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Deagonx

Deagonx

VS Battles Thread Moderator
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  • It's very rare for me to look at threads that are posted on my wall. You are free to ask, but unless it is a verse I am already interested in, it is not likely that I will respond to it.
    HammerStrikes219

    I am aware of my status, but here is my thoughts on only the 2nd proposal.


    Empty space isn’t necessarily devoid of entirely everything unless we want to take this to the highest interpretation that is absolute nothingness. No dimensions, no atoms, not subatomic particles, no matter, and so on.



    Empty space will technically still contain energy, and certain other things that are smaller than the human eye.
    View previous comments…
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    No it isn't, nothing can "be inside empty space." If something is inside of space, it isn't empty.
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    “it isn't an inherent part of spacetime. If someone creates an empty universe in fiction we shouldn't just assume it has dark matter or dark energy”

    Creating a empty universe is implying that energy is involved otherwise why create the empty universe to begin with?

    The other option is that the empty universe existed from the very beginning.
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    Oh, btw, I like to add that dark energy is only tied to space, not time itself necessarily
    ShadowSythez
    Hi. Recently I made a thread fixing the 'attack on titan' verse and its speed calculations. I was wondering if you could check it out when your free !
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    vsbattles.fandom.com

    Keyaru

    Keyaru is a 14-year-old teenager that obtained the Hero Class: Healer. After being summoned to serve the kingdom, he was betrayed and enslaved by the other heroes, suffering from all kinds of abuse and exploitation for 4 years. However, he later forms a scheme to take his revenge after realizing...
    vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

    Why are we using this character as a example?

    Is the series focued on hentai or not?
    SSJGeminiJJ

    Hi. I thought the thread above was already able to be concluded but apparently I might need one more staff agreement as the dealbreaker. I recall you reading about this topic on another thread that brought it up and expressing disagreement with the notion of higher dimensional 8th sense (Saint Seiya). If it's not a bother, would you be able to take a quick look at this thread (which goes more in depth to its invalidity) and give your input? Thanks.
    LuffyRuffy46307
    well, this one crt it's been idle for a while and needs an evaluation, could you help us finish it? Thank you very much for your attention.
    Agnaa
    Responding here since it's not super relevant to the RVR.
    Deagonx said:
    That would be enough to decide any other matter on the site.
    Click to expand...
    God I'd hope that no CRTs or standard revisions get passed wholesale when split 9-6. To me, that's something that needs a compromise.

    Plus, that's only just outside of the window that versus threads would get applied for.
    View previous comments…
    Agnaa
    Agnaa
    If we want to go down to exact ratios, the average of those ban lengths would be 14.6 months.

    I think a 60-40 vote split is too narrow for a difference in implementation so extreme to be implemented entirely.

    But if that's just our subjective views, then meh.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Yeah I think it's just a difference in philosophy. In my view 9 to 6 is relatively decisive.
    ImmortalDread
    ImmortalDread
    9:6 is sufficient, in matter of fact, we don't require super-majority (a higher percentage of votes, such as two-thirds or three-quarters) in RvR
    Huesito88
    Hey Deagonx if you aren't busy tomorrow or still awake later to night can we have have a talk, I'd like to just double check something. I also don't care if you respond immediately or take hours in between messages.

    Here's my discord "Huesito88#9358"
    BestMGQScalerEver
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    What is the question?
    BestMGQScalerEver
    BestMGQScalerEver
    Basically 2 but I'll post here. Not directed towards you specifically just for whoever can answer.

    1. If something is said to be "If you refer to this as "X" then it will never be "X"" or similar would this result in an "infinite regress". This is pretty generic negative theology and without something similar to this core idea you can barely even call it such. Or is negative theology here just classified as being "unexplainable" or "indescribable".
    2. Are there any verses you can mention or have any example which would lead to an infinite regress. (Good question to get what exactly can lead to an infinite regress clarified)
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    1. That'd be x + 1, unless it's specifically spelled out that this applies to levels of reality above one's own, per DGs middle ground position.

