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Devil May Cry: Abilities removal

How about changing it to Activated Fear Hax and listing Supernatural Willpower as a weakness to it?
I did had that in mind cuz Dante shows you can do it off and on. Tho I thought supernatural willpower already considerate a possible counter
 
How about changing it to Activated Fear Hax and listing Supernatural Willpower as a weakness to it?
A soldier doesn't have Supernatural Willpower. They have, at best, Pretty Aight Willpower
 
Or simply put, not every demon radiates feat that way

Just index the ones that have done so, either passively or actively and move on
 
aren't the Empusae essentially immune to the army's gunfire in that one scene of DMCV? Those guns would normally have much greater penetration than the handguns/shotguns Lady uses.
I found the scene in question. They definitely manage to kill one of the Empusa, but overall it's not that effective.
 
Argument doesn't matter cuz nothing says fodder demons are impervious. Just move it as extension of their immortality cux it says can't be killed
 
There’s outright a white expanding aura-like focus behind Dante, and when V experiences “the chill” an Aura is literally enveloping his body. Furthermore, when Dante did this, V was actually “glad,” as it showed Dante had retained his edge since Dante last defeated him. As in, V explicitly was not reading the room. But even if you wanted to double down, it literally doesn’t matter because Urizen has his own feat in the same manga chapters later.

Fearhax simply is a consistent feature of DMC.
There is a violently massive difference between aura and fearhax.
There is also a massive difference between an artistic visual effect and fearhax. Every time a manga uses an aura-like effect, it doesn't mean magic is pumping wildly off the character.

showed that Dante retained his edge
V was not reading the room

These are mutually exclusive.

Also, having checked the Urizen scan, it is never stated to be fearhax. In fact, V specifically says it's his power.
Again, there's a difference between your aura demonstrating that you're powerful and dangerous, and actually manipulating fear itself independently.
Something too many people on this wiki, you included, don't seem to recognize.
 
There is a violently massive difference between aura and fearhax.
no there isn't
aura covers fear hax
 
no there isn't
aura covers fear hax
Then call it Aura and not fearhax.
If it makes someone scared because the person is scary and dangerous to them and that is displayed by their aura, then it's just aura. 99.99% of Aura showings do this; they are not fearhax.

Fearhax implies that it would work on anyone by controlling their fear directly, even if they knowingly have no other reason to fear him, which we have never seen occur in Devil May Cry.
 
If it makes someone scared because the person is scary and dangerous to them and that is displayed by their aura, then it's just aura. 99.99% of Aura showings do this; they are not fearhax.
yeah no


a lot of characters from these verses literally have fear hax listed on their profiles because of their aura
its not just aura, its also fear hax
this is just simply not true
 
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Usually listing aura as fearhax requires wank a good amount of evidence that it's supernaturally inflicting fear rather than just sort of imposing your presence on someone who's weaker. For example Hunter X Hunter (and from my limited understanding, Bleach) have aura that does have a straight-up fear effect, and you need to be versed in the same power to resist it in-verse.
 
yeah no


a lot of characters from these verses literally have fear hax listed on their profiles because of their aura
its not just aura, its also fear hax
this is just simply not true
If they have it listed because they have big auras, then the pages are wrong.

Also As Nodt literally has fear manip as his power

He doesnt just have it as a consequence of how aura is portrayed in his verse.

I was literally planning to use As Nodt as an illustration of my point. All of the other characters listed as examples on the fear manip page (that I know of) also have fear as an actual power of theirs.

You do not get fear manip just for scaring someone, any more than you get Mind Manip for convincing someone to change their mind
 
Usually listing aura as fearhax requires wank a good amount of evidence that it's supernaturally inflicting fear rather than just sort of imposing your presence on someone who's weaker. For example Hunter X Hunter (and from my limited understanding, Bleach) have aura that does have a straight-up fear effect, and you need to be versed in the same power to resist it in-verse.
This

Exactly this

Hunter X Hunter also has many people get scared of another person's aura because it shows that they're big strong.

Characters that do NOT have fear manip, because that would require having the specific power to control fear itself.
 
