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Bleach Mind Manipulation and illusion Resistance.

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Reio35

Reio35

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Okay so in cfyow 3 it's stated that shinjis bankai which is total mind control will not work on people as powerful as hikone,yhwach,aizen ect. Then it's also stated tokinadas KS will not work on people around base aizen and Kenpachi level or higher and we also see aura suppressing his illusions. Byakuya resisted pepe's love which takes control of your mind. So i believe anyone who scales above him should also be given the same resistance.

Now i know someone people will argued yhwach and others were affected by KS but that's because it's being used by aizen who is much stronger than tokinada and shinji he has a higher layer of mind hax.

So mind and illusion resistance for those who scale above tokinada,shinji and pepe
 
To be honest it doesn't sound like there is a resistance involved here, so much as it is just a weakness of the user.

The same ability works just as effectively on Yhwach, like you say. The only thing that's changed is the person wielding the ability.
 
Damage3245 said:
To be honest it doesn't sound like there is a resistance involved here, so much as it is just a weakness of the user.
Click to expand...
That can literally be an argument used to discount any resistance feat...

Tokinada's Enrakyoten is literally stated to weaken or strengthen techniques to his level, so even though it's weird, it doesn't really disprove anything.
 
Damage3245 said:
We already have precedent for what we do with this scenario with Aizen:



We don't give Aizen a Resistance to every ability in Bleach. We just give him this. So let's just do the same here.
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iirc you literally argued to have that removed from Aizen several times in the past, if I'm wrong then I apologize but I'm fairly sure I'm not.

Regardless, this isn't just Aizen, it's Yhwach, Aizen and people on that level, so should we give Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Soul King, Hikone, and maybe a few others the ability to powernull any hax that comes from a character inferior to them? Or should we just give the stated characters resistance to the hax they're stated to resist.
 
iirc you literally argued to have that removed from Aizen several times in the past, if I'm wrong then I apologize but I'm fairly sure I'm not.
Click to expand...

I might be misremembering too but I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure I've been mostly against just giving characters resistances to all types of abilities.
 
The Shinji thing should be added. He specifically states his Bankai would be useless against some like Aizen and Yhwach.

And his Bankai is mind, morality manipulation in the several tens of thousands to several hundred thousands.
 
Damage3245 said:
I might be misremembering too but I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure I've been mostly against just giving characters resistances to all types of abilities.
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Ehh, I'm not really about to dig through several thousand of your posts but I seem to remember you arguing it, regardless, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

As far as I see it, the choices are

Give them blanket resistance to hax from character inferior to them
  1. Give them the ability to powernull abilities from weaker characters
  2. Give them resistance to just the mind hax, since it's said to not work on them.
Personally I think the second option is much better than giving them resistance to a bunch of stuff there's no evidence of, it also doesn't help that Aizen's powernull isn't concrete and has been argued against many times in the past and how it's never ever been demonstrated a single other time by even Aizen himself let alone any other character.
 
Also we already scale resistances via certain criteria anyways. See Absolute Zero.
Click to expand...

That's one of the things that I think should be removed tbh. I don't like the idea of granting resistances based on power level like we do for giving Uryu and the others Resistance to Absolute Zero.
 
Damage3245 said:
That's one of the things that I think should be removed tbh. I don't like the idea of granting resistances based on power level like we do for giving Uryu and the others Resistance to Absolute Zero.
Click to expand...
That should be for a seperate thread tbh but it's currently accepted and thus valid.
 
KingTempest said:
Reminds me of DBZ and resistance to Hax if the Ki is stronger. Seems like inverse mechanics of superior energy.
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Goku has resistance to void manipualtion and existence erasure because of tanking a weak Hakai to be fair, this wiki treats abilities like that even for Dragonball.
The resistance is the first assumptions usually. The paragraph doesn't say it doesn't work because of it is weak.
It is stated it manipulates the very mind.
 
If the hax only fails because of the huge power gap that's not really a resistance (dosen't bleach have a anti hax argument), plus aizen wasn't able to resist shinjis shikai despite shinji was telling him how it works. He just used a stronger hax
 
KingTempest said:
Reminds me of DBZ and resistance to Hax if the Ki is stronger. Seems like inverse mechanics of superior energy.
Click to expand...
This doesn't seem to be the case, so I wouldn't say this is similar to dragon ball series , and how they deal with said hax in bleach. we've seen the complete opposite actually.

