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so as many of know, Peak of combat content was removed from DMC profiles a while ago due PoC 2.0 being announced. since then alot of developments happened and to wrap everything in a single thread would be very chaotic & bad considering the amount arguments & discussions it would bring. so i decided to address every major problem in its own thread. regardless of how this thread turns out. the other parts would be coming. sooner or later.
this first thread is made to address what should still be usable content in the game, in a way it's a rebuttal to this thread.mostly because my replies to it were outright ignored by people
to address why it was wrong on a lot of things. first let's start by clearing up some misinformation about the versions.
-Clearing up misconceptions about PoC Versions-
so as many of you know in the previous thread. the games statements & lore were removed because of the PoC global version closed beta being a thing.
So. does this mean that the versions before were "beta"? No. as per the devs words in the announcement of Peak of Combat 2.0. 1.0 was never a beta
www.bilibili.com
(the site is in chinese, use google translate inorder to read the article)
in their own words:
so basically. the "closed beta" that was talked about in the previous PoC thread was only something for the global version. not the main chinese version, according to the devs the actual game was out since june of 2021. and 2.0 was, technically speaking, just an update. that was released because in the devs words the older version flopped in terms of players
so then what happened in the new update? main story wise, nothing major changed. the structure of the missions remained the same (no missions were actually removed unlike what the previous thread claimed. they were just compactified. for example mission 1 & 2 were combined in chapter 1 etc). in the new update they just removed a few minor characters that served a gameplay purpose (like the weapon master for example) they also added a few cutscenes that enrich some of the background of the story. however the gameplay was the thing that got overhauled the most. as most of you know, with the new character switch style combat system. which changed the gameplay at its core.
so with all this being said. what should be used from the old version to the new version?
-The Content that should still be usable-
I'd argue here, that anything that wasn't retconned in the new version should still be usable in scaling.
but what about the "deleted" content? you might ask
-The "deleted" content :
so I actually asked about this in a Q&A thread (ignore the part about the remake cause i originally thought that 2.0 was kind of like a remake before finding out that wasn't the case). the common answer I got in that thread is "if it's just deleted but not contradicted or retconned it's still viable for use". and i'm pretty sure this applies here. statements & feats being removed from a live service game isnt necessarily them being decanonized or scrapped. it depends on the reason they're removed.
in PoCs case. most of those statements were removed because of technical reasons as they were in limited time game modes like these 2 for example. they were part of a temporary gamemode that was bound to end sooner or later. some statements were also removed in the transition to 2.0. and if you read the section above you'd know that the transition wasnt because they didnt like the lore stuff. it was because they wanted to overhaul the gameplay. so basically all these should still be usable as long as they arent directly contradicted. as they werent removed because the devs didnt want them in the background of the setting anymore. they were mostly removed for technical reasons. so there would be no reason for them not to be usable and as i said above, 1.0 was a final release. so they werent in a tentative state.
so basically everything in 1.0 that wasnt directly stated to be retconned or contradicted should be usable in wiki profiles even if it's not currently in the game, as this is how live service games work. limited time events ending & updates do not remove canon material from the overall narrative.
now lets move on to answering potential counter arguments for all of this
-The Counter arguments-
1- June 11th release getting called a beta
i'm aware of old articles like this calling the June 11th release "the burning soul public beta". however all of these posts & articles, were infact before said release took place. almost as soon as the game got released, they stopped talking about it being a beta. if you read their articles after june 11th here. the word open beta never gets mentioned again. because of this, the devs stating that it was an official launch in a more dated post takes precedent over those old articles. furthermore their betas always have a limited timeframe. they open & then they close after a period of time. the release on june 11th never closed, suggesting it became the official release.
basically what i think happened there was that the devs changed their minds about it some time after the release, and decided to make that version the official launch instead of an open beta. that's why they said it was officially launched on June 11th 2021 in February of 2023.
regardless of what happened though newer information should always take precedent over old information.
