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Devil May Cry - About PoC

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LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I literally brought you an example of things literally deleted. Like, the Living RPG is gone, dead. It is not maintained, nor upholded, nor anything of the sort by WotC (and in fact, information of it isn't supposed to be readily distributed, from what I've heard in certain d&d forums).

It still canon, because Savage Tide referenced it, and Savage Tide is actively recognized as having taken place canonically in the verse, as then it got referenced in subsequent editions.

That fulfills our requirements quite nicely. It's the same here.
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This brings me to my whole "delisted games" and "delisted DLC" and "Multiplayer servers shut down" argument.

Normally, they are not retconned, just delisted because of logistics, but they have severe implications for the franchise's plots down the line.

Assassin's Creed comes to mind. A lot of the DLC is just straight up inaccessible now, but a lot of it is not only referenced in tiny bits, but it has major implications for the games forward. For example, the Da Vinci DLC in AC Brotherhood is now only available on Remastered Editions of Brotherhood, whereas on PC it's more or less inaccessible because the servers shut down, however, the ending of the DLC leads directly into AC3.

AC's old Multiplayer also provided further insights into the game's lore and the hunting of Desmond Miles. Multiplayer is no longer available, but they are lliterally referenced throughout the series and explain the rise of Juhani Otso Berg.

Now, AC3's ending of Pivot Points where Desmond's genes are uploaded to the Abstergo Cloud to analyze after his death, isn't present in AC3 Remastered because it requires online connections. But without it, AC4 Black Flag does not exist (It even outright references the Sample 17 Project being a Cloud-based upload program).

AC Project Legacy and AC Initiates were all websites that provided further insight and lore to the history of the Assassins and Templars that have since been shut down (But thankfully archived by the AC Wiki at large), but they too hold massive significance for the games going forward, and one of the documents (In AC Origins).
 
SYPHe5D said:
General WTH vs goku when
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Versus Azathoth and Popo

KLOL506 said:
This brings me to my whole "delisted games" and "delisted DLC" and "Multiplayer servers shut down" argument.

Normally, they are not retconned, just delisted because of logistics, but they have severe implications for the franchise's plots down the line.

Assassin's Creed comes to mind. A lot of the DLC is just straight up inaccessible now, but a lot of it is not only referenced in tiny bits, but it has major implications for the games forward. For example, the Da Vinci DLC in AC Brotherhood is now only available on Remastered Editions of Brotherhood, whereas on PC it's more or less inaccessible because the servers shut down, however, the ending of the DLC leads directly into AC3.

AC's old Multiplayer also provided further insights into the game's lore and the hunting of Desmond Miles. Multiplayer is no longer available, but they are lliterally referenced throughout the series and explain the rise of Juhani Otso Berg.

Now, AC3's ending of Pivot Points where Desmond's genes are uploaded to the Abstergo Cloud to analyze after his death, isn't present in AC3 Remastered because it requires online connections. But without it, AC4 Black Flag does not exist (It even outright references the Sample 17 Project being a Cloud-based upload program).

AC Project Legacy and AC Initiates were all websites that provided further insight and lore to the history of the Assassins and Templars that have since been shut down (But thankfully archived by the AC Wiki at large), but they too hold massive significance for the games going forward, and one of the documents.
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I have no problem as long as it's referenced in some way basically. Just a nod, though from examples brought here a lot of stuff still exist. The issue would be flavor text but we shall see.
 
To give a small summary:

One of the game modes that had the scans was a kind of super boss encounter that changed weekly (?). There you had to fight any of the main story bosses with over 12 times the normal health bar in a time limit and during the loading screen you would get the infamous 9D wank scan.

In a future update they completely changed the interface to show your teammates and their builds and then the event was completely scrapped down.

In 2.0 an event called chaos crisis or something like that replaced the old super boss events.
 
Basically yeah smaller stuff and singular instances can be talked about but the general rule is if it's in in some form it gets stuff even not in unless a contradiction exists.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
To give a small summary:

One of the game modes that had the scans was a kind of super boss encounter that changed weekly (?). There you had to fight any of the main story bosses with over 12 times the normal health bar in a time limit and during the loading screen you would get the infamous 9D wank scan.

In a future update they completely changed the interface to show your teammates and their builds and then the event was completely scrapped down.

In 2.0 an event called chaos crisis or something like that replaced the old super boss events.
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I mean I assume the loading screen wasn't changing per boss and was pretty much the same stuff? If such info is not referenced how can we be sure it's even in now. Because there is a lot of info about most stuff ( I remember it was about souls?) but if that is never noted anywhere how could we use that to basically lift the whole verse up of one single scan that it now nowhere to be found. If it's noted in another event or something it should still be used though.
 
