- 17,276
- 27,078
Yeah no you missed some stuff this isn't the case
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
4-B MCU OWO???
- Thread starter Emirp sumitpo
- Start date
- Status
- 17,276
- 27,078
All values you see were accepted in a CRT with full context and input from normal and calc staff MCU moved up the thread is here but what you're saying isn't necessarily correct anymore
- 17,276
- 27,078
If you disagree you can make a CRT but these are already accepted calcs with everything accepted behind them in a CRT now with that in mind do you agree with the CRT and sorry if I sound rude but we're already kinda wrapping up here as everything including this has been accepted by staff and user's already. Ofc except the things I listed above
- 32,835
- 38,108
About this, this is actually referring to Thor being able to crack the spire itself, not Sokovia.
Which I don't have to tell you, is a massive outlier.
Also I don't remember there being proof that the vibranium amplifies energy several times beyond what it gets hit by, it only absorbs it and repels it back at full force.
And I also don't have to tell you that we don't use frag for the Sokovia feat, we use KE.
Last edited:
- 4,158
- 2,911
Did you even read what you copy pasted?
It isn't talking about Sokovia itself
- 32,835
- 38,108
Another thing, simply cracking a city wouldn't be enough to call it frag, you'd need to send the fragments flying off as well, at which point we'd switch to KE anyway because of the on-screen nature of the feat. Crack propagation is wildly unpredictable and borderline incalculable.
- 2,336
- 1,442
Could be either way, but the context makes it much more likely F.R.I.D.A.Y. was referring to the city. Tony mentioned that the spire is made from vibranium as if that is something they can exploit (if the plan is to destroy the spire, the spire being made from something as tough and wacky as vibranium doesn't help). Thor striking the smaller Captain America shield gets the energy deflected, so it is questionable Tony would think Thor striking a massively larger vibranium object would destroy it, and for F.R.I.D.A.Y. to think Thor would crack it.
Furthermore, when Novi Grad got vaporized, the spire appears to be undamaged with no visible cracks after Thor gave it his best hit.
For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions), but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.
I am skeptical of the applicability of the 7-A feats. For Jotunheim one it is the assumption that the entire super canyon was destroyed instead of just part of it; the Frost Giant king's palace was nearby and it appears mostly intact. For the Sokovia one, it is whether it is a chain-reaction and why Thor would scale to it if so.
Furthermore, when Novi Grad got vaporized, the spire appears to be undamaged with no visible cracks after Thor gave it his best hit.
For the CRT itself, I agree with the storms being environmental destruction, but this makes the 6-C scaling shaky without a High 7-A+ upscaling. The only thing supporting it is the statement that the Snap produced a power surge of 5836 Megatons (described to be of ridiculously cosmic proportions), but using this for 6-C durability scaling assumes that using all Infinity Stones requires tanking most or the full power of the surge. Tony was helmetless and had some of the energy coursing under his skin, but he just ended up being charred especially on the right side.
I am skeptical of the applicability of the 7-A feats. For Jotunheim one it is the assumption that the entire super canyon was destroyed instead of just part of it; the Frost Giant king's palace was nearby and it appears mostly intact. For the Sokovia one, it is whether it is a chain-reaction and why Thor would scale to it if so.
- 32,835
- 38,108
Doubt it, since Tony was specifically referring to the spire itself, not to Sokovia and the land-mass, and once again, cracking =/= fragging. Since it'd take someone of Thanos's caliber to actually do any meaningful irreversible damage like fragging to Vibranium.
Thor was weakened in his first confrontation with Cap due to the whole Dark Magic thing.
I should note that some parts of the spire were torn off, specifically on the top of the spire with the cogs on it, like the top cog that Spidey found in Homecoming in that Damage Control store room.
5236 megatons IIRC, the 8 looked more like a 2.
I don't see how Tony dying to this affects the Stone's durability (Since the 6-C value originates from only the first Snap and this is just for murdering half the universe's living organisms, the second Snap never has a stated value but common sense would dictate that the Stones snapping themselves away would be even more energetic), especially when we know first-hand from What If that the Stones can withstand much, much worse. Like Ultron turning universes into mush with his Stone-amped punches, tanking planetary and galactic explosions at the epicenter, and these stones are the exact same stones used in the MCU as shown in Loki, where the stones were gathered from various variant timelines and used as nothing more than mere paperweights. Even without that the Stones (And by extension, Wanda's own powers which originate from the Mind Stone) already scale well above Thanos.
