TOKYO REVENGERS CRT: THE IZANA KUROKAWA CONCLUSION.

[Arnoldstone18]

After much deliberation.... After much debate... on and off site... We finally decided to wait for the anime adaptation to clarify and see which sides of the argument is the right side.
Lo' and behold'... the long awaited adaptation has come so let's get on with it.

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IZANA SAVES KAKUCHO



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As we know, Izana saves Kakucho from getting shot by running against a bullet after it was fired. He gets to Kakucho in time and completes his goal after the gun was fired. Whether or not Izana began running before or after the gun was fired is unclear to me and can be discussed here if we so wish. However, one thing is certain. Izana moves in to save Kakucho after the first bullet left the gun, that is what we have been waiting for the anime for and it has been confirmed.

@Dinozxd has made the calc which I have gone through and asked for help evaluating. It was hard af

The calc's still in the works

Therefore I simply want to discuss this calc's math and its acceptance to the Tokyo Revenger's High/God Tier speed scaling.

Note: I will be taking a very neutral stance until part 2 of this crt

Spoiler: Agnaa's Thoughts

Typically, outspeeding a projectile yet struggling to dodge it is silly, because if they just moved a little further, they'd gain room on the projectile, giving them more time to take other actions. If you're 10x faster than a truck, you can just keep running away from it to gain more timeframe.

But in this case, since that character's coming from behind, they don't have that luxury. Doing a more complex maneuver by moving further would be impossible unless they were faster.

(Technically, this is a function based on the speeds being claimed, the distances being claimed, and the angle between the projectile's origin and the interceptor's starting point, but that reaches a maxima at 180 degrees, which seems to be the case here, where it's never an anti-feat).

And so, I don't think it's right to reject this calc for that reason.

If you want a better reason to reject the calc, I'd suggest looking into the sources of those distances, and the assumption that Izana was stationary until the gun was fired (rather than just moving off-screen).

SOURCES OF DISTANCES
TOPIC 1: Arm Movements
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Kakucho comes from behind Izana and moves his arm to push Kakucho away. What do you think the angle the arm was moved for a push to be possible

See here for the full discussion

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ANGLE	REASONING	AGREEMENTS
90 degrees	uses anime shots	@Dalesean027
>90 degrees and less than 180 degrees	Pushing someone directly in front of you requires greater arm movements than 90 degrees

TOPIC 2: ON PANEL DISTANCES

What distances are appropriate for calculating? it's currently being discussed

​

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Secondly, only after the first portion of the CRT is accepted by staff members and CGM, may we begin discussing what the scaling should look like. I have my thoughts but I will keep them to my self until its time for discussion

I will make a poll based on the scaling we have suggested and chosen. Any scaling application suggestion brought up before the completion of the first part of the thread will be completely ignored.

Scaling chains/ideas	Approval

 

[Dalesean027]

This most certainly is not how I accepted this nor is it doing what I've said

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This most certainly is not how I accepted this nor is it doing what I've said

My premise uses only distances shown. Which was what you suggested in the blog.

Lets discuss tho. What more do you suggest for the calc.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Like Mr. Agnaa said, the arm movement should be 180 degrees.

Izana was still in motion in the manga, so you can't really say that as his final movement. And it's unlikely that Kakucho would land in that position with just 120 deg arm movement, it has to be like 180 degs.

I think I've said this you on discord, the distance between the tip of the gun and Kakucho is not visually 36cm. It's like 40-45cm. But if others don't have any problem with it, I will be fine with it.

 

[Dalesean027]

My premise uses only distances shown. Which was what you suggested in the blog.

Lets discuss tho. What more do you suggest for the calc.

Literally suggested using only on screen movement

which means this shot at its closest

And the anime equivalent of this shot

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Literally suggested using only on screen movement

which means this shot at its closest

And the anime equivalent of this shot

Mhmm.. its similar to what I suggested, but not the same thing. For the latter I suggested using that manga shot but I don't mind changing to the anime shot equivalent.

@Dinozxd if youre seeing this go ahead and use em.

Like Mr. Agnaa said, the arm movement should be 180 degrees.

Izana was still in motion in the manga, so you can't really say that as his final movement. And it's unlikely that Kakucho would land in that position with just 120 deg arm movement, it has to be like 180 degs.

