Skill Wars: A New Skill

[Ionliosite]

So now I'm throwing Fugil versus Sasaki (yes, I'm a mad man)

Sasaki's feats: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3660367#242

Mishis has spent hundreds of years trining to defeat every type of Divine Drag-Ride and counter every ability they have

"My goodness……. So the nickname of Anti Drag-Knight isn't just an exaggeration." Krulcifer let out a horrified astonished sigh along with cold sweat. Exactly because she had the experience of facing Balzeride who wore the same Drag-Ride in the past, that she understood really well Mishis's strength as a Drag-Knight. Celis and Philuffy had grasped the attack range of the Halberd she was wielding from the battle the other day. They were maintaining a distance where they wouldn't receive attack, but regardless of that, she saw through their countermeasures and switched to Wire Tail that possessed long range. There wasn't a single special thing that was out of the human realm that made up her strength. She simply knew the abilities and memorized the traits of all Drag-Rides, and thoroughly performed enormous amount of training to face all those.

One of those abilities is called Wise Blood - Accel, this is an ability that makes several hundreds calculations to reach victory.

"Wise Blood ― AccelWisdom of Fortune and Calamity ― Insightful Gaze" The future foresight of the Divine Raiment was assembled at the same time with her mutter, and then it was sent into Krulcifer's head. Several hundred prediction calculation was carried out, producing the formula to reach victory. Right after that, dozens of reflective shots that were fired following that formula attacked Mel like a storm. "ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇ" The back wings, every kind of join parts, and at the end, concentrated shooting in one spot that pierced the barrier. All of Mel's option in escape and dodging were predicted, and the vital spots on her whole body were sniped. And then the finishing blow finally pierced the Force Core on her shoulder without even an inch of deviation.

Mishis prepared to counter this ability and she got casually outskilled by Fugil.

After Fugil spoke so indifferently, Mishis appeared in a tattered A┼¥i Dah─üka. The iron maid who was always calm and collected showed eyes that were dyed with rage and hatred. "ÔöÇÔöÇWhy? Why did you kill Listelka-sama-!? My lord who was dearly yearning for you so much like that!" Mishis yelled while stabbing a short blade of seven colors into her own arm. She was trying to cover for her lost stamina using Elixir injection. But, Fugil was still curt even after hearing the angry yell of the strongest Key's Supervisor. He simply summoned Ouroboros's Special Armament Infinity and deployed it into Bahamut that he then wore casually. With a bland face, he responded to Mishis who was directing killing intent that was like a raging fire toward him. "You are asking me why? You should have known why though. I am the hero, it is none other than I who was recognized by her as this world's messiah." "So you have planned this from the start? You saved Listelka-sama to make use of her bloodline, in order to obtain this AvalonÔöÇÔöÇ" Mishis whose body surface was dyed jet black moved at the same time with her yell. She skated in high speed with the wheels of A┼¥i Dah─üka and swung down her Halberd with a speed like bullet. (It's already too late to intercept with Reload on Fire! This attack cannot be dodged!) Inside the control room that was a bit cramped for fighting, the true worth of Avesta that could steal energy and Divine Raiment could be displayed freely. The Halberd that lunged with the conviction of victory caught Fugil's Drag-Ride, at the same time she yelled. "ÔöÇÔöÇAvesta……tsu!?" The moment she activated A┼¥i Dah─üka's Divine Raiment using mind control operation, Mishis was captured by a strange sensation. "……-!?" There was no feedback of her Halberd landing. No, it vanished. Fugils' figure suddenly disappeared. "Farewell, Key's Supervisor." Fugil lightly swung his great sword behind her. Just with that, the armor of A┼¥i Dah─üka that Mishis wore was smashed into pieces. "ÔöÇÔöÇWha-!?"

Even more than that, Fugil surpassed Krulcifer's prediction without trying.

And then, the Sword Device at the waist was behind a barrier and it was hard to aim at, but with Krulcifer's precise sniping that could even pass through the eye of needle and her future prediction, it was possible to hit it. *Pashi-!* Just like in the future prediction, Krulcifer's shot sent the Sword Device flying. The Sword Device that was also the control stick for mind control operation was taken away. If it was destroyed or frozen, the control of Drag-Ride would be reduced by half after that. "Philuffy! Your turn!" Krulcifer deliberately called out was to divert Fugil's focus to that way. Krulcifer herself also didn't pause and fired her freezing bullet toward the sword dancing in the air. But, the trajectory of the Sword Device suddenly changed. It was pulled back toward Fugil. "-……!?" Fugil quickly picked up the Sword Device with his empty hand, next he swept away Pile Anchor with his great sword. "You can only read the future that far? Stop with the pointless attack. It has no meaning in a fight with me." Fugil spoke shortly with a composed expression. "He pulled back the thrown Sword Device with Linker Pulse!? Did he predict our action already!?" Lisha who saw that muttered in irritation. Krulcifer also continued after her. "That's not all. If he had predicted it, then he should be able to counterattack easily too. Is he wary toward Fafnir's Divine Raiment and plan to focus on defense while waiting for us to get exhausted?" Fugil was also simply dodging Philuffy's attack with the minimal movement. It was as though there was killing intent from his movement. No, they couldn't even feel hostility from him.

