Devil May Cry - About PoC

[Serlock_Holmes]

we know they still stand in the lore, because the reasons they're removed from the game have got nothing to do with the lore

No we don't you think they do, but matter of the fact is they are nowhere to be found, because if they were wouldn't be having this conversation. So stuff got removed for another reason and were never included again in any way or form.

they werent "cancelled". they were old content that WERE in the OFFICIAL release of the game.

That was cancelled and rebuild. The term cancel fits very well here because the game went through drastic changes and stuff more than what's considered normal changed.

cool and im arguing that is meaningless if the reason they're removed got nothing to do with the lore. why should something removed for technical reasons be excluded from the lore? thats not them being scrapped from the narrative, thats them being removed from the game to make way for the new update.

Because they are not in the narrative, so they are not in the lore. You have no proof they are except deleted comment. That's all there is to support them. No nod to that. If there was something to support them no problem, but there isn't anything to prop them up.

being skeptical due to how "important" the statement is in this context is biased. we dont decide what stuff is canon for how "important" it is in the lore.
and remember the devs dont see stuff how we in the vs communities see it, to them these are just regular statements about the lore.

The devs nuked the stuff out of existence. Someone who plays the game now literally wouldn't know this so I'm really skeptical about whether the devs really wanted to include them that much. Feels weird not putting a 5 sentence paragraph if they wanted to keep it in the lore.
It's not biased because agreeing to keep a random demon that is never referenced again is way less important in keeping a statement that basically upgrades the verse. Keeping one is barely worth a look, while keeping the other is basically using now nonexistent content to upgrade the whole verse.

False. the event that contained the specific soul statement you're talking about ended. the "event" in this case is the challenge itself. the gamemode changes weekly & the challenges in it are a timed thing. each have their own bosses & levels.

And only one of them had that statement? If it ended normally and was not scrapped, while I still have my disagreements for not keeping such an important statement in the main story I do understand why people would choose to keep it.

 

[Lonkitt]

Here goes nothing (Third tag attempt):

@Executor_N0 @Theglassman12 @Emirp sumitpo @KingTempest @Lonkitt @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus

This is definitely my fault, but I still don't know the main sides of each argument

 

[Sevil Natas]

No we don't you think they do, but matter of the fact is they are nowhere to be found, because if they were wouldn't be having this conversation. So stuff got removed for another reason and were never included again in any way or form.

we have records of them existing. and we're sure they were there. they're still in the lore. just not in the game. another example of this that is not PoC:
the LoL star guardian event had it's whole story written in the games client. after the event ended. that was removed in it's entirety.
everyone in the LoL lore community universally agree's the event is still canonical
because it was removed from the game. but not the lore. or the narrative.

That was cancelled and rebuild. The term cancel fits very well here because the game went through drastic changes and stuff more than what's considered normal changed.

by that logic. the star guardian event i mentioned earlier would fit this term. it's story was removed, and replaced with something else. yet nobody says it was cancelled. they all would say the event ended. the gamemodes in 1.0 were also removed & replaced with something else. they were never cancelled. they just ended.

Because they are not in the narrative, so they are not in the lore. You have no proof they are except deleted comment. That's all there is to support them. No nod to that. If there was something to support them no problem, but there isn't anything to prop them up.

being in the narrative =/= being in the game. we have records of them. so we know they exist. if you take a book. and remove a single page from all it's copies across the world. would that page be removed from the narrative of the author or his vision? ofc not. you're equating 2 very different things here

The devs nuked the stuff out of existence. Someone who plays the game now literally wouldn't know this so I'm really skeptical about whether the devs really wanted to include them that much. Feels weird not putting a 5 sentence paragraph if they wanted to keep it in the lore.

they didnt remove the statements specifically. they removed the modes containing them.
and they dont have to include them again, they already did once.

It's not biased because agreeing to keep a random demon that is never referenced again is way less important in keeping a statement that basically upgrades the verse. Keeping one is barely worth a look, while keeping the other is basically using now nonexistent content to upgrade the whole verse.

it is. that random demon & the statement that upgrades the verse should be held to the same standards in regards to canonicity. because canonicity is absolute.
we cant let 1 go if the other is staying.

And only one of them had that statement? If it ended normally and was not scrapped, while I still have my disagreements for not keeping such an important statement in the main story I do understand why people would choose to keep it.

we only seen & recorded it once. so probably.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is definitely my fault, but I still don't know the main sides of each argument

There hasn't really been any argument. What this thread aims to do is to establish a precedent in regards to our canon standards and the usage of "deleted content" and when it's applicable to a verse.