I think I've said this you on discord, the distance between the tip of the gun and Kakucho is not visually 36cm. It's like 40-45cm. But if others don't have any problem with it, I will be fine with it.

Anime does make the arm movement more 180. @Dalesean027 cool?

 

[Dalesean027]

Mhmm.. its similar to what I suggested, but not the same thing. I suggested using that manga shot but I don't mind changing to the anime shot equivalent.

@Dinozxd if youre seeing this go ahead and use em.




Anime does make the arm movement more 180. @Dalesean027 cool?

If I had a problem with the arm movement I'd have said so, the same arm movement distance is fine but its should literally only be that one shot of on screen movement and the arm movement, not sure where you're getting the 3d movement value from when it should just be those 2 things

 

[Dinozxd]

Anime distances for calculations has been deemed unusable as this is a manga based verse I think.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

not sure where you're getting the 3d movement value from when it should just be those 2 things

Youre asking me??

wdym by 3d movement value anyway.

 

[Dinozxd]

If I had a problem with the arm movement I'd have said so, the same arm movement distance is fine but its should literally only be that one shot of on screen movement and the arm movement, not sure where you're getting the 3d movement value from when it should just be those 2 things

Oh, that's kinda like my version of 180 degrees arm movement. It's Izana raising his arm and pushing Kakucho away.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

wdym by 3d movement value anyway.

I think he meant 3rd movement, anyways I agree with that, moving his arm up 70 degs shouldn't be added since he runs and did that at the same time.

It instead should just be the distance between Izana and the edge of the panel and 180 degs arm movement

 

[Arnoldstone18]

ohhh he meant that third movement,

sure...

 

[Dalesean027]

I think he meant 3rd movement, anyways I agree with that, moving his arm up 70 degs shouldn't be added since he runs and did that at the same time.

It instead should just be the distance between Izana and the edge of the panel and 180 degs arm movement

Yeah this

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Perfect,

@Dinozxd let us know when all corrections have been made.

 

[Dinozxd]

Well, I'm not rather avaliable atm (school stuff) but I'll try to fix that when I get on again.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Womp womp, take your time.

 

[Second22]

I don't really like the method of calculating the 'Distance between the tip of the gun and Kakucho.' How much does using Angular Size in this case potentially lead to overly high results? Actually, there's another way that doesn't involve Angsizing or making Pythagoras complicated, and it might provide a more accurate result. Just compare the distance of 'Px' directly with Kisaki's arm since Kisaki is already pointing the gun towards Kakucho. You'll get an approximation like this.

Use the arm for comparison:

• 144.8 px = 0.699 m
• 216.6 px (0.699/144.8) = 1.04560359116 m

Use the gun for comparison:

• 99.9 px = 217 mm or 0.217 m
• 216.6 px (0.217/99.9) = 0.47049249249 m

The point is, there's no way the distance of the gun to Kakucho is only 1 ruler. It's too short if you consider the overall context in the image. Despite the references I provided using both methods yielding different results, it's just a problem of the artist inaccurately drawing the gun to appear much larger. thought.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I don't really like the method of calculating the 'Distance between the tip of the gun and Kakucho.' How much does using Angular Size in this case potentially lead to overly high results? Actually, there's another way that doesn't involve Angsizing or making Pythagoras complicated, and it might provide a more accurate result. Just compare the distance of 'Px' directly with Kisaki's arm since Kisaki is already pointing the gun towards Kakucho. You'll get an approximation like this.

Use the arm for comparison:

• 144.8 px = 0.699 m
• 216.6 px (0.699/144.8) = 1.04560359116 m

Use the gun for comparison:

• 99.9 px = 217 mm or 0.217 m
• 216.6 px (0.217/99.9) = 0.47049249249 m

The point is, there's no way the distance of the gun to Kakucho is only 1 ruler. It's too short if you consider the overall context in the image. Despite the references I provided using both methods yielding different results, it's just a problem of the artist inaccurately drawing the gun to appear much larger. thought.

I agree that it's not 36cm, but 1m is no no.

The value similar to using the gun for comparison is here, I think it's better to adopt that, 45cm is probably the best

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't really like the method of calculating the 'Distance between the tip of the gun and Kakucho.' How much does using Angular Size in this case potentially lead to overly high results? Actually, there's another way that doesn't involve Angsizing or making Pythagoras complicated, and it might provide a more accurate result. Just compare the distance of 'Px' directly with Kisaki's arm since Kisaki is already pointing the gun towards Kakucho. You'll get an approximation like this.

