Devil May Cry: Abilities removal

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Some feats from the novels (secondary canon) in the Demon physiology page contradict the games and anime (primary canon).
Note: I consider the anime to be superior canon to the novels because it is mentioned in DMC5's "History of DMC" recap

Your personal considerations are irrelevant.

Devil May Cry

For detailed information about this franchise, visit the Devil May Cry Wiki. The plot of Devil May Cry follows the Demon Hunter Dante, the son of a legendary demon who sealed off the demon world named Sparda and a human named Eva. Devil May Cry Volume 1: Set a few years before DMC3, the novel...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Just because something is mentioned was not mentioned in a short summary recap, doesn't degrade it's canonicity, that's asinine.

Also you seem to have a messed up definition of "primary" and "secondary" canon. Get it fixxed.

The latter statement is contradicted several times in the games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5) and anime when Lady kills demons with normal weapons. Lady is not a demon, she cannot use demonic energy to amp up the power of her weapons, she kills demons with normal bullets.
Also Nico hurt a demon with a simple cigar ( 1:58)

Horseshit.

By no metric is Lady normal, first and foremost she is main cast. She can do **** all she wants because of rule of cool.
Second, normal humans don't carry entire armory's worth of ammunition inside their ass, she never even reloads her rocket launcher, has endless amount of gun magazines , replaceable guns and buttload of grenades, has performed feats of speed, skill, strength, durability some lesser demons in the series can only dream of.
Surviving her own point blank rocket explosions, insane acrobatics and jumps, fast enough to dodge Trish's lightning and shoot her lightning bullets out of the air. Casually mauling lesser demons with her heavyass Kalina Ann bayonet.

And somehow despite all this people find her surviving demonic ailments and killing demonic threats as some sort of outlier or inconsistency is bizzare.
Btw it's already established she uses silver bare minimum for neutralizing supernatural threats.

Your entire argument is hogwash, her feats and accomplishments are no representatives of normal humanity, she is special since she is part of main cast, same goes for other humans in main caste like Nico or Kyrie. Their feats of power and/or resistance are not anti-feats for demons.

"Empathic Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Type 2 & 3), and Aura: The mere presence of demons causes despair, fear and insanity,[46][47][48] Victims can go insane with the mere sight or even immediate and impending knowledge that demons can arrive. Victims affected like this are very prone to hurting themselves and even killing themselves."

This is again contradicted several times in the games and anime. Lady, Nico and Kyrie (

Already addressed this above.

They are not an anti-feat of any kind, every human in the DMC verse isn't some weakling who will blow over like paper in wind when faced with demonic energy.
Different people have differing levels of resistance.

And also if you had actually read the novel scans you quoted above, you will see a human named Grue survived the suicide insanity cognition of demons even as other humans were eating their and their neigbours eyes out, his first encounter with demons in the novel he was frozen still with complete lapse in consiousness, but here has enough mental fortitude to not only survive getting "cthullu'd" but also mount a suicide counter offensive with grenade "COD4MW martyrdom" style against the demons and Gilver himself.

Stop using feats of resistance performed by main cast in game as some sort of anti-feat for demons, because even in novels you will find similar instances of exceptional humans.
Your entire assertion seems to be based on half assed knowledge and half-assed logic wrapped up in bad faith arguements.

Ok here the feats do not come from the novels (except the first) but from the games, but they are just descriptions/bios which say that these demons have poison and acid manip. We do not see Dante resisting it and there is no statements that say that Dante resist it (the descriptions even make it clear the opposite and warn Dante). The anime confirms that Dante is not resistant to acid because he protects himself against it and dodges it multiples times ( 18:11)

Okay first and foremost, unless you are actually implying God tier and high tier or even mid tier characters in lore have ******* shit tier fodder resistances because game descriptions are warning player to be wary of enemy abilities? You do realise playable characters are just proxies players, giving them tips and tricks on how to deal with enemies in games.
By your logic even Void Mundus and abstract demon gods like Despair Embodied can be extrapolated to be affected by ******* shit tier fodder demon poison of biological nature lmao.
Also you can extrapolate same descriptions to upgrade fodder demons to Go Tier statistics or downgrade God Tiers to fodder tier stats, because some descriptions also warn "characters" of some fodder demon's strength and speed.

Your entire logic is stupid.

Also before you scream game mechanics

Why are Game Mechanics allowed on canon profiles?

