• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

New profile posts

What's new New posts New media New media comments New profile posts Latest activity
XxZetsuxX
Hi friend, I would like to invite you to this thread i made;

vsbattles.com

Bungou Stray Dogs - Abilities, Fixing and Cosmology CRT

I would like to thank @RoggerReggor (For giving scans and also revising everything) and @Zefra3011 (For also helping with the revision) Osamu Dazai; Dazai key; 9-B, Far higher with Preparation, 2-A with "The book" Master Hand to Hand Combatent- (Did Spartan training alongside his...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Eseseso
vsbattles.com

Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

Also, we got stuff like Doctor Doom and Scarlet Witch resisting the mind hax of the Darkhold, which has Low 1-A potency due to its power "permeating in all realities", with each reality in Marvel being Low 1-A. Doom also resisted the madness hax of Chthon, who is High 1-A. we also have stuff...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Figured you'd like to see this.
Dust_Collector
Dust_Collector
huh, surprised Odin wasn't brought up sooner for 3-C considering Mario and Spongebob are on there lol
First_Witch
Hey ho, I remember you having a interest in the fields of combat skill, you wrote a Blog about right? Well I also took a stab at it and wrote one and wanted to hear your opinion, if you have the time obviously. Its a rough draft and im not even sure if I will ever finish it, considering that i dont have the abilities necessary to write a proper information blog. But I also dont want it to rot in one of my many sandboxes.

See post below for link, forum bad
  • Like
Reactions: EliminatorVenom
View previous comments…
EliminatorVenom
EliminatorVenom
Hey! Yes, I did write one a loooong time ago, and I'd love to check yours!

Gimme a second-
EliminatorVenom
EliminatorVenom
Sorry for the long time to answer.

An in-depth answer of mine and my thoughts on the analysis would take a very, very long time and an equally large answer, so I will try to be as succinct as possible.

On the topics and aspects of skill taken into account, I agree on the topics and on the sections it was analysed in, and therefore, on the applications skill could and does have in battle through the different powers that may be expressed therein. I particularly like the Senses part as that is the easiest example of superhuman skill being doable. Giving a very basic example, Tex Willer is a character that has very acute, if not outright superhuman vision and he can see precisely even people who are very far away, and using that, combined with his incredibly steady hand and sheer experience and subconscious calculations in the usage of a rifle, he managed to land a headshot with a rifle despite being at more than twice the rifle's maximum effective range, and rather quickly at that. I'd add intellect on that section, as sufficient intellect can translate into skill as well, either the actively thought about kind and the more instinctual one. Tex is an instinctual example, and giving an active intellectual kind being used as skill, consider the Vindicare Assassin from 40K. If I am not mistaken, there is one tale in the lore about a Vindicare tasked to eliminate a target on the moon of a planet he was on. His gun could reach said target, but even its super-advanced optics could not really find their target. However, the Vindicare had access of their exact coordinates on the moon, and using that info, and meticulously calculating all variables and possibilities, they made a shot that managed to hit and kill their target.

Now, onto the quantification of skill. Here, I am in slight disagreement with you. I do appreciate the quantification, and it isn't an entirely inapplicable concept, but it is something that needs to be done incredibly carefully. Skill is so very incredibly subjective in an infinitely fractal way that it really is impossible to quantify it aside from very general terms or when the difference is very blatant. Even something like Analytical Prediction can be very subjective. A real life, personal example of this is something I have noticed through my life practicing martial arts, and in my case, boxing. Even the less skill-oriented boxers I trained with could somewhat consistently predict punches as long as they were in a calm situation. However, the same was not true with kicks, pushes or even clinching - so there we have decently good Analytical Prediction, but mostly limited to punches, to the point that they could get the wrong tells from attempting to predict a kick at the times I saw myself and some colleagues friendly sparring with some Muay Thai practitioners. This is a very simple example, but I could go far, far beyond in complexity and in situations.