Use the arm for comparison:

• 144.8 px = 0.699 m
• 216.6 px (0.699/144.8) = 1.04560359116 m

Use the gun for comparison:

• 99.9 px = 217 mm or 0.217 m
• 216.6 px (0.217/99.9) = 0.47049249249 m

The point is, there's no way the distance of the gun to Kakucho is only 1 ruler. It's too short if you consider the overall context in the image. Despite the references I provided using both methods yielding different results, it's just a problem of the artist inaccurately drawing the gun to appear much larger. thought.

Fair point,

I don't agree with your suggestion tho but thank you, Imma get back to you on that with a suggestion of mine. Might involve another rule of triangle

 

[Second22]

I agree that it's not 36cm, but 1m is no no.

The value similar to using the gun for comparison is here, I think it's better to adopt that, 45cm is probably the best

For me, just looking at 36 cm seems quite short. Even 45 cm is still short, but it's acceptable. Now It depends on CGM.

Fair point,

I don't agree with your suggestion tho but thank you, Imma get back to you on that with a suggestion of mine. Might involve another rule of triangle

I only see this method as easy and providing more accurate results than the Angsizing method. If you have a better method, you can try it, but please make sure it's at least 0.45 cm.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

45cm doesnt seem bad tho, but im still checking if i can use this method im thinking about

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So using the arm for comparison is a bad idea considering its an angled shot

So lets go with the tip of the gun

Size of Barette M9 = 0.137m
Px of M9
Px of height of BM9 = 356.6
Px of tip of gun = 101.2
Size of tip = (101.2*0.137)/356.6 = 0.039m

On panel px of tip of gun = 32px = 0.039m

Now, imagine a triangle composed of three points: the gun tip, Kakucho's face, and an imaginary 'us' observing Kakucho's face on the same plane as the gun's tip (from our perspective). Keep that in mind as you read the rest.

This triangle will be right-angled, it has three sides called Opposite, Adjasent and Hypotenus. Yall should know these terms.

so the line from the tip of the gun to Kakucho's face will represent the line we are not supposed to draw and use as the true distance which is the line from the tip to the face as shown in your blue line and my blue line (Opposite). The actual line which represents true distance from the gun tip to Kakucho's face, cannot be drawn due to the camera angle. That is what we are looking for (Hypotenuse). The line from 'us' observing Kakucho will be disregarded (Adjacent side). Now, we must assume that the angle from Kisaki to 'us' observing Kakucho's face seems less than 45 degrees (it's up to you guys; I'm using half of 45 degrees).

Opposite = 148px = 0.18
Angle = 22.5
Hypotenuse = 0.18/Sin (22.5 deg) = 0.47m

Btw if you use 45 deg its 25cm lol.

So to recap: your blue line; yknow that we are not supposed to take as the true distance since the shot is angled, will be what we call the "opposite" of this right angle triangle, while the angle of our perspective and Kakucho's perspective is less than 45 deg.

God help me pass my point across cuz its hard to explain what is in my head in a more readable manner.

---

So lets use 47cm

feel free to try this method guys...

otherwise 45cm is fine to use, idc.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Use 45cm from the calc I linked, it's easier to understand and it just looks better

 

[Dinozxd]

So using the arm for comparison is a bad idea considering its an angled shot

So lets go with the tip of the gun

Size of Barette M9 = 0.137m
Px of M9
Px of height of BM9 = 356.6
Px of tip of gun = 101.2
Size of tip = (101.2*0.137)/356.6 = 0.039m

On panel px of tip of gun = 32px = 0.039m

Now, imagine a triangle composed of three points: the gun tip, Kakucho's face, and an imaginary 'us' observing Kakucho's face on the same plane as the gun's tip (from our perspective). Keep that in mind as you read the rest.

