Most Skilled: The Trilogy

[WHYNAUT]

Goku not having the skill and knowledge of quadrillions of people, not being able to outwit supergeniuses that can simulate universes through pure intelligence and Goku not being able to adapt to conceptual attacks through skill.

 

[Ionliosite]

The last two aren't skill feats (at least for me), the first one depends on the other people skill feats, but it sounds pretty high.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Goku not having the skill and knowledge of quadrillions of people, not being able to outwit supergeniuses that can simulate universes through pure intelligence and Goku not being able to adapt to conceptual attacks through skill.

1) Are there any feats to show this level of skill?

2) Seems more like an intelligence feat, but it's debatable

3) How is that skill? Sounds like a hax resistance

 

[WHYNAUT]

1) That's what his power mimicry does, if he kills someone he steals their everything, including their skill and knowledge.

2) well this allows those supergeniuses to predict everything (analytical prediction), but Oryx can still outwit them, so it's relevant with all the analytical prediction going on in this thread.

3) The feat was performed by two Knight, who Oryx scales above massively. One Knight was able to perform conceptual manipulation through skill (but that doesn't get accepted in this thread), but the other was specifically able to find ways around the conceptual manipulation by following Oryx' way of fighting and simply discovered a way to counter the ability. Basically it's like Rimuru adapting to gain good analytical prediction, but better.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1) That's what his power mimicry does, if he kills someone he stea!s their everything, including their skill and knowledge.
2) well this allows those supergeniuses to predict everything (analytical prediction), but Oryx can still outwit them, so it's relevant with all the analytical prediction going on in this thread.

3) The feat was performed by two Knight, who Oryx scales above massively. One Knight was able to perform conceptual manipulation through skill (but that doesn't get accepted in this thread), but the other was specifically able to find ways around the conceptual manipulation by following Oryx' way of fighting and simply discovered a way to counter the ability. Basically it's like Rimuru adapting to gain good analytical prediction, but better.

That may be the case, but does he ever actually display an impressive skill feat?

If it's a matter of outwitting, it would be intellect, not skill

I won't say for sure that that's not skill, but given the information provided, that sounds more like a power or ability

 

[Ionliosite]

Can I ask who are these geniuses?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

From the looks of it, it looks like Oryx outskills Yujiro, Fugil, and Rimuru. Not gonna contest that.

 

[Ionliosite]

Why? It doesn't seem like it, at all.

 

[BakiHanma18]

From the looks of it, it looks like Oryx outskills Yujiro, Fugil, and Rimuru. Not gonna contest that.

I'm not entirely sold. We still don't know if he actually displays these skills. This seems to be quite similar with the problem of experience: implied skill doesn't really mean anything unless there is evidence that he actually displays these skills. After further thought, I'm starting to doubt if even Soul of Cinder belongs on this list as I previously thought

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Being able to fight people that simulate entire universes via Analytical Prediction, and kill them.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Being able to fight people that simulate entire universes via Analytical Prediction, and kill them.

Again, as stated earlier, that's more of an intelligence feat. Outsmarting=/= better skills

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Eh, my knowledge on Destiny is rusty.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Eh, my knowledge on Destiny is rusty.

I have very minimal knowledge of the verse myself, I'm only going based on what @WHYNAUT has described. I could be wrong

 

[WHYNAUT]

1) Oryx doesn't display much himself, since conceptual stuff isn't allowed and he prefers just Taking his enemies. I can give some feats of other characters that he would scale massively above by virtue of having the knowledge and skill of trillions like them though.

2) The point is that the analytical prediction that so many contenders here have, is useless against Oryx because he can just act outside of their predictions.

3) It's as much an ability as Rimuru's adaptation is. The Knight didn't gain resistance or some other hax to fight back, he just changed his ways of combat on the spot to counter the conceptual manipulation.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1) Oryx doesn't display much himself, since conceptual stuff isn't allowed and he prefers just Taking his enemies. I can give some feats of other characters that he would scale massively above by virtue of having the knowledge and skill of trillions like them though.
2) The point is that the analytical prediction that so many contenders here have, is useless against Oryx because he can just act outside of their predictions.

