MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

[Naeem0304]

One thing is that if MCU main earth claims they are Earth 616, and Marvel Comics main earth is also 616, how can they have same earth number?

MCU-616 refers to the Sacred Timeline, not specifically the Earth shown in the films (for instance, when Victory Timely was introduced in Season 2, it said "Sacred Timeline", however, after Miss Minutes intervened and gave him the TVA handbook, it later said "Alternate Timeline.")

Given how the TVA's damage control department and Mobius could monitor and even send/remove Gwen Stacy from Comics-616, it likely means that comics-616 is in the Sacred Timeline.

 

[Naeem0304]

Found some more scans...

 

[RoTt35]

Btw where do Byrdie and Goddess of Thunder Storm scale? I know Byrdie is bare minimum >>>>>> Thanos (and maybe even Zeus level) while Storm should at least scale to Pre-Awakening Thor, but is there anything that comfortably puts the two any higher?

I don't know about Storm's physical stats but I guess she would be Low 1-C via Absorption since by gathering the strength and magic of the Gods of Asgard across the Multiverse she was able to destroy a five-dimensional shard

 

[Dinobot1996]

Btw where do Byrdie and Goddess of Thunder Storm scale? I know Byrdie is bare minimum >>>>>> Thanos (and maybe even Zeus level) while Storm should at least scale to Pre-Awakening Thor, but is there anything that comfortably puts the two any higher?

I'm not sure that there's anything that would give them concrete scaling beyond that. They helped fight the Champion of HYDRA, but even a base Captain Carter could damage it as far back as season 1 despite it being stated to be a universe eater. They also knocked around Infinity Ultron until he resorted to using the Time Stone, but he didn't even want to fight them.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I don't know about Storm's physical stats but I guess she would be Low 1-C via Absorption since by gathering the strength and magic of the Gods of Asgard across the Multiverse she was able to destroy a five-dimensional shard

We're not getting into the implications that the Gods would technically backscale.

Found some more scans...

By all means send the scans

 

[Naeem0304]

1. So the TVA could not only monitor both Earth-65 and 616, but also create timedoor in those dimensions too.

"So, that doodad just takes you wherever you wanna go?"
"Within time and space, yeah."

(About timedoors from Loki Season 2, according to OB)

 

[Naeem0304]

So, here's some more evidence that the TVA can freely time travel and monitor comics-616.

 

[RoTt35]

We're not getting into the implications that the Gods would technically backscale.

Obviously not, she had to use the power of uncountable infinite gods across the Multiverse to destroy the shard

 

[Naeem0304]

Honestly, I think this stance is fair (please share opinions on this):

So we're aware of the fact that the TVA has shown the ability to travel to Earth-65 and 616 via timedoors. But there's a kicker. And shoutouts to @ThanatosX 's (MCU Cosmology Upgrade - It's about Time thread)

The sub has already accepted that thread, and the real kicker is from here (again, credits to @ThanatosX for the following):

Than, we have OB saying that it’s impossible to Time Slip in the TVA (once again, Season 2, Episode 1, 23 minutes mark). However, he never says that this is impossible because a time axis doesn’t exist, and in fact he later corrects himself when he is proven wrong the moment that he realizes that Loki’s changes to the past actually affected the present too, clearly saying that it makes sense and that time travelling the TVA is actually possible.

And lastly, OB statement that Loki’s time travelled to a place with no time (Season 2, Episode 5, 13:50 mark). This is indeed correct … but we need to look at the context of this statement too. This was said immediately after the TVA was completely destroyed by the destruction of the Temporal Loom, which destroyed the time axis of the TVA too (more on that in the second section, more specifically on the part regarding the Temporal Loom), so in that moment the TVA had no time since the time it had was erased alongside everything else. And Loki did time travel to the TVA after it was destroyed at the beginning of episode 5, before anyone asks when he did so. This is also supported by his statement immediately after that he would be travelling to a place that no longer exists. Considering that OB knows that Loki can time travel, he could easily tell him that he needs to travel to before the destruction happened, instead he tells him that the TVA no longer existed, basically saying that, in a normal situation, even time travelling wouldn’t change anything since time in there no longer exists. In fact, rewatching that part, Loki specifically says that he needs to go back in time to before the destruction of the Temporal Loom and he says that he can’t because that place doesn’t exists anymore, further proving that time was destroyed in the explosion too. As we know, Loki does it anyway, but this is because his Time Travel is broken as I will talk about later on.

• Loki was able to time travel to a place that had it's time destroyed, however, it was proven that the TVA had no means to do this at all.