Our standards, unfortunately, doesn't have anything of this specificity, but it does provide us with at least a baseline: The content to be accepted as canon needs to be referenced and not contradict the source material/base game.

But how much referenced does it need to be to be fully accepted? That's one of the questions to be answered.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

we have records of them existing. and we're sure they were there. they're still in the lore. just not in the game. another example of this that is not PoC:
the LoL star guardian event had it's whole story written in the games client. after the event ended. that was removed in it's entirety.
everyone in the LoL lore community universally agree's the event is still canonical
because it was removed from the game. but not the lore. or the narrative.

by that logic. the star guardian event i mentioned earlier would fit this term. it's story was removed, and replaced with something else. yet nobody says it was cancelled. they all would say the event ended. the gamemodes in 1.0 were also removed & replaced with something else. they were never cancelled. they just ended.

being in the narrative =/= being in the game. we have records of them. so we know they exist. if you take a book. and remove a single page from all it's copies across the world. would that page be removed from the narrative of the author or his vision? ofc not. you're equating 2 very different things here

they didnt remove the statements specifically. they removed the modes containing them.
and they dont have to include them again, they already did once.

it is. that random demon & the statement that upgrades the verse should be held to the same standards in regards to canonicity. because canonicity is absolute.
we cant let 1 go if the other is staying.

we only seen & recorded it once. so probably.

Don't know I will wait for more stuff. Also what you are saying is bad because as far as I know Star Guardian is none canon to the main storyline and just canon to itself. So you are comparing two different things. A better thing would be the Sentinel event but we have Viego from it so we know it stays in lore.

 

[Executor_N0]

Here goes nothing (Third tag attempt):

@Executor_N0

Unless there has been some ruling change I'm not aware of, my opinion remains the same as the last one. I don't think limited-time content or sources need to be removed when access to them has stopped due to being limited-time. We don't stop using out-of-print comics, games, or books. Even limited-time events from games like Genshin Impact. Sometimes stuff gets removed for bad reasons, but in the end, as long as it has not been retconned, I have historically seen content still being used from time to time. So at least for me, as long as it's not contradicted and it's official and overseen as valid settings, it's fine.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Don't know I will wait for more stuff. Also what you are saying is bad because as far as I know Star Guardian is none canon to the main storyline and just canon to itself. So you are comparing two different things. A better thing would be the Sentinel event but we have Viego from it so we know it stays in lore.

by that i mean it's canon to it's skinline. ah god this is derailing. but the LoL lore works in terms of a multiverse, you got your main runeterra universe. then there are the skinline universes. each of these has their own short stories & stuff. what meant to say is "nobody thinks the event is non canon to its specific skinline story because it was removed" there fixed it.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

by that i mean it's canon to it's skinline. ah god this is derailing. but the LoL lore works in terms of a multiverse, you got your main runeterra universe. then there are the skinline universes. each of these has their own short stories & stuff. what meant to say is "nobody thinks the event is non canon to its specific skinline story because it was removed" there fixed it.

Yeah I know that and it was like that for DMC it would be easier. Problem is this is info for the main story so it can't just be periodically available but because I know companies are idiots I don't completely disagree because it was a limited event. I still don't like it, but won't fight for anyone accepting it because it does make sense.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

There should also be proper documentation of the thing existing otherwise someone could just come up with a fake scan and say it came a limited time event or another version of the game. Scans which cannot be verified or traced to exist in things such as videos or update logs are not good.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

There should also be proper documentation of the thing existing otherwise someone could just come up with a fake scan and say it came a limited time event or another version of the game. Scans which cannot be verified or traced to exist in things such as videos or update logs are not good.

This will be left for another thread. The purpose of this one is preparing the rules beforehand.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Yeah I know that and it was like that for DMC it would be easier. Problem is this is info for the main story so it can't just be periodically available but because I know companies are idiots I don't completely disagree because it was a limited event. I still don't like it, but won't fight for anyone accepting it because it does make sense.

so you're neutral?

Unless there has been some ruling change I'm not aware of, my opinion remains the same as the last one. I don't think limited-time content or sources need to be removed when access to them has stopped due to being limited-time. We don't stop using out-of-print comics, games, or books. Even limited-time events from games like Genshin Impact. Sometimes stuff gets removed for bad reasons, but in the end, as long as it has not been retconned, I have historically seen content still being used from time to time. So at least for me, as long as it's not contradicted and it's official and overseen as valid settings, it's fine.

so you agree with the proposals?

sorry for asking directly. but with the recent voting manipulation drama going on . i want to be extra sure on who to include on the tally

 

[Executor_N0]

so you agree with the proposals?

sorry for asking directly. but with the recent voting manipulation drama going on . i want to be extra sure on who to include on the tally

