Tokyo Revengers Upgrade Hypersonic+ Speed

[Dalesean027]

So are we in agreement with Hypersonic+ Mikey? if so, can we add it to Mikey's Profile now?, because Mikey is the only one who gets Upscaling from Izana.

For Downscale South, and other Top Tier I think it can follow.

We should be getting staff input tomorrow so let's wait until then as we need permission to apply anything

It's a violation of site rules doing so without getting a CRT accepted

 

[Mr._Undetected]

Agree

 

[Whiz_Almighty]

Tomorrow is also the day of TR leaks. That is double celebration.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Hypersonic+ Mikey…

the sheer flabbergast I experienced when I saw this

following

 

[DenLitz]

Ah okay gotcha well still in that case they'd just upscale(Mikey and South) if you can present your reasoning on that well enough but yeah either way it goes whether it be

Peak South< Peak Izuna < Peak Mikey
Or
Peak Izuna< Peak South< Peak Mikey

Mikey would still scale to the hypersonic+ value even also if you consider him to be relative to thier peaks instead of outright superior how it's presented and what with the narrative

So on this can we agree?

Actually Peak Izana > Peak South. Because basically Peak Izana will only appear when there is something that can push him to exceed his normal limits, simply Peak South > Izana when in battle (nothing can push him to exceed his normal limit yet), Peak Izana (with something that can pushing himself beyond his normal limits, such as his last attempt to save Kakucho) >>> Peak South in terms of "Speed".

 

[Dalesean027]

Actually Peak Izana > Peak South

Yes I know I agree it's @CorbinMLG who believes it could be otherwise

 

[Whiz_Almighty]

Will these inputs work?
1. South - At least Hypersonic (Kept up with Senju and managed to hit Mikey during the exchange of blows)
2. Senju - At least Hypersonic (Has shown to be more agile than South)

 

[DenLitz]

Will these inputs work?
1. South - At least Hypersonic (Kept up with Senju and managed to hit Mikey during the exchange of blows)
2. Senju - At least Hypersonic (Has shown to be more agile than South)

With such a reason of course not, there must be a better reason than this.

 

[Whiz_Almighty]

With such a reason of course not, there must be a better reason than this.

But at least hypersonic is fine right?

 

[DenLitz]

But at least hypersonic is fine right?

Joshpiece proposed Possibly/Likely for South not for Senju, but that's if we compromise on him and we'll see if South deserves it or not

 

[Dalesean027]

Also there's especially no way they'll have at least hypersonic either and with the chain I proposed I doubt Senju scales to south's full speed even then as DenLitz said whther south even scales remotely is up in the air and personally I don't believe he does

 

[Mr._Undetected]

So the point is just Mikey and Izana speed upgrade right

Or are there other characters that will scale too

 

[Dalesean027]

So the point is just Mikey and Izana speed upgrade right

Or are there other characters that will scale too

Essentially yes it should just be Mikey and Izana though some have made arguements for others those haven't really gone anywhere but if necessary we still have a compromise option of downscaling some characters but that compromise aside if it's not necessary then which I don't think it is then only Mikey and Izana would scale as originally intended

 

[joshpiece]

I disagree with any “at least” put on the hypersonic. It should only be used for subsonic.

 

[DenLitz]

I disagree with any “at least” put on the hypersonic. It should only be used for subsonic.

Yes, I'm also a little skeptical about "Possibly/Likely", But maybe I'll change my mind if someone can give a reasonable reason.

 

[joshpiece]

I'm also a little skeptical about "Possibly”

I am too but it is a fair compromise in my eyes. As we know definitely South and others are faster than subsonic but slower than the rating Mikey and Izana have.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Mikey not being concerned with defence is a pretty good argument considering that there is a scan of him not bothering to avoid punches from Kakucho. The fight between Mikey and South starts with a kick and a punch respectively which land on their targets which could be considered evidence for them being comparable unless Mikey decided to kick much slower than he could have for some reason despite intending to kill South. After that we have them exchanging a barrage of blows with both of them having visibly taken damage after it is stopped and South being far worse off than Mikey.

The fact that the panels aren't exactly detailed and that the exchange is mostly portrayed from South's perspective who clearly doesn't have an actual proper overview of the situation he is in certainly doesn't help with evaluating this. South stated that his strength is on par with Mikey which if we consider that statement valid means that Mikey must have landed far more hits on South than the other way around but this statement does come from a crazed South who doesn't realize the damage he has taken, so I would only consider the statement if it makes sense with the rest of the context.

