MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I watched the first episode and some scenes from others. It's definitely not for me, the whole show is all too Disney Channelm teenage movie for me to begin with so it has already "problems". Same for the religious part, I'm neither a Muslim nor religious in general so I don't care at all about the representation (though from what I've red, various Muslims are actually kind of disappointed, if anything almost as much as those who are satisfied).

For the rest, it's really not that great. The main actress is honestly amazing and very fun to watch, the whole thing is worth watching almost for her alone. Shame that her powers were changed but they're relatively cool looking so it's ok. Aside from that, the other characters are either boring and uninteresting, if a bit fun, or outright annoying (but then again, probably because of the whole teenage show atmosphere). The sidekick in particular feels outright punchable for me. The villains are boring as ****, once again we have the group of officials who are in fact a race of ancient superhuman species that aren't necessarily evil but misundertood/well-intentioned extremists/anti-villains, etc (seriously, why was this changed, why? To stay close to islamic mythos? So we're gnoring the source material?). Music is also fun but not exceptional (though honestly, the MCU rarely had truly memorable or great OST), the action sequences are really classic and not exceptional either and the direction is meh

And finally, the series suffers from the same problem as Black Panther between Ragnarok and IW or Falcon & WS after Endgame, it's around more or less street level characters. And to me, this has become boring. We're entering the multiverse, the Eternals have showed up, Arishem (literally GOD for the MCU, the original creator of everything) and the Celestials, who are basically cosmic gods creating suns as casually as breathing, made a proper appearence to, Wanda is the Scarlet Witch at full power, Strange is stronger than ever, Thor will reach his absolute full potential, we'll have Gorr who will kill gods. I. DON'T. CARE. ABOUT. STREET. OR. WALL. LEVEL. CHARACTERS. ANYMORE. Mind you, it's an entirely personal thing but still, I just can't think "wow these street tier people are amazing" when serial killers of gods and the creator of the MCU are rooming around in the background.

So overall, the series is not trashed like some stupid people say (mostly because many are just racist or islamophobic and some are like me, they just don't like the teenage movie feeling) and the main actress is really great but it's definitely not the best Marvel series and honestly, it's really not that good either. Guess it's a matter of personal feelings though.

Wait, so the villains are Jinn???

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Wait, so the villains are Jinn???

Yep, they're Djinns. Apparently, they're creatures from the Light Dimension and their powers come from thier ability to harness its energy

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Yep, they're Djinns. Apparently, they're creatures from the Light Dimension and their powers come from this

Wait what??? The evil Jinn are meant to be servants of Satan (Satan himself is a rogue Jinn), where in the world did them being misunderstood anti-heroes come from???

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Wait what??? The evil Jinn are meant to be servants of Satan (Satan himself is a rogue Jinn), where in the world did them being misunderstood anti-heroes come from???

I suppose this is the direction they're heading in that direction in the end, like another group of supernatural beings persecuted by the humans and their suposed evil nature is once again something written by the villains to vivify them because humans always bad.

Though they did try to murder Kamala because they want her bracelet. Cause apparently, they can't have their full power without it. Because plot. I guess.

Also, aren't there good or neutral Djinns in Islamic traditions? And tbh, Satan himself has sometimes been portrayed as something of an anti-hero like figure, both in fiction, like the Lucifer Fox series, or even in some mythos, some satanists are actually people who think the Devil represents freedom and is a tragic heroic figure who rebelled against the tyrannic order of God instead of being a group of people who just use religion to get foundings or outright psychos who literally want to summon demons, if not Old Scratch himself and perform blood sacrifices (and believe me, this isn't just an invention from movies, these psychos exist). And outside of these cases, Satan is seen as some as a necessary evil created to tempt humans to put their faith in God on trial and isn't the emperor and master of evil he's normally seen as.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I suppose this is the direction they're heading in that direction in the end, like another group of supernatural beings persecuted by the humans and their suposed evil nature is once again something written by the villains to vivify them because humans bad.
Though they dod try to murder Kamala because they want her bracelet. Cause apparently, they can't have their full power without it.