Rose's bankai influencing the star knight known as mask de masculine despite the power gap

Shinji's shikai affecting star knight , Bambietta she even uses vollastan which increases spiritual power and still couldn't overcome the influence despite the difference in power she literally one shots shinji

Shinji's shikai also affected aizen who doesn't use spiritual power to counter

Aizen's kyoka suigetsu affecting sk yhawch after he Absorbed a fully amped Gerard via adult bankai toshiro , bankai kenpachi as well as ( hollow merged true shikai ichigo) despite the clear difference in power yhawch is still affected by kyoka suigetsu

Every instance presented here the ones being influenced by said hax never once used spiritual power to overcome said hax despite the clear difference in power we've also kenpachi vs tousen considering kenpachi at this time lowers his spiritual power to match the opposing . Which suggest that different levels spiritual powers can't always overcome hax despite them being stronger or relative ( kenpachi being affected by tousen's bankai is an example of relative spiritual power not being able to counter ) Which is a common troup in fiction tbh when both sides are relative
 
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Reio35 said:
Okay so in cfyow 3 it's stated that shinjis bankai which is total mind control will not work on people as powerful as hikone,yhwach,aizen ect. Then it's also stated tokinadas KS will not work on people around base aizen and Kenpachi level or higher and we also see aura suppressing his illusions. Byakuya resisted pepe's love which takes control of your mind. So i believe anyone who scales above him should also be given the same resistance.

Now i know someone people will argued yhwach and others were affected by KS but that's because it's being used by aizen who is much stronger than tokinada and shinji he has a higher layer of mind hax.

So mind and illusion resistance for those who scale above tokinada,shinji and pepe

My interpretation of tokinada's use of kyoka suigetsu not affecting those with higher levels of spiritual power. was a result of him not being able to harness the power on aizen's level. I took that as an improper use of kyoka suigetsu , unable to use it to it's full extent , the context suggest this weakness was a byproduct of that , meaning it was birth because he lacked the power , aizen's spiritual power
Click to expand...



Reio35 said:
Okay so in cfyow 3 it's stated that shinjis bankai which is total mind control will not work on people as powerful as hikone,yhwach,aizen ect. Then it's also stated tokinadas KS will not work on people around base aizen and Kenpachi level or higher and we also see aura suppressing his illusions. Byakuya resisted pepe's love which takes control of your mind. So i believe anyone who scales above him should also be given the same resistance.

Now i know someone people will argued yhwach and others were affected by KS but that's because it's being used by aizen who is much stronger than tokinada and shinji he has a higher layer of mind hax.

So mind and illusion resistance for those who scale above tokinada,shinji and pepe
Click to expand...
My interpretation of tokinada's use of kyoka suigetsu not affecting those with higher levels of spiritual power. was a result of him not being able to harness the power on aizen's level. I took that as an improper use of kyoka suigetsu , unable to use it to its full extent. the context suggest this weakness was a byproduct of that , meaning it was birth because he lacked the power , aizen's spiritual power .


Pepe vs byakuya altercation with byakuya resisting Pepe's love inducement is something I considered to be a resistance feat ( To that type of inducement, or similar) that belongs to byakuya himself I wouldn't scale that to anyone who is relative to byakuya or above, just because byakuya was above base pepe There are things to consider .

• pepe was able to take control over byakuya's zanpakuto entirely
• pepe's love inducement is stated to be above Gigi's zombification which is mind wipe/ full blown puppetry
• pepe States he can induce those under her zombification
• Gigi's zombification affected Bankai toshiro who is relative to byakuya
• pepe can Induce meninas , known as star knight (p) power who is relative to liltotto , star knight ( glutton) example : she punches liltotto with enough force to draw blood....... Liltotto literally consumes pepe , literally eats him

If your interpretation of spiritual power over "mind hax" was correct. then toshiro wouldn't be affected by Gigi's zombification nor would meninas be affected by pepe's love inducement not to mention pepe wouldn't be able to completely turn byakuya's zanpakuto against himself

This suggests that mind hax resistance in bleach should be measured And treated case by case depending on the individual rather than the collective
 
Sasukesolos said:
My interpretation of tokinada's use of kyoka suigetsu not affecting those with higher levels of spiritual power. was a result of him not being able to harness the power on aizen's level. I took that as an improper use of kyoka suigetsu , unable to use it to its full extent. the context suggest this weakness was a byproduct of that , meaning it was birth because he lacked the power , aizen's spiritual power .


Pepe vs byakuya altercation with byakuya resisting Pepe's love inducement is something I considered to be a resistance feat ( To that type of inducement, or similar) that belongs to byakuya himself I wouldn't scale that to anyone who is relative to byakuya or above, just because byakuya was above base pepe There are things to consider .

