Skill Wars: A New Skill

Continued from here

Combat applicable skills only

Based on impressive skill feats and scaling from them. Experience statements & connceptual feats won't be accepted

One per verse

Major candidates are

1. Edelweiss (Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry)/Ikki Kurogane

2. Sasaki Kojirou (Record of Ragnarok)

3. Yujiro Hanma/Fugil Arcadia/'Taskmaster

4. Mori Ji/Saber (Musashi Miyamoto)/Jax (League of Legends)/'Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel)

5. Pray Mayer

6.Vash the Stampede

7.Garou

8. Future Warrior (Xenoverse 2)

9. Eldrad Ulthra

10. Karate Kid (Pre-Crisis)

11.Kenshiro (Hokuto no Ken)

12. Tommy Oliver

13.Leo (Armed With Wings)

14. Sun Wukong (Myth)

15. Protagonist (Mysteries of Baroque)

Xue Ying

Oryx, the Taken King

Kars (JORGE JOESTAR)

Dry Leonhard

Phoenix Ikki

Twenty-Fifth Baam (Season 3)

Juuzou Shishimi

Han Jee-Ha

Nanami Yasuri

Johnny Joestar

The Chosen One (Animator vs. Animation)

Nanashi (Shin Megami Tensei)

Darth Sidious

Master Oogway

Agent 47

Composite Human

SCP-076

So... who needs to be placed where?

Jax was agreed to be at or near number 1

I don't see why Pray, or Vash are above Rimuru and Hinata. Same with Yujiro.

WeeklyBattles said:

Jax was agreed to be at or near number 1

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Ahh yeah, I'll get on that

Milly Rocking Bandit said:

I don't see why Pray, or Vash are above Rimuru and Hinata. Same with Yujiro.

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Yujiro was agreed to place along Fugil and Task for second. Where would you place Rim, and what's the argument

Edit: Third, sorry

Also, as we agreed before, only one character per franchise.

Ikki or Edel?

Pheonix Ikki?? But Shiryu has more skill than him.. Though all Saints are forced to learn hand to hand combat i guess

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

Pheonix Ikki?? But Shiryu has more skill than him.. Though all Saints are forced to learn hand to hand combat i guess

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I was referring to Ikki Kurogane or Edel for 1st place

BakiHanma18 said:

Milly Rocking Bandit said:

I don't see why Pray, or Vash are above Rimuru and Hinata. Same with Yujiro.

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Yujiro was agreed to place along Fugil and Task for second. Where would you place Rim, and what's the argument
Edit: Third, sorry

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I would definitely place Rimuru above Yujiro, I don't believe he should take second.

I mistyped, theyre in third.

What places Rim above Vash?

Here's a copy paste.


Nope, it's a lot more than that. He learned to evade Gazel's attack that completely and utterly negs Magic Sense (360 view of vision on an atomic level that takes in so much information the characters actually have a RESISTANCE to this, and can be extended even further) and his analytical prediction, which he got from Hakurou, Gazel's sensei.

Futhermore, he also learned Sense Soundwave to keep up with Hakurou, who repeatedly stomped him in swordplay. Rimuru also learned to use Melt Slash upon his first usage of it, and could've killed Hinata with it (someone who was still pressuring him even with 1,000,000 thought perception, and both layers of analytical prediction).

In the last thread, where I mentioned he copied entire contents of libraries wasn't just intelligence, but he knew how to perfectly use each and every one of them.

BakiHanma18 said:

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

Pheonix Ikki?? But Shiryu has more skill than him.. Though all Saints are forced to learn hand to hand combat i guess

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I was referring to Ikki Kurogane or Edel for 1st place

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i saw Pheonix Ikki of saint seiya on the list

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

BakiHanma18 said:

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

Pheonix Ikki?? But Shiryu has more skill than him.. Though all Saints are forced to learn hand to hand combat i guess

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I was referring to Ikki Kurogane or Edel for 1st place

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i saw Pheonix Ikki of saint seiya on the list

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Oh yeah he's there. I'll address himand Shiryu later

I'd place someone with these feats at Jin's level based on what I read from him.

Magic Sense sounds like a power (but I could be wrong) and as for the other part, this seems like Rim's AP is superior to a master level AP, so a good skill feat

Soundwave Sense is also good, as he is able to develop a skill to match someone more skilled than him. 1st time Melt Slash is another good one, learning a move in one try is always a good feat.

The library feat is due to Great Sage and Glutton, so I'm not sure about that one. It also doesn't seem combat applicable.

Look and learns are always good skill feats.

His AP seems impressive for sure.

That's just him copying them, but if you don't count it, that's fine.

Magic Sense IS a power, but negging it with sheer swordsmanship? That's skill.

Milly Rocking Bandit said:

Magic Sense IS a power, but negging it with sheer swordsmanship? That's skill.

