Dante's Immeasurable justifications

[Golden_Void]

There seems to be two descriptions, one where it's named as teleportation and another one where it's named as movement, but yeah Trickster being a style that allows you to physically move easier says a lot about what they truly mean. Again, I give the scans and my judgement, and people decide what to do from there.

Air trick for Vergil is blatant teleportation. Air trick for Dante is high-speed movement. This has always been the case.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

There seems to be two descriptions, one where it's named as teleportation and another one where it's named as movement, but yeah Trickster being a style that allows you to physically move easier says a lot about what they truly mean. Again, I give the scans and my judgement, and people decide what to do from there.

Air trick for Vergil is blatant teleportation. Air trick for Dante is high-speed movement. This has always been the case.

Hilarious enough PoC has it labeled like movements too when it is known to teleport you around and this time Vergil's trick ability is also referred as movements.

Hmmm... Teleportation and movements ehh? Sounds like a consistent theme with DMC speed feats to me at this point.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Hey, there's a scene at the end of DMC5 where Dante and Vergil are fighting demons, and Furies which are "dashing" are included among the demons being killed. There's also Nero's grapple moves which includes two against Fury (one on the ground and one in the air) where it dashes around him and gets caught, and where they trade blows while the Fury is dashing. We should look at those scenes and see just how untouchable the Furies are when dashing.

In regards to the dashing thing, I think we have to think about whether it's genuinely an amp or if it's just its regular speed. We know it is still physically present since it stirs up the puddle running through it, and we know it is able to physically move its body while "dashing" as shown by its changing poses. This tells us it isn't vanishing then reappearing aka teleporting. It also changes direction and accurately stops in the right place even while moving like that, which should require it to be able to react at that speed.

So it's either an amp that somehow prevents them from attacking but not from moving their limbs or stirring up puddles, or it's just a representation of their regular speed with after images and inconsistent depiction, abuse of cinematic time, like what we get in basically every verse with such after images (Bleach, Dragon Ball, Marvel, DC, JoJo's, DMC itself, and so many more).

 

[Palito266]

We should look at those scenes and see just how untouchable the Furies are when dashing.

Oh hey, you're right!
(Slow the speed to see more clearly). Here we can see Fury dodging Nero's attacks and even jumping via dashing (because the mist thing is present, we can assume he used his little dash). Heck, right before their clash, we can see Fury uses a dash to attack more quickly yet Nero moves in tandem with him and they both clash.

 

[Agnaa]

Yet we see Dante and Vergil do the same with Air Trick in all of their games, even as far back as DMC 3... And a thing to mention is that in some games like DMC 4 for Vergil and Dante (in lots of guides) it's defined as a quick movement (yes it's the DMC Wiki but it gives us the description and I don't have DMC 4 on-hand so my bad there), but in other descriptions, it's defined as teleportation so take that as you will.

So yes, Dante and Vergil can still replicate the same ability Fury does via their DE (since they use DE for legitimately everything), so logically they should scale off of Fury since they're seen every game doing the same thing and stated to replicate teleportation via quick movements.

Explain why you think that's the same thing, and you'll hopefully realise that it's not sufficient for scaling. Or reveal a connection that wasn't explicitly mentioned in your post. Either way would be good.

Hey, there's a scene at the end of DMC5 where Dante and Vergil are fighting demons, and Furies which are "dashing" are included among the demons being killed. There's also Nero's grapple moves which includes two against Fury (one on the ground and one in the air) where it dashes around him and gets caught, and where they trade blows while the Fury is dashing. We should look at those scenes and see just how untouchable the Furies are when dashing.

That sounds like a good idea.

It also runs around in circles in gameplay using that animation, which should require it to be able to react at that speed.

No, moving in circles does not require reacting.

