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Yeah but it seems like MrKing is talking about sole marksmanship skills here in which Vash takes the cake in that regard.
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Who is the most skilled character in fiction?
- Thread starter JackJoyce
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@Fire Ikki is hundreds, not thousands like him.
For the rest Sasaki literally has all of them but better.
For the rest Sasaki literally has all of them but better.
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You used a paragraph to explain hax in verse but only mentioned a skill feat. Why?
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...That's intelligence, not skill.Firephoenixearl said:
It also doesn't support the point you're trying to make. Getting a 10 in the other subjects would be an intelligence feat of its own, and while it would in fact be a greater intelligence feat than simply getting a 10 in English, I wouldn't say it puts theoretical Person B above someone else (we'll call them Person C) who got a 10 in Science and then proceeded to make numerous successful and important scientific discoveries on their own.
Which in this case, Ikki appears to be the equivalent to Person B, while Vash appears to be the equivalent to Person C.
Also:
Vash managed to stick gum on the hammer of a gun without anyone noticing, and did so from some numerous feet away.Firephoenixearl said:
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It's actually "over a hundred", but it's still as i said, not just moves, emotions, chains of thoughts, feelings, and cannot be fooled because it steals the identity. And from what im reading it's thousands but it's a rather bad one, as he doesn't deduce "what will happen", he just knows what can happen so he's ready for everything, ikki knows with details everything that will happen from deducting out of countless possibilities.The Causality said:
That's not an argument doe, tell me why.
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Ofc it is, but it was "assume it's skill".
So to make it simpler. Are you saying that the best boxer is more skilled than the 2nd best boxer who happens to be the world's best at swordsmanship, spearmanship, every martial art known to man and every weapon there is out there?
Ikki's feats in comparison far dwarf Vash, even in areas that aren't swordmastery like prediction, understanding, senses etc. Vash just has more gun feats, that by itself is not better than Ikki.
So for your example it'd be. Character C has had multiple discoveries in that field while B has had thousands of discoveries in just about every other field there is.
So to make it simpler. Are you saying that the best boxer is more skilled than the 2nd best boxer who happens to be the world's best at swordsmanship, spearmanship, every martial art known to man and every weapon there is out there?
Ikki's feats in comparison far dwarf Vash, even in areas that aren't swordmastery like prediction, understanding, senses etc. Vash just has more gun feats, that by itself is not better than Ikki.
So for your example it'd be. Character C has had multiple discoveries in that field while B has had thousands of discoveries in just about every other field there is.
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Vash isn't losing to Ikki when it comes to gun-play, his feats with guns are a lot more impressive than IIkki's marksmanship feats. If your genuinely arguing that Ikki is the better sharpshooter despite lacking as many impressive feats in that regard than there's some issues here. Nobody is arguing that Vash is more skilled than Ikki in most categories but he definitely beats Ikki in gun-play. You seem to be misunderstanding the argument here, if you give Ikki and Vash a gun then Vash is definitely gonna be the better of the two. Anything else would go to Ikki however.
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....When did i say Ikki's a better marksman?
Im saying "Ikki's overall more skilled as he has great marksmanship feats along with stupid level feats in literally every other area that can be called skill". But he's obviously not as good as vash in marksmanship.
Im saying "Ikki's overall more skilled as he has great marksmanship feats along with stupid level feats in literally every other area that can be called skill". But he's obviously not as good as vash in marksmanship.
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I would say so if the former has performed feats of combat skill which dwarf anything the latter has done with any of the forms they've mastered. Which by the way:Firephoenixearl said:
I read through Ikki's feats blog, and I've yet to see anything Ikki has done that's as blatantly cartoonish as what I've laid out for Vash. This alone is something I see no evidence of Ikki having the ability to replicate with or without marksmanship, and until you prove he can do so, your consistent assertions that Ikki's feats "far dwarf" Vash's are empty.Firephoenixearl said:
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>People who dislike Ikki have never watched his series.
Yeah, but you all don't do a good job at selling his character outside of his stupid skill feats. What do you expect people to think when you go around literally every skill thread and say "muhIkkiIsTheMostSkilledCharacterInFiction" and then list all this shit that to be blunt, sounds like complete horseshit? You don't make the character sound appealing, you make the character sound like a Gary Stu who is just perfect at everything. Everything we see about Ikki is feats, more feats and even more feats. Don't come at me with that. If you want people to know how good a character Ikki is, be better at promoting him instead of being ******* obnoxious.
Yeah, but you all don't do a good job at selling his character outside of his stupid skill feats. What do you expect people to think when you go around literally every skill thread and say "muhIkkiIsTheMostSkilledCharacterInFiction" and then list all this shit that to be blunt, sounds like complete horseshit? You don't make the character sound appealing, you make the character sound like a Gary Stu who is just perfect at everything. Everything we see about Ikki is feats, more feats and even more feats. Don't come at me with that. If you want people to know how good a character Ikki is, be better at promoting him instead of being ******* obnoxious.