‘ello everyone, I don’t think I’m going to be making any friends with this thread lol It’s come to my attention that quite a few profiles allow specific abilities that have only been demonstrated in-game, but not in-canon, and there seems to be a lack of information and clarification (from...

vsbattles.com

Dante literally says the artifact's magic worked on him ( 19:35, 20:20).
Dante was mind controlled and won the poker game because he was affected by the supernatural luck of the artifact, and he is not dead because he won the poker game (only those who lose against the owner of the artifact die).
There is no resistance for Dante here.

If you actually had the honesty to watch the episode properly, you would clearly understand that Dante consciously and willingly allowed the artifact to possess him to get a boost in luck.

 

[Deagonx]

Horseshit.

If you actually had the honesty to watch the episode properly

Your entire logic is stupid.

This is an entirely inappropriate way to conduct a discussion. You've been here a long time and you know better than this. People are allowed to disagree with you without being subjected to ridicule and insults. Consider this a warning, don't do it again.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Your personal considerations are irrelevant.

Devil May Cry

For detailed information about this franchise, visit the Devil May Cry Wiki. The plot of Devil May Cry follows the Demon Hunter Dante, the son of a legendary demon who sealed off the demon world named Sparda and a human named Eva. Devil May Cry Volume 1: Set a few years before DMC3, the novel...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Just because something is mentioned was not mentioned in a short summary recap, doesn't degrade it's canonicity, that's asinine.

Also you seem to have a messed up definition of "primary" and "secondary" canon. Get it fixxed.

Horseshit.

By no metric is Lady normal, first and foremost she is main cast. She can do **** all she wants because of rule of cool.
Second, normal humans don't carry entire armory's worth of ammunition inside their ass, she never even reloads her rocket launcher, has endless amount of gun magazines , replaceable guns and buttload of grenades, has performed feats of speed, skill, strength, durability some lesser demons in the series can only dream of.
Surviving her own point blank rocket explosions, insane acrobatics and jumps, fast enough to dodge Trish's lightning and shoot her lightning bullets out of the air. Casually mauling lesser demons with her heavyass Kalina Ann bayonet.

And somehow despite all this people find her surviving demonic ailments and killing demonic threats as some sort of outlier or inconsistency is bizzare.
Btw it's already established she uses silver bare minimum for neutralizing supernatural threats.

Your entire argument is hogwash, her feats and accomplishments are no representatives of normal humanity, she is special since she is part of main cast, same goes for other humans in main caste like Nico or Kyrie. Their feats of power and/or resistance are not anti-feats for demons.


Already addressed this above.

They are not an anti-feat of any kind, every human in the DMC verse isn't some weakling who will blow over like paper in wind when faced with demonic energy.
Different people have differing levels of resistance.

And also if you had actually read the novel scans you quoted above, you will see a human named Grue survived the suicide insanity cognition of demons even as other humans were eating their and their neigbours eyes out, his first encounter with demons in the novel he was frozen still with complete lapse in consiousness, but here has enough mental fortitude to not only survive getting "cthullu'd" but also mount a suicide counter offensive with grenade "COD4MW martyrdom" style against the demons and Gilver himself.

Stop using feats of resistance performed by main cast in game as some sort of anti-feat for demons, because even in novels you will find similar instances of exceptional humans.
Your entire assertion seems to be based on half assed knowledge and half-assed logic wrapped up in bad faith arguements.


Okay first and foremost, unless you are actually implying God tier and high tier or even mid tier characters in lore have ******* shit tier fodder resistances because game descriptions are warning player to be wary of enemy abilities? You do realise playable characters are just proxies players, giving them tips and tricks on how to deal with enemies in games.
By your logic even Void Mundus and abstract demon gods like Despair Embodied can be extrapolated to be affected by ******* shit tier fodder demon poison of biological nature lmao.
Also you can extrapolate same descriptions to upgrade fodder demons to Go Tier statistics or downgrade God Tiers to fodder tier stats, because some descriptions also warn "characters" of some fodder demon's strength and speed.

Your entire logic is stupid.

Also before you scream game mechanics

Why are Game Mechanics allowed on canon profiles?

‘ello everyone, I don’t think I’m going to be making any friends with this thread lol It’s come to my attention that quite a few profiles allow specific abilities that have only been demonstrated in-game, but not in-canon, and there seems to be a lack of information and clarification (from...

vsbattles.com

If you actually had the honesty to watch the episode properly, you would clearly understand that Dante consciously and willingly allowed the artifact to possess him to get a boost in luck.

Sorry but I'm not going to read that lmao.
I don't want to waste my time with this kind of comment.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah not really convinced by the OP’s arguments here, I disagree with it.

 

[Huesito88]

Yeah not really convinced by the OP’s arguments here, I disagree with it.

