now granted he was damaged but endurance can only account for so much and a difference of at least 100 is not reasonable to have him so low.
To be fair, Luffy was under the affects of Ivankov's ability to keep himself going, however he definitely deserves scaling to Blackbeard (at least partially) since he could hurt him and took a hit and could keep fighting.
 
Back to the Hody multipliers

Can't he scale to Luffy G2 and with Haki, since he tanked his hits with 5 pills?

Hody would be 2 ^ 20 stronger than that version, because he fills his mouth with pills afterwards.

And Water doubles that power even more.

Hody's durability would be insane, and that would escale to the G3 because that's what Luffy use to beat him.
 
That seems like an abuse of multipliers just to get higher ratings tbh. Hody doesn't have the feats to back it up.
 
It has been a while for me but wasn't it said the fishmen build a tolerance to the pills and end up needing more of them to have the same effect?
 
That seems like an abuse of multipliers just to get higher ratings tbh. Hody doesn't have the feats to back it up.
In his defense, he never had a chance too. He got 1shot by Luffy right after.
His casual water bullets turned into water sharks also.
It has been a while for me but wasn't it said the fishmen build a tolerance to the pills and end up needing more of them to have the same effect?
The One Piece Wiki says that w/ no justification for "tolerance". I read over that arc several times just to make sure something like that wasn't a factor in the scaling.
 
Ok.

Unless I'm missing something, the only way we can close this scaling chain w/out doing a "should be comparable" (which would create another loop) is scaling Base Sai to or above Base Chinjao via Lao G.

With? Scaling chain good.
Without? Infinite loop.
 
Btw, there are any one shots that could be used to get a + or a tier jump in this part of the story? Or any zoan tier jump?
 
Btw, there are any one shots that could be used to get a + or a tier jump in this part of the story? Or any zoan tier jump?
I was avoiding it since I didn't want to abuse tier jumping like in the Wano thread (which failed), but yeah there's a lot of tier jumping.

Hakuba already gets 2x Cavendish, so he goes from Small City+ to City, but he one shows Dellinger who's Small City Level+, so another justification.
Don Sai one shot Lao G who's either Small City Level+ or Mountain, which would potentially give him either City Level or Mountain+.
Dellinger one shot Ideo when he turned bloodlusted.

Check my sandbox and tell me what can be upgraded, and we can decide in here if it's good/valid enough for tier jumps.
 
Alright.

Are we scaling Sai to Lao G or no, and why.

I checked every possible combination, every respect thread, read dressrosa and punk hazard twice each, scanned their VSBW profiles, scanned their OPW profiles, looked for SBS statements, everything.

Either we scale Sai to Lao G, or we have circle scaling.

Also, Sai and Ideo were tired and injured when they got one shot by Luffy and Chinjao, so that's not an argument.

What are we doing?
 
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The only thing that comes from it, everybody who was small city before is mountain, hakuba, robin, and those who scale are mountain+, and so on.

My ideas for Vergo is that he’s > Sanji’s dura. Sanji took a hit from Jinbe and no Haki G2 Luffy, so he scales to them (not both).

Base Luffy has no justification.

Monet has no justification.

Viola has no justification.
 
I don't think that they should be all Mountain level. They should still be scaling to Small City level vai Don Chinjao's calc.

And I don't think that avoiding Don Sai = Lao G would necessarily force us into circular scaling.
 
A good amount of the characters would be 7A due to scaling above Hody anyway no?
That depends on whether the multipliers for Hody Jones are used, and what exact values he scales to.
 
Tempest surely wants to use the multipliers and i didn't see anyone else disagreeing with them, the final value was 369 megatons iirc.
 
Tempest surely wants to use the multipliers and i didn't see anyone else disagreeing with them, the final value was 369 megatons iirc.
I don't agree with the underwater multiplier being used, and I don't think that the idea of giving him 20 multipliers is that supported by his feats. Stacking multipliers to get higher results makes me very uneasy when we could more commonly just go by the feats of the characters themselves.
 
It doesn't sound like there is agreement to change anything and this thread is at 480 posts now . . .
 
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