That you'll have to ask Marvel FUTURE about, I only did the calc based on what he found.
Last edited:
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
Are we just ignoring that Thanos was snapping away half of the whole universe while Tony was dusting a few dozen space ships worth of enemies?
- 32,835
- 38,108
You forgot Ultron using the same exact stones with the same exact power levels to blow up planets, galaxies and punch away universes and turn them into "one, messy soup".
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
Alternate universe operating on an armor that he created with the stones that we don't know the properties of.
- 1,613
- 2,117
The Sokovia feat, as already mentioned above, was already discussed and approved in a separate CRT, both the calculation and the logic behind it. What is said in the movie makes it quite clear that they are referring to the Vibranium Spire and not the city. On top of this, what is seen in that scene is the bottom part of the spire, the part that wasn't hit by Thor's attack.
This was already adressed above. On top of the 5.2 gigatons that is clearly shown in the movie, there are multiple supporting feats, with the one that was talked before being Thor destroying the Bifrost bridge in single hit. And then there is the Vibranium feats too, like Thanos destroy Cap's shield and such.
A later scene should prove the validity of the feat.
- 32,835
- 38,108
Holy ****, that is... bigger than I expected.A later scene should prove the validity of the feat.
- 17,276
- 27,078
Ngl ShadowWhoWalks this is kinda derailing , the validity of the feats and calc's have already been proved(this goes for the 7-A and 6-C) so once again if u have issue with them then make a CRT but don't derail this one we've no reason to reprove these to you when we've already linked you to the CRTs prior and explained why they work you already have this information so I see no point in you arguing around it and ignoring info a simple I agree or disagree with this CRT would suffice since you're not brining any new arguements and everything's been proven already with an numerous pieces of evidence already and on top of that many people have corrected you already so it'd just redundant to be circular and continue this.
- 32,835
- 38,108
Relax fam, no need to get this heated.
- 17,276
- 27,078
Oh no I'm relaxed and I'm not heated at all I'm simply just keeping it real about this
- 17,276
- 27,078
Nor do I. I provided the link to the other CRT where the questioned feat was accepted after all so that he can read over and look for himself. Imo it just gets weird when you have that info that also links to Calc Blogs and other CRTs fully explaining said feats and are getting explainers from multiple people in different ways explaining all aspects of said feats and still aren't understanding or getting the details. But that's just me if it seems like I wasn't chill that's on me and I apologize,
- 32,835
- 38,108
Well, so far we alleviated the Jotunheim feat concerns and the Sokovia feat concerns. And possibly the Stones as well.
Makes me actually think, would it actually make a difference if we just used the low-end of the Earthquake yield that I calculated instead of using the ice frag one? A crack of that magnitude would definitely be Magnitude 9 levels of destruction. Even on a small planet. There's also that they're the same exact value (Minus the differences in decimals). There's no denying that those cracks are definitely the same ones Thor did, given that the Bifrost beams land literally near the palace and that it's pretty much the same spot where Thor just slammed the ice with his hammer.
Makes me actually think, would it actually make a difference if we just used the low-end of the Earthquake yield that I calculated instead of using the ice frag one? A crack of that magnitude would definitely be Magnitude 9 levels of destruction. Even on a small planet. There's also that they're the same exact value (Minus the differences in decimals). There's no denying that those cracks are definitely the same ones Thor did, given that the Bifrost beams land literally near the palace and that it's pretty much the same spot where Thor just slammed the ice with his hammer.
Last edited:
- 1,613
- 2,117
Yeah, when The_one_you_least_expect shared the image I was surprised at how big it looks from above. That's 7-A at the very least.
- 2,336
- 1,442
Though it doesn't appear to be bent or deformed even after being directly hit, so it could simply be dissembled.
It is not about the Infinity Stone's durability; more about the backlash on the user from using all Stones not being as powerful as their combined effect.
Actually the surge from destroying the stones is stated to be similar to the first Snap:
| ROCKET: When Thanos snapped his fingers, Earth became ground zero for a power surge of ridiculously cosmic proportions. No one's ever seen anything like it... Until two days ago. On this planet. NEBULA: Thanos is there. NATASHA ROMANOFF: He used the stones again. |
The Stones appear to be significantly more durable than Thanos:
Though does anyone really scale to the durability of the Stones? Even Wanda destroying the Mind Stone was exploiting a weakness (being empowered by the same stone and having similar energy signature) rather than pure raw power:
| Vision: I think if it were exposed to a sufficiently powerful energy source... something very similar to its own signature, perhaps... its molecular integrity could fail. |
It also got approved for a long time and then disapproved for a long time. To maintain stability we should cover all bases.