Lux was capable of deflecting several hundred of attacks for 10 seconds with End Action.

"ÔöÇÔöÇSilver Flash, Hail Fang" Gin-!* With a roaring sound that could be heard splitting through the air, a flash of shockwave that drew an arc like crescent moon was fired. Originally, the silver flash the Shot Blade fired was limited to several shots per breath because of the burden on the user's stamina and mind. But this attack appeared to be an unending torrent of rain of light pouring down on the Dungeon's zone. "ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇ" Several hundred overlapping sound of slicing wind and the destruction sound of the ground getting pulverized could be heard. The storm of hail that reached them in less than a second erased the stifled scream of the girls, blowing away even their consciousness and thought. Their breathing stopped in their tenseness and fear, and ashes were swept up that blocked their vision. As it felt like the endless nightmare was endingÔöÇÔöÇbefore long, Airi opened her eyes. "……U, ah." Due to the aftermath of the attack, dust covered their bodies. The previously sturdy walls of rock were cut apart, and the terrain was completely different. While lying on the debris, Airi gingerly moved her fingertips. Fortunately, her body was intact. In addition, the Triad were lying around her with their Drag-Ride cancelled off. "EveryoneÔöÇÔöÇplease, get ahold of yourself." Perhaps due to being strained to their physical limit, the three of them could only stir a little bit. Airi intended to call for help but as she looked up, the scene made her at a loss for words. "ÔöÇÔöÇHa, hah, ku…a" Buried in the rubble with Bahamut, Lux was breathing hard. Fatigued from all the fighting, Lux's face had an anguished expression and his whole body was dripping with sweat. "End Action huh……. a hidden move of Drag-Ride operation that was introduced during the Old Empire days, a technique that unleashed unlimited slashes. But even it has to end, and it seems your strength has finally reached its limit." "Damn……, it" In an equally ragged state, Greifer in Cuelebre was laying at the opposite side of Lux. The invincibility of his Photon Dive could only be maintained for about 10 seconds at maximum. So, on this prolonged, uninterrupted attack that lasted more than ten second, he naturally could not make it out unscathed. At the same time, Lux too was protecting Airi, and the Triad using End Action and he succeeded, but it took everything he had to do so.

I don't think there is need to say it, but Fugil outskills Lux pretty hard.

Greifer, a member of the Seven Dragon Paladins and the strongest and most skilled person in his country, when he saw Fugil's actions that he took in their fight, he could see Lux and Krulcifer.

But, Fugil kept smiling and slowly took off his gaze from Greifer and glared at Magialca and the others who were 200 ml away from them. "……-!? No way in hell I'll let you!" The speed of Fugil who had compression strengthening from Reload on Fire applied on him wasn't as much as Greifer expected. If he attacked before he could break out from this area that was enveloped by Mist Cypher, it should be possible to hold him back even if only slightly. Thinking so he immediately switched into offense. In that instant, his spine froze with a chill. "……Fuh" With a smile Fugil pushed his great sword against Greifer's armor. ÔöÇÔöÇNo. He had predicted the direction Greifer would move at and placed his sword there beforehand. Photon Dive was a Divine Raiment that deflected only attacks that rushed towards the user within the defined speed. That was to say, the user would receive the external influence if the user moved closer by his own accord towards a weapon until it touched him and then strength was poured to that weapon from zero distance. It was the winning method that Krulcifer once used during the All-Dragon Battle. Greifer was lured into that. Fugil pretended that he would go to attack the others in order to bring down Greifer. (This man, he calculated until this far in just that instant!) Completely reading through the preliminary movement of an enemy's attack and then using Reload on Fire to unleash consecutive attacks in godspeed, the Quick Shot. The tactic using Bahamut that Lux was specialized at was executed in an even higher dimension by Fugil. *GA, GIGII-!* Cuelebre's tough armor was pressed and cut by the blade that was filled with energy in the state of clinging on its frame. Originally just pressing wouldn't be really effective because it would be hard to obtain cutting power through the friction from that. Even with that handicap, the destructive power was still so overwhelming and brought down Greifer and Cuelebre.

I have mentioned it multiple times but Fugil masters every type of Drag-Ride better than the one who wields it. He even used Typhon to match 5 of the 7 Seven Dragon Paladins and Aeril at the same time, while Philuffy, the original wielder of Typhon, could at much match one at a time.

Lux not only never lost a match in the mock battles he had in the Kingdom, he also practices his foresight never being touched by his opponents while at the same time stealing their techniques by watching them.