• pepe was able to take control over byakuya's zanpakuto entirely
• pepe's love inducement is stated to be above Gigi's zombification which is mind wipe/ full blown puppetry
• pepe States he can induce those under her zombification
• Gigi's zombification affected Bankai toshiro who is relative to byakuya
• pepe can Induce meninas , known as star knight (p) power who is relative to liltotto , star knight ( glutton) example : she punches liltotto with enough force to draw blood....... Liltotto literally consumes pepe , literally eats him

If your interpretation of spiritual power over "mind hax" was correct. then toshiro wouldn't be affected by Gigi's zombification nor would meninas be affected by pepe's love inducement not to mention pepe wouldn't be able to completely turn byakuya's zanpakuto against himself

This suggests that mind hax resistance in bleach should be measured And treated case by case depending on the individual rather than the collective
Click to expand...
While this is all correct, it could simply mean that these characters' hax are more potent than what Tokinada can muster.
 
Sasukesolos said:
If your interpretation of spiritual power over "mind hax" was correct. then toshiro wouldn't be affected by Gigi's zombification nor would meninas be affected by pepe's love inducement not to mention pepe wouldn't be able to completely turn byakuya's zanpakuto against himself
Click to expand...
You are assuming Pepe is weaker than Meninas as you are assuming Gigi is weaker than Toshiro. Liltotto said she "defeated" Meninas after been caught off-guard by her punch and she said Gigi and herself are the "strongest" of the girls. Toshiro was defeated by Cang Du and Bazz-B was doing a lot of damage to him while one of his attack basically did nothing to Liltotto.
 
Unnecessary bump.

It seems more of a weakness of the wielder rather than resistance. It's in the OP. Tokinada's weak so his KS or Shinji's bankai wouldn't affect Aizen tier characters but Aizen himself using his KS affected Yhwach.

Hard disagree
 
The_Alxhemist said:
Unnecessary bump.

It seems more of a weakness of the wielder rather than resistance. It's in the OP. Tokinada's weak so his KS or Shinji's bankai wouldn't affect Aizen tier characters but Aizen himself using his KS affected Yhwach.

Hard disagree
Click to expand...
While it is a weakness of the wielder, it still doesn't take away the statement about characters resisting it. That would just mean KS is more potent in Aizen's hands or that he straight up ignores resistance.
 
The way that Shinji talks about Sakanade more points to the inability of the Bankai to control Yhwach and Aizen being a flaw with the way the bankai functions and less something related to power. Not to mention, he himself more phrases it as a question than a statement. It's like Shinji doesn't know for sure whether or not it will work. So I don't think that's good evidence.

In regards to Tokinada, it is more clearly stated that spiritual pressure of that level breaks KS's ability when in his hands. Once again, that sounds like a flaw in the user not resistance on the part of the opponent, since the technique is being undone instead of simply resisted. The second statement seems to support that point as well.

Don't really recall the fight between Byayukya and Pepe, and the scans don't really say much in terms of how Byayukya resisted so not sure about that one at the moment.
 
Damage3245 said:
To be honest it doesn't sound like there is a resistance involved here, so much as it is just a weakness of the user.

The same ability works just as effectively on Yhwach, like you say. The only thing that's changed is the person wielding the ability.
Click to expand...
I share the same sentiments.
 
Sasukesolos said:
This doesn't seem to be the case, so I wouldn't say this is similar to dragon ball series , and how they deal with said hax in bleach. we've seen the complete opposite actually.

Rose's bankai influencing the star knight known as mask de masculine despite the power gap

Shinji's shikai affecting star knight , Bambietta she even uses vollastan which increases spiritual power and still couldn't overcome the influence despite the difference in power she literally one shots shinji

Shinji's shikai also affected aizen who doesn't use spiritual power to counter

Aizen's kyoka suigetsu affecting sk yhawch after he Absorbed a fully amped Gerard via adult bankai toshiro , bankai kenpachi as well as ( hollow merged true shikai ichigo) despite the clear difference in power yhawch is still affected by kyoka suigetsu

Every instance presented here the ones being influenced by said hax never once used spiritual power to overcome said hax despite the clear difference in power we've also kenpachi vs tousen considering kenpachi at this time lowers his spiritual power to match the opposing . Which suggest that different levels spiritual powers can't always overcome hax despite them being stronger or relative ( kenpachi being affected by tousen's bankai is an example of relative spiritual power not being able to counter ) Which is a common troup in fiction tbh when both sides are relative
Click to expand...
then you're misunderstanding literally every single example, cause the whole point is the gap isn't great enough as to let you resist the ability. You can't break out of a hax in bleach by being 1.0000000000000000000001x as strong as your opponet, you need to be far above them
 
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