Izana preformed this feat in a last ditch effort type of scenario. This feat scales to mikey and Izana at their absolute peak. To get scaling you need to show a relativity to full power Mikey or Izana.

Since the Hypersonic+ feat is about Izana and Mikey at their absolute peak does that mean that we consider an Izana and a Mikey who aren't at their peak comparable to that or did they fight against each other at their peak? Hypersonic+ should be fine provided there are no contradictions.

The possibility of a considerable number of characters scaling would make things rather difficult due to the gap between Hypersonic+ and Subsonic but if only the strongest in the verse scale, then that makes things easier. There is still a considerable gap though with even the strongest characters besides Izana and Mikey being not even close, so it would be good to have more feats above Subsonic that can support the idea that Hypersonic+ wouldn't be out of place for them.

 

[DenLitz]

I am too but it is a fair compromise in my eyes. As we know definitely South and others are faster than subsonic but slower than the rating Mikey and Izana have.

What makes South worthy of Downscale to be Possibly/Likely Hypersonic+?

 

[DenLitz]

What makes South worthy of Downscale to be Possibly/Likely Hypersonic+?

and also Is it okay to scale South and leave Senju? considering that during Senju's fight with South they weren't that far off in terms of "Speed", and if South scaled to Hypersonic+ it would contradict the fact that he and Senju weren't that far off in terms of "Speed".

 

[Dalesean027]

Since the Hypersonic+ feat is about Izana and Mikey at their absolute peak does that mean that we consider an Izana and a Mikey who aren't at their peak comparable to that or did they fight against each other at their peak? Hypersonic+ should be fine provided there are no contradictions.

Considering Mikey was somewhat nerfed fighting Izana even while they were both serious it's safe to just have serious Mikey scale to the speed since he can pretty easily blitz characters who can still perform FTE feats


I'm thinking either giving him a varies rating or just "hypersonic+ when serious" or "at his peak" rating will be enough

 

[Dalesean027]

The possibility of a considerable number of characters scaling would make things rather difficult due to the gap between Hypersonic+ and Subsonic but if only the strongest in the verse scale, then that makes things easier. There is still a considerable gap though with even the strongest characters besides Izana and Mikey being not even close, so it would be good to have more feats above Subsonic that can support the idea that Hypersonic+ wouldn't be out of place for them.

I also believe draken's bullet feat is being explored to see if it's possible to calc and will yield decent resuts

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Considering Mikey was somewhat nerfed fighting Izana even while they were both serious it's safe to just have serious Mikey scale to the speed since he can pretty easily blitz characters who can still perform FTE feats


I'm thinking either giving him a varies rating or just "hypersonic+ when serious" or "at his peak" rating will be enough

Just being able to blitz those who are Subsonic doesn't exactly justify Hypersonic+ but it does show that he is above them which Hypersonic+ would be even if it isn't something you could directly derive from that as a logical conclusion. If Mikey has been shown or stated to be comparable to the Izana who performed the Hypersonic+ feat, then it should be fine.

I also believe draken's bullet feat is being explored to see if it's possible to calc and will yield decent resuts

It would certainly be good if a usable result can be derived from it.

 

[Dalesean027]

Mikey has been shown or stated to be comparable to the Izana who performed the Hypersonic+ feat, then it should be fine.

Yeah they've still got statements and have directly fought each other while both serious

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Yeah they've still got statements and have directly fought each other while both serious

Them being stated to be comparable is something that was already mentioned if I'm not wrong. Can the serious state they were in be considered comparable to the state of Izana performing that Hypersonic+ feat?

 

[Dalesean027]

Them being stated to be comparable is something that was already mentioned if I'm not wrong. Can the serious state they were in be considered comparable to the state of Izana performing that Hypersonic+ feat?

Considering that happens in the same instance I'd say so, Mikey was even nerfed against Izana and also wasn't trying to kill him but fought seriously to defeat him.

So considering a nerfed Mikey kept up with Izana prior to Izana being as injured as he was post thier fight when he performed the Hypersonic+ I'd say it works

Though someone could feel free to correct me on that or add more in case I'm missing something

 

[CorbinMLG]

Considering that happens in the same instance I'd say so, Mikey was even nerfed against Izana and also wasn't trying to kill him but fought seriously to defeat him.