    2. Not sure. I only know of a couple verses which use NT
    Hasty12345
    I’m sorry but I can’t help myself and I don’t want to get in trouble on the staff thread… but didn’t you know the difference between 500 and 100,000 Is uncountably infinite 🗿🗿
    Samael_010
    vote pls
    vsbattles.com

    The Maanim revision (The Unwritten)

    https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Samael_010/The_Maanim old maanim https://www.cbr.com/carey-gross-ready-the-end-of-the-unwritten-apocalypse/ The solicitation for "The Unwritten: Apocalypse" #8 teases Tom's hunt for a maanim. Is that the Holy Grail? Carey: The Grail and the maanim are...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    DaReaperMan
    BTW I would advocate for Clout to be allowed to comment in that TR thread, since he seems both trustworthy and knowledgeable
    KLOL506
    Wait, I needed to ask one last thing.

    Do I keep the same AP justification for Athena but just swap it with "Unknown, at least 2-C"? Since it was agreed that it was a higher power but not infinitely so?
    Agnaa
    Pinging @Theglassman12 due to also being relevant to this
    Deagonx said:
    The distinction here doesn't change the point of my analogy. If it would be rude to use against the person, don't use it against the argument. There are other ways of getting your point across.
    Click to expand...
    I completely disagree with this, think it's a terrible route to go down, and know that it goes completely against our precedent for what we punish for. Which is particularly relevant since LordGinSama's a fairly long-time user.

    On why it's bad, well, I think my response here is a fair enough example. Should I not be allowed to call your suggestion "terrible", since that'd be a rude thing to say against a person? Oftentimes arguments genuinely need to be described in ways that, even at their nicest, would be considered insults if applied to people, such as "illogical" and "unreasonable". While these can upset people, I think that's the price we have to pay to be able to talk about some things.

    You can fairly easily argue that "shit" or "braindead" are worse, but to draw a line you'd have to draw one right in the middle; where some people will be offended by unpunished speech, and some people will casually toss out punishable speech without a second thought, which I think is generally a bad situation to be in.
    • Like
    Reactions: DaMonkeMan
    View previous comments…
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Venting out frustrations? Not needing to ditch a thread the second you get a bit heated at the risk of a ban? Emphasis? Variety in language?
    Click to expand...
    I really don't think any of that justifies insulting other people in a debate, even indirectly.

    I think so.
    Click to expand...
    Well, then I strongly strongly sympathize with the people being bullied and victimized by such users being given free reign to act like that.

    You're moving the notch over somewhat, and I don't think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
    Click to expand...

    There isn't much more to say here than that I completely disagree. I am far far more concerned with protecting someone's right to be treated with dignity and respect than I am in protecting someone's right to be a bully, to insult or degrade people who disagree with them. To me, the former is far far more crucial than the latter, and I think if the staff as a whole endorsed the fact that you simply have to put up with being insulted in order to argue a CRT, it would greatly degrade the quality of the site. It is not hard to be polite, it is not hard to avoid insults. It's not hard to avoid starting rebuttals with "are you ******* serious" or "what the **** is this argument?" or "This is a brain dead take, ngl." We should absolutely warn and punish users who regularly do that, and protect the people they are bullying from having to endure it on a constant basis just to accommodate these ill-tempered users.

    I get that you see it differently, but I am absolutely unmovable on this. Civility shouldn't be optional.
    Theglassman12
    Theglassman12
    You wanna explain how I’m relevant to this conversation when I told Gin to tone down the behavior?
    Agnaa
    Agnaa
    I get that you see it differently, but I am absolutely unmovable on this. Civility shouldn't be optional.

    Welp, fair enough then.

    You wanna explain how I’m relevant to this conversation when I told Gin to tone down the behavior?

    Since you gave out warnings that I think shouldn't have been given, based on how I think we've tended to treat this sort of behaviour in the past.
    DaMonkeMan
    How long's the threadban though?
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    It's permanent. We discussed it at length and decided there was little utility in attempting to measure it, as the only difference between being thread banned and not is that you'll have to ask a staff member when you're involved a report, but (realistically) no one is involved in reports so routinely that this would become a significant chore, as very very very few users end up in RVR in any way and even fewer interject out of turn.