So it's either an amp that somehow prevents them from attacking but not from moving their limbs or stirring up puddles, or it's just a representation of their regular speed with after images and inconsistent depiction, abuse of cinematic time, like what we get in basically every verse with such after images (Bleach, Dragon Ball, Marvel, DC, JoJo's, DMC itself, and so many more).

Why do you think it's a representation of/amp to infinite/immeasurable speed?

The only thing here that one could interpret as that (it being described as "space-time warps") also points strongly against it being a simple physical speed amp.

I've asked people to confront this twice already, but it's not being engaged with.

Oh hey, you're right!
(Slow the speed to see more clearly). Here we can see Fury dodging Nero's attacks and even jumping via dashing (because the mist thing is present, we can assume he used his little dash). Heck, right before their clash, we can see Fury uses a dash to attack more quickly yet Nero moves in tandem with him and they both clash.

Alright so, stuff I see from that, in order, uses of the dashing are bolded:

• Fury crouches back then disappears into a mist on the spot, presumably to dodge that attack.
• Fury reappears on the spot, and then starts swinging an attack.
• Fury dodges an attack by leaning backwards.
• Fury starts swinging downwards, but interrupts that to jump, dodging an attack.
• Fury and Nero clash.
• Nero blasts Fury into the air.
• Nero launches an attack at Fury, and Fury takes it while jumping up to attack in turn.
• Nero and Fury dodge a few blows from each other.
• Nero and Fury clash.
• Nero blasts Fury downwards.
• Nero blasts Fury into the air.
• Nero pulls Fury towards himself, and tries to attack it.
• Fury seemingly gets hit, then disappears into a mist, and reappears launching an attack but misses completely.
• Nero tries to attack Fury twice, but it dodges.
• Nero and Fury clash.
• Nero uppercuts Fury then blasts it away.
• Nero pulls Fury towards him, and they dodge each other's attacks in the air a few times.
• They clash, then Nero hits Fury down.

After 30 seconds, it seems like the rest of this is going to be more of the same.

Which part of this is supposed to support scaling?

 

[Golden_Void]

I won't have time to continue in-depth here again until this weekend.

 

[Agnaa]

If it helps to clarify things, after all this discussion, I think Fury's ability is probably some sort of space-time collapsing/compressing thing. To add arbitrary numbers, it might shrink the 10 meters they want to run into 2 meters, letting them effectively reach a destination 5x as quickly.

I think that's the answer which accommodates the most evidence. Outside of that the best answer is "the devs and codex-writers didn't have a consistent vision for how it works". Any other answer you give will meet almost as many contradictions as there are pieces of evidence supporting it.

 

[Palito266]

Explain why you think that's the same thing, and you'll hopefully realise that it's not sufficient for scaling. Or reveal a connection that wasn't explicitly mentioned in your post. Either way would be good.

Much like Fury's dash, Dante's Ground Trick (and Air Trick by extension) has him starting his little quick movement in a cool crouching position, and when he reappears close to the enemy he's seen standing upright, meaning he moved during the quick movement, like Fury.
They both produce a similar (albeit not the same) afterimage effect and are at different positions from where they started their dash, meaning that they have had to physically move in order to do so.

Alright so, stuff I see from that, in order, uses of the dashing are bolded:

• Fury and Nero clash.

Which part of this is supposed to support scaling?

This part is the important one.
At exactly 6:14 (you should probably slow down the video since it's hard to see normally), when Nero has his sword back ready to clash with Fury and the sound of the sword being ready happens, you can actually see how Fury at this moment uses his dash. This can be seen by him exhuding those red particles when he does the dash, and the glowing eyes whenever he's going to do one.
Now, if we assume that Fury's dash truly is infinite/immeasurable, this would mean that Fury should've been quicker than Nero and hit him directly since he was dashing and making his arm move. Yet this is not the case as Nero can move in-tandem with him and block his claw, clashing with the Fury. I screenshotted the exact moment where this happen if anyone misses it, though it has bad quality because it goes so fast even with 0.25 speed it's hard to see. Nevertheless, you can see how Nero's sword is up and he's about to clash, and Fury is moving his left arm with glowy eyes and having the said particles from his dash around him. This means that Fury was using the dash while attacking Nero, yet Nero moved in-tandem as I've stated.