So considering a nerfed Mikey kept up with Izana prior to Izana being as injured as he was post thier fight when he performed the Hypersonic+ I'd say it works

Though someone could feel free to correct me on that or add more in case I'm missing something

Isn't South supposed to be faster than damaged Izana? So if Izana was that fast the entire time while damaged South should get it then without problems?

 

[Dalesean027]

Isn't South supposed to be faster than damaged Izana? So if Izana was that fast while damaged South should get it then without problems?

That's via your own scaling and arguements you haven't presented that yet to shown why you believe south is superior so without your presenting of that the general consensus is that Izana is above south blatantly

 

[CorbinMLG]

That's via your own scaling and arguements you haven't presented that yet to shown why you believe south is superior so without your presenting of that the general consensus is that Izana is above south blatantly

South showed comparability with a much stronger Mikey meanwhile Izana at that point was just getting destroyed by a weaker Mikey.

 

[Dalesean027]

South showed comparability with a much stronger Mikey meanwhile Izana at that point was just getting destroyed by a weaker Mikey.

This isn't really a new arguement as I've already talked about this prior with no retort from you and seemingly agreement from the breakdown I provided.

Considering you're the only one in opposition I don't think we should even settle for a comprise since a majority of people see otherwise

 

[CorbinMLG]

This isn't really a new arguement as I've already talked about this prior with no retort from you and seemingly agreement from the breakdown I provided.

You never talked about anything like this yet.

 

[Dalesean027]

South showed comparability with a much stronger Mikey meanwhile Izana at that point was just getting destroyed by a weaker Mikey.

I'll explain this via scaling chains with scans

And while gathering scans I noticed do agree that strength where it relates to South does seemingly equate to both Strength in speed but as you'll see that'll change things up a bit


A casual South gets blitzed by Waka and Benkei both of whom Akashi considers to be relative to Senju herself as he believes she underestimates their strength (all of this is shown in the scans)



Anyways speedwise this casual South couldn't keep up with them but when he's fueled by dark impulses(similarly to Mikey) and gives into his violent urges it makes him stronger(again going by the notion strength is determined as a whole of stats including speed namely) which in turn allows him to fodderize Waka and Benkei without them even being able to react



After this we of course get South vs Senju with the first half of this fight putting this South against Senju who after getting tagged by South has to realize her potential to stand a chance



However once again South gets fired up "for the first time in a while" (this being verbatim from his own words even calling Senju by her title which shows she performs better than Waka and Benkei) unfortunately however Senju doesn't really stand a chance against this fired up South and only gets to dodge one blow, throwing a kick before being immediately tagged while in motion swatting her away which puts her out the fight





This fired up South is approached by Mikey who in that same chapter LETS HIMSELF GET HIT by Kakucho not even being concerned with the blow

https://imgur.com/a/QrcNd0Z

Mikey isn't fired up and feeling the rhythm of battle the same way South is and instead is fighting while giving in to his dark impulses which Senju even notes

https://imgur.com/a/ab9wMvp

Anyways this fired up South and Mikey trade one blow before they then exchange a barrage of blows with Mikey absolutely destroying South without him even being able to realize the amount of damage he's taken in the brief but quick exchange with Mikey fully dominating

https://imgur.com/a/a2CD4PU

https://imgur.com/a/964Tsqe

This scaling chain fits narratively from the battles of the 3 deities and speedwise from the way this went but here it is


Casual South<Waka and Benkei~Senju< South giving into his dark impulses(upon realizing he could be beaten in his battle) <Senju after realizing her potential<Fired up South<<<Dark Impulse Mikey<<Serious Mikey



With this I'd say it's pretty clear Mikey is above them in speed and just on this scale in general

Again though this same Mikey was willing to take hits from Kakucho without caring much and pretty blatantly didn't really care with South either as he dominated him completely and was slowly beating him to death as he lay on the ground post their fight

Mikey in his fight with Izana fought much more seriously and harder with Izana with everything he had basically while he's clearly dominating here without even a question to his victory, south's strength or the fact that he's going to kill South. Mikey's portrayed as being pretty disconnected and casual here post draken's death which some characters even question as they figure he'd be more fired up and pissed about it

Eh Mikey who fought izuna was serious though even while nerfed he was able to contend but yeah I'm just saying a serious Mikey in general is above his casual dark Impulse self since that's just him kinda ******* away with his mental state and morals allowing him to do stuff he'd never do normally like brutalize takemitchy and murder or just sit and take blows.