I also must point out a certain disagreement with the Limitations category. Skill is absolutely tied to powers as well, and the correct usage of powers and the appropriate reaction to them is fundamentally a part of skill, even if sometimes it is verse-specific, and commonly cross-related to other forms of skill. Avatar: the Last Airbender is a good example of simple, elemental powers being wielded skillfully, tied with skill in martial arts and acrobatics in a very explicit way. In fact, Superhuman Skill is a conceivable ability given inhuman levels of the same abilities described in your post, or with even minimal additions. One with Energy Manipulation, even if restricted to just manipulating how energy spreads from their own blows, can potentially grow into practically Durability Negation with sufficient precision if they concentrate all energy on the fractally small point of space at the tip of their blow, and even a Wall level strike that has all their energy concentrated on that infinitely small point can cleave through far greater levels of durability. Just to be clear, I am not saying that such cases are always due to sheer skill instead of some misinterpretation of the author - but even said feat, unless explicitly made easy by verse-specific mechanics, is a very remarkable level of skill in self-control, energy manipulation and, most importantly, precision.

Lastly, I really enjoyed the section about the false friends of skill and the way you tackled the issue. The rationale you expanded upon in that section is something I wish way more people read and thought about.
First_Witch
First_Witch
Heyo, thanks for your reply.

Intellect is basically on it the list under combat related Knowledge.

It is true that Quantification AND Qualification of Skill is a hard endeavor, but it is important to remember that we are talking about fictional skill here;

A real life, personal example of this is something I have noticed through my life practicing martial arts, and in my case, boxing. Even the less skill-oriented boxers I trained with could somewhat consistently predict punches as long as they were in a calm situation. However, the same was not true with kicks, pushes or even clinching - so there we have decently good Analytical Prediction, but mostly limited to punches, to the point that they could get the wrong tells from attempting to predict a kick at the times I saw myself and some colleagues friendly sparring with some Muay Thai practitioners. This is a very simple example, but I could go far, far beyond in complexity and in situations.
Click to expand...

While this is perfectly true, in fiction, you don't assume such a weakness for fictional characters until it was stated as such. The same way we dont take into account fire manipulators to randomly have days or situation in which they dont have access to their fire abilitites if such a weakness wasnt stated.

So if we take a boxing series for example, if the tells which they use to predict incoming attacks are generic, such as gaze, muscle movement and more, there would be no reason to assume their analytical prediction stops working just because kicks are involved. Obviously, if the series gives its Analytical Prediction such a weakness, it should be taken into account.

So I personally think that the basic assumption should be that skill ability A should work until reasons to believe that it wont are givin. Under such assumptions, quantifications become a bit easier. Determining exact quantities and qualities are obviously impossible. You are right in that skill can technically be broken down to infinite edges and corners. But I believe rough estimation are enough to fulfil the basic idea behind a Skill debate; Whose more skilled between character A and B. If you take the variable X and Y respectivly, standing for the skill level of 2 characters, it would suffice to find out which of the variables is bigger. Even if knowing the exact number would solve this debate instantly, that is thankfully not required. The biggest hurdle is obviously comparing the abilities, but thats what debating is for ultimately.

I also must point out a certain disagreement with the Limitations category. Skill is absolutely tied to powers as well, and the correct usage of powers and the appropriate reaction to them is fundamentally a part of skill, even if sometimes it is verse-specific, and commonly cross-related to other forms of skill. Avatar: the Last Airbender is a good example of simple, elemental powers being wielded skillfully, tied with skill in martial arts and acrobatics in a very explicit way. In fact, Superhuman Skill is a conceivable ability given inhuman levels of the same abilities described in your post, or with even minimal additions. One with Energy Manipulation, even if restricted to just manipulating how energy spreads from their own blows, can potentially grow into practically Durability Negation with sufficient precision if they concentrate all energy on the fractally small point of space at the tip of their blow, and even a Wall level strike that has all their energy concentrated on that infinitely small point can cleave through far greater levels of durability. Just to be clear, I am not saying that such cases are always due to sheer skill instead of some misinterpretation of the author - but even said feat, unless explicitly made easy by verse-specific mechanics, is a very remarkable level of skill in self-control, energy manipulation and, most importantly, precision.
Click to expand...

An excellent point, but I have to rebuke this one as well. The problem with not viewing skill feats under the stated limitations is the issue of unquantifiability; Taking Analytical Prediction as example again, the reason why I believe AnaPre is both quantifiable and qualitfiable is precisly because the ability finds its roots in real life. You can reduce the ability to its lowest possible showing and start stacking up quantities and qualities onto that so long a logical link exist;

So for example, we assume the lowest and most basic showcase of AnaPre is being able to predict a offensive move is incoming. Not wether or not its a punch, a kick or a aggresiv repositioning, just that the next move is offensive in nature. You can upscale the quantity of that by saying "The next level would be able to predict the next 2 moves". At a certain level, it is basically impossible to claim a higher quantity in real life, but not in fiction. And we know that this is a upscale in skill because we have the connection in reallife. Fiction can reach those levels because its logic doesnt correlate with that of reallife. The same goes for Quality.