 

[Agnaa]

Much like Fury's dash, Dante's Ground Trick (and Air Trick by extension) has him starting his little quick movement in a cool crouching position, and when he reappears close to the enemy he's seen standing upright, meaning he moved during the quick movement, like Fury.
They both produce a similar (albeit not the same) afterimage effect and are at different positions from where they started their dash, meaning that they have had to physically move in order to do so.

Fury doesn't always start by crouching, and doesn't always change stances when using that.

So really, the similarity is just that they visibly disappear then reappear somewhere else. This is not enough to consider them the same ability.

This part is the important one.
At exactly 6:14 (you should probably slow down the video since it's hard to see normally), when Nero has his sword back ready to clash with Fury and the sound of the sword being ready happens, you can actually see how Fury at this moment uses his dash. This can be seen by him exhuding those red particles when he does the dash, and the glowing eyes whenever he's going to do one.
Now, if we assume that Fury's dash truly is infinite/immeasurable, this would mean that Fury should've been quicker than Nero and hit him directly since he was dashing and making his arm move. Yet this is not the case as Nero can move in-tandem with him and block his claw, clashing with the Fury. I screenshotted the exact moment where this happen if anyone misses it, though it has bad quality because it goes so fast even with 0.25 speed it's hard to see. Nevertheless, you can see how Nero's sword is up and he's about to clash, and Fury is moving his left arm with glowy eyes and having the said particles from his dash around him. This means that Fury was using the dash while attacking Nero, yet Nero moved in-tandem as I've stated.

I don't think that tiny puff of darkness represents the ability being used. You can see that pop up at other completely mundane times, such as 6:28 it when Fury's simply taking a hit (you see it behind in a cloud, mixed with some of Nero's energy).

I also find it completely absurd that you'd consider that the key indicator, while in the exact same post saying that Dante has the same ability, despite him lacking that indicator. That's blatantly inconsistent.

 

[Random-Helper323]

No, moving in circles does not require reacting.

It kind of darts around all over the place, but okay.

Why do you think it's a representation of/amp to infinite/immeasurable speed?

I'm not even talking about the level of speed, but about the nature of it, and I was the one who told Robo why it wasn't immeasurable, so bringing immeasurable up here seems misinformed at best.

I also outlined exactly why it seems like speed rather than teleportation, and obviously if it's speed it's either a temporary amp which somehow prevents attacks but not moving limbs or interacting with the world, or it's just visuals representing speed. You yourself called it an amp earlier, if you recall.

The only thing here that one could interpret as that (it being described as "space-time warps") also points strongly against it being a simple physical speed amp.

I've asked people to confront this twice already, but it's not being engaged with.

You're describing teleporting, which is contrary to what we see. Obviously this is a case of "writers can't do physics and animators don't care about it", but still. And even if it's accelerating itself using space time warping, that would still technically be a speed amp, regardless of whether it's a temporary boost or a constant speed level. Moving fast enough to jump through space time is technically still speed after all, and calling it teleporting when it clearly travels through the space it's traversing rather than skipping over it is just plain inaccurate.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not even talking about the level of speed, but about the nature of it

This thread has already been dragged out so much that I don't think there's much point in talking to someone who has no opinions on what speed rating that ability would get.

 

[Random-Helper323]

This thread has already been dragged out so much that I don't think there's much point in talking to someone who has no opinions on what speed rating that ability would get.

I never said I had no opinions on the speed tier, and I'd like to request you stop being so passive aggressive. I know you have a bad taste in your mouth about DMC, it's clear from your hostility towards the verse as a whole, but you're essentially telling me to shut up because you don't like what I'm saying.