What gets cracked is a tangential point. What matters is:
- Is this a chain-reaction feat?
Did someone figure a way to measure the durability of the Bifrost bridge and vibranium?
Early Thor destroyed the Rainbow Bridge in ten hits. From what I understand, it is possible to interpret the Rainbow Bridge to be Tier 5 or 6 due to being able to channeling the Bifrost's planet destroying energy, but early Thor destroyed it so it sounds really unreasonable to go for that interpretation.
In the first wide shot of the planet, we didn't get a clear look at the right side, but parts of the planet was already fragmenting on its own (properly due to the Casket of Ancient Winters being looted).A later scene should prove the validity of the feat.
But if we say that Early Thor destroyed all that chunk of the planet, then that sounds a lot bigger than Tier 7.
I searched prior; if I found that my exact main points were already discussed I wouldn't have brought them up. Having two simultaneous CRTs arguing for different scalings is inefficient and confusing, and this is far from the first time specific calcs are given more scrutiny in scaling threads; not all approved calcs necessarily get used in a scaling by the way.
Agreeing and Disagreeing should be accompanied with reasons, which might spark discussions (fruitful ones I hope).
- 32,835
- 38,108
The Stones already scale way higher than that 5.2 gigaton energy surge.Though it doesn't appear to be bent or deformed even after being directly hit, so it could simply be dissembled.
It is not about the Infinity Stone's durability; more about the backlash on the user from using all Stones not being as powerful as their combined effect.
Actually the surge from destroying the stones is stated to be similar to the first Snap:
ROCKET: When Thanos snapped his fingers, Earth became ground zero for a power surge of ridiculously cosmic proportions. No one's ever seen anything like it... Until two days ago. On this planet.
NEBULA: Thanos is there.
NATASHA ROMANOFF: He used the stones again.
The Stones appear to be significantly more durable than Thanos:
Though does anyone really scale to the durability of the Stones?
I'm looking at this as a case involving both raw power and being of a similar energy signature based on Vision's statement.
That's not at all what Tony implies. He was referring to the entire spire itself, regardless of where Thor hit it, he didn't even mention where Thor would have to hit it.
I find it quite hard to believe this to be a chain reaction feat, given that vibranium can only absorb the kinetic energy and then expel it all at its original yield.
The Bifrost Bridge is an easy one to assume. Pre-Awakening Thor took ten hits with his hammer, Awakened Thor casually blew up the section with his bare hands. Awakened Thor is thus 10x stronger.
Vibranium basically scales to Thanos whacking it with his Helicopter blade so draw whatever conclusions you wanna draw from that.
Also, the Bifrost wasn't going to one-shot the planet instantly, it was going to destroy the planet over a period of time.
Here's the thing, we don't know the size of Jotunheim, that could greatly influence the result.
Plus, there's always the new curvature formula, but then there's the problem of the cracks being curved and the depth of those cracks being shown to be even deeper there (So much so that I don't think we could reliably get any measurements for that). Not only that, the new cracks in the Bifrost Scene look considerably more severe than what we were shown in the earlier scenes where they were just landscaping effects, instead of a massive gaping hole on the face of the planet itself.
The novel does mention Thor shaking the planet with his hammer strike, but again, we don't know the planet's exact size (It could be the size of Pluto or it could be the size of Earth), and we don't know how much of the earthquake the people there could feel, which would also greatly influence the result.
Last edited:
- 39,668
- 15,591
I just wanna say, despite Strange would be High 7-A, most of his abilities are dura negation so i think this is perfectly balanced
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
Strange won't be getting an upgrade from this.
By the way, I proposed changing the AP of Strange and the other masters of the mystic arts to Unknown. Should we apply that, or should I make a separate CRT for that?
- 17,276
- 27,078
Only for their AP right?
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
Yeah. The rest of their profiles would stay the same.
- 17,276
- 27,078
Okay that's sensible so for example it'd be "Wall level physically and Unknown with Magic"?
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
Yes, that's how their AP sections would look.
Their dura would all stay the same since their shields can block the sanctuary II blasts. Hell even random sorcerer's shields could block those.
Their dura would all stay the same since their shields can block the sanctuary II blasts. Hell even random sorcerer's shields could block those.