So the reason i put such huge emphasize on the laws of physics and biomechanics is because it helps us ground a ability withhin the confines of skill. I dont necessarily believe that a feat that does not follow those laws are strictly nonskill, I just reject the notion that they are more impressive. Worse, I find them unquantifiable, because you dont know how much exact mastery over a given foundational aspect of skill it requires. How much blade mastery is required to cut space and time apart with skill? A ton? Not more than real material? None? Whereas the hard limit of existing material being cut apart, discounting pontential strength arguments, is known and logically scaleable.

The issue hereby dosnt lie in "Is this skill", but rather in "how much skill".
LuffyRuffy46307
Could you come in, we're discussing Chucky's new abilities?
vsbattles.com

Child's Play/Chucky Discussion Thread (Potential Spoilers)

So, this discussion thread is about the franchise regarding a certain serial killer inside the body of a red-haired doll with quite a foul mouth. Considering that a television series has been around for few years now, I think it's a perfect time to gather people here to join the Cult of Chucky...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Faa_Tzy
Hi byasura. Could you please give your opinion on this NNT thread? I think you are the only active staff with experience about NNT.
DaReaperMan
vsbattles.fandom.com

Grimgor Ironhide

Grimgor Ironhide, renowned by his kind as the Green Slaughterer,[1] Gork’s Fist,[1] Da Alpha Orc,[1] the Once and Future Git[1] and the Boss of the East,[1] is considered by many to be one of the greatest Black Orc Warlords to have ever lived. This monstrous warrior has culled a great swath of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Have fun making bad ideas lol
View previous comments…
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Unless it's like, Lord Kroak, most are actually

For Fantasy anyway.

Most profiles are missing an Age of Sigmar key, but overall for profiles like say Archaon or Thorgrim they're up to date.
Phoenks
Phoenks
What the ****?????? How? Who is READING all of that? It's not you, is it?

I was actually discussing RPGs with a friend the other day, and he brought up Warhammer being one of the longest, most elaborate verses ever.

I asked him if he thought our VSBW profiles were up to date on it and he was like "there's no way." And after seeing the list of novels, I couldn't believe that either.

Well, anyway...

Any other cool characters from Warhammer that you would debate for?
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Not very much releases that has some named character or another in it, so it's actually pretty easy to keep up. And some things have been retconned so there's that
Characters I Can personally debate
Grimgor Ironhide
Thorgrim Grudgebearer
Ungrim Ironfist0
Chakax
Balkrag Grimgorson(no that name is not a joke I wish it was)
Settra the Imperishable, Great King, the Imperishable, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion of the Infinite Desert, Emperor of the Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer off Reddittras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds
Nagash
Wulfrik the Wanderer
Count Mordrek the Damned
Morghur

Characters I Can generally debate on the basic level but will ask questions to people more knowledgeable
...
Literally every other character.

Notable ones are Balthasar Gelt, Archaon, and Felix Jaeger
TiltedFN
Hello darkgrath, sorry for bothering you, but would you mind commenting on this thread? It's a fairly minor revision.
Hello. I was wondering if you'd be up for taking a look at this when you have the time, since I know you get bombarded with these kinds of requests constantly.
AnAverageUsername
Ei, are you doing matches with Gojo? If so can I recommend a character if it isn't a bother?
Phoenks
Phoenks
Sure. I've kinda just been making silly matches for no real reason. But If you've got something good then I'll go for it.