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So...shooting the fuses off of what...6 bombs mid air?
So that's more impressive than:
Having such good control of your body you can manipulate your heart and even fix your neurotransmitters after they've been fried. Or manipulating your body on a cellular level to drain energy?
Copying the entirety of a style (including all secret techniques, stances, history and ideas then perfecting the technique) just by glancing at it's stance?
Entering your opponent's unconsciousness by performing a specific type of breathing and footwork that has to enter your opponent's rythym?
Literally notice voids of sounds in space by hearing?
Knowing every martial art, sword style there is along with every other weapon there is and being capable of using the techniques of those weapons on his katana.
Literally being so masterful at slashing he can cut metal with paper and negate hitting the atmosphere and causing energy loss along with moving the body in complete unison to negate the concept of acceleration which means going from 0% to 100% speed instantly
and many others
It really isn't, it's as i said just good marksmanship. It has nothing on the barely even logically possible skills Ikki has.
So that's more impressive than:
Having such good control of your body you can manipulate your heart and even fix your neurotransmitters after they've been fried. Or manipulating your body on a cellular level to drain energy?
Copying the entirety of a style (including all secret techniques, stances, history and ideas then perfecting the technique) just by glancing at it's stance?
Entering your opponent's unconsciousness by performing a specific type of breathing and footwork that has to enter your opponent's rythym?
Literally notice voids of sounds in space by hearing?
Knowing every martial art, sword style there is along with every other weapon there is and being capable of using the techniques of those weapons on his katana.
Literally being so masterful at slashing he can cut metal with paper and negate hitting the atmosphere and causing energy loss along with moving the body in complete unison to negate the concept of acceleration which means going from 0% to 100% speed instantly
and many others
It really isn't, it's as i said just good marksmanship. It has nothing on the barely even logically possible skills Ikki has.
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@Dragon
That's the way of the wiki, look at all the fun characters does it feel like any of these guys is a good character? Just look at stuff like Reinhard or every 40k character ever.
That's the way of the wiki, look at all the fun characters does it feel like any of these guys is a good character? Just look at stuff like Reinhard or every 40k character ever.
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The character being fun or not is irrelevant. The problem is about who talks about the character, and the way he/she talks about it
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Lmao. Reinhard is a good character and 40k characters are great. So I think that's a bad example.
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Well instead of being frustrated about what he says why not attack what he says directly. Making arguments against it and debunk the notion that Ikki is the most skilled character.
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Never said he's not. But it really doesn't feel like he is with all the stuff he has. That's what i mean by "almost nobody argues how good his character is even if they are indeed very good".EmperorRorepme said:
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Difference is people like Warren and Wok go out of their way to show that they actually do have characterization behind being strong.
Also literally only two of those are skill feats.
Also literally only two of those are skill feats.
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I mean arguing how good a character is isn't really relevant but it persuades people to agree with your point. People in general don't just like statements thrown at them I guess. Especially ones where the skill feats are crazy like Ikki.
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Never said he's not. But it really doesn't feel like he is with all the stuff he has. That's what i mean by "almost nobody argues how good his character is even if they are indeed very good".
If you mean he's OP. An OP character can be a good character. But I agree it isn't wholly relevant it's just better for discussion.
If you mean he's OP. An OP character can be a good character. But I agree it isn't wholly relevant it's just better for discussion.
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Reinhard is a sue tho. Even beyond the power stuff, dude has statements of shit like being able to bed any woman he pleases (and it's not an exaggeration). If that isn't some My Immortal stuff I don't know what is.
Everyone else in DI is pretty cool tho.
Everyone else in DI is pretty cool tho.
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And unlike Ikki, those two have people who often discuss those characters as their character selves. Even in your discussion thread regarding the verse, there is barely talk about Ikki as a character and is more about feats. There has been no discussion so far on this site that delves past his ridiculous feats that as explained by Earl, sounds like complete bullshit and it overall makes the character unappealing. Especially when he gets flaunted everywhere for "how skilled he is".
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Ikki's character yada yada i swear this topic became its own cult here. Can you guys please rip each other new buttholes in the thread that was literally made for it?
The top 3 seems to consist of Ikki, Jin, Fugil and Vash. I personally don't see Pray below place 5, maybe even place 4. So guys, keep on track and decide who the top dogs are. Sheesh man.
The top 3 seems to consist of Ikki, Jin, Fugil and Vash. I personally don't see Pray below place 5, maybe even place 4. So guys, keep on track and decide who the top dogs are. Sheesh man.
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The real cal howard said:
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Its Batman.
Also remember this is a F&G board. It's not like this is a CRT where we need to get stuff done.
Also remember this is a F&G board. It's not like this is a CRT where we need to get stuff done.