Thoughts on the canon standards regarding this?

 

[Deagonx]

Thoughts on the canon standards regarding this?

There's not really any controversy about this. Regardless of how we characterize the novels, the video games are always going to be the primary canon.

 

[Armorchompy]

May i get a summary on the disagreements?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

May i get a summary on the disagreements?

1) Novel claimed by OP to be secondary is actually a prequel novel, not a written counterpart to some game, i.e it's primary canon.

2) OP is trying to use characters from main cast who have displayed varying degrees of resistance to demonic ailments as some sort of anti-feat against demons and their abilities.

3) OP using in-game description addressed to players via using playable characters as proxy to claim anti-feats, even though characters in lore have survived against worse hax from superior foes possessing more potent and complex hax abilities. Not even considering other bizzare implications of taking game descriptions hyper literally and ignoring lore and context.

4) OP using instance of an character willingly allowing themselves to get afflicted by a mind hax of a fodder tier trinket to obtain a temporary boost in luck department for a card game, which they otherwise would have resisted, also said trinket not comparing to beings/weapons/artefacts which have more potent mind hax which have failed against said character.

 

[Deagonx]

May i get a summary on the disagreements?

Point 1: The books saying Demons are impervious to all man-made weapons are contradicted by the games, where Lady (a human) can kill demons with guns and even a cigar, and the demons getting gored by a van hitting them.

Counterpoints: Lady has superhuman feats (not sure how this affects her bullets and cigar but okay), and Lady doesn't fully kill them. Also one of the books says she uses silver bullets which works on demons. Then someone posted a scan from the Chinese Mobile DMC game where a weapon material is shown to be "the soul of an ancient demon." The argument is that Lady's weapons are enhanced by demonic energy (this seems extremely far fetched, nothing says Lady's guns in the main stories are made of something like that).

Point 2: The fear manipulation feats from the books are contradicted by various instances where humans are in the presence of demons but don't get scared, such as Lady, Nico, Kyrie, Morrison, and Patty, and other random humans.

Counterpoints: Lady has supernatural feats. Nothing about the others. The argument aside from that has revolved around whether the novels/manga hold the same canon status.

Point 3: Dante's alleged posion/acid resistance is seemingly contradicted by him needing to block/dodge a demon's poison/acid spitting, as well as game descriptions that the poison/acid is dangerous and should be avoided.

Counterpoints: Dante blocking/dodging doesn't mean that he isn't resistant, and/or that demon is just more powerful than the poison/acid he resisted in the novels.

Point 4: Dante's resistance to Probability Manip, Empathic Manip, and Death Manip come from the idea that he can resist the powers of the Poker Demon, but in the story where this comes from Dante explicitly says that the magic worked on him twice. He didn't die because he won the game, and it only kills you if you lose against the owner of the artifact, which Dante never did.

Counterpoints: He should've died, and he willingly let the artifact possess him. (although, nothing says he did this by deactivating some resistance, rather than just intentionally putting himself in harms way).

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm neutral on the point about Acid, agree with OP on the relic resistances, and the fear/madness Manipulation makes me just shake my head with no clue who to agree with.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Yeah not really convinced by the OP’s arguments here, I disagree with it.

Even with regular humans who are not affected by the mere presence of demons? Or even by Dante explicitly saying who was affected by King's artifact?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Huesito88 You mean in regards to the novels? I don’t really see how it just disregards the feats when the novels is a tie in to several games and Itsuno and Kamiya have supervised them in the past.

@Ser_Hakim_Dayne If your main argument is Lady, who’s the furthest from a normal human being due to her own blood being what sealed the demon world away from the human world in the Teminnigru, yeah not really convinced. Dante sounds more like he just let it happen just to catch a demon off guard.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Agree with everything in the OP for now, will read through the replies after I finish eating lunch

 

[Thehunter077]

Bruh, DMC fans are probably some of the worst here

Sorry if I being rude, but you are the one who against Itsuno here by saying novel are secondary canon, while Itsuno have to look at all the novels and approved of being canon and nothing he says novels are secondary canon, this is just a blantant fact which somehow you didn't accept... So who's worse here?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

@Huesito88 You mean in regards to the novels? I don’t really see how it just disregards the feats when the novels is a tie in to several games and Itsuno and Kamiya have supervised them in the past.

@Ser_Hakim_Dayne If your main argument is Lady, who’s the furthest from a normal human being due to her own blood being what sealed the demon world away from the human world in the Teminnigru, yeah not really convinced. Dante sounds more like he just let it happen just to catch a demon off guard.