This triangle will be right-angled, it has three sides called Opposite, Adjasent and Hypotenus. Yall should know these terms.

so the line from the tip of the gun to Kakucho's face will represent the line we are not supposed to draw and use as the true distance which is the line from the tip to the face as shown in your blue line and my blue line (Opposite). The actual line which represents true distance from the gun tip to Kakucho's face, cannot be drawn due to the camera angle. That is what we are looking for (Hypotenuse). The line from 'us' observing Kakucho will be disregarded (Adjacent side). Now, we must assume that the angle from Kisaki to 'us' observing Kakucho's face seems less than 45 degrees (it's up to you guys; I'm using half of 45 degrees).

Opposite = 148px = 0.18
Angle = 22.5
Hypotenuse = 0.18/Sin (22.5 deg) = 0.47m

Btw if you use 45 deg its 25cm lol.

So to recap: your blue line; yknow that we are not supposed to take as the true distance since the shot is angled, will be what we call the "opposite" of this right angle triangle, while the angle of our perspective and Kakucho's perspective is less than 45 deg.

God help me pass my point across cuz its hard to explain what is in my head in a more readable manner.

---

So lets use 47cm

feel free to try this method guys...

otherwise 45cm is fine to use, idc.

isn't this just a fancy version of Pythagoras which I already used on the calc?

 

[Dinozxd]

The value similar to using the gun for comparison is here, I think it's better to adopt that, 45cm is probably the best

I think we should get some CGM opinions on this as the method me and this blog uses is the same.

Edit: @Arnoldstone18 I edited the calc using the 180 degrees arm movement btw.

 

[Passersby]

i literally left this site for months and this is still ongoing lmao

seeing the scene, the guy who sacrificed himself was nowhere to be seen while the one rushing towards the gun was...well, rushing towards the gun

if taken literally, that means as soon as the bullets were shot, he moved at least several dozen meters before the supersonic bullets could even come close to moving single a meter

aka bro is at least 10 times faster than sound, which, if he was, as soon as he reached his henchmen, insteade of dying for no reason after pushing him away with orders of magnitude more force than what the bullets could output because he is ******* mach 10 he could just leap the f away from there, because his legs should be that strong that just casually leaping away can make him instantly reach terminal velocity/dodge the bullets/ at the very least avoid dying instead standing there like an idiot, i really can't think of how a guy that can run several dozen meters before a bullet can cross a single one can die by the bullets. leaving aside the fact that the sheer wind resistance would have already killed him if bullets could, also that these guys still use a motorcycle as a form of transportation

Spoiler: mach 2000 motorcycle i guess?

aside from that, do you guys have any idea how fast mach speed actually is?

if this feat applies to everyone then these guys could run across the city like ******* all might and run amoch while causing havoc and the police and government can do jackshit, literally
bullets?
nah fam, they will just outrun them

rockets?
same here, just ourun the thing while leaving a pile of corpses as the airflow produced by running at mach 10 kills everyone next to them

nukes?
just outrun the god damn radius!
you will find yourself 20 kms away and the poor thing wouldn't have even detonated yet


mach speed is unrealistic, these guys aren't going left and right porducing shockwaves even when that's applicabe for subsonic velocities, as te verse page seem to put them at since the air displacement would be supersonic, which can observed in planes and subsonic projectiles

basically you have nothing like this

well, granted, their critical mach number is largely unkown, i'm no aerodynamics specialist but humans aren't exactly very aerodynamic in general, so breaking the sound barrier is hard (feel free to try it at home) since we'll experience much more intense drag and friction compared to something like a bullet as we will be displacing much larger quantities of air due to higher surface area, that's probably why the majority of the bullets and fighter jets have a curved shape to them

so take it with a grain of salt, but the critical mach number should maybe be lower than planes or anything with less surface are? since we will be deflecting the airflow passing around us more than a the supposed material with less surfacearea does, and thus accelerates the airflow at a faster speed.

the logic is sound but i learned to never make intuitive arguments so take it with a grain of salt

anyways, all this bavardo to imply, no, blud is not outrunning those bullets from that distance, nothing in the series suggests they're moving even remotely close to these velocities

 

[Arnoldstone18]

My apologies,

Im well aware of this sentiment but unfortunately you know very well we can't use these kinds of logic for every verse calced beyond speeds beyond our tastes. So why this one? I could never really understand what Tokyo Revengers did to people, i understand the supporters but not the series itself, you have verses like Lookism that were ready to accept Supersonic speeds if not for a math issue or Ben Tennyison at Rel speed as a human being afraid of bullets just like any normal human being.