Loki’s Time Powers: he was shown several time to be able to easily alter the time dimension of the Void at the End of Time, stopping it’s time with just a movement of his hand and repeatedly traveling throught it’s time axis to go back in time. So, every ability he have with the Time Slipping and in general his Time Powers should scale to 6-D.

If he was able to manipulate time on a higher level than the TVA (who can travel to comics-616) doesn't this confirm two things?

1. Loki's time power should irrefutably be 1-A since he's proven to have higher control over space-time than the TVA.
2. This proves the comics-universe is no different of a space-time than any other dimension the TVA is monitoring. Hell, the comics featuring OB and Gwen Stacy came out a year and a half after Loki Season 2 ended, so OB could've said something like "This 616 universe is impossible for the TVA to send you to", but he didn't; in fact, they easily accommodated for Gwen's trip to comics-616.

 

[Reyne]

So, there was talk about Vision's diluted vibranium being inferior to pure vibranium at the tail end of the 5A thread, but I don't believe that's the case. Simply put, Jabari wood is wood "saturated" in vibranium dust that is as "powerful" as the metal when burned. Vision's cells are a mix of organic tissue and vibranium, which is basically the same thing. The organic aspect of him isn't relevant enough when someone like Riri needs to deactivate him.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything for scaling, as something like Zombies Vision could've decreased the density of his head while increasing the density of his hand (conjecture)

1602 is Sacred Timeline applicable? Zombies is feeling left out. If Hulk survived his fight with Wanda, it feels like a peak rage upgrade.

 

[Raincutter]

So, there was talk about Vision's diluted vibranium being inferior to pure vibranium at the tail end of the 5A thread, but I don't believe that's the case. Simply put, Jabari wood is wood "saturated" in vibranium dust that is as "powerful" as the metal when burned. Vision's cells are a mix of organic tissue and vibranium, which is basically the same thing. The organic aspect of him isn't relevant enough when someone like Riri needs to deactivate him.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything for scaling, as something like Zombies Vision could've decreased the density of his head while increasing the density of his hand (conjecture)

1602 is Sacred Timeline applicable? Zombies is feeling left out. If Hulk survived his fight with Wanda, it feels like a peak rage upgrade.

Yeah and Ultron considered Vision his final form as further evidence.

I think Hulk managed to break her shield and put her on the backfoot in their brief fight

 

[sasuke431]

One thing is that if MCU main earth claims they are Earth 616, and Marvel Comics main earth is also 616, how can they have same earth number?

Because, D&W Artbook confirms that MCU is not 616
it just Earth-199999

Actually, according to D&W's deleted scenes, they presumably as an unknowing alignment of this reality to a self-contained "Sacred Timeline"
In short, Earth-199999 was called 616 because the “main reality” was assumed to be the MCU's main timeline (Earth-199999).

This is similar to how Peter B. Parker's home reality was labeled “E-616” on the Kingpin's dimension shifter, but was properly labeled “616B” on the dimension travel watch, maybe TVA Comics will have an explanation for this later.

later works, including the D&W artbooks, always list the comics as 616 when referring to “Comics 616” and the main MCU timeline together, and only list the main MCU as the “Sacred Timeline” in contrast to the comics' 616.

 

[darkphantom9805]

So what’s the progress on the comic crt ?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Ghengiroo115/sandbox sanic movies

vsbattles.fandom.com

I started a sandbox for Byrdie (hopefully nobody beat me to the punch there), and was mainly wondering if people feel the AP for her base form is reasonable or not. HYDRA Champion supposedly being a "universe eater" is iffy and Byrdie having the power to become a vessel for Dormammu seemed vague, so I didn't consider either of them for the tiering.

Also don't mind the sandbox name, I repurposed a different one I made but never ended up needing

 

[Naeem0304]

So what’s the progress on the comic crt ?

At this point, I'm just waiting for a consensus. Check out the previous comments I posted on this thread at your own leisure, as it adds more ample evidence to the CRT. If you have any opinions or your own evidence they would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

At this point, I'm just waiting for a consensus. Check out the previous comments I posted on this thread at your own leisure, as it adds more ample evidence to the CRT. If you have any opinions or your own evidence they would be greatly appreciated.

I thought you were waiting something else. Just make the CRT with everything you have and lets see what happens.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Have we gathered enough evidence for it to have a chance of getting accepted? And we also have to have a goal of what the crt is trying to accomplish who or what would be getting changed from this crt

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Have we gathered enough evidence for it to have a chance of getting accepted?

If it doesn't get accepted with all this then it won't be accepted regardless.

 

[Naeem0304]

Yeah, that's why I want to know if the presented evidence is 'enough' before a CRT is created.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Yeah, that's why I want to know if the presented evidence is 'enough' before a CRT is created.

