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[Fate/Grand Order] Kama CRT and NEP Interaction

BreezeHM

BreezeHM

Peak Cultivator
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Kama's profile has been fixed with English scans and formatted nicely.

Old Profile

Kama
Changes:
  • Formatting to make it easy on the eyes
  • Japanese scans changed to English Scans
  • Keys for Chaldea Servant and Beast III/Lapse
  • higher in statistics upon evolution
  • Low 1-C, possibly 1-C with Noble Phantasms in First Key
  • Immeasurable Speed
  • Removed resistances that shouldn't be there
  • Omnipresence within her Universe
  • Acasuality Type 3
  • NEP Update
  • Large Size Type 8
  • Removed Abstract Existence Type 2
  • Multiple Selves
  • Pretty much Everything in the First Key is New

Now, let's talk about NEP interaction for Servants.

With Kama's NEP being downgraded to Type 1 and Type 3 for her mind, Servants need their NEP interaction changed in the Servant Physiology.

First, Servants are able to interact and cut down Kama. and Mata Hari was able to use her charm skill on Karma, giving Servants the ability to interact with NEP Type 1 and Type 3 for the mind.

Let's move onto NEP Type 3 now with Maxwell Demon.
Maxwell Demon does not exist. When attacking him, he is described as hitting air, and that he was never hurt at all. At the same time, he exists as a theory, and could exist as a servant due to the circumstances of the singularity. The justification would look like this.
Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 3, Aspect type 1, & 3: Maxwell Demon is a theoretical existence, a fictional demon who was imagined as a way to demonstrate how the second law of thermodynamics might be broken. Normally he is unable to exist as a servant, as such, he cannot be attacked at all but, due to the nature of the singularity, his existence was formed)

The only people that would be able to interact with Type 3 are divine spirits/gods. seeing as how Mori and Kagetora couldn't affect it until Bishamonten blessed Kagetora with her powers, allowing her to become a direct avatar of it. Also, Okita can affect it with her Noble Phantasm and Demon King Nobbu can affect it as well due to being buffed by Maxwell Demon

As for Musashi, I'll touch on her in her own thread with a rework for her profile.
 
Last edited:
There are still other ongoing nasu threads. Up to 4. Can't this wait till later?
 
Tdjwo said:
There are still other ongoing nasu threads. Up to 4. Can't this wait till later?
Click to expand...
The speed thread is pretty much dead, it's basically been shot down already so I thought it would be fine with the max being 4. Also since this wouldn't be anything heavy like the other CRTs.
KingNanaya said:
I think this is fine though. I like how the profile looks too. you did good bro
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
BreezeHM said:
The speed thread is pretty much dead, it's basically been shot down already so I thought it would be fine with the max being 4. Also since this wouldn't be anything heavy like the other CRTs.
Click to expand...
Alright. That's fine then. I'm pretty neutral on this crt as I'm not really knowledgeable on Kama tbh.
 
Ok, It looks good except for the fact that Kama have her legs cut on post-ressurection image.

Can't you just put her Final Ascension art for the post-ressurection?
 
Gotta have to disagree with this one.
In Ooku Kama explicitly stated that she was, in fact, having a body
Screenshot-2023-08-09-234917.png

The reason it didn't contradict with what she had said is because the Ascension system of Chaldea as well as the Earth only allows Servant to reach somewhat close to their full potential, to their "starting point of conception". You can clearly see this in Morgan's final ascension line. And it also explains why only parts of her body seem to be translucent, namely her hands and feet.
So while I do agree that her true form as a Divine Spirit of India might be "bodiless", her form in Ooku clearly wasn't. So anything regarding Servants having the ability to interact with NEP 1 characters is out of the question.
 
Kinda forgot about this, been busy with Martial Peak, I'll try and get this out the way

Seracle said:
Gotta have to disagree with this one.
In Ooku Kama explicitly stated that she was, in fact, having a body
Screenshot-2023-08-09-234917.png

The reason it didn't contradict with what she had said is because the Ascension system of Chaldea as well as the Earth only allows Servant to reach somewhat close to their full potential, to their "starting point of conception". You can clearly see this in Morgan's final ascension line. And it also explains why only parts of her body seem to be translucent, namely her hands and feet.
So while I do agree that her true form as a Divine Spirit of India might be "bodiless", her form in Ooku clearly wasn't. So anything regarding Servants having the ability to interact with NEP 1 characters is out of the question.
Click to expand...
First, Kama is not a servant. She is a genuine god straight from the Indian Pantheon and Lostbelt, She is already in her true form.
gods are conceptual beings the "bodies" you see are just things they created similar to how they created their own mind, soul etc. In Kama's case, she possess the body of Sakura, which has no relation to her concept that was erased by Shiva.
 