Gojo is a pretty cool character to put in matches. My only problem is that people have wildly different takes on his "Limitless" technique.
AnAverageUsername
AnAverageUsername
This doesn't count as me flattering myself does it-

Basically, I'm wondering how Wahlberg's spatial magic would work against limitless, it'd seem interesting. and sorry if the profile isn't the best, I worked on it myself besides some formatting help. There really aren't many Mashle fans that can help...
Catzlaflame
What’s your thesis on if you don’t mind me asking
Executor_N0
Executor_N0
I'm my course is production engineering, and the one I got to research is about university entrepreneurship in my country, how it's going, what are the market trends, why so many of them fail, etc.
Catzlaflame
Catzlaflame
Hm interesting, how’s it going ? Is it difficult? Enjoyable?
Executor_N0
Executor_N0
Right now it has been more about organizing the conceptual structure. But I'll need to help to make an event with entrepreneurs in order to continue the thesis. So I'm having more work with dealing with that and how to approach it in the questions and surveys.
BasedNecoScaler69
Can you check this thread out? its pretty simple.
vsbattles.com

Battler H1-B

simple really. Beatrice is given "Potentially H1-B with endless magic." Every user of endless magic should receive the same as a result. potentially High Hyperverse level with Endless Magic (Endless Magic is said to have control over an individual's journey through the infinite layers of the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
BasedNecoScaler69
Can you check this revision out? its pretty simple.

vsbattles.com

Battler H1-B

simple really. Beatrice is given "Potentially H1-B with endless magic." Every user of endless magic should receive the same as a result. potentially High Hyperverse level with Endless Magic (Endless Magic is said to have control over an individual's journey through the infinite layers of the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
BasedNecoScaler69
can you check this revision? its so simple, to the fact i only need one line to explain it

vsbattles.com

Battler H1-B

simple really. Beatrice is given "Potentially H1-B with endless magic." Battler is also an endless sorcerer, so he would logically receive the same.
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
EldemadeDityjon
Sorry for distributing. Can I get your input here. Really Appreciated 🙏
vsbattles.com

Nanami, Hanami and Utahime Profile Update

Nanami , Hanami and Utahime Profiles are outdated in wiki so updating them with more explanation and references with scans. Current Nanami Profile in wiki Updated Sandbox for Nanami Profile Current Hanami Profile in wiki Updated Sandbox for Hanami Profile Current Utahime Profile in wiki...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Mukaddes
Lephyr hello

To clarify the issue, I have written answers to all your confusing questions...

Please read and comment, I have been waiting for you for a long time.

vsbattles.com

Viego and Pantheon scale

Yes, please calm down. Things do tend to move very slowly around here, as we need to make all the necessary precise and well-considered preparations for each revision, so they are applied in coherent and well-structured manners and our wiki pages are not messed up. For example, I had to help...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
MorrisHatesYou
Hello Dark, can you please allow me post on the Tokyo Revengers deletion thread, or atleast let me type what I want to write there here? It's kinda important.
DarkGrath
DarkGrath
Could you elaborate on what you would like to write? You don't need to spell it out verbatim, but I want to at least know what point you'd like to make.
MorrisHatesYou
MorrisHatesYou
I think it's better to write to you here since my messages probably won't get ignored like every other time.

The problem isn't with the current supporters but rather user/users who repeadetly make alternative accounts.

I will address the common beliefs about the supporters which isn't just true.

Dalesean said that the supporters are making an upgrade thread within less than an hour after the relevant feats are already calculated and concluded and making a thread about other rejected feats after that.
Some staff members and wiki bluenames automatically see the TR fans as the "bad guys" due to this whilst not knowing anything.

Dalesean's point about making threads for rejected feats after that is not true at all, except for one feat, which is Chifuyu dodging a point blank baseball bat (the calc itself is good, but it is considered an outlier), but the supporters aren't really in the wrong there, which I will explain.

There were calculations that broke the rules and just doesn't make sense before, the calcs that uses 34.3m/s as speed of projectile in projectile dodging feats and Takemichi dodging Mikey's kick that got him bazillion times faster than Mikey. No one made threads about these feats after they were removed, no one.

The reason why I created an upgrade thread after the staff thread got concluded?

I intentionally created the upgrade thread after the staff thread got concluded, which I will explain my reasoning for doing so.

This thread is dedicated to remove some feats, Zefra joined in and suggested to remove the Izana's bullet feat. Here he knows nothing about the context of the feat, I provided the entire context which he didn't know about beforehand, the feat is about Izana body moving on its own to save his friend from bullets, I explained why the gunshot is the trigger for his movement, he said that it was Kisaki saying "Die", I explained to him why it blatantly just doesn't make any sense, he just said that the feat isn't for the CRT even though he brought it up, without being able to disprove my points.

He brought the context I came up with and twisting the trigger in his favour in the staff thread, he didn't even put out my arguments which he can't refute.