I don't really know what you're talking about. My argument against the passive fear/madness of the low/mid tier demons in the novels is that regular humans in the games and anime (and I'm not even talking about Lady) are not affected by any fear/madness in the presence of thé demons. There are a plethora of examples of this in my post.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Sorry if I being rude, but you are the one who against Itsuno here by saying novel are secondary canon, while Itsuno have to look at all the novels and approved of being canon and nothing he says novels are secondary canon, this is just a blantant fact which somehow you didn't accept... So who's worse here?

I explain it here:

That doesn't mean that inconsistencies are impossible. If the novels and the games contradict each other, a choice must be made to determine who is right and who is wrong, and the safest choice is the games because it is the original material. Demons in the novel have passive fear/madness, but not in the games and anime (as proven in my post).

I just said that there are inconsistencies between novels and games and that the best choice is to favor games. Whether the novels are secondary or primary canons will not change the inconsistencies about the passive fear/madness.

Also tbh, Itsuno just confirmed that the novels are canon, not that they're canon as much as the games. Saying that the novels are not secondary canon just because the term was not explicitly used by Itsuno is a weak argument (almost no authors use this term to begin with, so according to your logic secondary canon hardly exists). So yes, the novels are secondary canon, whether you like it or not.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Mhm. Mhm. So anyway, did you know in DMC5 but V’s perspective, making it canon, and literally within the game’s plot, Dante outright displays this fear aura? Huh. Wild. Seems like the return of a consistent feature mentioned in guides and descriptions about the Demon World itself across multiple games, and Demons in multiple novels, directly showing up in the latest set of stories by the people who canonized all of that and directly had it in mind for their story. Crazy, isn’t it?

Replying to this first.

Incorrect. Nothing here implies fearhax.
If my brother who I know is way stronger than me, who I am coming to out of desperation, but who I know could absolutely kill me if he thinks I'm an enemy, decides to partially DT and show his scary eyes, implying that he's angry and might kill me,
I'd get scared too.

That's not the other person using fearhax, that's V having basic survival instincts and being able to read the room.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Also you seem to have a messed up definition of "primary" and "secondary" canon. Get it fixxed.

Incorrect. Devil May Cry is a game series first and foremost. The novels are canon yes, but their contradictions should be taken with more of a grain of salt than the games. The director declaring the novels "more or equally canon" does not affect this. If we want to discuss authorial intent (which I am all for, believe me), I highly doubt Itsuno wants us to believe that the average Empusa can fearhax any human they so much as look at, and that that was happening to all those normal soldiers shooting at them.

By no metric is Lady normal, first and foremost she is main cast. She can do **** all she wants because of rule of cool.
Second, normal humans don't carry entire armory's worth of ammunition inside their ass, she never even reloads her rocket launcher, has endless amount of gun magazines , replaceable guns and buttload of grenades, has performed feats of speed, skill, strength, durability some lesser demons in the series can only dream of.
Surviving her own point blank rocket explosions, insane acrobatics and jumps, fast enough to dodge Trish's lightning and shoot her lightning bullets out of the air. Casually mauling lesser demons with her heavyass Kalina Ann bayonet.

In the Devil May Cry universe, yes they absolutely can. Because Lady is a normal human. The strongest of them, probably, but clearly the human ceiling is higher in DMC. There is nothing that implies she should have more resistance to whatever supposed hax every demon is constantly pumping out than Kyrie.
Unless you want to argue that just training enough to get that strong also gives you resistances. We don't allow that for Dragon Ball, we shouldn't allow that here.

They are not an anti-feat of any kind, every human in the DMC verse isn't some weakling who will blow over like paper in wind when faced with demonic energy.
Different people have differing levels of resistance.

And also if you had actually read the novel scans you quoted above, you will see a human named Grue survived the suicide insanity cognition of demons even as other humans were eating their and their neigbours eyes out, his first encounter with demons in the novel he was frozen still with complete lapse in consiousness, but here has enough mental fortitude to not only survive getting "cthullu'd" but also mount a suicide counter offensive with grenade "COD4MW martyrdom" style against the demons and Gilver himself.

Stop using feats of resistance performed by main cast in game as some sort of anti-feat for demons, because even in novels you will find similar instances of exceptional humans.
Your entire assertion seems to be based on half assed knowledge and half-assed logic wrapped up in bad faith arguements.

Exceptionally strong humans, not some sort of magical mutant. If exceptionally strong humans can survive this supposed hax just by being strong, then it's not hax.
Much less fearhax, which already is too often applied without nearly enough justification.