[The use of tuning is impossible if one is not knowledgable about the control interface of Drag-Ride. But that guy, he must have attempted the finesse of the technique many times since in the past. Even though he did not know the mechanism of tuning, he himself wasn't satisfied with just devising three hidden techniques. Even after that, he constantly thought whether there is something more that he could do, and day after day, on and on, he continued to work hard groping for new techniques. That's how it is.] [No way, such thing is……] 'Hard to believe', Zwei let out such voice. [He crossed sword with me at the exam. When he saw that my skill is clearly superior, that guy immediately switched his fighting style. He moved not to defeat me, he fought in the way to steal my techniquesÔöÇÔöÇthat guy always hardened his defence at the tournament in royal capital most likely isn't just for training his foresight, he also aimed to learn the technique of his opponent's attack even just by one more.] Singlen's exultant tone caused Zwei to become silent. [In a situation where that guy cannot help but joining Seven Dragon Paladins, he realized my trap while leaping into it in order to save his comrades. Until that point it's according to my expectation, but it's unexpected that he also stole two of my techniques. Even though his face looks like he cannot even kill a bug, but he is scheming like a strategist. He cannot be dealt with normal method, is what this mean.]

Lux had several hundred matches in the mock battles and he won every one of them without ever attacking his opponents.

Lux bowed and then put the Sword Device which he was wearing on the table. "I'm also ready." "As expected of you, little brother." Fugil who heard that nodded with admiration. "You've far exceeded my expectations. Being the youngest user in history, you displayed your ability by gaining several hundred victories in the training and mock battles of the Empire army. Originally, that unprecedented exploit is something which should be praised all over the country and also by the Emperor ―― but this Empire ended up being corrupted to the roots."

If you want to continue arguing then I can continue.

 

[Xulrev]

Can y'all learn to tl;dr or condense stuff like dam

So as far as Fugil vs Sasaki goes:

The Lux scaling is entirely bunk, really. Lux has a single skill that can deflect hundreds of blows for 10 seconds, max, and scales to featless foes by beating them with predictions. This is ABSURDLY inferior to what Sasaki pulls off, and that's ignoring the fact that Sasaki actually surpasses his own zenith in the middle of his fight vs Poseidon, showing continual evolution in his skill whenever pressed, something I don't see being matched.

Lux = can pull off a lesser version of Sasaki's best feat for a mere 10 seconds, that's his skill cap

Sasaki = pulls off the feat, and then proceeds to beat the person performing a superior feat to 'several hundred' attacks, considering each one is FTE to Sasaki, by evolving his skill to a level above and beyond it.

Sasaki also casually performs the prediction feats at a higher level and with better range.

The entire Lux scaling bit given for justifying Fugil is subpar, and Fugil's ability to negate future reading actually occurs mid-fight with Sasaki v Poseidon, and Sasaki evolves to read even further ahead, to thousands of moves in advance, and thousands of battle simulations at a time.

Fugil may be able to pull of a hit on Sasaki, but then he just gets destroyed, especially if physicals are equalized to ensure it's skill-only

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's just a matter of time before Fugil tries to dethrone Ikki huh?

Is what you think i would say

 

[Ionliosite]

The Lux scaling is entirely bunk, really. Lux has a single skill that can deflect hundreds of blows for 10 seconds, max, and scales to featless foes by beating them with predictions. This is ABSURDLY inferior to what Sasaki pulls off, and that's ignoring the fact that Sasaki actually surpasses his own zenith in the middle of his fight vs Poseidon, showing continual evolution in his skill whenever pressed, something I don't see being matched.

Lux = can pull off a lesser version of Sasaki's best feat for a mere 10 seconds, that's his skill cap

Sasaki = pulls off the feat, and then proceeds to beat the person performing a superior feat to 'several hundred' attacks, considering each one is FTE to Sasaki, by evolving his skill to a level above and beyond it.

Lux was deflecting several hundred of attacks that reached him in less than a second for ten seconds straigh, Lux has improved End Action since there mking a lot more with it, also Fugil can make End Action for at least several minutes, so in theory Fugil can make the same feat Lux did but for several minutes straigh. And it isn't said how much time was Sasaki deflecting the attacks on those scans.

ÔöÇÔöÇEnd Action. It was a hidden technique that alternately used the two varieties of Drag-Ride control to realize unceasing consecutive attacks. If Fugil who possessed inhuman physical ability used it, it would surely display a terrifying continuity that spanned for several minutes. NoÔöÇÔöÇmore importantly, Fugil was unleashing that technique even while he was under attack and matched the timing to use it as a counter.

I don't see which feats Poseidon has that makes him be superior to what Lux faces, because those guys are featless, yes, but Lux has faced people with multiple feats and outskilled them, like Singlen. Lux also surpasses himself in skill, at that point he was at this limit, but he is in his limit like 5 times every match and he surpassess himself. Dilwy also surpassed himself, he could only do throw several attacks before, but he improved and he was capable of throwing several hundreds of those attacks (as in the quote above).

Next, the right hand armor gripped the Shot Blade which began to emit light energy. "ÔöÇÔöÇSilver Flash, Hail Fang" Gin-!* With a roaring sound that could be heard splitting through the air, a flash of shockwave that drew an arc like crescent moon was fired. Originally, the silver flash the Shot Blade fired was limited to several shots per breath because of the burden on the user's stamina and mind. But this attack appeared to be an unending torrent of rain of light pouring down on the Dungeon's zone.

Here is him surpassing the other guy in skill by copying techniques that took him several years to master and Lux only took him to watch them, and Lux also mastered a technique that Dilwy couldn't master in those years.