Overall neutral, but I'll say this:
"Superhuman Physical Characteristics: Even the most simple type of demon is easily capable of tearing humans apart, cutting them in half with a single blow, and posing a threat to entire sections of a city. Demons are also confirmed to be impervious to all man-made weapons in existence.[21]"

The latter statement is contradicted several times in the games (DMC3, DMC4, DMC5) and anime when Lady kills demons with normal weapons. Lady is not a demon, she cannot use demonic energy to amp up the power of her weapons, she kills demons with normal bullets.
Also Nico hurt a demon with a simple cigar ( 1:58)

Lady shot DMC3 Dante in the face and made him bleed. One drop of 75% diluted Sparda blood with no devil trigger > 99.9% of the demon world, and Dante is 50%. She's Mary Stu lol
 
Most of the OP consists of an assumption about different degrees of canon with no basis. The novels are officially confirmed canon, there is no evidence of these assumed different levels of canon, and the sources linked talk about adaptations of the same story and inconsistencies between versions, not canon sequels and prequels, which is what the novels are.

The burdon of proof is not on us to prove that these confirmed canon events are as canon as each other, the burdon is on the OP to prove that from these two or three confirmed canon parts of the same story, some are less or more canon than others.
 
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We've gone over this, that doesn't change the fact that there's more showings that disprove the fearhax than ones in favor of it. I think it's silly to claim that the novels hold as much weight as the games proper but even if you disagree with that it doesn't really change things much.

Anyhow, vote tally:

Fear stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral: Planck
Poison stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx
  2. Disagreements: Planck, Glassman, Me
  3. Neutral:
Probability stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Planck, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral:
Probably good to get more stuff on the case.
 
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We've gone over this, that doesn't change the fact that there's more showings that disprove the fearhax than ones in favor of it. I think it's silly to claim that the novels hold as much weight as the games proper but even if you disagree with that it doesn't really change things much.

Anyhow, vote tally:

Fear stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral: Planck
Poison stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx
  2. Disagreements: Planck, Glassman, Me
  3. Neutral:
Probability stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Planck, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral:
Probably good to get more stuff on the case.
@Catzlaflame @Mr. Bambu @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @FinePoint

Could I trouble any of you to suffer through the above and help us come to a conclusion? Here is a summary of the current arguments:

Point 1: The books saying Demons are impervious to all man-made weapons are contradicted by the games, where Lady (a human) can kill demons with guns and even a cigar, and the demons getting gored by a van hitting them.

Counterpoints: Lady has superhuman feats (not sure how this affects her bullets and cigar but okay), and Lady doesn't fully kill them. Also one of the books says she uses silver bullets which works on demons. Then someone posted a scan from the Chinese Mobile DMC game where a weapon material is shown to be "the soul of an ancient demon." The argument is that Lady's weapons are enhanced by demonic energy (this seems extremely far fetched, nothing says Lady's guns in the main stories are made of something like that).

Point 2: The fear manipulation feats from the books are contradicted by various instances where humans are in the presence of demons but don't get scared, such as Lady, Nico, Kyrie, Morrison, and Patty, and other random humans.

Counterpoints: Lady has supernatural feats. Nothing about the others. The argument aside from that has revolved around whether the novels/manga hold the same canon status.

Point 3: Dante's alleged posion/acid resistance is seemingly contradicted by him needing to block/dodge a demon's poison/acid spitting, as well as game descriptions that the poison/acid is dangerous and should be avoided.

Counterpoints: Dante blocking/dodging doesn't mean that he isn't resistant, and/or that demon is just more powerful than the poison/acid he resisted in the novels.

Point 4: Dante's resistance to Probability Manip, Empathic Manip, and Death Manip come from the idea that he can resist the powers of the Poker Demon, but in the story where this comes from Dante explicitly says that the magic worked on him twice. He didn't die because he won the game, and it only kills you if you lose against the owner of the artifact, which Dante never did.

Counterpoints: He should've died, and he willingly let the artifact possess him. (although, nothing says he did this by deactivating some resistance, rather than just intentionally putting himself in harms way).
 
We've gone over this, that doesn't change the fact that there's more showings that disprove the fearhax than ones in favor of it. I think it's silly to claim that the novels hold as much weight as the games proper but even if you disagree with that it doesn't really change things much.