Only for my reasoning to be accepted one a more trusted supporter than me, @Arnoldstone18 brought up my exact points in the new thread I made.

If I made the Chifuyu calculation before, I'm afraid that things will go like the Izana feat again.

Why did I include the Chifuyu feat in the new thread I made?

The reason why I included the Chifuyu feat in the new thread because some of our arguments were never addressed in the previous thread and the thread got accepted by DDM (the value got accepted by him, not the multiplier), with no other admin or thread mod rejection.

The feat got rejected only because Chifuyu calls Kojiro "fast".
(Acording to the new calculation rule when when a character dodges an attack from another character who is comparable to himself/herself/themselves, and the calculation results in the character dodging the attack being several faster than the character who attacks, the feat should be deemed invalid.)

Kojiro is the attacker and Chifuyu is the dodger in this feat.

I explained why you can compliment someone's stats without necessarily them being comparable to you, via surpassing perceived expectations.
And Kojiro guy got one-shot by someone comparable to Chifuyu.

I brought up these points again since they really weren't addressed, and if you look at the previous thread, we were arguing for Kojiro not being comparable with Chifuyu.
But in the new thread Dalesean was claiming that we were arguing for Chifuyu and Kojiro being comparable, like wtf?
And they still weren't addressed.

Another point which got commonly brought up: Arguing excessively with CGMs.

As for excessively arguing with CGMs, that isn't true, atleast for me @CorbinMLG @DekuGlazer and @Arnoldstone18
You can look at all of my blog posts, the only time me and other supporters debated with CGMs for a long time is a blog named "Kakucho blitzes Angry", and that is due to us not knowing the rules about using 34.3m/s in calculations, the other blogs doesn't cause much debates.
You'll see me debating a with Dalesean on forums, but it's never about calculations but about TR.

So, in conclusion,

1) The common belief that the supporters excessively argue with CGMs is wrong, atleast for me and the people I just tagged.

2) The reason why I made an upgrade thread only after the staff thread got concluded is because I'm afraid things might get twisted up like the Izana feat.

3) The only time I brought up a rejected feat is Chifuyu's feat because our arguments weren't addressed and no thread mods or admins rejected the feat, the value from the feat was even accepted by DDM, we brought up the feat in the thread again but the arguments were still ignored.

Also, I don't know if this happens to other verses, but arguments from the regular supporters aren't listened for Tokyo Revengers and the more trusted users' arguments, even if they're not that good, are listened.

The examples will be the
1) Izana bullet dodging feat, if you look at the other justification, it just doesn't make sense in the slightest, it goes against how mangas are written, but was easily accepted.
I explained why it's projectile dodging for 5 TIMES (5 TIMES), and only was accepted when @Arnoldstone18 repeated the same thing I said.

2) In this thread, the OP attempted to use 2x multiplier on Dark Impulses Mikey, it was automatically agreed by 2 CGMs, even though there are no evidences of that stated multiplier, but luckily CloverDragon was reasonable so it didn't go like that.

3) Our reasonings about Kojiro not being comparable to Chifuyu/Baju/Ryusei is never addressed even when though I brought up that point in the thread itself. Kojiro dude is weaker than someone who is known for how weak he is. The guy can hardly defeat 10 gangsters, which results him to high exhaustion, heavy panting and bleeding. The other guy can defeat 40 gang members with low difficulty. But somehow they're comparable only because the other guy complimented him once.

I personally think freezing the verse isn't bad for this reason since the reputation will be set to default.
Nothing is gonna help when I made arguments just to be ignored and other users who are more trusted makes bad arguments which will be accepted.
DarkGrath
DarkGrath
I'm sorry to say this after such an extensive post, but I don't believe this will be helpful for the discussion. We're not concerned with these particular instances you are referring to. We're concerned with how we can broadly address the frequent reports made regarding the verse in the RVR while continuing to facilitate productive discussions and quality indexing for the verse. This doesn't help us with that goal.
Vietthai96
Hi Lonkitt, would you mind loking into my thread if you have time??
vsbattles.com

Dragon Ball Heroes Revision: Time

Anyway, the revision is pretty simple: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Vietthai96/sandbox11 Here is the soon to be blog (if it is accepted), all the arguments and what i want to propose are inside it, read care fully everyone ^^ Also small buff for Time Power's NEP Erasure, since it...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Thank you very much
Back
Top