    In a perfect world we would just have all comments in RVR go through the mod approval queue before landing in order to prevent the stir of drama from getting out of hand, but I don't know that it's possible in our forum system.
    DaMonkeMan
    DaMonkeMan
    In a perfect world we would just have all comments in RVR go through the mod approval queue before landing in order to prevent the stir of drama from getting out of hand, but I don't know that it's possible in our forum system.
    Click to expand...
    I'm pretty sure some forums do that.
    Like Fanverse, for example.
    So it's certainly possible.
    Anyway thank you for the answer.
    I'll get off your profile now.
    Serlock_Holmes
    These statements in the gow thread sure seem like the ichigo statement by aizen and I'm pretty sure ichigo isn't infinitely beyond him.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Which statement?
    Serlock_Holmes
    Serlock_Holmes
    That aizen couldn't even feel ichigo's power and . And also that his power far surpasses anything else. Those statements are pretty much the same and yet are treated quite differently. Also the jin mo ri situation. Just sending you thato to point these things out as it seems iffy for a similar situation to be treated differently.
    Georredannea15
    Instead of deleting my comments, you can kindly say "please don't bother me".

    And yes, as I said, these are the producer's interviews, not our reviews.
    View previous comments…
    Georredannea15
    Georredannea15
    Well, you have provided no evidence for what you said and you are proceeding with the policy of "I am the staff, I am always right".

    Anyway, I won't tire you any further. It would be disrespectful to you.
    Georredannea15
    Georredannea15
    Yes. A vague notion of a "higher existence" doesn't guarantee QS in our standards.
    Click to expand...
    You still think that's the only statement... Anyway, I won't say any more.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Stop commenting on my wall.
    SweetDao
    View previous comments…
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    Also using what Executor say isn’t a support for High 1B nor against it since again, Japanese is a context dependent language which is true, but the same applies to other language as this isn’t exactly exclusive to Japanese.

    However, I should note that from my point of view, just because a language is heavily context dependent doesn’t make it a free pass from not being scrutinized, rather it should analyzed carefully
    SweetDao
    SweetDao
    Hello once again Deagonx, may I know if I'm allowed to answer Shadow post? I would like to do so out of courtesy since he took time to answer me, but if you feel it's better to wait for further staff input instead of back and forth, I understand.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    You can
    SweetDao
    Hello once again Deagonx. May I be allowed to make another comment in the Nasu Thread? I would like to add 2 points I forgot to deal with alongside slightly tackling what Tdjwo mentioned if that's fine by you.
    (Similarly, I sent you a message on Discord to talk about something related to all of that)
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Can you show me a draft
    SweetDao
    SweetDao
    I forgot to mention two points in my original post because I was in a hurry to write it, I apologize for that.

    She says that she was demonized by Sabbat and gained higher dimensional senses that made her omnipotent in this dimension.
    Click to expand...
    Dimension and dimensional are used quite loosely in that sentence. The "in this dimension" clearly means a plane of existence, not an "additional spatial axis". Therefore what Kiara effectively did was be able to see a greater place beyond the "human world" that I assume is beyond the regular universe. I'll explain why at one point.

    The thing is, "Higher-dimensional" has either two or three significations here. The first one would be quite literally "Seeing things as 4D/5D". The second one would be "higher dimensional" in the sense that she sees a place beyond her world. The third one would assume that "higher dimensional" is not something literal but in fact poetic or metaphorical. Before anything, no "her being omnipotent in that dimension" doesn't disprove what I'm going to say right now.

    In this scan, we see Kiara saying something very interesting. Her goal during her life was to "gain true sight" therefore finding the right perspective, the truth. The same truth that she states to have beheld. Notice how she doesn't say "a part of the truth" but very factually states that it is "the truth of the world.".

    To explain in one sentence, gaining such a new perspective allowed her to peer into another plane of existence that made her realize how minuscule/powerless she was. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, she further cements what I'm trying to say when she states the following :

    "What then was the purpose of my metamorphosis, if all my efforts served to do was demonstrate to me how pitiful I was?"
    Click to expand...
    She didn't wish to get "higher dimensional" but just obtain what she sought. Remember who took Kiara as an example? Roa himself. The first thing he said is "how endless the perception of humans is", and how no matter transcendent you are, there is still someone above you.