And the thread is "dragging on" because people are arguing over multiple speed levels and showings, and all of the tiers have some validity. Even Argosax's transcending distance and time was suggested by Redgrave to still be immeasurable speed. Me suggesting that the Fury isn't teleporting but travelling fast isn't derailment.

Okay, rant over. Look, I get that this is stressful, but can't we try to figure this crap out instead of turning on each other like a pack of rabid wolves?

 

[Ningenron]

You're confusing mods here fam; it was oven's who accused Sonic of doctoring a scan, not Agnaa.

Also, I'm pretty sure this is the first time Agnaa debates this much against dmc so dunno from where the hate is coming.

 

[Random-Helper323]

You're confusing mods here fam; it was oven's who accused Sonic of doctoring a scan, not Agnaa.

Really? My mistake. That was the most questionable action in the thread and I hope Ovens learns from it.

Also, I'm pretty sure this is the first time Agnaa debates this much against dmc so dunno from where the hate is coming.

If you're saying I'm hating on Agnaa, I'm really not. I just want to figure this mess out without all of us going completely mad.

If you're referring to Agnaa's hostility to the verse, it's obviously a bad taste left over from the PoC debacle. Honestly I was annoyed about PoC too, because I'd bring up things from the series and no-one cared because PoC was more important. That stupid mobile game took over the entire discussion and left the rest of the series by the wayside.

 

[Agnaa]

I never said I had no opinions on the speed tier, and I'd like to request you stop being so passive aggressive.

I asked why you think it's a representation of/amp to infinite/immeasurable speed. You said you're not talking about the level of speed, and then brought up how you'd already said that it wasn't immeasurable. Without ever saying "anyway I think it's infinite for this reason" or "no I don't actually think it's infinite, I just think it makes Dante upscale", or anything like that.

So I think it was reasonable for me to read that as you not having an opinion on whether it's infinite or MFTL+. But hey, now you're clarifying that you do have an opinion; so can you please provide it?

I know you have a bad taste in your mouth about DMC, it's clear from your hostility towards the verse as a whole, but you're essentially telling me to shut up because you don't like what I'm saying.

If you're referring to Agnaa's hostility to the verse, it's obviously a bad taste left over from the PoC debacle. Honestly I was annoyed about PoC too, because I'd bring up things from the series and no-one cared because PoC was more important. That stupid mobile game took over the entire discussion and left the rest of the series by the wayside.

???

I wasn't there for the PoC stuff, and I don't really feel much about it. Looking back through my posts, I think this is the second DMC thread I've been in. And in general, I see myself as just applying the same level of scrutiny I do for literally every verse. You can see these recent examples of me discussing verses I love, yet being imo similarly critical.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I asked why you think it's a representation of/amp to infinite/immeasurable speed. You said you're not talking about the level of speed, and then brought up how you'd already said that it wasn't immeasurable. Without ever saying "anyway I think it's infinite for this reason" or "no I don't actually think it's infinite, I just think it makes Dante upscale", or anything like that.

I'm not certain it's infinite, but I do think Dante should probably scale in some form. The entire concept of infinite speed sounds strange due to betraying the entire concept of movement, but I do think the Furies are travelling rather than teleporting, we know they're still physically real, and the idea that they can change poses, leave still-moving afterimages which also suggests it's speed, and physically step in puddles while moving but somehow can't attack sounds weird. I also think you're being unfair disregarding their ability to change direction while running. To add to that, they can also accurately target the player anywhere even while they never stop dashing until they attack, which logically means they have to be able to react at that speed. In short, I suspect that the Furies are generally that fast and the game is just giving us weird representation of their speed.

So I think it was reasonable for me to read that as you not having an opinion on whether it's infinite or MFTL+. But hey, now you're clarifying that you do have an opinion; so can you please provide it?

Honestly, still waiting for the MFTL+ measurement, because at the moment we're not even sure which way is up. We're running around in the dark wearing blindfolds and getting annoyed when we run into each other.