Anyhow, vote tally:

Fear stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral: Planck
Poison stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx
  2. Disagreements: Planck, Glassman, Me
  3. Neutral:
Probability stuff:
  1. Agreements: Deagonx, Planck, Me
  2. Disagreements: Glassman
  3. Neutral:
Probably good to get more stuff on the case.
I'm also in favor of removal
 
I want it to be noted that Urizen and Dante's fearhax feats in VOV still prove it is within the main entries, because their powers are just Demon powers cranked up to like, 11 due to their Sparda blood, with the unique abilities from Sparda's blood being things like manipulating Names, not the effects of Demonic Energy in general that has been described in various material (Vol.1, Vol.2, Deadly Fortune, and VoV). Also, it occurs to me that Grue being able to resist (he was paralyzed, but he wasn't ripping out and eating his own eyes) his mind being zonked (and the fact Human Spirit acts as the equal opposite reaction to Demonic Energy, and how canonically allows Humans to overcome their foes) would be literal in story proof that humans can resist so long as they have the Will to do so. So I personally still maintain that the Fearhax should stay.
 
People are ignoring the fact that games have been made explicitly taking existing novels in mind to avoid contradictions. Everything in the series holds the same weight (with the exception of the western adaptations).
 
Watching demons get gored by being hit with a van also seems to call into question the legitimacy of the idea that demons are impervious to all man-made weapons, among the other points you made. I agree, the novel is clearly contradicting the games here.


This also makes sense.


Yep, pretty straightforward.


Yeah this is undeniable, he literally says it worked on him.
Dodging an attack isn't a counter for resistance (it doesn't support it either). So unless he's actually affected in-game, Poison/Acid Manipulation Resistance can stay.

The poker artefact resistances can go. The bit in the Superhuman Physical Characteristics can just be moved to Immortality or removed.

Neutral to Fear Manipulation removal. From the above post, it seems to just be a matter of establishing its instances of occurrence versus the anime inconsistency, assuming those are regular irrelevant humans.
I share the same sentiments.
 
I'd like to mention that I don't think we've seen any actual rebuttal to the in-universe mechanics of human will/emotion and that some humans simply can resist (Grue) when others can't (Everyone else in the club eating their own eyes.)
 
I feel like the argument of "normal human people can resist it, but not because it's weak but because of verse mechanics" is a very convenient one to make, and not a convincing one if based on very vague talks of the strength of human willpower. It's not like you ever see normal people suddenly being capable of fighting demons (even the same ones who can resist that hax, Lady aside)
 
I feel like the argument of "normal human people can resist it, but not because it's weak but because of verse mechanics" is a very convenient one to make, and not a convincing one if based on very vague talks of the strength of human willpower. It's not like you ever see normal people suddenly being capable of fighting demons (even the same ones who can resist that hax, Lady aside)
She’s literally this. So is Beryl, (who then harms them physically with her Anti-Demon Rifle) the Order of the Sword (who then harms them physically with their Anti-Demon Technology), Arkham (who then harms them with the Demon Magic he harnesses after a ritual), Chen (who altered his body with Demon DNA), and Arius (Harnesses Demon Magic from Argosax). They are all normal people who then suddenly gain “beat the **** out of Demon” capacity.

Hell, Arkham becomes goop because his human spirit/will is corrupt and as such is unworthy to wield Sparda’s power + reveals his malignant nature due to his evil thoughts and intentions turning him what he was on the inside-A foul person who cast aside emotion (humanity). The Ascension Ceremony is also built on this concept, based strength of will and spirit to survive and evolve from it, becoming what their thoughts are. (Credo became a genuine Angel with an unbreakable shield to mirror his resolve, Agnus became an ugly bug due to his flighty nature and dark heart, and Mr. Evil Pope became a “Messiah” because he genuinely believed he was one.)

This is a built in verse mechanic.
 