    Kiara is the perfect example to illustrate his words, yes. But not in a High 1-B perspective. The only factual thing that happened is Kiara "being" inside another plane of existence and seeing stronger people around her. She reached a place that is qualitative, not quantitative. Or in other words "Because Kiara got to that place, she realized there were always people stronger than her." and not "Kiara got to that place, but an infinite number of other qualitative places exist above her with stronger people inside."

    Nothing indicates any sort of infinite dimensional hierarchy, especially because Roa used Kiara as an example. This just shows how shallow perception can be sometimes. Be it in the human world or in the "demonic heavens", there is always someone above you, Roa is just making a parallel really.

    The main issue now is obviously the fact that she is stated as omnipotent in the regular world. As I explained earlier, it all depends on what "dimension" truly means here. However, seeing the antecedents with Nasuverse regarding higher dimension, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that "Higher-dimensional senses" means at the same time a dimensionally superior point of view (as in metaphorical), alongside an actual superiority over her plane of existence (as in physical). I personally can't imagine the usage of such words to mean "4D/5D" stuff, that would make no sense at all in the context.

    As for why I mentioned that for me the demonic heavens shouldn't be in the universe, I'll tackle it now. Roa states that Kiara is still bound to this universe, indeed. However, when he tells the story, he explains why she was still bound inside it. It's because she decided to stay on her own accord, not because the demonic heavens were within the universe itself.

    Now, Roa said this :

    "But even she is still bound by her material form---- still bound to this universe. As for why-----"
    Click to expand...
    The sentence is self-explanatory. If she was still bound to this universe because she willingly decided to stay, it means that if she had wanted to fully embrace the demonic heavens she wouldn't be bound to this universe anymore. Therefore it's not a stretch to say that the demonic heavens aren't within the human universe. (Little additional note: I talked with KingNanaya and he explained to me that maybe the demonic heavens could be on the reverse side of the world, but idk what it entails tbf so I'll not delve deeper into that.)

    Roa himself states that what Kiara was able to sense was the "outside" of the world. Whatever it even means. Although I would interpret it with it meaning something outside of the universe. Moreover, what he is doing is more or less an existential crisis since he understands that seeking strength (like Kiara) or happiness is useless. Thanks to his reincarnations, he understood that what was truly important is to continue to exist "as a self" rather than as a person. I'll take what he means more conceptually as in "an identity that doesn't belong to only one body".

    As for a little counter-argument for Tdjwo post :

    This implies that Raum who is also higher dimensional(6D, likely 8D) wasn't able to affect the inside the Universe because the Universe itself was preventing him from doing so. So while this isn't a blatant showcase of an High 1B universe, it still helps us understand that the Universe is the reason that higher dimensional beings can't transcend it. Add this scan with Roa's statement of "infinite levels of transcendence still being bound to the universe," then you will get a very concrete High 1B statement tying to the Universe.
    Click to expand...
    You said it yourself, it's absolutely not dealing with an infinite dimensional universe. You're trying to plaster something that could make sense but feels like a stretch. If at least there was some sort of mention of "dimensional", "dimensions", space attribute, or whatever, I could see the link but right now it feels like trying to put the "High 1-B statement" into the situation to explain things that I'm sure made sense on their own within the narrative itself. Moreover as explained above, Kiara was going to leave the universe if she truly wanted to do so, but she preferred to remain within it, so it wouldn't even make sense/impact the universe itself if somehow the statement is High 1-B.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Okay, you can post that.
    Tdjwo
    Can I get your permission to discuss on this thread?
    • Like
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    View previous comments…
    Tdjwo
    Tdjwo
    Yeah, you're right but mine is somewhat different from his. I will write the draft and send it soon.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    I should clarify, the difference needs to be fairly significant. If I read it and feel like its 80-90% the same, I'd rather you just propose the extra 10-20% in a shorter comment than trying to write a full rebuttal that mostly echoes what Nanaya already said.
    • Like
    Reactions: Tdjwo
    Tdjwo
    Tdjwo
    I already sent a dm to you about the thread. Can I post it?
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