2A (Possibly L1C) Devil May Cry - A relevant closer to a CRT

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So it's been like 9 days, and as much as I'm fine with basically waiting an infinite amount of time, I know some others definitely aren't. So at what point will we have to go with DontTalk isn't coming, what's the cut off date exactly to call it there for that? (2 weeks, 1 month, 1.5 months, etc?)

Realistically there is no need to wait given that staff in it's majority has accepted this thread, so even if DT disagreed it wouldn't change much if anything.

Unless, people wanna start pulling the appeal to authority card.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yeah, if it's left for too long it'll end up being one of those revisions that gets accepted but never applied, and those always cause trouble later.

 

[SeijiSetto]

i feel like it would be worth pinging the staff that already agreed and asking them if their opinion remains the same after discussion that went on

 

[Vietthai96]

Can we not bring up hyperbole thing here??, like seriously, sure, ray of light and unending darkness seem like a flowery, hyperbolic texts, but this very hyperbolic texts is used to describe the relationship between the Demon Realm and Human World, which the Demon Realm is an unending darkness and the Human World is an insignificant thing compare to the Demon Realm - a ray of light compare to unending darkness.

Just because some statements are flowery doesn't mean it dismiss their underlying meaning, when authors write their "stories", they can perfectly using flowery texts to convey their underlying intentions and meaning while making the texts more poetic and not crude, it is called metaphorical comparison

 

[Drite77]

I don't think I've commented here, but it seems like 2-A/L1-C is solely based on " The Demon World, as an infinite realm containing countless worlds, should logically qualify as at least Multiverse+ in scale, wouldn’t you agree? This seems undeniable, given that the entire premise of the last conversation relied on it"

I see no reason why that's undeniable, an Infinite Universe can hold countless worlds no? After all it is infinite '-'

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Realistically there is no need to wait given that staff in it's majority has accepted this thread, so even if DT disagreed it wouldn't change much if anything.

Unless, people wanna start pulling the appeal to authority card.

I'll do ya a few better:

It is essential that at least one staff member is present during any content revision process, as their expertise and knowledge of a verse will be instrumental in ensuring the integrity and accuracy of the revised material. Any suggested changes that do not meet the necessary approval standards will not be implemented.

It is important to note that this requirement should not be interpreted as a guarantee that the proposed revisions will be approved if a minimum of three staff members have given their approval. In cases involving big or controversial changes, or in situations where a verse is one where many of our staff members are knowledgeable, it may be advisable to involve as many staff members as possible in the review and approval process. This requirement is in place to ensure that revisions to popular or widely-recognized series verses are thoroughly reviewed and approved by a sufficient number of individuals with the necessary expertise and knowledge.

The review and approval of content revisions that affect Tier 1 and/or Tier 0 ratings or that are highly controversial should preferably be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes. It is essential that these revisions are evaluated by staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise in these areas in order to maintain the accuracy and quality of the revised material.

So I'd say, given Ultima's original comments, the revision should absolutely not be applied yet given the uncertainty if the standards even allow it.

That being said...

The Administrator(s) should provide their evaluations and input regarding the suggested revision, and their decision will be given significant weight in the final determination of approval.

Although the evaluation of each staff member carries equal weight, the final decision regarding the approval of a content revision may be influenced by other factors such as the expertise and knowledge of the staff members involved, the complexity and controversy of the revision, and the popularity or prominence of the affected series verse. In terms of decision-making authority, bureaucrats are given the highest consideration, followed by administrators, and then thread moderators.

If an admin considers the thread as it stands can be applied, that's a different story.

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

So general consensus seems to be that 2-A is accepted, but Low 1-C's a no go?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I don't think I've commented here, but it seems like 2-A/L1-C is solely based on " The Demon World, as an infinite realm containing countless worlds, should logically qualify as at least Multiverse+ in scale, wouldn’t you agree? This seems undeniable, given that the entire premise of the last conversation relied on it"

I see no reason why that's undeniable, an Infinite Universe can hold countless worlds no? After all it is infinite '-'

Not the same, that violates the logic L1C is based on let alone 2A. Demon World on panel has statements of containing space-time continuums as well as giving birth to Human World which, again, is a space-time continuum and has separate rules of space and time in comparison to other space-times within it. It obviously acts as a superspace for all worlds. It's pretty much undeniable at this point.

 

[SYPHe5D]

So it's been like 9 days, and as much as I'm fine with basically waiting an infinite amount of time, I know some others definitely aren't. So at what point will we have to go with DontTalk isn't coming, what's the cut off date exactly to call it there for that? (2 weeks, 1 month, 1.5 months, etc?)

If I recall correctly, it is 2 weeks after the thread was made.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

So general consensus seems to be that 2-A is accepted, but Low 1-C's a no go?

A possible L1C rating is a go-go too alongside 2A.