She’s literally this. So is Beryl, (who then harms them physically with her Anti-Demon Rifle) the Order of the Sword (who then harms them physically with their Anti-Demon Technology), Arkham (who then harms them with the Demon Magic he harnesses after a ritual), Chen (who altered his body with Demon DNA), and Arius (Harnesses Demon Magic from Argosax). They are all normal people who then suddenly gain “beat the **** out of Demon” capacity.
You literally outlined how they all need special means to fight on even grounds with the demons. The willpower thing if taken at face value would imply they'd just be able to do that shit barehanded, given it mentions a great release of energy and so.

I'm not denying that it's a mechanic that exists in some capacity but I think it's silly to claim that it just so happens to be kicking in in every instance where humans aren't affected by the fearhax. Keep in mind that in a lot of those counter-showings the humans don't seem to be in any particular distress at all (see most of the anime showings in the OP), or on the contrary are terrified normal people who really shouldn't be assumed to all have incredible willpower that lets them partially ignore the ability or whatever (given that the ability is stated to straight-up drive normal people insane).
 
You literally outlined how they all need special means to fight on even grounds with the demons. The willpower thing if taken at face value would imply they'd just be able to do that shit barehanded, given it mentions a great release of energy and so.
I don't see how the two are linked. You're saying that keeping your sanity through willpower also means gaining superhuman strength through willpower. The two aren't connected.
I'm not denying that it's a mechanic that exists in some capacity but I think it's silly to claim that it just so happens to be kicking in in every instance where humans aren't affected by the fearhax.
It's hard to say they're not affected by fear hax when they are afraid, or if the demons are trying to speak with them. Pretty much every ant-feat here features humans who are scared, or it's Lady who is clearly different.
Keep in mind that in a lot of those counter-showings the humans don't seem to be in any particular distress at all (see most of the anime showings in the OP), or on the contrary are terrified normal people who really shouldn't be assumed to all have incredible willpower that lets them partially ignore the ability or whatever (given that the ability is stated to straight-up drive normal people insane).
The anime showings all show the people being fearful. It seems like this whole interpretation is at best basically taking anti-feats as proof. I also don't see how guys being terrified but not maddened is a fear hax anti-feat instead of just a madness hax anti-feat. At very best it seems unreasonable to get rid of abilities that are so blatantly stated over and over due to inconsistencies, let alone when such a standard could be applied to many verses.

What's happening here is you're looking at an ability that is directly and explicitly stated to exist and has been shown in action several times, and you're deciding that it doesn't exist.
 
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I don't see how the two are linked. You're saying that keeping your sanity through willpower also means gaining superhuman strength through willpower. The two aren't connected.
Incorrect. He's not referring to damage, but to seemingly resisting fearhax.
It's hard to say they're not affected by fear hax when they are afraid, or if the demons are trying to speak with them. Pretty much every ant-feat here features humans who are scared, or it's Lady who is clearly different.
It's hard to say they're not affected by fearhax when they're afraid? Of the big scary monsters? Like normal people?
The anime showings all show the people being fearful. It seems like this whole interpretation is at best basically taking anti-feats as proof. I also don't see how guys being terrified but not maddened is a fear hax anti-feat instead of just a madness hax anti-feat.
It's because fearhax needs to be treated with heavy scrutiny, since it's over-applied in the incredibly vast majority of cases.
What's happening here is you're looking at an ability that is directly and explicitly stated to exist and has been shown in action several times, and you're deciding that it doesn't exist.
Because there's more to suggest it doesn't. And, again, because fearhax requires a greater deal of scrutiny than most abilities due to how easy it is to incorrectly apply it.
 
Incorrect. He's not referring to damage, but to seemingly resisting fearhax.

It's hard to say they're not affected by fearhax when they're afraid? Of the big scary monsters? Like normal people?

It's because fearhax needs to be treated with heavy scrutiny, since it's over-applied in the incredibly vast majority of cases.

Because there's more to suggest it doesn't. And, again, because fearhax requires a greater deal of scrutiny than most abilities due to how easy it is to incorrectly apply it.
All of this would be valid if the ability wasn't directly stated to exist. I'm not presenting people being afraid as proof of fear hax, I'm saying that those people being afraid doesn't contradict the direct statements which tell us that demons have fear hax. You're the ones presenting scenes where people are afraid as anti-feats to fear hax. Anti-feats and inconsistency is a questionable piece of evidence at the best of times.
 
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