Well is there any more evidence that can be found ? Or has everything been said

 

[Naeem0304]

Okay, some more stuff. The Marvel Website says this about the TVA comic:

FOR ALL TIMES, ALWAYS! The Time Variance Authority has long watched over the timeline, protecting it from dangerous variations that could cause the end of EVERYTHING. Now, as the organization begins to expand its tolerance of variants, it's enlisted some new recruits from timelines that have been wiped from existence: Captain Peggy Carter, Super-Soldier of her world; Gambit, despondent and aimless from the loss of his lady love; and…this can't be right…Spider-Gwen?!? Has her world been destroyed?!? Writer Katharyn Blair (LOKI Season Two) and artist Pere Pérez (CARNAGE, SPIDER-WOMAN) bring a touch of cinematic flair to the bureaucracy at the end of time!

• Earth-65 is a timeline.

---

his December, behold the adventures of the agency tasked with upholding the timestream in TVA! Just announced by Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige and Marvel Comics Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski at the Marvel Fanfare Panel at San Diego Comic-Con, TVA will be a five-issue limited comic book series written by Marvel Studios’ Loki writer Katharyn Blair and drawn by acclaimed Marvel artist Pere Perez (CARNAGE, EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE).

The series will represent an evolution for the Marvel Comics’ version of the TVA as it is blended with its Marvel Cinematic Universe counterpart, as depicted in the Disney+ series Loki and Deadpool & Wolverine. The series will mark the Marvel Comics debut of various MCU characters, including breakout Loki star Miss Minutes.

The mysterious all-knowing entity who keeps the TVA ticking like clockwork will recruit a new band of heroes charged with monitoring and regulating all realities and timelines. Join Ghost-Spider and other universe-displaced entities including Captain Carter, a heartbroken Remy LeBeau, and more as they’re sent throughout the Multiverse on vital missions to repair wild temporal anomalies and keep reality itself from shattering!

“I love this idea,” shared Feige. “It’s just as cool for us to see our work in comics as it is to bring the work of comic book creators to the big screen.”
Check out the newly revamped TVA on superstar artist Pepe Larraz’s cover and stay tuned for news about the series in the months ahead!

• This part "The series will represent an evolution for the Marvel Comics’ version of the TVA as it is blended with its Marvel Cinematic Universe counterpart" pretty much just states that the original comics version of the TVA is blended with it's MCU counterpart.

Furthermore:

The Time Variance Authority (TVA) acts as the judge, jury, and executioner behind any temporal anomalies in the multiverse. A bureaucratic agency, their primary function is to monitor and regulate all realities and timelines. They are based in the Null-Time Zone dimension.

• The TVA Vol #1 states that the TVA is within the "Null-Time Zone".

---

Unlike the other characters in this list, Kahhori is not just inspired by her silver screen counterpart; she actually is the same character from Marvel Animations’ What If…? series. After the destruction of Asgard in a distant reality, the Space Stone crashed onto Earth and created a portal in the Forbidden Lake in the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. While evading Spanish conquistadors, Kahhori fell into the lake and traveled to Sky World, a dimension where the Infinity Stone’s power flowed through its inhabitants. Through exposure to the Space Stone, Kahhori wielded cosmic power, gaining numerous physical abilities including super-strength, super-speed, and enhanced agility. With her new powers, Kahhori protects the Mohawk people in Sky World and back home on Earth. Now, Kahhori travels the Multiverse to the main Marvel Universe in the comics, where she finds herself stranded in Hell’s Kitchen.

• "Same character from Marvel Animations' What If... series" and "travels the Multiverse to the main marvel Universe in the comics."

 

[Naeem0304]

I'll be posting the CRT in an hour.

 

[Naeem0304]

Thread '[MCU] Canon to the Comics/High 1-B Meta. Massively controversial topic'

Wednesday at 18:33

Canon crossover evidence
MCU

This December, behold the adventures of the agency tasked with upholding the timestream in TVA! Just announced by Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige and Marvel Comics Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski at the Marvel Fanfare Panel at San Diego Comic-Con, TVA will be a five-issue limited comic book series written by Marvel Studios’ Loki writer Katharyn Blair and drawn by acclaimed Marvel artist Pere Perez (CARNAGE, EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE).

The series will represent an...

• Naeem0304
• marvel marvel cinematic universe marvel cinematic universe cosmology marvel comics marvel comics cosmology (world hierarchy) mcu
• Replies: 73
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

CRT is up.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Fun fact: the Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU book confirms that Odin was the original wielder of Mjolnir, and that Hela only used it "briefly".