Still, if nothing else I think the reactions should scale.

I wasn't there for the PoC stuff, and I don't really feel much about it. Looking back through my posts, I think this is the second DMC thread I've been in. And in general, I see myself as just applying the same level of scrutiny I do for literally every verse. You can see these recent examples of me discussing verses I love, yet being imo similarly critical.

Maybe. There's a lot of resentment unfairly levelled towards DMC on this forum. The verse was left in shambles by that stupid mobile game.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not certain it's infinite, but I do think Dante should probably scale in some form. The entire concept of infinite speed sounds strange due to betraying the entire concept of movement, but I do think the Furies are travelling rather than teleporting, we know they're still physically real, and the idea that they can change poses, leave still-moving afterimages which also suggests it's speed, and physically step in puddles while moving but somehow can't attack sounds weird. I also think you're being unfair disregarding their ability to change direction while running. To add to that, they can also accurately target the player anywhere even while they never stop dashing until they attack, which logically means they have to be able to react at that speed. In short, I suspect that the Furies are generally that fast and the game is just giving us weird representation of their speed.

Honestly, still waiting for the MFTL+ measurement, because at the moment we're not even sure which way is up. We're running around in the dark wearing blindfolds and getting annoyed when we run into each other.

Still, if nothing else I think the reactions should scale.

Okay, so why do you think that Furies may have infinite speed?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay, so why do you think that Furies may have infinite speed?

We know they travel by leaping through space time. And as I said above, they're still physically present while running and they can move their limbs while running, which does tell us they're moving rather than teleporting.

For reactions, they can change direction mid-run and accurately target the player anywhere in the area even when they never stop dashing until the moment they attack. That targeting wouldn't be possible if they were unable to react to changes in their environment while running.

 

[Agnaa]

We know they travel by leaping through space time. And as I said above, they're still physically present while running and they can move their limbs while running, which does tell us they're moving rather than teleporting.

Why would this possibly end up at infinite? How do you conceive of them "leaping through spacetime" by running, in a way that involve traveling infinite distance in finite time, or a non-zero amount of distance in zero time?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Why would this possibly end up at infinite? How do you conceive of them "leaping through spacetime" by running, in a way that involve traveling infinite distance in finite time, or a non-zero amount of distance in zero time?

...How does any character with that speed rating do it? If it isn't possible to achieve by running then I guess mass downgrades of dozens of verses are in order.

Look, we know they're stated to jump through space time. That's where the infinite comes from, and you know it. If doing a space time jump isn't infinite then that's another issue.

 

[Agnaa]

...How does any character with that speed rating do it?

DBH gets it by crossing the infinitely-large afterlife, GoW gets it by Helios' light being able to illuminate the infinitely-large Underworld, Touhou gets it by being able to fly to the end of multiple infinitely-large constructs.

Look, we know they're stated to jump through space time, and that it's stated to be the result of them wanting speed. That's where the infinite comes from, and you know it. If doing a space time jump isn't infinite then that's another issue.

Well, what do you mean by "space time jump"? Because the only interpretations I can think of that are either incompatible with it being done through sheer speed (i.e. using space-time hax to instantly arrive at another point in space-time), or wouldn't be infinite (i.e. using space-time hax to reduce the distance between two locations).

 

[Random-Helper323]

DBH gets it by crossing the infinitely-large afterlife, GoW gets it by Helios' light being able to illuminate the infinitely-large Underworld, Touhou gets it by being able to fly to the end of multiple infinitely-large constructs.

Yeah, I think the ability to shake or destroy the infinite demon world might have some arguable significance to that, but I digress.

Well, what do you mean by "space time jump"?

Ah, now I see. I figured you were trying to stonewall by saying infinite speed isn't possible by running for anyone.

