- 32,835
- 38,108
Would you be kind enough to elaborate exactly on what these concerns are?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Devil May Cry - About PoC
- Thread starter Sevil Natas
- Start date
- Status
- 784
- 653
Okay but one small issue, we didn’t bring up scans in this thread only some one making a joke about it who had also agreed on keeping poc’s stuff.
- 32,835
- 38,108
Kinda what I'm thinking right now. Nobody posted scans anywhere here.
You wanna discuss legitimacy? That can be left for another thread, but not today.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,122
Yeah, I agree for now.
I would like to point out one more thing, it is not enough for this that secondary and tertiary canon sources not to contradict the primary canon source, secondary and tertiary canon sources must also be supported by the first canon, this is an important detail. If not supported, the wiki does not use them, I wanted to add this too.
- 8,804
- 2,863
While I agree that we shouldn't use deleted content (events that never show again, forums, twits, etc) the wiki doesn't treat material that way and examples of that are Destiny and LoL.
If you disagree I recommend making a thread to implement guidelines otherwise staff pretty much allows this as seen in the thread linked in the OP.
Regarding canocity, it hasn't changed the game is as canon as DMC5 despite being a shit tier game.
And finally about the authenticity of the scans. We had users play and get the scans we used during the previous PoC era... Literally the only reason we used them is because we know they are legit and even recorded them. Authenticity is not a problem unless someone is talking about scans that were never implemented/used/shown.
If you disagree I recommend making a thread to implement guidelines otherwise staff pretty much allows this as seen in the thread linked in the OP.
Regarding canocity, it hasn't changed the game is as canon as DMC5 despite being a shit tier game.
And finally about the authenticity of the scans. We had users play and get the scans we used during the previous PoC era... Literally the only reason we used them is because we know they are legit and even recorded them. Authenticity is not a problem unless someone is talking about scans that were never implemented/used/shown.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,122
I noticed something. Whether or not the sources are deleted is not my issue at the moment, but is the content of the PoC (i.e. the content of the tertiary canon) supported by the primary canon, i.e. the main game? Because at this point, it is not enough for these sources not to contradict each other, and the contents in the tertiary canon must also be supported by the primary canon.
If what is sources in the tertiary canon is not supported by the first canon, it cannot be used (yes, I just realized I explained it above, I'm stupid.)
If what is sources in the tertiary canon is not supported by the first canon, it cannot be used (yes, I just realized I explained it above, I'm stupid.)
- 7,882
- 14,932
What do you mean by this?
- 10,332
- 11,850
PoC is officially accepted as part of primary canon on the site.
- 7,882
- 14,932
The site as in our wiki?
- 10,332
- 11,850
Yeah.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,453
Is there a basic summary of the reasoning somewhere?
- 7,882
- 14,932
Okay. Georr is questioning why that is. KLOL's comment is that it's supported by the interviews and intro, I am wondering what exactly that entailed.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,122
Yeah i talked to him, I just thought PoC wasn't primary canon for a moment.
- 10,332
- 11,850
Georr is talking about my point regarding tertiary canon as per our standards. I personally find PoC tertiary canon, but officially on the wiki, is considered primary.
Edit: Ninja'd
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,453
All of that just sounds like textbook tertiary canon to me, but this isn't the point of this thread so I'll save it for later.
- 2,361
- 1,309
What's this about it needing to be supported by other canon? As in all details have to appear twice, or references to the events? It seems there are a few things which don't do either of those things which are still used on the Wiki, like the God of War comics and novels, much of the Star Wars EU, Bleach's CFYOW novel, etc. If it is about similarities, then there are definitely some overlaps in the lore in Peak of Combat and existing lore, with the names, binding of fates, Pluto, etc. It was clearly made with a good amount of understanding of DMC's existing lore, and clearly aimed to build on things that had already been mentioned. The only major lore detail that it uniquely added that wasn't alluded to prior was the nine-dimensional souls, as far as I can tell. And weird dimensional stuff is definitely present throughout DMC.
- 10,332
- 11,850
Read our canon standards. Whataboutism is not an argument.
This isn't even part of this thread.
Peeps, read the OP. This is about whether PoC stuff that isn't accessible anymore in-game can still be used for our profiles as long as they don't contradict stuff from the game.
Me bringing up the fact I believe it's tertiary was for the purpose of showing how our rules don't disallow the usage of these things, even in the worst case scenario.
- 2,361
- 1,309
I was just asking. Calm down. My bringing up examples is more a matter of precedent than whataboutism. And from what I can tell opponents of the verse are arguing that it needs extra support in addition to being canon, that's what I was responding to.
- 10,332
- 11,850
I am calm. Don't mistake straightforwardness with exasperation.
No one has truly made an argument here, besides clarification about our canon standards (born out of a misunderstanding in the first place).
- 2,361
- 1,309
Okay, what you intend as straightforwardness is read on my end as passive-aggressiveness, but you have every reason to be on edge here, so okay.
Someone above said it needed support from other canon and seems to be disregarding it as non-canon for that reason.
It seems as if it's still canon, regardless. So it should still be usable.
- 10,332
- 11,850
Because those are our standards for tertiary canon. As I have explained, PoC ain't tertiary canon (as of now, on the site), thus said discussion was unneeded.
- 32,835
- 38,108
He didn't know until I and Tony talked to him, so it's all good.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,122
I thought PoC was the tertiary canon, that's why I expressed it.