I'm pretty sure that gets applied to many matters of uncertain canon. Even somewhat loose references like some of CFYOW novel's cosmology information being confirmed in the new Thousand Year Blood War anime has helped to treat the novels as canon even though they weren't even written by the same author or supervised by him as far as I know.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
To give a small summary:

One of the game modes that had the scans was a kind of super boss encounter that changed weekly (?). There you had to fight any of the main story bosses with over 12 times the normal health bar in a time limit and during the loading screen you would get the infamous 9D wank scan.

In a future update they completely changed the interface to show your teammates and their builds and then the event was completely scrapped down.

In 2.0 an event called chaos crisis or something like that replaced the old super boss events.
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Hang on, that would make them short time events rather than deleted content as well, wouldn't it? If those lore screens were essentially a short term bonus.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
To give a small summary:

One of the game modes that had the scans was a kind of super boss encounter that changed weekly (?). There you had to fight any of the main story bosses with over 12 times the normal health bar in a time limit and during the loading screen you would get the infamous 9D wank scan.

In a future update they completely changed the interface to show your teammates and their builds and then the event was completely scrapped down.

In 2.0 an event called chaos crisis or something like that replaced the old super boss events.
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so I was right all along and it was kinda like a limited even thing
 
Wouldn't those screens being limited time events actually make them more usable rather than less? It means they were released as part of a bonus and even reward system for a short time, rather than being canned content.
 
From what I understood it was a permanent mode that changed bosses, but eventually the whole mode was scrapped? Something like Twisted Treelines for LoL.

Random-Helper323 said:
Wouldn't those screens being limited time events actually make them more usable rather than less? It means they were released as part of a bonus and even reward system for a short time, rather than being canned content.
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I mean the mode was reworked first and then scrapped. It wasn't limited as much as it was a failure. If I understood it wrong Tony can correct me. Beyond that mode this info is never referenced anywhere else and in the new version it doesn't exist in any way or form but if taken into account basically boosts the whole verse. I personally have no idea how that would be taken in consideration.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Basically yeah smaller stuff and singular instances can be talked about but the general rule is if it's in in some form it gets stuff even not in unless a contradiction exists.


I mean I assume the loading screen wasn't changing per boss and was pretty much the same stuff? If such info is not referenced how can we be sure it's even in now. Because there is a lot of info about most stuff ( I remember it was about souls?) but if that is never noted anywhere how could we use that to basically lift the whole verse up of one single scan that it now nowhere to be found. If it's noted in another event or something it should still be used though.
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They are not in 2.0, thats the point.

I literally deleted poc because shit is not in 2.0 like are you even reading what Sevil is proposing or just jumped here to chit chat?
 
Just a question for my own sake, but has the question of why the scans were scrapped ever been proposed to the devs? I know that you all have contact with some of them, what did they say ?
 
I just read it. I still think such an important info should be referenced somewhere in the game to hold up. It's a single statement that would raise the whole verse's dimensionality, but that is not included anymore in the game in any shape or form. It's not an info in any other loading screen or even a tip somewhere etc. Also was the mode limited or where the bosses limited? Because from your words it seemed the bosses were initially limited and the mode was scrapped altogether due to low participation maybe.

Basically to me something so important shouldn't be used unless something at least aludes to it like higher dimensional stuff being talked or something.
 
Its true 9D Souls stuff wasn't mentioned again throughout the game but we need to realize that the description also includes the idea of Names, mind and information of an individual within those souls which is actually the case in DMC3 manga. Similarly, the idea of Names is also mentioned in this despite not being a thing in the game.

Now how will you validate this references is on you.
 
Comicgyal said:
Just a question for my own sake, but has the question of why the scans were scrapped ever been proposed to the devs? I know that you all have contact with some of them, what did they say ?
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Something, something, those guys weren't that helpful beyond recognizing what was real and what wasn't. When asked they said they were not familiar with 1.0 (given the devs we are in contact are for the global release of 2.0 you can see why they know shit about it) and during the last QnA they couldn't say more about it.



@Serlock_Holmes

I dont understand your question? The stuff is nowhere in 2.0 hence why I deleted it. Sevil is saying the lore still applies because it was a limited event that was deleted.