- 39,668
- 15,591
Well, even if their AP are listed as unknown, they can haxed you and ignore any defense you have
Anyway, unknown tier is the best for now
Anyway, unknown tier is the best for now
- 25,017
- 27,011
- Thread starter
- #270
Why does Strange even have a infinity war key? Is he ever stated to get stronger?
Anyway, for sorcerers, it's Unknown AP for Magic and 7-B+ dura for shields
Anyway, for sorcerers, it's Unknown AP for Magic and 7-B+ dura for shields
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
- 6,044
His magic proficiency has visible improved significantly from Doctor Strange 1 to Thor Rag. His abilities need to be split into tabbers because some of the stuff he has on that profile wasn't shown until Thor Rag and later.
- 4,158
- 2,911
Yes in infinity War commentary "Doctor Strange is one of Avengers: Infinity War's best characters and the Russos pushed his powers further than we've ever seen before. According to Joe Russo, this is by design as the additional few years between this appearance and his solo movie allowed him to master his abilities. This was on display in Thor: Ragnarok briefly, but Strange gets to conjure up even more magic here. Given the level of power he now possesses and controls, Joe says he's one of the most powerful characters the MCU has to offer. One could say Doctor Strange is finally the Master of the Mystic Arts." https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-director-commentary-reveals/amp/
- 25,017
- 27,011
- Thread starter
- #273
I guess we just need a mod to approve the new stuff?
The Iron Man composite draft will just be placed in another thread as that will take a while.
The Iron Man composite draft will just be placed in another thread as that will take a while.
- 39,668
- 15,591
- 25,017
- 27,011
- Thread starter
- #276
They have. I can be the one who applies the changes. I need pages unlocked for:
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
Iron Man (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Anthony Edward "Tony" Stark is an eccentric self-described genius, billionaire, playboy and philanthropist, and the former head of Stark Industries. Using his own great wealth and exceptional technical knowledge, Stark enjoyed the playboy lifestyle for many years until he was kidnapped by the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Thor (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Thor Odinson is the God of Thunder, prince of Asgard and a former member of the Avengers. When his irresponsible behavior threatened his homeland, he was stripped of his power and banished by his father Odin to Earth. While exiled on Earth, Thor learned humility, found love in Jane Foster, and...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Captain America (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
I can do this all day.Captain America's catchphrase Captain Steven Grant "Steve" Rogers is a World War II veteran, a founding member of the Avengers, and Earth's first super soldier. Rogers had suffered from numerous health problems, and upon America's entry into World War II, was rejected from...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Vision (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Vision is a powerful, synthetic being born from a Vibranium-laced body created by Ultron and Helen Cho, programmed by Tony Stark and Bruce Banner using J.A.R.V.I.S.-based codes, and activated by the Mind Stone that was hidden inside the Chitauri Scepter. Originally conceived as the perfect form...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Scarlet Witch (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Wanda Maximoff is a native of the Eastern European country of Sokovia who grew up with her twin brother, Pietro. In an effort to help purge their country of strife, the twins agreed to undergo experiments with the Scepter under the supervision of HYDRA. They achieved superpowers as a result...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Doctor Strange (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Doctor Strange (real name Stephen Vincent Strange) is the main protagonist of the 2016 film Doctor Strange. Originally a very accomplished yet arrogant neurosurgeon, Strange suffered severe nerve damage to his hands in a car accident, rendering him incapable of continuing his work. When all...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Black Panther (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
T'Challa, also known by the moniker of Black Panther, is the protector of the nation of Wakanda. Following the untimely death of his father T'Chaka, he inherited his father's position as king. In his rush to avenge his father, he became involved in the internal conflict among the Avengers...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Thanos (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Thanos, referred to as the Dark Lord by his most loyal underlings and the Mad Titan by the galactic community, is a powerful Titan warlord who rules over a distant region of space and commands two massive armies, known as the Chitauri and the Outriders, and a small group of followers known as...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Ultron (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Ultron is the titular main antagonist of the 2015 epic Marvel superhero sequel hit, Avengers: Age of Ultron. He is a self-teaching, self-aware artificial intelligence dormant peacekeeping program created by Tony Stark. Possessing an eight-foot-tall advanced robotic body, Ultron was created by...
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 25,017
- 27,011
- Thread starter
- #278
Removing At most for his claws
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,640
- 10,804
They are all unlocked. Please notify me here when you're done and don't forget to link this thread as justification for your edits.
- 12,304
- 11,259
A thousand pardons, I forgot to say I agree with the new proposals.
- Status
Similar threads