Of course you can argue about PoC being primary or tertiary canon, there were already people who wanted to address that later, but if that's what you're talking about, that's resolved.
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #66
whether some scans are real or not isnt in the scope of this thread. read the proposals carefully next time
we're not adding anything to any profile here. we're just setting a precedent on what should be usable in the games scaling, naturally we're not gonna use stuff that was obviously fabricated
also please elaborate on why you dont support using deleted content. as i explained in the OP stuff that was removed out of technical reasons, like in limited time games modes & updates, have no reason to be excluded out of the narrative just for that.. & there's Q&A thread that supports that aswell
- 3,693
- 2,061
Put me in disagreement with this
I dont think deleted content still can be use even there are no contradiction with the naration, but by default logic if they delete it that mean they not need that or it just some "error" or some mistake
I dont know if this relevant but in here , we even not use scan that is valid but already have no source or in other word "have been deleted"
So yeah i dont think some deleted content can be use
I dont think deleted content still can be use even there are no contradiction with the naration, but by default logic if they delete it that mean they not need that or it just some "error" or some mistake
I dont know if this relevant but in here , we even not use scan that is valid but already have no source or in other word "have been deleted"
So yeah i dont think some deleted content can be use
- 10,332
- 11,850
What about limited time events? Should they be considered "errors" or some such? Because these are common tactics employed by mobile games. Ad has been noted, we also have precedent such as Destiny and LoL.
We also have another precedent, which I can advocate for more effectively, which is D&D. This profile is based largely on a long deleted web enhancement for the game originally published by Wizards of the Coast back in 2003-ish. The article got completely deleted by the change of editions in 2008, from 3e to 4e.
Though, it is to be noted, WotC themselves provided archives of these articles for a couple of years (2009 fully til they were deleted again sometime in 2013). These has since been deleted also, though large amount of content from said archives are still recognized in the editions since (the character Meepo in itself appeared once more in 5e). So it follows our guidelines that, as long as the information is still recognized and not contradicted, they should be fine to use.
- 13,218
- 21,034
I was actually gonna say pretty much what Lephyr said. I wouldn’t consider deleted content from stuff like limited-time events to be deleted due to being some kind of “error”
I know a thing or two about this stuff, I play Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle
- 3,693
- 2,061
Is that a limited time event that same as some mmorpg game or literally being deleted??
What i see this is update version from 1.0 to 2.0, soo if there are no that content in 2.0 version, i think it being literally deleted because they dont need that content
- 10,332
- 11,850
Both. I can also provide another example from D&D with literal limited events that were since both discontinued and deleted, yet would still qualify for our standards (Living Greyhawk campaign, from 2000 to 2007, officially held by WotC during their Living RPG days, effectively shutdown the organization and accessing said data is extremely difficult, as many of these events were done globally and not that well documented, yet were largely still recognized to happen among the various Dragon and Dungeon Magazines of the time, with information that expanded existing pieces of lore that we still use on our files, such as the Demogorgon profile with its Savage Tide campaign)
I believe @Sevil Natas can provide scans of usage of multiple things from 1.0 still being recognized in 2.0, thus satisfying the requirement of it "not being contradicted".
- 3,693
- 2,061
What you mean by both??? Basically i say is that being deleted because it limited time event, or literally being deleted??? Because i dont think the version of 1.0 is limited time event
I dont mean for "not being contradicted". I mean if it literally being deletes by the developer even if it not contradicted why we still use thaf scan??? The developer themself delete that content from the canon game, even if that not contradicted with the game it self, it not right if we use the content that already being delete
- 6,135
- 4,213
Your disagreement is noted.
- 10,332
- 11,850
That it applies to both cases. If the information is still recognized and wasn't contradicted, fine to use (and currently aligns with both our standards and precedent set by these standards, as far as I can see)
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
If stuff that were before are still in the game then there is no reason not to accept them. If however in the new version they are not in and they were in the old one for all intents and purposes they literally don't exist. It's nothing like a limited event because it was something that was made to be in the game and now it's not. Basically limited events are like that by their nature. Here the whole game changed and those parts whichever those are were deleted. So if they are not present anymore there is zero reason to use them as they don't exist in any form in the game.
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
I think it's currently falling into a bit of a grey area? A staff thread is propably needed for this.
I would like some clarification whether the stuff deleted were main game stuff or event stuff.
I would like some clarification whether the stuff deleted were main game stuff or event stuff.
- 10,332
- 11,850
The standards support his point. If there's literally zero mention of stuff from 1.0 (which is why I'm suggesting for Sevii to bring scans of the contrary), then they would effectively be retconned out.
That's why I brought up our tertiary canon standards. They need to still be acknowledged in some way.
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
Lephyr help me understand if you have read more because I don't have that much time. The stuff this thread intends to include is main story stuff that are just not there anymore or just stuff that were there to support an event and now are not? In the first case without knowing the standards to my mind it's much more logical to not include stuff that are still there. Basically stuff that were main story back then and now are not are considered to not exist for all intents and purposes beyond maybe giving some small clarifications but big stuff like new people, areas and items I don't think should be in. If it was an event that fits in the timeline of the games but it was just limited and now over and it is for sure canon I see no reason not to include it.
- 784
- 653
I see, well gotta wait for sevil to respond then.
- Status
Similar threads