The moment Dilwy turned into offense and exposed a large opening, Lux held aloft his great sword. "It's futileÔöÇÔöÇno matter how many times you try, I am much faster than you!" Dilwy was able to defense faster than Lux could swing down his sword. He moved with an extraordinary speed and Drag-Ride operation technique that only the current him could achieve. He unleashed an attack using his Shot Blade to bisect Bahamut with all his strength, however, the forcefield of barrier that was generated from Lux's left to his right completely repelled that attack. "ÔöÇÔöÇWhaaat-!?" "ÔöÇÔöÇBattle Array ― Vicissitude" One of the Drag-Ride operation techniques that the strongest Drag-Knight of Blackend Kingdom, the Blue Tyrant, Singlen Shelbrit used. Dilwy who couldn't learn that technique until he was turned into devil borrowing the power of Baptism witnessed it with his own eyes. How can this kid use this technique!? Just from seeing it only a few times during the Class promotion exam heÔöÇÔöÇ. Even more shudder of terror ran through Dilwy without giving him any time to soak in his shock. "ÔöÇÔöÇBattle Array ― Aeon Fire." "……!?" The special move that even now Dilwy couldn't use.

So Lux improves his skill mid-battle surpassing his enemy, even if he is more skilled than him at the beggining. Also, in the scans is never said that Sasaki was facing hundreds of attacks, and could you explain to me what is FTE? Because Lux and Fugil can block and dodge attacks they cannot properly recognize, see or perceive.

Sasaki also casually performs the prediction feats at a higher level and with better range.

While Sasaki's prediction is better than Fugil's, yes, there are other prediction feats Fugil is superior to, like Singlen predicting the match until Lux's Quick Draw.

Lux tried to take distance by attempting to fly to the skyÔöÇÔöÇbut, it was as though even that was seen through. Singlen didn't overlook Lux amassing a bit of propulsive power and he leaped to attack. "ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇ" It was an attack from overhead that took him by surprise. But, Lux was waiting for that. The super high speed attack that came by means of complete alignment of both mind control operation and body control operation, Quick Draw. Lux operated the frame of his whole body and swung the blade that he was holding in backhand grip into an upward thrust. His aim was the vital spot of a Drag-Ride, the shoulder where the Drake's Force Core existed. It should be impossible for the Drake that had leaped to change trajectory midair butÔöÇÔöÇ "……What a bore." Bachii-!* A barrier was deployed once more just before the attack hit, parrying Lux's Blade. "Kuh……!?" The attack that should hit with certainty was dodged and his opening was exposed instead. (How!? Did he predict even until my use of Quick Draw……?) It was an impossible reaction speed, but that was the only explanation he could think of.

Also, Sasaki's prediction doesn't seem casual to me, but I might be wrong.

The entire Lux scaling bit given for justifying Fugil is subpar, and Fugil's ability to negate future reading actually occurs mid-fight with Sasaki v Poseidon, and Sasaki evolves to read even further ahead, to thousands of moves in advance, and thousands of battle simulations at a time.

Fugil didn't need to surpass the future prediction mid-battle because he already did it before, he was already superior to that, and to every prediction in the verse. After all, Fugil has the information of every single battle that has happened for the last 1000 years, calculating how to counter everything his opponent does is a piece of cake to him.

"And then, Ouroboros is most likely endowed with the functions of flying type, land battle type, and also special equipment type too, right? If that thing was made to record all the battles until now and manage that information, then even doing something like calculating the maximum continuation time of Greifer's Divine Raiment would be a piece of cake."

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Alright time to debate Fate vs the rest of the number 3 spot because I feel like it.

1. People like Atalanta, Chiron, and Cu Chulainn are capable of sniping people from so far away that they're just dots, doing so even in pitch blackness, flawlessly blending together multiple fighting styles to pull off ridiculous combos, and utilizing every part of a weapon's structure with pinpoint precision to leave no openings in their defenses. These characters are middling tier in terms of skill.

2. Billy the Kid can slow down his perception of time through skill to react and attack three times faster than those who technically have the same combat speed. Tristan outskills the people listed above with his eyes closed.

3. Lancelot masters anything he can even remotely consider a weapon the instant he gains control of it (Which would include Drag-Rides OvO), perfecting its usage as though it were an extension of his body that he has trained for a lifetime, and is this skilled even when driven insane to the point of non-sentience.

4. Achilles can adapt to an opponent's fighting style on the fly, even if they already know his entire fighting style in turn better than he does. He can do this while fighting multiple such opponents at once.

5. Karna can identify and strike 78 weakpoints on an unfamiliar opponent in an instant, with perfect precision.

6. Arjuna's arrows are mistaken for high-speed homing missles simply due to his level of analytical prediction and aim, and can slow down his perception to the point that Billy the Kid's reflexes seem slow. He can also retaliate in close quarters against Karna while using a ranged weapon, by countering Karna's high-speed melee strikes with projectiles fired to deflect them

7. Rama can perform the same feats as Karna and Arjuna with any weapon.

6. Sigurd can instantly and casually process enough information about his opponent and the battlefield to drive other servants to agony via sheer brain overloading.