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If that's the case, that's also very good. I'd say that Rimuru is even skilled enough to surpass Jin (though I have limited knowledge of Jin). I'll definitely be moving Rimuru to 4th as long as everyone agree, I'm a little weary of moving Jin down, but from what I'm seeing, Rim is at least >= Jin

When was Jax agreed to be number 1? I'm pretty sure we didn't agree with it just Weekly and Cal.

Sense Soundwave and Melt Slash doesn't seem like skill, the description of it isn't skill. Melt Slash is literally Desintegration in a sword, where is the skill?

Ionliosite said:

Sense Soundwave and Melt Slash doesn't seem like skill, the description of it isn't skill. Melt Slash is literally Desintegration in a sword, where is the skill?

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He learned that through sword combat, and Melt Slash is basically that, yes.

Ionliosite said:

When was Jax agreed to be number 1? I'm pretty sure we didn't agree with it just Weekly and Cal.

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You can refute it if you'd like, I can change places at any point

question, how do you debate if someone is more skillled than another character?? I want to learn the ways how to debate a characters skill level lol

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

question, how do you debate if someone is more skillled than another character?? I want to learn the ways how to debate a characters skill level lol

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A fairly decent way so far we've devised is strength, speed, and durability equalized, no hax fight

what if their is an ability inheirt to their physiology as a being and their energy they use for hax is their life force for living and also stems from a unique physiology??

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

what if their is an ability inheirt to their physiology as a being and their energy they use for hax is their life force for living and also stems from a unique physiology??

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Physiology I'd say no, like Yujiro negating reaction time, Demon Back amping, and resisting poison and lightning isn't a skill, he was born with it

Ok, againts all of Jax feats: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3681590#136

1. Fugil started using Drag-Knights at age 14 making him the youngest Drag-Knight at the time. He self-taught how to use a Drag-Ride and with that a Divine Drag-Ride, also mastering multiple weapons like swords, daggers, etc. At that age he became the most skilled Drag-Knight and keep training to make him better, take into account that basically everyone he fought were in constant war with decades of experience. He also made his Hidden Techniques from scratch. Also, take into account that Fugil now has over 1000 years of battle experience. Fugil can hit a lot of pressure points without killing his opponent while using Violent Strike.

2. Fugil is also extremely analitical he can see weakpoints despite not seeing his opponents. He attacked Singlen despite the fact he couldn't see him and reacted to his attacks despite being frozen. Fugil's senses are better than Lux's and Lux can do that, Lux did it againts Yoruka, she has such stealth mastery that not even people who can detect invisibles can detect her, and yet Lux can.

3. Fugil masters every type of weapon swords, daggers, lances, pistols, cannons, even non-conventional things like anchors at the instance he enters a new Drag-Ride (if he didn't mastered from before). Fugil was capable of using Typhon to fight physically againts the Paladins, and one of them was a master martial artist that trained Philuffy (the original owner of Typhon) and still was more skilled than her.

4. I don't know how can you use magic by sheer skill (since that doesn't make sense), but eh. Fugil fought againts the greatest Drag-Knights in existence at the same time, he defeated them while treating them like nothing. At the very instant of the battle Fugil alredy had Greifer's weakness and used it againts him.

5. That's just good hearing, and Fugil literally found Singlen's mist's weakness the very instant he activated it.

6. That's what Chaos Brand is, a blade larger than Fugil, he can still wield it. Fugil's skill was so great that he was deemed as the perfect Drag-Knight and the XFer gave him Ouroboros because of that. Fugil in base can already defeat one of the Seven Dragon Paladins, blocking a blow of a Divine Drag-Rid deespite the difference in mass and strenghts and he defeated her.

7. Fugil's blade skills allowed him to fight againts the six most skilled Drag-Knights of their countries at the same time and he is basically the most skilled Drag-Knight in the world. Fugil literally killed people after going out of a cryonegisation, Fugil is also extremely skilled with basically every weapon since Drag-Rides have different weapons and some of them have multiple of them, and not only that, he is also extremely skilled with things like anchors. Fugil turned down the enviroment created by Singlen, Singlen created mist and rain that blocked Fugil's vision and being capable of comprenhed Fugil's movement and position, Fugil still countered that by slowing down the rain completely misdirecting Singlen, and he was capable of doing that in the instant Singlen activated the technique, and Fugil battle style adapts to the battle style that adapts to his own.

8. Fugil already defeated the best armies in the world and the best group of Drag-Knights of the world, the Seven Dragon Paladins and Aeril.

9. Fugil masters every type of Drag-Ride in the planet, including Divine Drag-Rides when only mastering one type of Divine Drag-Ride requires extraordinary stamina, mental strength, and skill. And he outskills Mishis who knows how to counter every Drag-Ride in existence.