But yeah we can still scale his serious self above basically everyone since we know he's strongest it still is applicable via power scaling as we have a baseline of what we can use

Yeah I did what you're saying isn't new

And once again South got destroyed he wasn't at all comparable and if you take his statement as true then all that means is Mikey is insanely faster than South do it doesn't matter either way

 

[DenLitz]

Yeah I did what you're saying isn't new

And once again South got destroyed he wasn't at all comparable and if you take his statement as true then all that means is Mikey is insanely faster than South do it doesn't matter either way

Yes, because with their almost equal strength (South's statement), if you look at the impact of South's damage being so severe compared to Mikey's (a far comparison), and South being completely destroyed in a short time, it's clear that it's because of Mikey's superior speed.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Yeah I did what you're saying isn't new

And once again South got destroyed he wasn't at all comparable and if you take his statement as true then all that means is Mikey is insanely faster than South do it doesn't matter either way

Mikey against South wasn't holding back at all tho, he had the intent to destroy and kill South and he was literally bloodlusted. South still punched him at the same speed Mikey kicked him at. Easily puts him above Izana who couldn't do anything about a weaker Mikey's attacks.

 

[Dalesean027]

Mikey against South wasn't holding back at all tho, he had the intent to destroy and kill South and he was literally bloodlusted. South still punched him at the same speed Mikey kicked him at. Easily puts him above Izana who couldn't do anything about a weaker Mikey's attacks.

So is kakucho also Hypersonic+ by your logic

And having the intent to kill doesn't mean you're instantly bloodlusted going all out Mikey pretty casually overwhelmed South


Again it's all talked about in the post above and this is getting circular so I'm not feeling to inclined to continue this back and forth as it's been going no where

 

[DenLitz]

Mikey against South wasn't holding back at all tho, he had the intent to destroy and kill South and he was literally bloodlusted. South still punched him at the same speed Mikey kicked him at. Easily puts him above Izana who couldn't do anything about a weaker Mikey's attacks.

Izana was damaged by Mikey in fight because Mikey was still using his Martial Art to the fullest, he was different from Mikey Dark, Mikey Dark didn't care that he was beaten, which made South able to do some damage to him. If it's not Mikey Dark and using Martial Arts perfectly I'm sure Mikey will do a move to dodge/keep position=>attack=>dodge/keep position=>attack~
and so on again and again the same as against Izana, which would make it almost impossible for South to hurt Mikey, but of course South won't be destroyed as quickly as in the Manga because Mikey doesn't spend his time dodging South's punches, he wants to quickly kill South no matter South threw an attack at him.

 

[DenLitz]

I don't know until when you say South's attack speed is the same as Mikey's.

Give a reasonable reason, otherwise it means you have to accept the fact that South is on a different level to Mikey in terms of Speed.

 

[CorbinMLG]

So is kakucho also Hypersonic+ by your logic

No? Why would he be?

 

[Dalesean027]

No? Why would he be?

For slugging Mikey when he wasn't trying to dodge the same as South did

 

[CorbinMLG]

For slugging Mikey when he wasn't trying to dodge the same as South did

Yes, he wasn't trying to dodge Kakucho's punches and most likely same with South's punch. During their fight Mikey doesn't really care about defense and just focuses on attacking South as strong as he can basically. The reason why South scales to Mikey is because South landed his punch just as quickly as Mikey landed his kick. Mikey not caring about dodging doesn't matter here. Mikey kicked South with full strength and at the same time South punched him with full strength as well, both hitting each other at the same time, which then means that South's punch = Mikey's kick in speed, putting him at hypersonic+.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yes, he wasn't trying to dodge Kakucho's punches and most likely same with South's punch. During their fight Mikey doesn't really care about defense and just focuses on attacking South as strong as he can basically. The reason why South scales to Mikey is because South landed his punch just as quickly as Mikey landed his kick. Mikey not caring about dodging doesn't matter here. Mikey kicked South with full strength and at the same time South punched him with full strength as well, both hitting each other at the same time, which then means that South's punch = Mikey's kick in speed, putting him at hypersonic+.

You're reasoning doesn't make sense if Mikey is Hypersonic+ at his PEAK

Seeing as you're taking South's statement as fact then him and Mikey are equal in strength then In that short exchange he blitz ****** South showing that first punch and kick trade wasn't Mikey's peak thereby South doesn't scale