8. Yagyu can easily and effortlessly read an attack the moment the opponent begins to enact it, and comes up with a counterattack that reflects the damage in the same instant. He can also cut down seven opponents of comparable strength and speed in a single move. It's even implied that he can learn everything about an opponent through sheer analysis of their physical state.

9. Okita has her causality bullshit, and also moves with absolute perfect efficiency, to the point that she can cut through space by streamlining her movements and cross to an opponent instantly.

10. Okada learns an entire fighting style and/or school of swordsmanship by glancing at a single move, and moved as though his sword was an extension of himself from the moment he picked one up as a child

11. Li Shuwen's skills are so incredible that even Okada can't replicate them, and that's through sheer practice and experience. He possesses a self-created technique that can't be defended against or countered by any other skill in the verse even if the opponent has predicted his usage of it (except for possibly Hozoin's stances)

12. Hozoin moves with such perfection and grace that characters of the aforementioned levels of skill are nearly moved to tears by watching him fight, and a woman who is so skilled that she alters probability through the perfection of her swings estimates that she would lose 31 out of 32 battles against him. His Eleven Stances are capable of flawlessly defending against and countering every other skill in the verse (except for possibly Li Shuwen's), and can even counterattack against hax such as a torrent of corrosive liquid that fills an entire forest. His skill is such that it's physically impossible for the enemy's mind to adapt to his moves, even if they are on the level of all of the aforementioned warriors.

13. Pre-Zero Musashi managed to image-train against a simulated Hozoin, and came up with a way to defeat him after 32 tries, and as previously mentioned can alter the probability of her strikes failing to ensure that she cuts exactly what she is aiming for.

13. Zero Musashi and Infinity Kojirou laughably outskill all of the above to a degree described in universe as "infinite".

 

[Ionliosite]

1. Krulcifer have an sniper rifle that can hit even people that can easily predict attacks like Lux, she can also hit with extreme precision even while moving at high speeds. Philuffy can make various styles of attacks without delay making a combo similar to End Action. Lux can say the exact weakpoint of a weapon and attack it using the tip of the Blade, otherwise, Critical Hit won't work, it needs to be in that exact point with just the tip.

2. Lux's Quick Draw is better than Velvet's Quick Draw. Quick Draw in general is an ability that allows you to make an attack that can cut multiple things at the same time againts people far faster than you and they still cannot perceive it. So Lux is superior to that, let alone Fugil.

3. Fugil already masters everything and in fact, he outskills Mishis that have her own battle style that counter every other Drag-Ride that exists having practiced to no end for hundreds of years knowing how to counter every ability and trait they have. Also, Drag-Rides are not weapons, they are glorified armors with weapons on them

4. Fugil literally adapted to people that created counters to his battle style, creating counters to those counters basically instantly. He also defeated Singlen who perfectly countered Lux's battle style and at some point outskilled him. Fugil doesn't need to face people superior to him because he is superior to everyone with their own battle style, like when he used Typhon he faced againts 5 of the Seven Dragon Paladins and Aeril, when Philuffy, the original wielder of Typhon, could mach only one at best.

5. Lux can hit hundreds of pressure points with completed End Action. Lux's End Action is trash compared to Fugil's.

6. Krulcifer can do several hundred of calculations to predict all of her opponent's moves and do a bunch of ricoshet shoots at the same time and each of them have extreme precision due to each of them not having a single inch of deviation and all of them hitting vital spots on her whole opponent's body. She also could fight againts Lux in close range while using long range weapons without problem. And you know who has way better prediction than her? Fugil.

7. Read points 5 and 6 again.

8. Fugil can process every battle that have happened in the last 1000 years in an instant.

9. Fugil can counter attack the very instant the attack gets done or even mid-attack and using something similar to Critical Hit he can reflect the attack of his opponent by attacking the weakpoint of his opponent's weapon using just the tip of his blade. Fugil casually outskilled Lux in a single move before and the same thing happened to Mishis. Lux literally analyzes his opponent battle style making his movements harder to predict, while also predicting his opponent's attacks and stealing their techniques.

10. Celistia is prepared to a bunch of battle situations and can counter attack with the best response to them, and when attacking she doesn't leave a single moment for her opponent to counter her attacks. And you know cutting through space is bs

11. Sacred Eclipse learned Lux's foresight by just watching him. She mimicred his whole dodging skills by just watching him dodge only once. Yes, even hax lords as SE have skill feats in the series

Ok, here comes the bs ones.

12. Despite the fact that Singlen could perfectly counter Lux's battle style (more than once) he was still outmatched by Fugil. Also, I'm pretty sure that not having your skill being replicated isn't skill and it is more a resistance. I couldn't read the description of that technique and not think of Recoil Burst, a technique that absolutely no one in the verse managed to counter but Fugil himself, since not even Singlen, who could counter every other thing Lux could throw at him, couldn't counter Recoil Burst.

13. Singlen has 10 Senjin techniques, some of them even defending him from attacks like End Action, they are extremely complicated technqiues that took several years for an elite Drag-Knight to master. While facing Singlen, Lux knew that even a single attack from him would be lethal. Singlen is one of the people who could actually counter Ouroboros despite it's Law hax. Fugil can dodge AoEs that covers an entire forest like he did againts Rosa.