 

[Drite77]

Not the same, that violates the logic L1C is based on let alone 2A. Demon World on panel has statements of containing space-time continuums as well as giving birth to Human World which, again, is a space-time continuum and has separate rules of space and time in comparison to other space-times within it. It obviously as a superspace for all worlds. It's pretty much undeniable at this point.

Bro, the statement was that the Universe was split into two, one the Demon World, the other the Human World, the Demon World did not give birth to the human world '-'

 

[SYPHe5D]

The world was born of/from darkness
Darkness is the demon world, that has been agreed upon,therefore the human world was born from the demon world.
Tho regardless, if you don t believe that to be true then that won’t change anything.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Bro, the statement was that the Universe was split into two, one the Demon World, the other the Human World, the Demon World did not give birth to the human world '-'

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I just gonna post this scan here and say nothing else for DMC stuff

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Agree with 2-A

 

[Drite77]

That didn't answer my question, in fact, the scan the lad above posted, which was what I am referring, answers. The Demon World and the Human world were split, the Demon World did not give birth to the human world '-'

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I believe the biggest issue with this entire revision is that there's no precedent for this.

We need some proper standards set before we allow 2-A based on potentially being able to store a 2-A amount of stuff within a space.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That didn't answer my question, in fact, the scan the lad above posted, which was what I am referring, answers. The Demon World and the Human world were split, the Demon World did not give birth to the human world '-'

The human world was born from the demon world, later on it was yanked out of the demon world.

I recommend you either read the manga or the blogs.

Also the ****? The first page word for word says the world was born from darkness, how can you see the panel and think it doesn't say what it says ?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I believe the biggest issue with this entire revision is that there's no precedent for this.

We need some proper standards set before we allow 2-A based on potentially being able to store a 2-A amount of stuff within a space.

I think I'll make a short thread to address this issue so we can knock it out quickly.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

That didn't answer my question, in fact, the scan the lad above posted, which was what I am referring, answers. The Demon World and the Human world were split, the Demon World did not give birth to the human world '-'

... Yeah I won't even bother explaining this obvious nonsense that was brought in G1 blog which was nuked to kingdom come and back on this same site.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I believe the biggest issue with this entire revision is that there's no precedent for this.

We need some proper standards set before we allow 2-A based on potentially being able to store a 2-A amount of stuff within a space.

That lowkey demands tier 2 revision in itself which hasn't been done for a long time as far as I'm concerned,

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I think I'll make a short thread to address this issue so we can knock it out quickly.

Pretty sure verses like slime got this btw

 

[Planck69]

I believe the biggest issue with this entire revision is that there's no precedent for this.

We need some proper standards set before we allow 2-A based on potentially being able to store a 2-A amount of stuff within a space.

Is this not mostly the same logic as Tensura though?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Pretty sure verses like slime got this btw

Is this not mostly the same logic as Tensura though?

Note that while I'm not a fan of the one verse did it so should the other. However, if this is the exact reasoning other verses get 2-A despite not having Infinite Universes in the structure then I can't argue against it as it's already done.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Note that while I'm not a fan of the one verse did it so should the other. However, if this is the exact reasoning other verses get 2-A despite not having Infinite Universes in the structure then I can't argue against it as it's already done.

Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)

Intelligence:Gets clapped by sans Notes: Explanation on Some General Concepts in Tensei Victories: Losses: Sans Inconclusive: Soma Cruz (Castlevania) Soma's Profile (Dark Lord Soma Soma Cruz and End of Series Rimuru Tempest were used, both were bloodlusted, and speed was equalized)

vsbattles.fandom.com

It is listed as 2B, likely 2A

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)

Intelligence:Gets clapped by sans Notes: Explanation on Some General Concepts in Tensei Victories: Losses: Sans Inconclusive: Soma Cruz (Castlevania) Soma's Profile (Dark Lord Soma Soma Cruz and End of Series Rimuru Tempest were used, both were bloodlusted, and speed was equalized)

vsbattles.fandom.com

It is listed as 2B, likely 2A

Bruh... Alright then, GG. Unless a revision thread is made to discuss this type of scaling, I've got nothing. 2-A Devil May Cry it is... So long as it has the evidence.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also not a real fan of whataboutism in situations when the evidence for the verse’s own cosmology should used here

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Also not a real fan of whataboutism in situations when the evidence for the verse’s own cosmology should used here

This.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This does warrant a 2B rating here though.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Also not a real fan of whataboutism in situations when the evidence for the verse’s own cosmology should used here

This^ tho they are using the logic of the reasoning being used before

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Okay, for some reason, the link keeps being broken on my end here.

So I will do a screenshot of the translation provided by the OP in his thread .

 

[SYPHe5D]

Okay, for some reason, the link keeps broken on my end here.

So I will do a screenshot of the translation provided by the OP in his thread .

This is referring to another cosmology within dmc , i know this cause these are my scans that I had gotten translated from dmc 2’s novel raws. And no it would be 2 A still but that’s another discussion.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This is referring to another cosmology within dmc , i know this cause these are my scans that I had gotten translated from dmc 2’s novel raws.