 

[darkphantom9805]

Mcu is going to be very dry for a long time especially in terms of feats

 

[sasuke431]

What’s the argument around scaling the characters? If I can get a summary, I’ll check on it.

Post in thread 'MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread'

Sunday at 08:11

In this post, I'll compile news about the MCU and comic book crossovers


At 11:40 Katharyn Blair (Loki Season Two co-writer) specifically says that it was an exec at Marvel who had an idea to do a TVA comic, but that it was Jordan D. White, Marvel Comics editor who listened to her pitch and let her run with it.

I love this idea,” shared Feige. “It’s just as cool for us to see our work in comics as it is to bring the work of comic book creators to the big screen.

The Marvel.com article also specifically mentions that Feige approved the...

• sasuke431

• 

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Mcu is going to be very dry for a long time especially in terms of feats

Well until february (I think?) for Brave New World at least. Unless we find some other stuffs by exploring guides, artbooks and so on

 

[darkphantom9805]

Well until february (I think?) for Brave New World at least. Unless we find some other stuffs by exploring guides, artbooks and so on

Brave new world has nothing unless red hulk shatters cap shield it will be a mainly grounded movie and red hulk apparently gets no screen time anyway so mid movie

 

[darkphantom9805]

Wait I just realized we never got to see what happens with the celestial that were next to the watcher did the writers just forget they exist

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

On a side note...

Spoiler: Another long rant about a character I like still getting cucked plus musings

The MCU continue to do Quicksilver dirty (this year will mark a decade of cucking) and all because Fox got to show him off first in X-Men: Days of Future Past and the Mouse wasn't too happy about it (due to the script of DoFP being changed to include Quicksilver after he and his sister were teased at the end of Captain America: Winter Soldier).

•The list of pain (for those who need reminding);

*Killed him off in Age of Ultron and then his sister moved on to get more emotionally attached to an android and made up children then her own brother she grew up with.
*Brought the actor of Fox Quicksilver into the MCU just to subvert expectations for a bait and switch erection joke in WandaVision (Evan Peters legit thought he'll be playing MCU Quicksilver until he arrived on set).
*In MoM, Wanda wanted to find an universe to live with her made up kids yet not one where her brother (or parents) are still alive, I guess the Darkhold corruption is pretty selective huh?
*The actor for MCU Quicksilver got recast to be Kraven the Hunter in the SSCU and the movie flopped (Aaron was so good in Kick-Ass too and is actually a comic book fan irl, shame he's being getting awful scripts).
*Quicksilver got cucked by What if...? yet a variant of his sister (Zombie Wanda) got to appear in multiple episodes plus we got an entirely new OC speedster with Kahhori but in her defence her powers are more like The Runner.

Also on a side note, notice how both Scarlet Witch and Magneto are in the base roster of Marvel Rivals yet Quicksilver is absent?

Literally the only time Quicksilver got any proper shine in recent Marvel media was as a Morph cameo in X-Men 97.

What if... What if...? was actually creative, fun and exciting with it's alternative scenarios while still being true to the MCU ethos established in Avengers Assemble and expanded in Infinity War?

Instead of forcing Captain Carter to be the lead role and popluar, using scenarios that border on fanfiction (who asked to go back to the Party Thor universe for duckality that leads to another OC?) and now causing some very questionable ethical repercussions with the new order of Watchers being able to interfere with the multiverse to make things "better" in their eyes while flying in the face of the freewill Loki wanted to give everyone, what's the point of choice if some cosmic 5D beings will "correct" or "save" you if go down the "wrong" path? (As long as they consider "good"). If they're beyond our mortal understanding of morality why do they interfere and get involved with 3D beings? How do they decide who lives (Riri) and dies(Tony)?, It's like Endgame Steve all over again (who choose to live a happy and simple life via time travel with Peggy while knowingly letting numerous conflicts, wars, atrocities, etc to play out exactly the same as the original timeline) but incomprehensively worse.

Tl;dr: A new year, another year of THE Marvel speedster getting shafted in the MCU. I won't be surprised if his (sometimes) nephew replaces him in Young Avengers and I'm glad What if...? is over now but disappointed by the colossal amount of wasted potential (the outro with all the crazy yet epic scenarios like Mastro Supreme was just insulting imo).

 

[Hellbeast]

Bro it’s insane they teased shit like a Deadpool variant or Samurai Ghost Rider and we got the duck episode

Hell even Surtur invading Earth is way cooler

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bro it’s insane they teased shit like a Deadpool variant or Samurai Ghost Rider and we got the duck episode

Hell even Surtur invading Earth is way cooler

I'd rather have the Duck episode than the cowboy or Red Guardian one

 

[ArkhamDC06]

So basically Surtr would have slaughtered nearly everyone and was so powerful frickin Wanda could have only sealed him and even then it would have taken Hulk getting a mega upgrade to truly defeat him....