14. Fugil created a counter to Greifer's ability by watching many different battles on Ouroboro's record. And this is something he did mid-battle on the instant Greifer activated the ability for the first time.

15. Fugil outskills the whole verse, it is even stated by the narrator of the novel.

Before long everything would return back to nothing. Peace would crumble without fail along with the flow of time. Leaving behind only Fugil, the strongest and most skilled Drag-Knight.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Also @Ricky

Just finished Shimosa. The info on Yagyu's page is wrong. It was Pre-Zero Musashi that stated that Yagyu was superior to her. Post-Zero Musashi is just as infinitely above him as she is above everyone else in the verse besides Infinite Kojirou, which is explicitly spelled out at the end of the event.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

@Ion

1. Touché, though I should also point out that all archers in the verse are able to predict and ricochet-snipe the movements of a vast variety of precognitive abilities that work within split-second windows, and the ranged characters I've mentioned put all of them to shame.

2. Touché

3. Lancelot's instant mastery applied to an airplane and a chair, glorified armor is well within his boundaries. Once again, Hozoin can casually counter any fighting style in the verse, even those with causality and space-cutting bullshit, and even those invented by gods with millennia of experience, and he is arguably outskilled by Yagyu, who is vastly outskilled by Musashi.

4. That's exactly what Achilles does, and he can't even perceive Yagyu's own adaptive counterattacks.

5. Touché

6. Exactly what Karna, Rama, Arjuna, Arash, and Sigurd can all do in different ways, all of whom are skillstomped by Musashi.

7. ye

8. Musashi can simulate 32 battles in an instant, and after improving her skills by fighting Hozoin, upgraded that number to thousands of battles, allowing her to adapt to, match, and then surpass Yagyu despite his aforementioned bullshit as soon as they clashed. This was before she reached Zero, which puts her vastly (but unquantifiably) above these feats.

9. What Yagyu and Sigurd both do on a constant basis.

10. Similar to what many of the middle to top tiers can do

11. Sounds about even with Okada, though he can do that while half-assing it and not really paying attention.

12. Resistance gained through skill. And the comparison with Recoil Burst seems very fair, so I'll give you that one.

13. Basically the same description as Hozoin's and Li Shuwen's abilities when compared even to other skillgods

14. See point 8

15. Infinity Kojirou outskills the verse to the point that Musashi, who had surpassed all of the aforementioned characters, and Ritsuka, who had watched her do so, and had previously encountered other versions of Kojirou and Musashi with huge levels of skill BS, both saw him standing on the stairs of the burning temple and felt his presence, and could think of no description of him except "He is the best. There is no comparison." before he even moved to begin fighting. And when they fought (shattering the laws of the universe in the process and creating a pocket reality of nothingness because yay for unquantifiable flowery feats), Musashi instantly became his equal and would have dueled him for eternity if Ritsuka hadn't been there to support her, allowing her to surpass him.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yujiro can do, do something similar to, or outskill someone that can do all of the things mentioned from 1-13 Pre-Zero Musashi.

13 Zero Musashi, I don't even know how to quantify something like infinite skill

 

[Creaturemaster971]

@ Baki

That's fair, and that's why I'm relying on her scaling to the other characters rather than actually using the infinite skill part.

 

[Ionliosite]

1. A bunch of characters in the verse can also predict a lot and then there is someone who can outpredict them, and someone who can outpredict them and so on.

3. Again, Mishis and Singlen can do the same thing. Mishis literally casually countered the Syvalles and even them in a perfect shape couldn't even compare to Mishis. Millennia of experience isn't that much and you know it.

4. Yeah, but Fugil also adapts to Lux own capable adaptation that was capable of surpassing Dilwy, Singlen and even a clone of Fugil.

6. So what? Krulcifer is outskilled by Mishis who is outskilled by Singlen who is outskilled by Fugil.

8. Fugil can manage the information of all battles to perfectly calculate the weaknessess and battle styles of his opponents.

9. Fair.

10. Celistia is high tier in skill at best. So this is fair.

11. Fair.

12. Resistance gained through skill is not a thing (me thinks), but I don't mind in this one.

13. I don't know what are you refering to. Are you saying they are similar in this regard?

14. See point 8

15. Singlen surpassed all characters in the verse to the point Fugil just considered the Paladins as something to buy time and wasn't serious againts them, while Fugil considered Singlen as his only treat. And then there is Lux, who, at the end, surpassed Singlen and fought againts Fugil and he still got outskilled by Fugil despite Fugil was questioning the reason of his own existence during the whole final battle.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

1. Alright

3. True, I just used the experience thing as a small supporter

4. Fair

6. By how great of a margin does Fugil outskill Singlen? Because all of those characters are far outskilled by Okita and Okada, who are narrowly outskilled by Li Shuwen and Hozoin, who are one-sidedly outskilled by Yagyu, who is massively outskilled by Infinity Kojirou, who was surpassed by Musashi.

8. Fair

13. Yes, Hozoin has the Eleven perfect techniques that defend him from even physics-bending skills that he has never encountered prior, and Li Shuwen's every attack is lethal and his secret technique can't be countered, even by physics-bending defenses he has never encountered prior. Neither he nor Hozoin could predict what would happen if they used their skills against each other, only that it would end in death (likely for both of them).