Appealing to reality on all fronts (to the point of discussing critical mach number? really man? aerodynamics?? and you are bringing up Zenitsu who is far from aerodynamic enough to not cause environmental destruction through the sheer heat of his MHS+ movements) will effectively nuke the speeds for a large, LARGE, number of fictional verses above Mach 1. Your argument also fails to differentiate between travel speed and reaction speed (really? Youre bringing uo the fact they use motorcycles against a dashing feat or sprint over short distances?). The fact Izana was tagged by the bullet isn't a good point, that just means that he would need to be speeds higher than what we calced for that logic to hold.

You know many verses with regular humans moving at Relativistic speeds still driving vehicles and not blowing up the area with their speeds, FTL characters being FTL (do i need to say more about FTL being a thing we calc?)

Im sorry, I understand that this verse may not be written to your taste when it comes to powerscaling but the fact is that Izana does beat the bullet to save Kakucho. This had been argued to ad nauseum before and we agreed to wait for the anime and yet points like these are still being brought up. At the end of the day these are fictional middle schoolers with superhuman characteristics talking about curses and time travel. They are weak enough in terms of durability that bullets are still a threat to them but fast enough that they can grow up play around in an open gangster lifestyle with lots and lots of gun violence. Bullets are still too small to be seen and they probably don't have the skill to spot them. At the end of the day these are all semantics and the fact still remains that these characters are superhuman so superhuman feats shouldn't be an issue.

So I would appreciate it if we just move on and understand that it is what what it is.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Edit: @Arnoldstone18 I edited the calc using the 180 degrees arm movement btw.

Alright, is there anything else to discuss about the math of the calc?

 

[Passersby]

edit: hold on

 

[Passersby]

Im well aware of this sentiment but unfortunately you know very well we can't use these kinds of logic for every verse calced beyond speeds beyond our tastes. So why this one? I could never really understand what Tokyo Revengers did to people, i understand the supporters but not the series itself, you have verses like Lookism that were ready to accept Supersonic speeds if not for a math issue or Ben Tennyison at Rel speed as a human being afraid of bullets just like any normal human being.

i'm well aware, using shockwaves as a way to determine speed in fictional settings is somewhat faulty as authors are never consistent with those and sometimes they don't draw them all togheter, but feats need to be taken and analyzed on a step by step basis while also using context from the series and prior feats to determine how valid a speed rating is or should be for the verse in question

the reason tokyo revengers is getting this much push back for supersonic velocities is because the verse doesn't offer anything of that level unless you overanalyze feats while ignoring the actual implications for these characters to be having such a massive speed,mach speed is no joke, and these characters were never portrayed to be making use of /taking advantage of their supersonic movements as far as i'm aware of to do anything worth while, there are no statements of anyone going at those levels of speed and as mentioned above, they still use motorcycles....like really, it's hard for me to accept that, but i kinda feel bad for typing this so apologies already


also you're under the impression that i agree to lookism being supersonic, which i'm not, that's dumb, and anyone thinking a character who is afraid of bullets is REL is plain wrong

there are a lot of rating i straight up disagree with, but i'm too lazy to deal with, like MHS+ part 1 naruto...that's not a thing, and it should never be

anways, that's out of topic

Appealing to reality on all fronts (to the point of discussing critical mach number? really man? aerodynamics?? and you are bringing up Zenitsu who is far from aerodynamic enough to not cause environmental destruction through the sheer heat of his MHS+ movements)

my bad on the air compresses heats up and turns to plasma at mach 10 part, , that was..ehh, a bit exessive and a cheap shot ngl,since not a single verse follows that rule

the differnce btw demon slayer and tokyo revengers however, is that demon slayer has a lot of showing for supersonic velocities as well as some established bs anime physics where leaping away from a transonic attack doesn't send you to the stratosphere, and moving faster that someone who preceives sonic attakcs with contemptuous ease can't even see without casing any sort of shockwave, or just straight up moving without even moving the air at all

tokyo revengers has nothing of the sort, and while i agree a lack of shockwaves is not an indication of a character's speed being slower than sound as scaling exists, the implication that this guy is moving at mach 10 just breaks the verse's setting, the lack of shockwaves in the verse is just the icing on the top since supersonic or above verses usually have those

will effectively nuke the speeds for a large, LARGE, number of fictional verses above Mach 1

as it should be, the site's speed ratings are downright ******* horrendus

...which makes me feel like a hypocrite for bullying this verse, either way, it shouldn't be supersonic

Your argument also fails to differentiate between travel speed and reaction speed (really? Youre bringing uo the fact they use motorcycles against a dashing feat or sprint over short distances?)