(all the links linked here are in Chinese so you gotta use your browsers translator to read them)
2- why is the chinese version the main release instead of the global version? shouldnt we wait for the global version to release?
this is because the global is primarily a copy/paste based on the chinese version. in this video the devs confirm that the global english version will be same as the chinese one. keep in mind the chinese version was out since 2021. and even the 2.0 update is already out. it was launched on july 6th 2023.
3- are we sure that the article actually says it's an official launch and that it's not a mistranslation by google translate?
yes. the exact words used for that are "正式上线"
which if you put those in a chinese dictionary yield this result :
www.mdbg.net
正式 : which means official or formal
上线: which means to go online or put something online.
combine those two and the literal translation is something like "peak of combat was officially put online on june 11th 2021"
so basically the same meaning as official launch
4-isnt the chinese 2.0 test exactly like the closed & open betas in the global version thus making 2.0 not a regular update but something more?
the main difference between those 2 is that chinese mainland version still was playable while the global version was still unreleased. devs making servers to test new features while their games are already fully released is nothing new. alot of online game do it, for example : LoL's PBE, Star wars the old republic's test server, GGE's test server etc. so PoC starting test servers for 2.0 doesnt mean much if the main game which was running on 1.0 at time was still playable.
this wraps up the counter arguments lets move to the conclusion
-Conclusion-
-basically Peak of Combat 1.0 was never a beta or an unfinished product. this is evident by the words of the devs themselves. and as they're the ones who decide if the game is in its final released state. we go with what they say. add in the fact that the game was running for 2 years without shutting down which inconsistent with how these devs do beta testing (they usually last 2 - 4 weeks). the game was released june 11th 2021. and that release wasnt an unfinished or a tentative version in their eyes. the closed & open betas you heard about in the removal thread were exclusive to the global version. which is just a port based entirely on the main version in china
-the removed lore content even from 1.0 should still be usable in scaling if they're not directly retconned. as they were only removed for technical reasons thus they shouldn't be removed from the narrative of the world. that includes the stuff from 1.0. as we established earlier 1.0 was an official release. and the stuff in it were also official content. they weren't tentative or "concept" content.
so the proposals of this thread are as follows:
anything in Devil May Cry- Peak of Combat should be usable in vs profiles as long as it's
this is the only scope of this thread. it's here to set a precedent on what should be usable in this game and to clear up some wrong information i constantly keep hearing. this wont result in any profiles being changed for the time being however. what we're adding specifically will be discussed at a later thread. and since this thread isnt adding anything to profiles, please keep the discussion only on the scope of the thread. anything other than the scope is completely unrelated and should be discussed at a later date. so remain on the scope of the thread & do not derail.
now please keep the discussion civil & do not be biased. look at all the information presented here objectively. alot of people from the removal thread just rushed & agreed with it, even though that particular thread cites no sources, no valid explanations about 2.0, it was very very rushed & it had nothing that warrants it being passed. it's just " we DMC supporters have decided to delete everything that is related to PoC because of 2.0" which is just not how stuff like this should be done. it's been very clear to me that alot of people hate this game. but that isnt a valid reason to exclude the stuff it brings from being added to profiles just because it's a bad mobile game. also please avoid repetition in your arguments as this needlessly clogs up the thread and makes it less readable
Tally:
Agree with proposals: luffyruffy, gilver, oliver, Lephyr, bestMGQScalerEver, tanin_iver, random_helper, Executor_N0,TokiNoOuja
Disagree with the proposals: Deagonx, tony
Neutral with the proposals: Palito, Planck69,Serlock_Holmes
this first thread is made to address what should still be usable content in the game, in a way it's a rebuttal to this thread.
to address why it was wrong on a lot of things. first let's start by clearing up some misinformation about the versions.
-Clearing up misconceptions about PoC Versions-
so as many of you know in the previous thread. the games statements & lore were removed because of the PoC global version closed beta being a thing.