Why exactly was this scrapped again?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Wait I just realized we never got to see what happens with the celestial that were next to the watcher did the writers just forget they exist

Probably

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

So basically Surtr would have slaughtered nearly everyone and was so powerful frickin Wanda could have only sealed him and even then it would have taken Hulk getting a mega upgrade to truly defeat him....

Why exactly was this scrapped again?

Probably because it sounds boring. Like, haven't we already had a few episodes like that?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

What if?...went from a not perfect but really cool series with an excellent concept and great ideas for (indeed) infinite possibilities in its first season to "Captain Carter & Friends: Across the Multiverse". This has to be one of the biggest let down I've seen recently (still not on par with Joker 2 but still)

I mean, think about all the cool concepts we could have gotten! The possibilities are just too many (just to give a FEW examples):

• More Eternals & Celestials
• Thanos snapping the other half
• Villains like Red Skull winning (for real)
• Different characters get Infinity Stones different from the one they normally have (like Red Skull with the Reality Stone)
• HYDRA-aligned heroes like Steve Rogers or Tony
• Evil/Tyrant Thor
• Bunch of characters from the comics who don't appear in the movies like other Eternals such as Zuras, Sphinx, Crimson Dynamo, etc
• More episodes set in different eras, like Prehistory (Ice Age, Mesolithic, Neolithic, etc), Ancient Greece/Rome/Egypt, Pirates, Victorian London, etc
• Wakanda allying with Talokan against the surface
• Variants meeting and teaming up or fighting each other
• Tony Stark or Hulk as a Master of the Mystic Arts
• Ego winning with some survivors escaping
• Mysterio being an actual hero or at least a sorcerer
• Apocalyptic Future a la Old Man Logan or Maestro Hulk
• Shang-Chi siding with Wenwu and becoming his successor as the Mandarin (or Wenwu listening to his children unlike the movie)

There, I got these in some seconds, was that so difficult for a PROFESSIONAL WRITER to get something like that when a random prick like me can do that?!

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Probably because it sounds boring. Like, haven't we already had a few episodes like that?

Sounds far more epic than nearly everything post season 1

 

[Raincutter]

What if?...went from a not perfect but really cool series with an excellent concept and great ideas for (indeed) infinite possibilities in its first season to "Captain Carter & Friends: Across the Multiverse". This has to be one of the biggest let down I've seen recently (still not on par with Joker 2 but still)

I mean, think about all the cool concepts we could have gotten! The possibilities are just too many (just to give a FEW examples):

• More Eternals & Celestials
• Thanos snapping the other half
• Villains like Red Skull winning (for real)
• Different characters get Infinity Stones different from the one they normally have (like Red Skull with the Reality Stone)
• HYDRA-aligned heroes like Steve Rogers or Tony
• Evil/Tyrant Thor
• Bunch of characters from the comics who don't appear in the movies like other Eternals such as Zuras, Sphinx, Crimson Dynamo, etc
• More episodes set in different eras, like Prehistory (Ice Age, Mesolithic, Neolithic, etc), Ancient Greece/Rome/Egypt, Pirates, Victorian London, etc
• Wakanda allying with Talokan against the surface
• Variants meeting and teaming up or fighting each other
• Tony Stark or Hulk as a Master of the Mystic Arts
• Ego winning with some survivors escaping
• Mysterio being an actual hero or at least a sorcerer
• Apocalyptic Future a la Old Man Logan or Maestro Hulk
• Shang-Chi siding with Wenwu and becoming his successor as the Mandarin (or Wenwu listening to his children unlike the movie)

There, I got these in some seconds, was that so difficult for a PROFESSIONAL WRITER to get something like that when a random prick like me can do that?!

Nah what people really wanna see is Agatha in Hollywood.

 

[FentyBeauty]

I mean, think about all the cool concepts we could have gotten! The possibilities are just too many (just to give a FEW examples):

• More Eternals & Celestials

it would be cool if they made a what if about thanos joining the eternals and fighting alongside them since we got eros and thanos interacting in the VR what if game

• Evil/Tyrant Thor

i have an idea for that

like what if odin banished thor to the dark dimension instead of earth and it could be abt him becoming one of dormammu’s zealots and learning dark dimension magic to get revenge on odin

i also would like to see a what if about the maximoff twins going to kamar taj instead of hydra and that could lead to wanda learning more about her chaos magic there + pietro being a sorcerer and also getting the boots of valtorr that mordo uses as a reference to his super-speed