Based on the evidence I see so far including the blog. I honestly don’t find the blog’s reasoning for 2A to being convincing.

Also nothing states it is another cosmology within DMC outside of the fact it states there being a multiverse for DMC going by what was translated for this specific scan provided by the OP.

I rather check the evidence more throughly to ensure we getting the correct interpretation tbh

 

[Planck69]

Also not a real fan of whataboutism in situations when the evidence for the verse’s own cosmology should used here

I feel as though people are getting hung up on the wrong thing here. Tensura wasn't brought up as some kind of gotcha.

Sir Ovens had an issue of this logic having no precedent on the site. It does and we brought up an example. You do not need to argue about them being similar at all or even hold that notion for this to be true.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

.I feel as though people are getting hung up on the wrong thing here. Tensura wasn't brought up as some kind of gotcha.

Sir Ovens had an issue of this logic having no precedent on the site. It does and we brought up an example. You do not need to argue about them being similar at all or even hold that notion for this to be true.

Still counts as whataboutism since Tensura is considered 2B in the web novel, likely 2A.

That is why I replied to LordGriffin earlier as apparently the web novel is considered 2B, likely 2A

Also nothing stops someone from challenging that precedent on the site tbf, but either way, I rather focused on the available evidence we got on hand here to ensure this is the correct result we want here.

So far, I don’t mind 2B myself tbh.

If push comes to shove, we could compromise on a possibly rating for the 2A

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Still counts as whataboutism since Tensura is considered 2B in the web novel, likely 2A.

That is why I replied to LordGriffin earlier as apparently the web novel is considered 2B, likely 2A

Also nothing stops anyone from challenging that precedent on the site tbf, but either way, I rather focused on the available evidence we go on hand here to ensure this is the correct result we want here.

So far, I don’t mind 2B myself tbh.

If push comes to shove, we could compromise on a possibly rating for the 2A

Brother... What are you even talking about?

 

[Planck69]

Still counts as whataboutism since Tensura is considered 2B in the web novel, likely 2A.

That is why I replied to LordGriffin earlier as apparently the web novel is considered 2B, likely 2A

Also nothing stops anyone from challenging that precedent on the site tbf, but either way, I rather focused on the available evidence we got on hand here to ensure this is the correct result we want here.

So far, I don’t mind 2B myself tbh.

If push comes to shove, we could compromise on a possibly rating for the 2A

I do not see what the whataboutism here even is. The core of Sir Ovens' issue is that a rating for 2-A without infinite universes not having a precedent. The "likely" modifier itself is irrelevant. The point is that Tensura is an example of that base logic of a higher Tier 2 tiering without that number of universes actually existing.

I cannot believe that this has to be said but bringing up that a precedent exists isn't whataboutism. Neither me nor Tony are arguing that Tensura's existence validates or invalidates the ratings above, we just corrected Ovens' on something he took issue with.

And the DMC scan itself doesn't tell me much of anything about 2-B either, given the argument neither involves it nor is particularly relevant to it.

Edit: And yeah, before I am asked, I haven't changed my stance on the tiering.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I do not see what the whataboutism here even is. The core of Sir Ovens' issue is that a rating for 2-A without infinite universes not having a precedent. The "likely" modifier itself is irrelevant. The point is that Tensura is an example of that base logic of a higher Tier 2 tiering without that number of universes actually existing.

I cannot believe that this has to be said but bringing up that a precedent exists isn't whataboutism. Neither me nor Tony are arguing that Tensura's existence validates or invalidates the ratings above, we just corrected Ovens' on something he took issue with.

And the scan itself doesn't tell me much of anything about 2-B either, given the argument neither involves it nor is particularly relevant to it.

Your statement involves whataboutism invoked.

Is this not mostly the same logic as Tensura though?

The same logic being used in Tensura is why I say it is whataboutism. I am more of the belief that precedent doesn’t necessarily exclude whataboutism tbh, but that is my personal belief on the matter.


Anyway, the scan I provided has this specific translation and I will quote here.

“There are many "ifs (or what-ifs)" as there are possibilities, alternative worlds of parallel existence.”

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Your statement involves whataboutism invoked.

The same logic being used in Tensura is why I say it is whataboutism. I am more of the belief that precedent doesn’t necessarily exclude whataboutism tbh, but that is my personal belief on the matter.


Anyway, the scan I provided has this specific translation and I will quote here.

“There are many "ifs (or what-ifs)" as there are possibilities, alternative worlds of parallel existence.”

My guy... There is no concept of "what-ifs" taking place in Demon World assuming that's your argument here... Literally nobody talking about "what-ifs" here why are you even bringing that stuff? We are referring to space, not timelines or multiverse shenanigans.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

My guy... There is no concept of what-ifs taking place in Demon World assuming that's your argument here... Literally nobody talking about "what-ifs" here why are you even bringing that stuff? We are referring to space, not timelines or multiverse shenanigans.

My argument is there is a statement that basically implies the existence of many ifs/alternate worlds given the reasoning involved in this.