And tbh, Satan himself has sometimes been portrayed as something of an anti-hero like figure, both in fiction, like the Lucifer Fox series, or even in some mythos, some satanists are actually people who think the Devil represent freedom and is a tragic heroic figure who rebelled against the tyrannic order of God instead of being a group of people who just use religion to get foundings or outright psychos who literally want to summon demons, if not Old Scratch himself and perform blood sacrifices (and believe me, this isn't just an invention from movies, these psychos exist). And outside of these cases, Satan is seen as some as a necessary evil created to tempt humans to put their faith in God on trial and isn't the monstruous master of evil he's normally considered.

Islamic Satan is considered a necessary evil, as in Islam God pardoned Satan as a test for humanity, and Islam also attributes God as the true creator and master of both Good and Evil (Though out of respect muslims attribute only Good to God). But in Islam, the Devil is still considered as an absolutely wicked and vile being (Oddly enough he is considered Rejected Evil on the villains wiki because he is not heinous enough, what is more interesting was that I was the one who tried to propose him for Pure Evil.)

There are good jinn in Islam. One whole chapter of the Qur'an (Surah 72nd, or Surah Jinn) is about a group of pious Jinn who witnessed the prophet Muhammad and recanted from their disobedience.

 

[DuDE01010]

Best Marvel content has always been street level. I guess people invested in feats would prefer larger scale movies, but often times they're lesser quality.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I suppose this is the direction they're heading in that direction in the end, like another group of supernatural beings persecuted by the humans and their suposed evil nature is once again something written by the villains to vivify them because humans always bad.

Though they did try to murder Kamala because they want her bracelet. Cause apparently, they can't have their full power without it. Because plot. I guess.

Also, aren't there good or neutral Djinns in Islamic traditions? And tbh, Satan himself has sometimes been portrayed as something of an anti-hero like figure, both in fiction, like the Lucifer Fox series, or even in some mythos, some satanists are actually people who think the Devil represents freedom and is a tragic heroic figure who rebelled against the tyrannic order of God instead of being a group of people who just use religion to get foundings or outright psychos who literally want to summon demons, if not Old Scratch himself and perform blood sacrifices (and believe me, this isn't just an invention from movies, these psychos exist). And outside of these cases, Satan is seen as some as a necessary evil created to tempt humans to put their faith in God on trial and isn't the emperor and master of evil he's normally seen as.

Jinn are essentially humans in the sense of there are good, bad and gray. Some serve the devil others at one point even served prophets and stuff like that. In terms of how iblis(satan) is viewed in Islam. His pretty much an avowed enemy of humanity in every sense of the word due to his on ego and pride

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Best Marvel content has always been street level. I guess people invested in feats would prefer larger scale movies, but often times they're lesser quality.

I enjoyed Ragnarok and Infinity War. Loki was terrible, and from I watched of What If was wasted potential. But my two favorite MCU movies (Winter Soldier and Iron Man) are street tier and I see nothing wrong with that.

Although it depends on the quality of the feat too, if a feat has no setup, makes no sense in the plot, or the movie is just boring, I don't think anybody would care.

The TVA from episode 1 is an example, sure it was cool for a feat that they control space and time and all of history, but looking at it it destroyed the entire MCU.

Meanwhile Thanos throwing the moon was cool, and made audiences happy, because it truly showed what the stones were made of and gave weight to the flashbacks and exposition we saw for half a decade (I actually wished that feat was quantifiable for Vs Battles scaling but whatever)

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I'd argue Infinity War is in clear contention for best MCU movie

 

[Propellus]

I. DON'T. CARE. ABOUT. STREET. OR. WALL. LEVEL. CHARACTERS. ANYMORE.

To be completely honest with you, Street levelers and wall levelers are still based. Hell, the dark knight trilogy is considered to be the best superhero franchise but yet the top tiers are wall levelers.

 

[Dalesean027]

Best Marvel content has always been street level. I guess people invested in feats would prefer larger scale movies, but often times they're lesser quality.