So. does this mean that the versions before were "beta"? No. as per the devs words in the announcement of Peak of Combat 2.0. 1.0 was never a beta
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the game was launched, officially, on the 11th of june 2021. so how did the closed beta exist if the game was never a beta? because that closed beta was only for the global release. not the actual main chinese game at the time. and the chinese version never ceased at the time of the 2.0 closed beta. infact, 2.0 released just like any other update in the chinese build. in that release the only difference between the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 and regular updates is that 2.0 had a test before they rolled it out (note that 1.0 was still playable during this time so its not like they "unlaunched" it.) this is a very common thing in online games where they have a public test server or a beta server alongside the main game to test new updates. and another difference is that they gave players a period of time to migrate to 2.0 before shutting down the 1.0 servers forever which wasnt unusual considering the update was very big. furthermore it's not like they decided to make 2.0 because the game was still unfinished. in the article above it explains. 2.0 was a thing because 1.0 failed to retain it's players & thus the devs considered it a flop.
in their own words:
so basically. the "closed beta" that was talked about in the previous PoC thread was only something for the global version. not the main chinese version, according to the devs the actual game was out since june of 2021. and 2.0 was, technically speaking, just an update. that was released because in the devs words the older version flopped in terms of players
so then what happened in the new update? main story wise, nothing major changed. the structure of the missions remained the same (no missions were actually removed unlike what the previous thread claimed. they were just compactified. for example mission 1 & 2 were combined in chapter 1 etc). in the new update they just removed a few minor characters that served a gameplay purpose (like the weapon master for example) they also added a few cutscenes that enrich some of the background of the story. however the gameplay was the thing that got overhauled the most. as most of you know, with the new character switch style combat system. which changed the gameplay at its core.
so with all this being said. what should be used from the old version to the new version?
-The Content that should still be usable-
I'd argue here, that anything that wasn't retconned in the new version should still be usable in scaling.
but what about the "deleted" content? you might ask
-The "deleted" content :
so I actually asked about this in a Q&A thread (ignore the part about the remake cause i originally thought that 2.0 was kind of like a remake before finding out that wasn't the case). the common answer I got in that thread is "if it's just deleted but not contradicted or retconned it's still viable for use". and i'm pretty sure this applies here. statements & feats being removed from a live service game isnt necessarily them being decanonized or scrapped. it depends on the reason they're removed.
in PoCs case. most of those statements were removed because of technical reasons as they were in limited time game modes like these 2 for example. they were part of a temporary gamemode that was bound to end sooner or later. some statements were also removed in the transition to 2.0. and if you read the section above you'd know that the transition wasnt because they didnt like the lore stuff. it was because they wanted to overhaul the gameplay. so basically all these should still be usable as long as they arent directly contradicted. as they werent removed because the devs didnt want them in the background of the setting anymore. they were mostly removed for technical reasons. so there would be no reason for them not to be usable and as i said above, 1.0 was a final release. so they werent in a tentative state.
so basically everything in 1.0 that wasnt directly stated to be retconned or contradicted should be usable in wiki profiles even if it's not currently in the game, as this is how live service games work. limited time events ending & updates do not remove canon material from the overall narrative.
now lets move on to answering potential counter arguments for all of this
-The Counter arguments-
1- June 11th release getting called a beta
i'm aware of old articles like this calling the June 11th release "the burning soul public beta". however all of these posts & articles, were infact before said release took place. almost as soon as the game got released, they stopped talking about it being a beta. if you read their articles after june 11th here. the word open beta never gets mentioned again. because of this, the devs stating that it was an official launch in a more dated post takes precedent over those old articles. furthermore their betas always have a limited timeframe. they open & then they close after a period of time. the release on june 11th never closed, suggesting it became the official release.
basically what i think happened there was that the devs changed their minds about it some time after the release, and decided to make that version the official launch instead of an open beta. that's why they said it was officially launched on June 11th 2021 in February of 2023.
regardless of what happened though newer information should always take precedent over old information.