...arnold, i think powerscaling ruined your mind a bit, moving and maintaining supersonic velocities for extended periods of time is just as easy as maintaining it for short term bursts, the only reason it'd be harder to run at these speeds for longer periods of time is either because of stamina, or air resistance and drag, neither of which would really play a problem here if these characters could already reach Mach speeds in short bursts by sprinting, "reaction speed is different from movement speed" and such are powerscaler made terms from people in denial that never made any sens to begin with, if a guy can react to light speed attacks by moving in short bursts of speed in that moment, that's it, he is light speed

if it was ever shown that he is slower, the former attack wasn't light speed then, reaction speed should only be used in very, very, very specific circumstances where the author is an idiot who makes his characters constantly dodge explicitly confirmed to be light speed attacks but aren't even supersonic in movement, because he has no idea how fast light speed ******* is and other such examples

The fact Izana was tagged by the bullet isn't a good point, that just means that he would need to be speeds higher than what we calced for that logic to hold.

nah fam, what he did was legit statue those bullets, but for whatever reason,he just stood there instead of dodging them or running away or using the KE that the henchmen can appearently tank to run away with him since he can just drag him away, or idk, push him in a different direction then contiue to run away?

then speed blitz the poor gun holding extra

You know many verses with regular humans moving at Relativistic speeds still driving vehicles and not blowing up the area with their speeds, FTL characters being FTL (do i need to say more about FTL being a thing we calc?)

no, but once again, this needs to ba taken by a step by step basis, i can accept relativistic characters not destroying entire planets by running (anime physics and all), what i don't accept, is them riding slower vehicles as a mean of transportation,unless proper context is provided as to why they did such a thing i don't know if that's just a me thing, but that just means they're actually not that fast, plain and simple

i'm sorry, I understand that this verse may not be written to your taste when it comes to powerscaling but the fact is that Izana does beat the bullet to save Kakucho.

...i never even read it, i can't dislike something i don't even know about

this is just generally how i approach powerscaling

. This had been argued to ad nauseum before and we agreed to wait for the anime and yet points like these are still being brought up.

...i guess that's my bad, i already saw the arguments before, altough it's been a while

Bullets are still too small to be seen and they probably don't have the skill to spot them. At the end of the day these are all semantics and the fact still remains that these characters are superhuman so superhuman feats shouldn't be an issue.

if he can save his friend when moving at mach 10 i see no reason why his preception doesn't scale to that, but it is what it is

So I would appreciate it if we just move on and understand that it is what what it is.

understandable, i'd delete this, but i've wrote too much to imma keep it

i will quietly leave now, apologies for the inconvenience

see ya

 

[Dalesean027]

Alright, is there anything else to discuss about the math of the calc?

Plenty I've been talking in the comments of the calc and 180 degrees does have to go actually

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Alright, is there anything else to discuss about the math of the calc?

Dale is suggesting to use the anime version, however, that buffs the result. He's also suggesting to use 90degs for arm movement.

 

[Dalesean027]

Dale is suggesting to use the anime version, however, that buffs the result. He's also suggesting to use 90degs for arm movement.

Actually suggesting either that or the manga wide shot, since its pretty evident kisaki is more than half a meter away hell even 1m away should at least be his distance away

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Actually suggesting either that or the manga wide shot, since its pretty evident kisaki is more than half a meter away hell even 1m away should at least be his distance away

I get where you are coming from, but the manga's wide shot is just straight up inaccurate.

In the panel where Kakucho runs up at Kisaki, kisaki's arm is angled towards the right side.
In the bird's pov, Kisaki is at the right side and not even at the same line where Kakucho runs even though Kakucho runs in a straight line up towards kisaki, so it doesn't really make sense. That panel just doesn't really make any sense.

It's better to calc the direct distance between Kakucho and the gun. Also 40-45cm isn't much if you consider that's the distance between the gun and Kakucho. After the shot, Kakucho had his arm down along with the additional 21.3cm length of Beretta. That's gonna give us more than 1m distance.