Because the only interpretations I can think of that are either incompatible with it being done through sheer speed (i.e. using space-time hax to instantly arrive at another point in space-time)

It can't be that since they do travel through the area in question.

or wouldn't be infinite (i.e. using space-time hax to reduce the distance between two locations).

I suspect what's happening is each individual movement is skipping the time from start to finish. So rather than just jumping from point A to point B, they're accelerating each step to be instant while still travelling like that. Perhaps accelerating themselves through space time. That would explain the individual steps, the changing direction, the reactions, and the ability to move limbs and interact.

Anyway, we'd need to get other input on whether a space time jump is infinite, because the issue with that feat was about whether Dante scales, not about whether it's infinite.

 

[Agnaa]

I suspect what's happening is each individual movement is skipping the time from start to finish. So rather than just jumping from point A to point B, they're accelerating each step to be instant while still travelling like that. Perhaps accelerating themselves through space time. That would explain the individual steps, the changing direction, the reactions, and the ability to move limbs and interact.

I think that reading is not justified by the information we are provided.

You're not even assuming that the warps involve the acceleration of time, but you're arguing instead for the complete elimination of it. While yeah, there are cases we have like that which are accepted (as pseudo-teleportation and pseudo-time stop), that came from an explicit statement that exactly this was happening.

And I'd also point out that such an argument would render your momentum point moot; if they're simply cutting out the time from their movements, once they stop doing that, momentum won't carry them more quickly, since their true momentum was lower, they just gave the illusion of it being higher through hax.

Anyway, we'd need to get other input on whether a space time jump is infinite, because the issue with that feat was about whether Dante scales, not about whether it's infinite.

I thought the scaling would be the easier prong of this to tackle, but it ended up not being that way.

 

[Random-Helper323]

You're not even assuming that the warps involve the acceleration of time, but you're arguing instead for the complete elimination of it. While yeah, there are cases we have like that which are accepted (as pseudo-teleportation and pseudo-time stop), that came from an explicit statement that exactly this was happening.

I do think they're accelerating. I always figured the point was that the statement specifically referencing space time rather than just space or time was what made it infinite.

Honestly, if we were to settle on the MFTL+ thing I'd be okay. My concern is all the people who want a Tier 9/8 slower than sound DMC verse or something spiteful like that. DMC5 Dante vs comic Homelander when, right?

And I'd also point out that such an argument would render your momentum point moot; if they're simply cutting out the time from their movements, once they stop doing that, momentum won't carry them more quickly, since their true momentum was lower, they just gave the illusion of it being higher through hax.

Sorry, what momentum point? I don't think I even said the word momentum.

I thought the scaling would be the easier prong of this to tackle, but it ended up not being that way.

Again, there was a reason for the higher speed levels. Even the immeasurable thing wasn't baseless since as Redgrave pointed out, the kanji used to say Argosax transcended time and distance was a spiritual one referring to some kind of higher existence or something, and transcending both time and distance does seem to mean something. I know you disagree, I'm just saying, before you jump down my throat.

 

[Agnaa]

Sorry, what momentum point? I don't think I even said the word momentum.

My bad, confused Golden_Void's post for one of yours.

 

[Random-Helper323]

My bad, confused Golden_Void's post for one of yours.

I had another thought, DMC has multiple feats of shaking or otherwise affecting the infinite demon world. I know Wiki standards decide this matter, but shouldn't shaking or maintaining an infinite space require the energy to cross that distance thus making their speed infinite?

 

[Agnaa]

I had another thought, DMC has multiple feats of shaking or otherwise affecting the infinite demon world. I know Wiki standards decide this matter, but shouldn't shaking or maintaining an infinite space require the energy to cross that distance thus making their speed infinite?

It depends on whether it's something that would travel that distance in the first place, or whether it's something that spontaneously appears at a point within range. If it's the latter, it would just be infinite range.

Otherwise it would be infinite speed.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It depends on whether it's something that would travel that distance in the first place, or whether it's something that spontaneously appears at a point within range. If it's the latter, it would just be infinite range.