For me it's not even about the feats though they would have to genuinely be better if we had her original powers but that aside this show would absolutely be a 10 for me if they're not just going further and further in digging the hole they already have for themselves by further character assassinateming Ms. Marvel and just absolutely ******* her origins to hell making things needlessly more complicated and trying to go the whole generic multiversal tie in shit with a "I'm not so bad I'm just misunderstood" type villain group who has absolutely no charm and should just be displayed as legit evil as after a day of waiting they were going to literally go murder an entire wedding party's worth of civilians

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

While the best comic book movie content is usually grounded and smaller in scale, I'd argue Infinity War is one of the best

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

For me it's not even about the feats though they would have to genuinely be better if we had her original powers but that aside this show would absolutely be a 10 for me if they're not just going further and further in digging the hole they already have for themselves by further character assassinateming Ms. Marvel and just absolutely ******* her origins to hell making things needlessly more complicated and trying to go the whole generic multiversal tie in shit with a "I'm not so bad I'm just misunderstood" type villain group who has absolutely no charm and should just be displayed as legit evil as after a day of waiting they were going to literally go murder an entire wedding party's worth of civilians

Are the villains delusional but still considered evil (Like Thanos)???

 

[Propellus]

Best Marvel content has always been street level. I guess people invested in feats would prefer larger scale movies, but often times they're lesser quality.

Why is it that the weaker superheroes seem to get much better quality movies than the most powerful ones? I've been noticing that a lot

 

[Dalesean027]

Are the villains delusional but still considered evil (Like Thanos)???

Spoiler

their whole motivation is supposedly that they want to go back to their original dimension but doing so recklessly would **** over our reality as they require as much energy as the sun generates to do so properly but they obviously don't have that but they're willing to ultimately **** over this reality and kill any civilians to get what they want so no they're not even delusional they're fully cognizant of their actions but are being displayed as somewhat sympathetic and misunderstood

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Spoiler

their whole motivation is supposedly that they want to go back to their original dimension but doing so recklessly would **** over our reality as they require as much energy as the sun generates to do so properly but they obviously don't have that but they're willing to ultimately **** over this reality and kill any civilians to get what they want so no they're not even delusional they're fully cognizant of their actions but are being displayed as somewhat sympathetic and misunderstood

Spoiler

Wait, they don't want to destroy Earth 19999, so what they do is cause chaos on Earth 199999????

Also, what year does Mrs. Marvel take place??? I'm pretty sure they should be able to call one of the sorcerers due to the sling ring like in Ragnarok

 

[Dalesean027]

Spoiler

Wait, they don't want to destroy Earth 19999, so what they do is cause chaos on Earth 199999????

Also, what year does Mrs. Marvel take place??? I'm pretty sure they should be able to call one of the sorcerers due to the sling ring like in Ragnarok

Yep and do so needlessly instead of coming to literally anyone in power for a solution and Ms. Marvel takes place post Hawkeye and Moonknight which both take place post Multiverse of Madness

 

[DuDE01010]

I enjoyed Ragnarok and Infinity War. Loki was terrible, and from I watched of What If was wasted potential. But my two favorite MCU movies (Winter Soldier and Iron Man) are street tier and I see nothing wrong with that.

Although it depends on the quality of the feat too, if a feat has no setup, makes no sense in the plot, or the movie is just boring, I don't think anybody would care.

The TVA from episode 1 is an example, sure it was cool for a feat that they control space and time and all of history, but looking at it it destroyed the entire MCU.

Meanwhile Thanos throwing the moon was cool, and made audiences happy, because it truly showed what the stones were made of and gave weight to the flashbacks and exposition we saw for half a decade (I actually wished that feat was quantifiable for Vs Battles scaling but whatever)

While those were good movies, my point is that no marvel content has ever reached the quality of street tier content.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

While those were good movies, my point is that no marvel content has ever reached the quality of street tier content.

Infinity War did. However, Infinity War is seemingly an outlier

 

[Dalesean027]

Eh I quite enjoyed Strange 1, Ragnarok and the Duo of Infinity War and Endgame, I actually like CM more than I did years ago but that's just me however year more of the Cap tier and street is pretty cool though I am personally a fan of the cosmic tier shit if it's done good

 

[DuDE01010]

Infinity War did. However, Infinity War is seemingly an outlier

Good movie but majority would agree, in terms of quality and writing, daredevil, jessica jones, luke cage, punisher, raimi spiderman, spiderverse, wintersoilder > infinity war

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The Arms!

Me when I learned that Natalie Portman's muscles are CGId:

L moment

 

[Propellus]

Infinity War did. However, Infinity War is seemingly an outlier

While infinity war is a great movie, it didn't really have the same feeling of effect as the old street levelers movies

 

[ArkhamDC06]

To be completely honest with you, Street levelers and wall levelers are still based. Hell, the dark knight trilogy is considered to be the best superhero franchise but yet the top tiers are wall levelers.