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Actually fugil lost against Ikki in skill. And vash he's skilled for sure, but he's strictly limited to guns and nothing else. So he gets dropped too, he's too limited.First Witch said:
Ikki, Jin and Sasaki RoR seem to be the top 3 rn.
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Its Fun and Games because this has no lasting impact on the wiki at all. But its still rude towards the op and everyone else who participates here seriouslyThe real cal howard said:
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I'd say RoR Sasaki is definitely one of the top dogs here.
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Body Control.Firephoenixearl said:
Has more to do with Information Analysis and intelligence than raw combat skill.Firephoenixearl said:
More Information Analysis.Firephoenixearl said:
Enhanced Senses.Firephoenixearl said:
Doesn't mean he can pull off something equivalent to removing the fuses from airborne dynamite sticks before they can hit the ground. Even with sword skill, assuming he'd have the sword skill tantamount to doing something like this is nebulous at best if you're going by the feats in that blog.Firephoenixearl said:
"Cutting metal with paper via skill" and "negating the concept of acceleration" sound like the kind of conceptual nonsense that the OP is ignoring. If we're using things like this, then Vampire Hunter D has him beat by being able to "cut someone with such skill" that it negates their ability to heal the wound all the way down to their soul, and I'm sure there are plenty of other characters with "skill feats that aren't actually skill feats" which are similarly beyond this instance Ikki has shown.Firephoenixearl said:
Alternatively, we can take this as what it is; the writer not having any idea what they're talking about.
Also, to everyone: How about we not start with any of this off-topic bickering? Yell at each other on Discord if you have to, but don't turn this thread into a fistfight.
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Reinhard is a sue. I think he's a good character though because of his traits, philosophy, entertaining interactions etc. Although we have to wait ages to find characters that match him in anyway. At least with Ikki he has a limit in the verse someone to slap him down. I guess you could say Mercurius is Reinhard's limiter until the end but most of the time we see them as equals until we find out their true natures.
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Not like you would have accepted any other outcome. But this dosn't make much of a difference though? Just because you have established that Fugil is below Ikki dosnt mean he is below everyone else who is currently top contender?Firephoenixearl said:
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I'm sorry, Ion's comment legit pissed me off and so I went off without thinking. While I do not take back what I said, i do apologize.
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Thank you.MrKingOfNegativity said:
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I love how this thread turned into Ikki vs za warudo.
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The Causality said:
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First Witch said:
"You're Welcome" but i want to die
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@Mr King
You assigning a power to everything you like doesn't change that they are done with skill and far dwarf anything Vash can do.
And the conceptual thing, it's not really "conceptual skill" or stuff like that, it's just him not needing to accelerate.
And hiding into your opponents unconsciousness means he can't realize he can see you, creating a pseudo form of invisibility.
You assigning a power to everything you like doesn't change that they are done with skill and far dwarf anything Vash can do.
And the conceptual thing, it's not really "conceptual skill" or stuff like that, it's just him not needing to accelerate.
And hiding into your opponents unconsciousness means he can't realize he can see you, creating a pseudo form of invisibility.
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Body control has nothing to do with skill in combat, and his particular body control has no evidence of being different.
Information analysis isn't something you do with skill; it's something you do with (in this particular case) intelligence and knowledge. At best, assessing and learning the style is an intellect feat, and performing it afterwards is what shows he has skill. Which isn't nearly as impressive as you're trying to imply, since by that point he's using a style that a lesser character was able to learn, albeit better.
Hearing is hearing. Has nothing to do with combat skill.
And? Vampire Hunter D's regen negation is "just him making the opponent unable to heal the wounds he inflicts on them", but its description tries to imply there's something realistic at play even though logic would tell you that there really isn't. Same issue here with Ikki "negating the concept of acceleration" as you put it.
Information analysis isn't something you do with skill; it's something you do with (in this particular case) intelligence and knowledge. At best, assessing and learning the style is an intellect feat, and performing it afterwards is what shows he has skill. Which isn't nearly as impressive as you're trying to imply, since by that point he's using a style that a lesser character was able to learn, albeit better.
Hearing is hearing. Has nothing to do with combat skill.
And? Vampire Hunter D's regen negation is "just him making the opponent unable to heal the wounds he inflicts on them", but its description tries to imply there's something realistic at play even though logic would tell you that there really isn't. Same issue here with Ikki "negating the concept of acceleration" as you put it.
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Information Analysis to the point of knowing the martial art with a glance may be argued otherwise but improving the whole thing beyond is skill. Doesn't really matter if the skill is something not possible in real-life. That doesn't nullify it as a skill. It's done physically with hard-work within the verse. It's a skill. Hell, most of the skills fictional characters do aren't possible.
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How are determining the skill anyway. This dude who is impossibly skilled with guns and Ikki with a sword and combat. So are we just going what's more impressive in their selective fields? Because Ikki has more than marksmanship in regards to combat.