14. See point 8

15. Yagyu demonstrated that he was on another level compared to Hozoin and Li Shuwen, who treated Okada as a talented learner (but still just a learner), who was equal to Okita, whose skills were completely beyond the realm of possibility even for the likes of Karna, Rama, Arjuna, Arash, and Sigurd. And Yagyu is, once again, massively outskilled by Kojirou, to the point that there was no comparison possible.

 

[Ionliosite]

6. Fugil defeated him twice in a row, the first was a warm up and the second one was serious so Singlen died in the process.

8. See point 14.

13. So they are similar in this one, ok.

14. See point 8.

15. Singlen demostrated he was far superior to Mishis in skill by not getting utterly destroyed by Fugil the very instant the battle began and actually fought againts him. Mishis is considered that there is nothing in the human realm that could make up to her strenght and also casually surpassed the Syvalles who are the most skilled people in the New Kingdom. Singlen is also the most skilled of the Paladins (until Lux surpassed him) and each of the Paladins is the most skilled person in their countries. But again, Fugil defeated Singlen twice in a row and when he fought Lux during the final battle Fugil outskilled him.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

6. Alrighty

8/14. Reeee

15. So, overall I would evaluate the top-tiers as such...

Hozoin and Li Shuwen =/< Singlen < Yagyu =/< King Lux < Fugil < Infinity Kojirou =/< Zero Musashi

However, that's just the conclusion I've come to, based on this

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Hopefully awaits judgement day, when Yujiro, Musashi, Fugil, Sasaki, and Taskmaster will all join forces against Ikki and his patron god Earl

 

[Ionliosite]

I wouldn't say the scale is like that.

I mean, Okada's feat is similar to Sacred Eclipse's feat (or vice versa), and Sacred Eclipse gets outskilled by so many people is not even funny. And Sacred Eclipse fought againts Mishis and Mishis won againts Sacred Eclipse (I mean, even Celistia defeated Sacred Eclipse at some point, and she is not even top tier in terms of skill). Prince Lux is already superior to Celistia (and the rest of Syvalles).

I would rate Singlen superior to Yagyu, why? Because Singlen not only have his 10 Senjin techniques, he also outpredicted Lux in some points, even reading Quick Draw, something that is normally impossible, and he could also prevent Lux's attacks with his Senjin while also reflecting them. Singlen have learned things from his opponents that he shouldn't even know, like when he managed to use Over Limit after seeing Lux using it which makes absolutely no sense since you need to input a secret code within the Drag-Ride to activate Over Limit, and yet Singlen somehow copy this code just by seeing Lux activating it. And for the record, Lux doesn't know the code either, Fugil erased that memory from him, so he is only able to input it while uncouncious. Singlen also surpassed Lux with Senjin techniques, Lux literally mastered two Senjin techniques by watching them surpassing someone who have been training them from years and that can also improve his own attacks like making an attack that launched several attacks to launching several hundred of attacks and can keep doing it during 10 seconds.

Prince Lux was considered as a fool by Singlen and that he was inferior to him in skill. Lux can also analyze his opponent battle style to counter attack, in fact, he deflected several hundred attacks the instant they were launched and they reached him in less than a second, and keep doing it during 10 seconds straight. Lux learned techniques mid-battle againts an opponent who have been training those technqiues for several years and only ,managed to learn one while Lux learned them just by watching them. Againts Singlen, he outpredicted Singlen due to making such scheming mid-battle that made Singlen fall into his trap. And then he surpassed a clone of Fugil, that was superior to him in strenght, speed, durability, technique, skill, and others, to the point he exploited his weaknessess and managed to defeat him despite Fugil's clone previously outskilling him.

King Lux is superior to Singlen in skill, I don't know exatly to what point since they never faced each other, but he was still superior to the verse and he was still outskilled by Fugil. It is stated that Fugil is an existence that no one can surpass since he is the strongest and most skilled Drag-Knight in existence. It was also stated that there was no way for Fugil to lose againts Lux, there is no comparison againts those two.

I'm pretty sure there is more, but I don't remember most matches or feats in the Seven Dragon Paladin Arc.

 

[Ionliosite]

Hopefully awaits judgement day, when Yujiro, Musashi, Fugil, Sasaki, and Taskmaster will all join forces against Ikki and his patron god Earl

Earl is actually Riku Misora OvO.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Alright. In that case, would you care to have Fugil and Musashi share the spot? While I still would view Musashi and Kojirou as superior, I think at this point it would be difficult to really argue one way or the other.

It appears to have come down to:

Yagyu is so outskilled by Kojirou that it wouldn't even be a fight.

Senjin & King Lux (who are likely superior to Yagyu) barely put up a fight against Fugil, and are still mostly eclipsed.

 

[Ionliosite]

I wouldn't mind since even when characters shares the spot doesn't actually mean they are equal, just that they are so close that we can't come to a conclusion on who is more skilled.

PD: I laughed when you called Singlen "Senjin" because that sums up his battle style perfectly.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Nice. Excellent debate, my friend.