Sion clearly stated that Kama was indeed a Servant. Furthermore, in the battle against Kama, she was showed as a Beast-class Servant.
Screenshot-2023-08-10-113252.png

After the end of the Age of Gods, Gods had deteriorated to Divine-Spirit and returned to the Throne of Gods. And even if they want to materialize in the world, they have to lower their Divinity to the point that the World accepts them. So basically, Kama there was a fraction of the shadow of her former self.
The only time you would see a god in Pan Human History after the end of the Age of Gods is when they used the ability "Regression to the Age of Gods", as displayed by Tiamat in Babylonia, Ishtar in "Merry Christmas in the Underworld" and Dioscuri in "Little Big Tengu". In Tiamat's case, she had the help of a Holy Grail; in Dioscuri's case, the Mallet of Fortune; and Ishtar didn't even regress to her god form. Furthermore, not every gods are showed to possess this ability, and certainly not to use this freely under any circumstances.
Also, you didn't deny that Kama was having a body either.
 
Divine Spirit Pseudo-Servants are divine spirits that cannot manifest on Earth without a host. gods and humans cannot coexist on Earth, hence why she needs a human body to manifest on the earth.
Divine spirits currently do not exist in the human world they exist in a higher dimensional place called the reverse side of the world which is a world built on laws gods follow which is different from laws humans follow which is its practically impossible for humans and gods to coexist due to the difference in laws, additional gods laws don't include the laws of physics before heaven and earth was separated laws of physics was never a thing it only came to exist when gods moved to the reverse side of the world and came to be one of the laws humans follow that is different from the gods)
Click to expand...
The Kama we see is not the same Kama from Proper Human History. This is the Kama from Lostbelt 4, who escaped because Arjuna absorbed Shiva hence, having no one being able to hold back Mara's personality emerging instead of Kamas. With Mara, she is a Beast having the independent manifestation skill, allowing her to travel between Lostbelts which is why she appears and creates the Ooku.
Seracle said:
Sion clearly stated that Kama was indeed a Servant. Furthermore, in the battle against Kama, she was showed as a Beast-class Servant.
Click to expand...
What are you even trying to say? Goetia was also said to be a Beast-Class Servant.
Seracle said:
Also, you didn't deny that Kama was having a body either.
Click to expand...
Because the body doesn't matter. You can affect the body all you want and it won't damage her if you cannot affect her concept which is literally their existence, which no longer exists. Even then, It's in her own Noble Phantasm line she possesses no body.
 
BreezeHM said:
What are you even trying to say? Goetia was also said to be a Beast-Class Servant.
Click to expand...
What am I trying to say? It's that Kama was not at her true form. You said she was because she is NOT a servant, which contradict what Sion had concluded after analyzing her Spirit Origin.
BreezeHM said:
Because the body doesn't matter. You can affect the body all you want and it won't damage her if you cannot affect her concept which is literally their existence, which no longer exists. Even then, It's in her own Noble Phantasm line she possesses no body.
Click to expand...
This is a critical misunderstanding regarding Servant physiology, so let's head back to our good old friend Fate/complete material from FSN.
First of all, at this point, there is no denying that Soul in Nasuverse is a record of an intelligent being which contains concept, information and mind. It's been long accepted in the Nasu global hax thread. And indeed, affecting a Soul requires the ability to affect the soul, concept and information all at once. Sure, I will even admit that affecting Kama soul requires the ability to interact with NEP 1, since her concept is missing.
HOWEVER, in practice, you don't have to affect the soul in order to defeat a Servant, which is the form Kama took in the Ooku event, definitely not a god, as stated by Sion.
When a Servant is summoned, they acquire a Spiritl Core (or in the case of Divine Spirit, Divine Core), and sustaining bodily damage inflicts damage to the Core as well, with the heart and brain directly connect to the Core. And when the Core is destroyed, the Heroic Spirit (or Divine Spirit) will no longer be able to materialize and will have to return to the Throne. So battle between Servants is a process of gradually shaving off the magical energy that forms the their bodies.
And why do they need a physical body? Because it is difficult for a spiritual body to affect a material one. That's why Servant materialize to engage in combat.
In this particular case, Kama's body (which she stated that she possessed one in Ooku event) is the materialization of her Soul (Divine Spirit) with the information of "not having a body" engraved in it, which explained the translucent parts of her body. And as I said, she is no where near her "starting point of conception", so only parts of her seem that way. She got her ass kicked in Ooku, her Spirit Core destroyed and her soul lost the ability to materialize, without having to do anything to her Soul.
All and all, my point is clear: Kama HAD a body in Ooku, and she is a SERVANT. Other Servants attacking her doesn't qualify for NEP1 interaction.
That's all I have to say. And I think it would be productive to have some staffs who are knowledgable about the verse to read the arguments, give their opinions and cast their votes.
 