@LephyrTheRevanchist

The event was called Peak of Trials (I think) Here is how the event used to look like:



When co-op got implemented the event changed to the absurd health bards I mentioned above and the scans were scrapped to show your teammates (I'll get the video of people killing Pluto in 12 seconds if I can find it) and later it was deleted completely.

Edit: can't find it but its basically very similar to this one


The funny thing of the one I had is that people literally melt his health bar in seconds lol
 
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okay alot of things to unpack here.
first, there's no difference between 2.0 & other updates technically speaking. it's just the 2.0 is a very big update, hell the chinese version is in 2.1.1 as of right now, so if every update needs to have a reference for stuff deleted in previous updates. then we're not gonna do alot with this game until it gets discontinued. which could take several years. take the current vergil event for example. he has an entire story arc centered around him & i'm pretty sure it's gonna be gone once his event ends. the devs got no reason to mention his stuff specifically again or mention random statements that may come from it. but that doesnt mean that stuff is automatically removed from the games canon. as the devs arent just wasting their time creating stuff that they later "scrap" the second that stuff ends

second.
alot of the new lore statements are just explanations for the stuff that is already established in the lore of the entire franchise. take the name statement for instance. it simply elaborates on stuff we already knew from the DMC 3 manga. same for the soul scan. and others. the only statements that bring new stuff is the descriptions explaining explaining the abilities of some PoC demons which btw the abilities of demons between 2.0 & 1.0 remained pretty much the same so safe to say those arent retconned. the book of demons which is still in the game, and weapon descriptions. those however. at least most of them. could have a case for being retconned as they're no longer available to be used on characters. however the point stands .almost all the controversial stuff in peak of combat. have been referenced from before peak of combat was even a thing. they're still aspects in the lore of DMC. the update overhauling peak of combat's gameplay shouldn't affect them unless PoC specifically contradicts it's past statements about them. if you want stuff that mentions them exactly as PoC does. then thats just ridiculous. why would any writer or game designer repeat stuff that is already used

third.
yea most of these statements came from limited time events, including the peak trials (a weekly challenge event that places the player against random fights & then bosses. each iteration of this event is different as the player faces different enemies & bosses everytime it's played) . & the bloody feast (a co-up mode that places the players against bosses, it also changes every week). so basically most of these statements came from limited time events that pretty much end every week.
 
Sevil Natas said:
okay alot of things to unpack here.
first, there's no difference between 2.0 & other updates technically speaking. it's just the 2.0 is a very big update, hell the chinese version is in 2.1.1 as of right now, so if every update needs to have a reference for stuff deleted in previous updates. then we're not gonna do alot with this game until it gets discontinued. which could take several years. take the current vergil event for example. he has an entire story arc centered around him & i'm pretty sure it's gonna be gone once his event ends. the devs got no reason to mention his stuff specifically again or mention random statements that may come from it. but that doesnt mean that stuff is automatically removed from the games canon. as the devs arent just wasting their time creating stuff that they later "scrap" the second that stuff ends

second.
alot of the new lore statements are just explanations for the stuff that is already established in the lore of the entire franchise. take the name statement for instance. it simply elaborates on stuff we already knew from the DMC 3 manga. same for the soul scan. and others. the only statements that bring new stuff is the descriptions explaining explaining the abilities of some PoC demons which btw the abilities of demons between 2.0 & 1.0 remained pretty much the same so safe to say those arent retconned. the book of demons which is still in the game, and weapon descriptions. those however. at least most of them. could have a case for being retconned as they're no longer available to be used on characters. however the point stands .almost all the controversial stuff in peak of combat. have been referenced from before peak of combat was even a thing. they're still aspects in the lore of DMC. the update overhauling peak of combat's gameplay shouldn't affect them unless PoC specifically contradicts it's past statements about them. if you want stuff that mentions them exactly as PoC does. then thats just ridiculous. why would any writer or game designer repeat stuff that is already used

third.
yea most of these statements came from limited time events, including the peak trials (a weekly challenge event that places the player against random fights & then bosses. each iteration of this event is different as the player faces different enemies & bosses everytime it's played) . & the bloody feast (a co-up mode that places the players against bosses, it also changes every week). so basically most of these statements came from limited time events that pretty much end every week.
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As long as the stuff is referenced, it's fine with me. Also get the scans, bucko
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
As long as the stuff is referenced, it's fine with me. Also get the scans, bucko
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well first we gotta elaborate on what it means by referenced. pretty much every important scan in PoC is in it self a reference to some DMC concept that was always a thing. souls names etc.. they were always referenced in the same manner that PoC talks about them in. but to say they need to referenced again with the same specifics that are in the PoC statements is just overkill imo