PD: Whoops

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Might as well throw Vandre Schnee for a spot, he's mastered every martial arts that exists.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So Musashi (Saber) moves to third as well?

 

[BakiHanma18]

How does Vandre stack up to someone like, say, Pray?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

From what's on her profile she is just said to be the strongest Knight with extensive knowledge in combat and martial arts.

Vandre mastered every martial arts that exists despite only being like 20 years old, would think he is more skilled, the most skilled? Doubtful cause apparently the guys here do absurd things here where their skill is straight up hax.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hopefully awaits judgement day, when Yujiro, Musashi, Fugil, Sasaki, and Taskmaster will all join forces against Ikki and his patron god Earl

Earl is actually Riku Misora OvO.

Am not Riku Misora, just his advisor.

Judgement day? You guys better hurry up, the more you wait the more feats he gains. He's already gained a kind of time manip via skill

Right now he's at a point where in a half dead state he performed a technique without anyone noticing that would take effect almost literally after 1 chapter (beginning of chapter to end of chapter kind of difference), and this end would actually be a significant amount of time after he had died. The timing on when the technique would take effect had to be perfect btw.

So he had precoged how a fight would play out EXACTLY (while taking into account the fact that he would die, people would get angry, then that they would calm down and literally all the small talk they would do and literally everything else) all while fighting an opponent he couldn't beat in a half dead state and making the technique impossible to detect. So like, if his precog, you have this, so basically laughs at all other forms of precog as he's not even precoging the movement of one person, no no, he's precoging the moves of ppl that weren't even there.

So yeah, back to my point, the more you wait, the more stuff like this ^^^ ikki gains.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

So Musashi (Saber) moves to third as well?

Yes, if you please

 

[Firephoenixearl]

How many ppl will go to 3rd place? Geez.

We'll end up with 50 ppl on 3rd place at this rate.

 

[Ricky365]

Also @Ricky
Just finished Shimosa. The info on Yagyu's page is wrong. It was Pre-Zero Musashi that stated that Yagyu was superior to her. Post-Zero Musashi is just as infinitely above him as she is above everyone else in the verse besides Infinite Kojirou, which is explicitly spelled out at the end of the event.

I haven't read Shimosa yet, but is Musashi a servant or a human though??

 

[Ionliosite]

What does Taskmaster do that makes him so special?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What does Taskmaster do that makes him so special?

Hmm he is special because cal is backing him up.

Iirc knows all martial arts, and outskills ppl like cap, who has some throwing feats and some minor precog.

 

[Ricky365]

What does Taskmaster do that makes him so special?

Hmm he is special because cal is backing him up.
Iirc knows all martial arts, and outskills ppl like cap, who has some throwing feats and some minor precog.

Is Captain America even anywhere close to being most skilled character in fiction? Why is outskilling him a feat? Just asking for understanding

 

[Ionliosite]

From what's on her profile she is just said to be the strongest Knight with extensive knowledge in combat and martial arts.

Iirc she has also mastered every weapon on earth.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is Captain America even anywhere close to being most skilled character in fiction? Why is outskilling him a feat? Just asking for understanding

Knows all martial arts, can throw his shield with good precision and has some minor precog iirc.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Outskilling someone who knows all martial arts is a good third place feat, right? Or should he be changed?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Ionliosite So does Vandre.

 

[Ionliosite]

@Baki That's something the other people in third place do by a great amount, but I'm pretty sure there were other feats like Hawkeye's sniping or something like that. And Pray already masters all weapons and martial arts.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

All martial arts is not all that impressive really. That's composite human basically. And composite human in a spot with almost superhumans is not a good idea. Actually to hell with it, imma debunk the feats i remember from Captain America:

• Master of all martial arts

• • It just gets you to composite human, nothing all that impressive considering not all of the martial arts are that useful in combat with a TON being almost completely non combat applicable, with the purpose being almost meditating.

• Outskilled the internet

• • Not all that great, the people on the internet aren't always the most skilled ones. And even then it is at MOST composite human. Saying that is a good feat is like saying, the top 3 here would lose to normal humans.

• Shield throwing feats

• • Not only is that very very limited in combat as people can just catch it or kick it off, let alone doing stuff like predicting its trajectory, but even then it is not something that normal humans don't already do.

 

[Ricky365]

Is it? From what i understand, this threads idea of skill is something like accuracy, precision, control etc.. Mastering all martial arts and or weapons seems vague. To what degree are they mastered? If you take for example in the first thread of this series someone said this about Vash.

His shooting aim is so good, he can shoot through a wire hanging from a space ship that's floating in the stratosphere, from a position on the ground.

You can master every martial arts and weapon that dosen't really seem like "skill" if you compare it to this guy for example. Could be wrong, just discussing, not saying i'm right. )

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Throwing skill is not all THAT good. I mean not that strong in combat. Ppl can just catch it or aim dodge it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Mastering all martial arts is not vague, is pretty straightforward. I mean, Vash is really REALLY good at sniping, but he is overclassed in other battle forms like using other weapons, martial arts, etc. Mastering every martial art is a skill feat, but to Composite Human levels at best. Also, you can have accuracy, precision and control with a lot of weapons and martial arts.