Seracle said:
What am I trying to say? It's that Kama was not at her true form. You said she was because she is NOT a servant, which contradict what Sion had concluded after analyzing her Spirit Origin.
Click to expand...
She is the genuine Kama. Everything points to that Kama came from the Indian Lostbelt. Shiva is gone, meaning no one can suppress Mara. Mara awakens as a Beast, and what else comes with awakening as a Beast? The ability to traverse between Lostbelts. Every single Beast is a Beast-Class Servant, doesn't make them any less than what they originally were. Goetia is magecraft, Koyanskaya is a convergence and incarnation of the thoughts of animals persecuted by mankind etc
Seracle said:
This is a critical misunderstanding regarding Servant physiology, so let's head back to our good old friend Fate/complete material from FSN.
First of all, at this point, there is no denying that Soul in Nasuverse is a record of an intelligent being which contains concept, information and mind. It's been long accepted in the Nasu global hax thread. And indeed, affecting a Soul requires the ability to affect the soul, concept and information all at once. Sure, I will even admit that affecting Kama soul requires the ability to interact with NEP 1, since her concept is missing.
HOWEVER, in practice, you don't have to affect the soul in order to defeat a Servant, which is the form Kama took in the Ooku event, definitely not a god, as stated by Sion.
Click to expand...
This entire argument is voided because she is a god. Sion never stated she isn't a god. She said herself Kama is a Divine Spirit-Pseudo Servant. She is a Divine Spirit Possessing Sakura. What's the term for that called? Pseudo-Servant. Why did she manifest as a Pseudo-Servant? Because it's after the age of gods and like I said before gods cannot exist on earth
Seracle said:
When a Servant is summoned, they acquire a Spiritl Core (or in the case of Divine Spirit, Divine Core), and sustaining bodily damage inflicts damage to the Core as well, with the heart and brain directly connect to the Core. And when the Core is destroyed, the Heroic Spirit (or Divine Spirit) will no longer be able to materialize and will have to return to the Throne. So battle between Servants is a process of gradually shaving off the magical energy that forms the their bodies.
And why do they need a physical body? Because it is difficult for a spiritual body to affect a material one. That's why Servant materialize to engage in combat.
In this particular case, Kama's body (which she stated that she possessed one in Ooku event) is the materialization of her Soul (Divine Spirit) with the information of "not having a body" engraved in it, which explained the translucent parts of her body. And as I said, she is no where near her "starting point of conception", so only parts of her seem that way. She got her ass kicked in Ooku, her Spirit Core destroyed and her soul lost the ability to materialize, without having to do anything to her Soul.
All and all, my point is clear: Kama HAD a body in Ooku, and she is a SERVANT. Other Servants attacking her doesn't qualify for NEP1 interaction.
That's all I have to say. And I think it would be productive to have some staffs who are knowledgable about the verse to read the arguments, give their opinions and cast their votes.
Click to expand...
Did you even play the event? She says Shiva Incinerated Everything. And a VOID is all thats left. A void is nothingness. Sion isn't omniscient. Sure she confirms Kama's spirit core is destroyed but would you look at that, Kama is fine and Kiara established the connection to allow Kama to be summoned as a Servant.
 
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