3) It's as much an ability as Rimuru's adaptation is. The Knight didn't gain resistance or some other hax to fight back, he just changed his ways of combat on the spot to counter the conceptual manipulation.

That would be helpful. Remember, you're trying to convince at least 2 other people with no argument against Oryx's placement

I understand, but if we take into account any powers other than skill (strength, speed, hax, etc), this becomes more of a free-for-all fight instead of a skill comparison

If this is true, Rimuru's adaptation skill feats might be in question, as something like outskilling certain hax is what got Abel bumped down the list. If you have the info, how did he change his style and how did it counter the manip?

 

[WHYNAUT]

1. I'll get on that then. It will take a bit longer though.

2. But no special power is used here? Oryx can just outmaneuver the predictions of the other contenders and that's it.

3. Sadly it doesn't go into much detail. The relevant information just is: Knight A strikes at Knight B's "fundamental modes of being and knowing" through skill. Knight B then took inspiration from Oryx, because Oryx represents the concept of curiosity and exploring, and found a way to fight back against the conceptual manipulation.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1. I'll get on that then. It will take a bit longer though.
2. But no special power is used here? Oryx can just outmaneuver the predictions of the other contenders and that's it.

3. Sadly it doesn't go into much detail. The relevant information just is: Knight A strikes at Knight B's "fundamental modes of being and knowing" through skill. Knight B then took inspiration from Oryx, because Oryx represents the concept of curiosity and exploring, and found a way to fight back against the conceptual manipulation.

Thank you, it'll make putting Oryx high on the list much easier

Oh no sorry, I wasn't implying that it's a special power, what I meant is that it isn't skill, it's intellect, like a scientist vs an assassin. The assassin is skilled enough to know the what move in any given situation would be best (or at least have a general idea). A scientist can do the same, but not through skill. Instead, they rely solely on logic and deductive reasoning

Thats alright, the info is in the thread, so everyone can argue in favor for or against.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well skill and intelligence blend together a lot, but if other people agree with that then okay.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Well skill and intelligence blend together a lot, but if other people agree with that then okay.

One thing that might help: how does he acquire this knowledge?

 

[WHYNAUT]

Through his constant exploration of reality and sharpening his mind. Over the billions of years he simply has acquired a ton of knowledge and wisdom.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Through his constant exploration of reality and sharpening his mind. Over the billions of years he simply has acquired a ton of knowledge and wisdom.

So not through knowledge of combat or experience in fighting or killing?

 

[WHYNAUT]

That played a big roll in it considering he sharpened his body and mind by getting into fights that lasted at least thousands of years each with his sisters.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Combat applicable intelligence does actually apply. It's no different from skill if he uses IQ in battle.

One thing to note though, outwitting a strategizer and outwitting a martial artist are not the same thing. You can outwit some really good general because you expect him to think that you'll think of attacking behind so you just attack from the front. You can't do the same to a martial artists who predicts based on your stance that your next hit will be a punch or a kick.

It's a similar case to "knowing how to win a fight doesn't mean you know how to fight" or "A great war general can be the weakest soldier".

So the idea here is, in a general battle of wits Light Yagami would stomp say, idk baki. But if they fight, Light Yagami can't use wits to fool prediction. It's not the same thing.

 

[WHYNAUT]

While that is true, said supergenius can literally simulate a universe and everything that has/will happen in it through pure intelligence, which would include anything one might do in a fight.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes and no.

1. Do they state to perfectly simulate these fights and everything in it? Because just because Ikki could simulate Stella's father so perfectly the vizualization even had a bloodflow and heart beat (to that much detail), it doesn't mean he simulated/expected that Stella's father would be so clingy to stella and that weak to stella's mother.

2. How did Oryx outwit them? Ikki outwitted Byakuya Jougasaki, who is a supergenius on just about every level, but Ikki outwitted him in a fight, doesn't mean he would outwit him in say...a game of chess for example. Similarly, outwitting these geniuses in one field doesn't mean he outwitted them in a head on fight when they specifically stated they had predicted how the fight would go exactly. And are these geniuses fighters?