Otherwise it would be infinite speed.

So for some examples,

1. if the infinite space starts to shake and collapse because the guy maintaining it gets his butt kicked.

2. If a guy merges two universal space times, one of them being infinite.

3. if a guy is repeatedly stated to be able to destroy an infinite space.

4. if a guy places a seal spell that covers that entire space.

5. If a guy creates a universe, with him literally expanding it from nothing with his own power

6. If a guy warps two space-times together and causes time paradoxes wherein a guy who died years earlier is alive again and appears somewhere he never went before.

 

[Agnaa]

So for some examples,

1. if the infinite space starts to shake and collapse because the guy maintaining it gets his butt kicked.

2. If a guy merges two universal space times, one of them being infinite.

3. if a guy is repeatedly stated to be able to destroy an infinite space.

4. if a guy places a seal spell that covers that entire space.

5. If a guy creates a universe, with him literally expanding it from nothing with his own power

6. If a guy warps two space-times together and causes time paradoxes wherein a guy who died years earlier is alive again and appears somewhere he never went before.

Only one of those which sounds promising, to me, is 5.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Only one of those which sounds promising, to me, is 5.

That's referring to feat where Mundus in DMC1 created an infinitely expending universe with a mere flap of his wings as a battleground inside his palace that exists somewhere within Underworld.

Wanna take a look?

 

[SeijiSetto]

That's referring to feat where Mundus in DMC1 created an infinitely expending universe with a mere flap of his wings as a battleground inside his palace that exists somewhere within Underworld.

Wanna take a look?

infinitely expanding implies it isn't actually infinite, and is just growing forever

 

[SuperSonicTL]

infinitely expanding implies it isn't actually infinite, and is just growing forever

Yeah except that isn't how universe works as we established prior I think.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Yeah except that isn't how universe works as we established prior I think.

i'm not familiar
you'd have to explain why that's not the case instead of just saying "it was established prior"

 

[Agnaa]

That's referring to feat where Mundus in DMC1 created an infinitely expending universe with a mere flap of his wings as a battleground inside his palace that exists somewhere within Underworld.

Wanna take a look?

Oh, if it's just creating a universe which then undergoes inflation, then that wouldn't need infinite speed.

Yeah except that isn't how universe works as we established prior I think.

No. I actually remember looking at that feat, and it was just growing for eternity. Looked at the raws and everything.

果てしなく広がる闇の宮殿

Palace of eternally-expanding darkness

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Oh, if it's just creating a universe which then undergoes inflation, then that wouldn't need infinite speed.

No. I actually remember looking at that feat, and it was just growing for eternity. Looked at the raws and everything.

That honestly depends on how you interpret that eternally expending darkness lowkey

 

[Huesito88]

That honestly depends on you interpret that eternally, expending darkness

Is it accepted as a separate space-time?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Is it accepted as a separate space-time?

Dunno but it is a universe within the palace.

Ironically enough, that same palace also contains an Infinitely expending darkness which we call the void in DMC novel

Soo it appears to be consistent in a sense.

 

[Agnaa]

That honestly depends on you interpret that eternally expending darkness lowkey

It does. But given the context, I think eternally makes more sense, especially given how it's immediately followed by "expanding". If they wanted to say it was infinitely large, they could just say 果てしない闇の宮殿.

 

[Palito266]

Perhaps you could escale Demon Energy's Attacks (that are equal or above Mundus) to have a Speed comparable to the expansion of the universe (you could just assume a lot of stars were made rather quickly because they appear quickly as the cutscene pans out behind Dante.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It does. But given the context, I think eternally makes more sense, especially given how it's immediately followed by "expanding". If they wanted to say it was infinitely large, they could just say 果てしない闇の宮殿.

A calculation was done a while ago. When I'm at a better device I'll link it. It didn't conclude infinite, but it's much better than the FTL feats currently being used.