(all the links linked here are in Chinese so you gotta use your browsers translator to read them)
2- why is the chinese version the main release instead of the global version? shouldnt we wait for the global version to release?
this is because the global is primarily a copy/paste based on the chinese version. in this video the devs confirm that the global english version will be same as the chinese one. keep in mind the chinese version was out since 2021. and even the 2.0 update is already out. it was launched on july 6th 2023.
meaning that whatever the global version brings, it will be in the main chinese version first. so waiting for the "official release" is like waiting for just a localization. it will most likely add nothing new in the actual game except an english translation that shouldnt even take precedent over the source material. (also from what i've seen from the betas. the english translation is filled with grammatical errors & mistranslations, so unless they fix that, statements from the english version shouldnt be used).
3- are we sure that the article actually says it's an official launch and that it's not a mistranslation by google translate?
yes. the exact words used for that are "正式上线"
which if you put those in a chinese dictionary yield this result :
MDBG English to Chinese dictionary
English to Chinese dictionary with Mandarin Pinyin & Handwriting Recognition - learn Chinese faster with MDBG!
www.mdbg.net
上线: which means to go online or put something online.
combine those two and the literal translation is something like "peak of combat was officially put online on june 11th 2021"
so basically the same meaning as official launch
4-isnt the chinese 2.0 test exactly like the closed & open betas in the global version thus making 2.0 not a regular update but something more?
the main difference between those 2 is that chinese mainland version still was playable while the global version was still unreleased. devs making servers to test new features while their games are already fully released is nothing new. alot of online game do it, for example : LoL's PBE, Star wars the old republic's test server, GGE's test server etc. so PoC starting test servers for 2.0 doesnt mean much if the main game which was running on 1.0 at time was still playable.
this wraps up the counter arguments lets move to the conclusion
-Conclusion-
-basically Peak of Combat 1.0 was never a beta or an unfinished product. this is evident by the words of the devs themselves. and as they're the ones who decide if the game is in its final released state. we go with what they say. add in the fact that the game was running for 2 years without shutting down which inconsistent with how these devs do beta testing (they usually last 2 - 4 weeks). the game was released june 11th 2021. and that release wasnt an unfinished or a tentative version in their eyes. the closed & open betas you heard about in the removal thread were exclusive to the global version. which is just a port based entirely on the main version in china
-the removed lore content even from 1.0 should still be usable in scaling if they're not directly retconned. as they were only removed for technical reasons thus they shouldn't be removed from the narrative of the world. that includes the stuff from 1.0. as we established earlier 1.0 was an official release. and the stuff in it were also official content. they weren't tentative or "concept" content.
so the proposals of this thread are as follows:
anything in Devil May Cry- Peak of Combat should be usable in vs profiles as long as it's
- in or was in the main chinese version. this extends to the previous 1.0 version
- it isn't directly retconned in later updates. and by retcon I mean directly or indirectly contradicted by the game itself. simply being removed doesn't mean it's a retcon
this is the only scope of this thread. it's here to set a precedent on what should be usable in this game and to clear up some wrong information i constantly keep hearing. this wont result in any profiles being changed for the time being however. what we're adding specifically will be discussed at a later thread. and since this thread isnt adding anything to profiles, please keep the discussion only on the scope of the thread. anything other than the scope is completely unrelated and should be discussed at a later date. so remain on the scope of the thread & do not derail.
now please keep the discussion civil & do not be biased. look at all the information presented here objectively. alot of people from the removal thread just rushed & agreed with it, even though that particular thread cites no sources, no valid explanations about 2.0, it was very very rushed & it had nothing that warrants it being passed. it's just " we DMC supporters have decided to delete everything that is related to PoC because of 2.0" which is just not how stuff like this should be done. it's been very clear to me that alot of people hate this game. but that isnt a valid reason to exclude the stuff it brings from being added to profiles just because it's a bad mobile game. also please avoid repetition in your arguments as this needlessly clogs up the thread and makes it less readable
Tally:
Agree with proposals: luffyruffy, gilver, oliver, Lephyr, bestMGQScalerEver, tanin_iver, random_helper, Executor_N0,TokiNoOuja
Disagree with the proposals: Deagonx, tony
Neutral with the proposals: Palito, Planck69,Serlock_Holmes
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