 

[WHYNAUT]

1) Perfectly, yes. A group of genius scientists was trying to study them and when they found out about the simulation they went crazy, because they were no longer sure whether they were real themselves. The simulation predicted everything they tried to do and even went as far as the create a simulation in a simulation in a simulation etc. The only way for them to resolve the issue of whether their entire reality was a simulation was by bringing in something smarter than the character creating the simulation.

2) On multiple levels. He beat them in strategy, tactics and knowledge.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. What's this simulation exactly and how do they do this?

2. I see, none of those is combat applicable. Or "skill" applicable at least. Strategy and tactics are the same thing, it's almost never combat applicable whereas knowledge is just knowledge.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1) Perfectly, yes. A group of genius scientists was trying to study them and when they found out about the simulation they went crazy, because they were no longer sure whether they were real themselves. The simulation predicted everything they tried to do and even went as far as the create a simulation in a simulation in a simulation etc. The only way for them to resolve the issue of whether their entire reality was a simulation was by bringing in something smarter than the character creating the simulation.
2) On multiple levels. He beat them in strategy, tactics and knowledge.

On the second note, that sounds like the Light vs Baki point applies, but I could just be misunderstanding

 

[WHYNAUT]

1. It's a robot that can create simulations inside itself.

2. Tactics actually refers to actions in a fight too.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. It's a robot that can create simulations inside itself.
2. Tactics actually refers to actions in a fight too.

1. How does this robot work? Just probability?

2. How did Oryx outwit these exactly? I mean about the tactics in a fight.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1. It's a robot that can create simulations inside itself.
2. Tactics actually refers to actions in a fight too.

But for tactics, it's more like he's using deductions to predict the best/most accurate course of action as opposed to using his prowess in the fighting field

 

[WHYNAUT]

1. Calculates anything and everything. For reference that's just a basic unit, while Oryx goes up against powerful Axis Minds with far more processing power, adaptablity and intelligence.

2. Simply acted outside any of the possible outcomes they could think of.

 

[WHYNAUT]

But for tactics, it's more like he's using deductions to predict the best/most accurate course of action as opposed to using his prowess in the fighting field

But being able to predict the best course of action at that level would also apply to fihgts, would it not?

 

[BakiHanma18]

But for tactics, it's more like he's using deductions to predict the best/most accurate course of action as opposed to using his prowess in the fighting field

But being able to predict the best course of action at that level would also apply to fihgts, would it not?

It 100% applies to combat, but I'm less than convinced it applies specifically to skill

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I see, interesting.

That's just plot i'd say unless there is some form of good explanation OR the robots aren't all that good to begin with. Cus if the robots process "all" then oryx is acting outside of "what he can do". Which is plain contradictory.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I see, interesting.
That's just plot i'd say unless there is some form of good explanation OR the robots aren't all that good to begin with. Cus if the robots process "all" then oryx is acting outside of "what he can do". Which is plain contradictory.

Just a thought, what if they could predict all, but Oryx was able add a new element to "all", making all but that one thing, which is what Oryx did?

 

[WHYNAUT]

@Baki

I don't really see the difference between that and other characters simulating a fight in their head before it even begins a thousand times over.

@Earl

Well as proven by the thing with the scientists if something is simply smarter than them, they can't predict all of its actions.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Just a thought, what if they could predict all, but Oryx was able add a new element to "all", making all but that one thing, which is what Oryx did?

That is a good way of explaining it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then they never predicted all.

It's like saying.

I predict that you can move in 1 of 4 directions.

You jump up.

It's not really your ability to jump up that added an element to "all", it's just my inability to deduce that you could do that to begin with.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Earl

Well as proven by the thing with the scientists if something is simply smarter than them, they can't predict all of its actions.

Then they just aren't that smart. They just have a lot of processing ability, meaning they can process way more than a normal human. Doesn't mean they can outdo the predictions in a fight of an inate born fighter like Yujiro or other characters who can deduce all possible attacks and the best course of action in every scenario.