But I think the anime can be used too.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

@Passersby well I understand where you're coming from. Ken Wakui (author) is really conservative and inconsistent when it comes to displaying effects, he loves making his characters perecption blitz other characters and loves to jerk off Mikey's nuclear kicks speed wise but thats about it. I don't think he is experienced enough in battle shounen to add more realistic elements to his story combat wise. He's also inconsistent in his destructive showings, he makes middle schoolers break walls with the heads of other middle schoolers but God Tiers can't even crack the ground when kicking someone at perception blitzing speeds. Its all these nuances that make me understand your point well. We just have to look past them y'know... I respect the fact that you apply your logic to other verses tho.

As for travel speed, I don't mind making a calc specifically for travel speed with motorcycles as the cap (Although you have High Tiers perception blitzing Mid to Low Tier characters just by running speeds so their speed is probably gonna get a bump above Motorcycles) but you have to understand that characters may be using motorcycles for a ton of reasons. If you were fast would you waste your stamina running towards the battlefield or use a vehicle? If you had just finished fighting would you run back home? Wouldn't it take a ton of energy to turn sharp corners on the street? Wouldn't it take a lot of energy to stop sprinting? Would you sprint at full speed home in the first place? etc... See? so many things to think about because its fiction. This calc is aimed towards reaction speed anyway since Izana dashed a short distance to save Kakucho so we will worry about travel speed in my next crt.

---

Plenty I've been talking in the comments of the calc and 180 degrees does have to go actually

KK will look at em

Dale is suggesting to use the anime version, however, that buffs the result. He's also suggesting to use 90degs for arm movement.

Odd but the arm movement is debatable,

Ill check out the calc blog before i make further comments.

 

[Dalesean027]

I get where you are coming from, but the manga's wide shot is just straight up inaccurate.

In the panel where Kakucho runs up at Kisaki, kisaki's arm is angled towards the right side.
In the bird's pov, Kisaki is at the right side and not even at the same line where Kakucho runs even though Kakucho runs in a straight line up towards kisaki, so it doesn't really make sense. That panel just doesn't really make any sense.

It's better to calc the direct distance between Kakucho and the gun. Also 40-45cm isn't much if you consider that's the distance between the gun and Kakucho. After the shot, Kakucho had his arm down along with the additional 21.3cm length of Beretta. That's gonna give us more than 1m distance.

not at all, all of these shots make it pretty obvious kisaki ain't less than half a meter away from these guys, its only inconsistent to the running shot in the manga, in the anime even it'd be at least 0.5m to 1m distance between the two and the kisaki shot of him on the ground proves that also as Mikey is standing literally right in front of the bodies and kisaki hasn't moved back.

There's even more shots btw that show them on the ground and you can calculated that kisaki ain't even remotely within 1m distance

 

[Arnoldstone18]

hmm..

But wouldn't kisaki have moved away in horror over what just happened, he doesn't seem to be in the same path Kakucho was running anymore.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

not at all, all of these shots make it pretty obvious kisaki ain't less than half a meter away from these guys, its only inconsistent to the running shot in the manga, in the anime even it'd be at least 0.5m to 1m distance between the two and the kisaki shot of him on the ground proves that also as Mikey is standing literally right in front of the bodies and kisaki hasn't moved back.

There's even more shots btw that show them on the ground and you can calculated that kisaki ain't even remotely within 1m distance

Then you have panels like this where the NPCs are much closer to the characters than the panels later on, like the bird's view one.

Anyways the manga is not consistent and if we are gonna pick one, the one where the events are happening is better to use than where everything already happened.

And the bird's eye view is just inaccurate since Kisaki and Kakucho are already not on the same line.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let me ask this:

Let's assume for a second that the calc in its current state is completely correct. In a verse where the current best calc is Supersonic, why would a Hypersonic+ calc not simply be an outlier?

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Let me ask this:

Let's assume for a second that the calc in its current state is completely correct. In a verse where the current best calc is Supersonic, why would a Hypersonic+ calc not simply be an outlier?

Is that even for it a reason to be an outlier?
I've seen other verses with the highest value being tiers ahead of the 2nd highest value, yet they're ok.

This feat actually used to be Hypersonic+ back then with no other calcs for the verse, and it wasn't considered an outlier.