like for example. in the PoC name scan, names were mentioned to be created from before the creation of the demon world. that statement is no longer in the game due to the changes in the new blood palace in 2.0, is it fair to assume that just because smth that specifc got removed for technical reasons. it needs to be mentioned again in order for it to be usable again?
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
If you mean of the 9D stuff I don't think anything quite like that exists. It's the soul of demons from what I get though.
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that's still a specific detail mentioned in regards to souls.
why do you think it should be not usable? the event containing it got removed once it ended, why should it be considered scrapped from the canon & the narrative perspective because of that? the event itself was removed because its time was up, and the transition to 2.0 happened because the devs thought the original game flopped. not because they didnt like these statements, nor was it because they didnt like how they handled the lore, all the events that led to their removal got nothing to do with lore nor narrative. so i ask again why should these statements considered "scrapped" & not in the narrative? literally nothing indicates that.
 
Sevil Natas said:
that's still a specific detail mentioned in regards to souls.
why do you think it should be not usable? the event containing it got removed once it ended, why should it be considered scrapped from the canon & the narrative perspective because of that? the event itself was removed because its time was up, and the transition to 2.0 happened because the devs thought the original game flopped. not because they didnt like these statements, nor was it because they didnt like how they handled the lore, all the events that led to their removal got nothing to do with lore nor narrative. so i ask again why should these statements considered "scrapped" & not in the narrative? literally nothing indicates that.
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Because they are not in any way shape or form present now. The event was scrapped because it didn't do well. At least as far as I have understood the limited part of the event was the boss you were fighting in a dungeon sense, not the whole game mode which was taken away and eventually followed by the version. Whether the statements found there stand in the lore or not we don't really know, else this thread would have been meaningless. So we are now deciding whether to use that content that was cancelled and any info found within. If the event had ended I would be less skeptical, even though I would still be due to how important that statement is, but now not only was the event taken away not normally but due to low participation but the version that housed it was drastically changed.
Sevil Natas said:
literally nothing indicates that.
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Also literally indicates that they aren't because they don't exist. As I said if we had more info one way or the other this thread would have been meaningless.

I will ask again though. Why was the event limited? Were the bosses changing or was it planned to be done with? Because those kind of stuff tend to be in the main game and you fight some bosses for stuff every week.
 
@Sevil Natas If you want i can explain how all of the PoC scans reference something in regards to DMC Lore, and they aren't just new stuff, but rather something that has further context.

By the way, as someone who has played 1.0 like 2 times, and 2.0 3 times, i can tell you that the mode pertained here was "Peak Trial" and "Bloodyfeast".
These weren't events but rather modes that one could play whenever you liked, and you could get juicy rewards. In this case, the scans were in the Bloodyfeast mode. However they updated the mode so that it shows your team's health and equipment, and not the scans.
Later 2.0 removed these modes and replaced them with others.
My main schtik was always verifying if these scans were indeed real or just a fabrication made to wank. Though this problem has been solved since one of the developers confirmed these scans weren't photoshopped or fabricated and indeed existed. If you want to check out the message for yourself here's the Message Link to it: https://discord.com/channels/1034305072227692575/1034309556794314783/1147093159797588018 and it's inside the Official Peak of Combat server, which can be found here: https://discord.com/invite/devilmaycrypoc
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Because they are not in any way shape or form present now
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cool and im arguing that is meaningless if the reason they're removed got nothing to do with the lore. why should something removed for technical reasons be excluded from the lore? thats not them being scrapped from the narrative, thats them being removed from the game to make way for the new update.
Serlock_Holmes said:
Whether the statements found there stand in the lore or not we don't really know
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we know they still stand in the lore, because the reasons they're removed from the game have got nothing to do with the lore. we should assume otherwise why?
Serlock_Holmes said:
So we are now deciding whether to use that content that was cancelled and any info found within.
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they werent "cancelled". they were old content that WERE in the OFFICIAL release of the game.
Serlock_Holmes said:
even though I would still be due to how important that statement is
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being skeptical due to how "important" the statement is in this context is biased. we dont decide what stuff is canon for how "important" it is in the lore.
and remember the devs dont see stuff how we in the vs communities see it, to them these are just regular statements about the lore.
Serlock_Holmes said:
but now not only was the event taken away not normally but due to low participation but the version that housed it was drastically changed.
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False. the event that contained the specific soul statement you're talking about ended. the "event" in this case is the challenge itself. the gamemode changes weekly & the challenges in it are a timed thing. each have their own bosses & levels.
 
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