Was talking about stuff in the MCU. Tbh, I'm much more of a DC fan, especially of Batman who for me is THE best superhero in fiction, so I care much more about street level characters from DC than in Marvel. For example, I'm much more attached to street characters in Young Justice than in the MCU. That's a personal feeling but that's how I feel

 

[ArkhamDC06]

While those were good movies, my point is that no marvel content has ever reached the quality of street tier content.

IW, the first Avengers, Eternals, Doctor Strange and Ragnarök did though

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Good movie but majority would agree, in terms of quality and writing, daredevil, jessica jones, luke cage, punisher, raimi spiderman, spiderverse, wintersoilder > infinity war

Infinity War was pretty well written, although I might be either biased and or misremembering certain things

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Although Infinity War is a large scale crossover event, it always struck me as amazingly standing out on it's own

 

[DuDE01010]

IW, the first Avengers, Eternals, Doctor Strange and Ragnarök did though

Stop the cap

Infinity War was pretty well written, although I might be either biased and or misremembering certain things

Oh 100% def A - S tier interms of the MCU. Infinity war was well written to the point that it made Endgame bit of a disappointment.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I actually wished that feat was quantifiable for Vs Battles scaling but whatever

It was calculated at Continent level

 

[DuDE01010]

Like Shang Chi was such a goated film until they started doing the different dimension, dragons and bats thing at the end and went down hill.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

It was calculated at Continent level

Not the surface wiping, the feat of Thanos chucking down meteors was unknown due to the fact we do not know how much of the moon was thrown off

 

[Dalesean027]

Like Shang Chi was such a goated film until they started doing the different dimension, dragons and bats thing at the end and went down hill.

I think having the other dimension doesn't ruin the movie by any means it's really the fact that the final fight was done in a unfulfilling way with them killing the main baddy who actually had good writing and chemistry with the cast for a lazy dragon with no personality

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The final 2 fights were still awesome as **** though. Shang-Chi is the best movie in phase 4 for me. (NWH was great but I feel like its a bit overrated because its fanservice overload and there are a lot of people out there who are big spidey fans and I'm personally not one of them)

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Good movie but majority would agree, in terms of quality and writing, daredevil, jessica jones, luke cage, punisher, raimi spiderman, spiderverse, wintersoilder > infinity war

I mean both Raimi Spider-Man and Spiderverse are not MCU, but those movies just outshine the MCU

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Spider-Verse isn't exactly small scale lmao

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

raimi spiderman

Raimi Spider-Man had good writing!? God nostalgia is really good at making silver look like gold.

 

[DuDE01010]

I think having the other dimension doesn't ruin the movie by any means it's really the fact that the final fight was done in a unfulfilling way with them killing the main baddy who actually had good writing and chemistry with the cast for a lazy dragon with no personality

Which wouldn't have happened if they didn't go with the good dragon and evil bats route lol and kept it street level.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The first Avengers, Eternals, Doctor Strange and Ragnarök did though

Disagree, The First Avengers is fun, but it still feels more like a fun TV movie

Eternals

Not going to get into this

Doctor Strange

Which one, MoM or the first??? Doctor Strange 1 had a creative climax, but Kaicellius was boring, and it was kind of dampened by the humor and the magic being standard wizard karate. MoM I did not watch, so I cannot say my opinion, but I heard there is no real "multiverse" aspect, which is pretty disappointing

 

[DuDE01010]

I mean both Raimi Spider-Man and Spiderverse are not MCU, but those movies just outshine the MCU

I was talking Marvel as a whole hence why I brought up netflix.

Spider-Verse isn't exactly small scale lmao

It is pretty small scale just with a big goal.

 

[Dalesean027]

The final 2 fights were still awesome as **** though. Shang-Chi is the best movie in phase 4 for me. (NWH was great but I feel like its a bit overrated because its fanservice overload and there are a lot of people out there who are big spidey fans and I'm personally not one of them)

Agreed personally shit was cool as **** to me but I understand the feelings ans opinions like these

Which wouldn't have happened if they didn't go with the good dragon and evil bats route lol and kept it street level.

Since you are correct but then again this is the actual Ten Rings we're talking about and they as a weapon and organization couldn't have been this built up threat that could actually handle Iron Man and only be like wall level it's literally just how they handled it