Yes, with the information available I'm fine with using PoC stuff that has been removed as long as nothing gets contradicted later on.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

so you're neutral?

so you agree with the proposals?

sorry for asking directly. but with the recent voting manipulation drama going on . i want to be extra sure on who to include on the tally

Put me on neutral yes. I still disagree, but this is more due to myself and not due to any hard reason. That's because this was from a timed event so it's normal that it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

there isnt standards for that AFAIK. and if there was. verses like Destiny uses deleted stuff to my knowledge. so probably should be the same for PoC's case

Yeah many Destiny contents in Vsb arent even exist in game anymore because the update and limited time events,thats why most of them only could be found on YouTube

 

[Lonkitt]

There hasn't really been any argument. What this thread aims to do is to establish a precedent in regards to our canon standards and the usage of "deleted content" and when it's applicable to a verse.

Man we're really going in circles, huh?

 

[Robo432343]

if you disagree with this revision then you disagree with the stuff destiny has in the profiles...no?
classic whataboutism

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

if you disagree with this revision then you disagree with the stuff destiny has in the profiles...no?
classic whataboutism

Said no one

 

[Robo432343]

Said no one

i thought i was gonna get dunked on for using whatboutism

 

[Vietthai96]

As someone who is familiar with game stuffs especially the damned Chinese games i'm fine with using PoC as long as nothing contradict the old deleted scans. Literally delete old content from limited time events is technical reason, i'm extremwly familiar with game developing stuff, most devs don't want to bloat their games size specially mobile game since phone storage can't compare to PC/Laptop storage. Only handful amount of devs like Manjuu with Azur Lane, Mihoyo with Honkai Impact 3rd they archived limited event dialogues, cutscenes thus keep rising up their game size (these game are over 10GB now)

 

[Marcusbwfc]

provided deleted content is viewable, i.e. youtube, theres no reason not to use it. youd be killing off a lot of stuff by saying you cant used delisted mobile games or delisted digital only console games just because they arent playable any more so if the plan is to delete all content and make it non canon just because its from media like that then i would disagree with this to the highest level. now if the game never officially released thats a lot different but if it did release, the stuff happened and its silly to pretend it's non canon. pokemon masters and yugioh duel links will will eventually go down and then we'd have to pretend tehyre non canon?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Something important to note here is that you won't find a YouTube video with said scans, we tried.

 

[SYPHe5D]

We have video recordings with Few of them.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Well there is also this one moderator dude in official PoC server who is also a YouTuber that played Chinese PoC claiming that he seen all these scans from the imgur link except for the Void stuff (probably didn't seen that) so there is this confirmation. Not to mention he is from a non-bias party who said he didn't seen the void scan tells everything that his statement regarding this is actually legit then anything else.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Well there is also this one moderator dude in official PoC server who is also a YouTuber that played Chinese PoC claiming that he seen all these scans from the imgur link except for the Void stuff (probably didn't seen that) so there is this confirmation. Not to mention he is from a non-bias party who said he didn't seen the void scan tells everything that his statement regarding this is actually legit then anything else.

Word of mouth is unreliable and being a moderator in a server even if official doesn't make you figure of authority for the subject as their purpose is to moderate the server. Void stuff seems to very likely be fake at the very least.

 

[Vietthai96]

What Void stuff???

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Anyways keep the talk to the OP, scans will be discussed later.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Word of mouth is unreliable and being a moderator in a server even if official doesn't make you figure of authority for the subject as their purpose is to moderate the server. Void stuff seems to very likely be fake at the very least.

From a logical standpoint, we also never seen a description on Primordial Chaos which doesn't make any sense to not be included into the game files when we have the sourced scan brought its concept but no one seen its description whatsoever meaning we never really looked deep into the events which is too late now to go back. So from this point, i do believe the scans from that imgur link seems to be legit especially when we have a word from the moderator of the official PoC server itself claiming it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

From a logical point, we also never seen a description on Primordial Chaos which doesn't make any sense to not be included into the game files when we have the sourced scan brought its concept but no one seen its description whatsoever meaning we never really looked deep into the events which is too late now to go back. So from this point, i do believe the scans from that imgur link seems to be legit.

I agree with deleted things can be used but they have to be sourced and archived in a proper manner as using scans that literally cannot be verified in a reliable way is really just unhealthy.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I agree with deleted things can be used but they have to be sourced and archived in a proper manner as using scans that literally cannot be verified in a reliable way is really just unhealthy.

I agree with your points but i think we should discuss it later in the next thread that is a follow up of it since its a thread regarding what things that need to be considered canon and usable. The PoC scans discussion will wait for now.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I agree with your points but i think we should discuss it later in the next thread that is a follow up of it since its a thread regrading what things that need to be considered canon and usable. The PoC scans discussion will wait for now.

Alright.

 

[Marcusbwfc]

if theres no actual proof then i wouldnt count it then, since people could easily be making stuff up. so as long as theres actual evidence that isnt 'just trust me bro' so im fine with stuff that can actually be proven

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

By the way, as someone who has played 1.0 like 2 times, and 2.0 3 times, i can tell you that the mode pertained here was "Peak Trial" and "Bloodyfeast".
These weren't events but rather modes that one could play whenever you liked, and you could get juicy rewards. In this case, the scans were in the Bloodyfeast mode. However they updated the mode so that it shows your team's health and equipment, and not the scans.

This is explicitly incorrect, by the way. Bloody Feast was added on July 22nd, 2021. Multiple videos from Bilibili show people playing the 1.0 version not long after launch and around the time the 9D soul stuff started circulating (around September to November 2021, look at the dates the videos were posted; The 9D soul scans were from October 2021). These videos clearly display no such scans, instead showing the team display you claim was added later. In case you wanna claim that the scans were removed before then, that would also be odd, considering that a video from July 23rd, 2021 - one day after the game mode released - also shows the team display and no mention of 9D souls, or anything at all for that matter.

Bloody Feast doesn't have scans at all. It has always been the team display.

Can you and the other DMC supporters make a decisive statement on where these scans come from?

 

[Palito266]

This is explicitly incorrect, by the way. Bloody Feast was added on July 22nd, 2021. Multiple videos from Bilibili show people playing the 1.0 version not long after launch and around the time the 9D soul stuff started circulating (around September to November 2021, look at the dates the videos were posted; The 9D soul scans were from October 2021). These videos clearly display no such scans, instead showing the team display you claim was added later. In case you wanna claim that the scans were removed before then, that would also be odd, considering that a video from July 23rd, 2021 - one day after the game mode released - also shows the team display and no mention of 9D souls, or anything at all for that matter.

Bloody Feast doesn't have scans at all. It has always been the team display.

AFAIK it was always like that, unless you're talking about any other version such as TapTap, you'd need to specify which one is it.

 

[Sevil Natas]

if theres no actual proof then i wouldnt count it then, since people could easily be making stuff up. so as long as theres actual evidence that isnt 'just trust me bro' so im fine with stuff that can actually be proven

"people could easily be making stuff up " couldnt be further from the truth here. the scans themselves are in a constant format and are overlapped to a constant background img. they're near impossible to fake without leaving a trace. you need to be precise down to the pixel. and even if you have the photo editing skills to manage that. they got an image in the background. that is impossible to edit around without leaving artifacts. so you need a blank background photo just for that. which is unobtainable by playing the game. you also need to somehow get the font that the game uses and you also need to be fluent in chinese.

so its not as easy as you're making it out to be.

anyway this thread isnt about this. so you can debate this all you want when we're adding stuff to profiles. in this thread we're not

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

AFAIK it was always like that, unless you're talking about any other version such as TapTap, you'd need to specify which one is it.

If it was always like that, then why did you claim the scans came from Bloody Feast?

 

[Palito266]

If it was always like that, then why did you claim the scans came from Bloody Feast?

Because i'm unsure if you're talking about another version of the game released in another store, which to my knowledge had different contents depending where you downloaded them.

 

[Sevil Natas]

If it was always like that, then why did you claim the scans came from Bloody Feast?

ahem. check the OP. we literally have the bloody feast on video showing one of the scans. and there is the soul scan as well

 

[SYPHe5D]

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Because i'm unsure if you're talking about another version of the game released in another store, which to my knowledge had different contents depending where you downloaded them.

....Do you have a source for that? And do you know which version the scans were in?

ahem. check the OP. we literally have the bloody feast on video showing one of the scans. and there is the soul scan as well

Which contradicts every other piece of footage found, and the fact that the mode in question does not have loading screen tips.

That's like saying "yeah bro Luigi is totally in Mario 64, this youtube video proves it" when nobody else has been able to verify that and the video contradicts every other video of Mario 64 in existence. Getting some real DBH Universe Tree vibes from this ngl

 

[Palito266]

....Do you have a source for that? And do you know which version the scans were in?

Some people that had both apps said that, but take that with a grain of salt.
At one moment i started believing the scans weren't real since i couldn't find them either, but i'm kind of neutral now since a Dev/Mod said the scans indeed existed. This is why i'm in disagreement with re-adding them NOW instead of searching through them in the Global 2.0 Release. Waiting is so much a better option for me, but alas, i really can't do anything about that here.