10. Fugil outmatched Singlen who is superior in skill to Mishis.

11. Fugil dodged and attacked while his vision was completely blocked by a thick mist and his opponent could predict his movements. And he should be more skilled than Lux throwing things like Daggers, since Fugil is Lux 2.0.

12. Only mastering one type of Divine Drag-Ride requires extraordinary stamina, mental strength, and skill; and Fugil masters them all. That's literally his battle style, just that he can find openings or weaknesses without actually seeing the person like he did with againts Greifer's Invulnerability and Singlen's mist.

13. Fugil literally casually outskilled Mishis, who he praised by almost touching him, and also outskilled the Seven Dragon Paladins, which he recognized as the most skilled opponents he ever faced with little difficulty. Fugil mastered the use of a Divine Drag-Ride at age 14 when he started wielding Drag-Rides at... age 14, and outskilled every Drag-Knight there was.

There's more about Fugil.

Ion you absolute savage. BTW, as a knowledgeable person of Fugil, after the discussion we had earlier, I'd like to clarify: do you believe Yujiro and Fugil are the same (or similar) in skill?

what abotu gaining abilities after getting beaten to near death?? such as unlocking an additional power through unyeilding courage, or unlocking low-godly regen by being near death??

(Just want to also say im new to debating purely only skill lol)

I do believe they are similar, yes, they pretty much equal in almost everything, there are some things Fugil is above Yujiro just like how there are some things Yujiro is above Fugil. I personally see them being equal to be alright.

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:

what abotu gaining abilities after getting beaten to near death?? such as unlocking an additional power through unyeilding courage, or unlocking low-godly regen by being near death??
(Just want to also say im new to debating purely only skill lol)

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That description sounds like a power, but maybe if I had more details, I'd be able to decent for sure

if i have anymore questions. i can go to your message wall if that is alright?

if i have anymore questions. i can go to your message wall if that is alright?
Definitely

So to repost my arguments for Fate characters,

Characters that literally feel what the right choice to make in combat is due to muscle memory combined with experience, can skill their way to victory against an opponent with a 99% chance of beating them, make use of openings a fraction of an inch wide, and redirect blows from opponents with oneshot-level strength advantages are roughly mid-tier in terms of skill.

Above them you have Atalanta:

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"Her skill is so great that she is able to strike targets in a dense forest from an extreme distance that they appear as moving dots during nighttime with perfect precision. Her technique is as natural as flowing water, allowing her to rapid fire arrows in a similar fashion to a machine gun and fire through gaps between her allies without hitting them. During her fight against Spartacus, she demonstrated her quick thinking by quickly setting up what would normally be a killing blow, by disarming him before using her superior speed to grab his sword and pin him down by exploiting his Regenerationn"

Chiron:

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a master of Pankration, the oldest mixed martial art in Greece. With it he's able to fight the likes of Mordred to a draw, breaking her arm while setting her up for a finishing blow at the cost of injuring his own shoulder, forcing a draw. He is able to combine this with his archery, sending Achilles flying with a kick before attempting to shoot his heel while the latter was still in mid-air

As well as the likes of Gawain, Siegfried, Tristan, and Billy the Kid, who have shattered the human limits of skill (thus becoming Desperados). Billy can slow down his perception of time with skill to be able to make at least three attacks in the amount of time another opponent of equal speed can make one. Tristan, despite using a deliberately inefficient weapon, outskills opponents on Chiron's level with his eyes closed, and his eyes opening when he aims is practically a death sentence.

All of them are surpassed by...

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Sherlock Holmes, who can unleash attacks on the level of Noble Phantasms with pure martial arts setups.

Lancelot, who can wield any object he can even remotely think of as a weapon as though it were an extension of his body that he's spent his entire life mastering, and whose technique is ingrained into every aspect of his body, a complete merger of his body, mind, and skills that allows him to make perfect use of his abilities even when under the effects of mental interference.

Achilles, who can adapt to an opponent's fighting style in seconds, even one who already knows and taught him all of his moves, and can duel multiple Servants at once, with his strikes considered "unavoidable" by the likes of them.

Whomst are outskilled by

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Karna, who can easily outmaneuver individuals like Siegfried and strike 78 of their weakpoints in an instant.

Arjuna, whose skills in archery are so great it's as precise and accurate to the point his arrows become the equivalent of homing missiles, allowing him to easily repel bullets shot by Billy the Kid before killing him. Even in close range, where archers are at disadvantage is he able to calmly fire arrows while moving at high speeds. His great combat skill allows him to fight his older brother, Karna in close range somewhat equally his disadvantage in close combat as an archer

Rama, who has mastered combat to the point that even any normal weapons can be maneuvered to do damage like a Noble Phantasm and wielded on the level of Karna's spear or Arjuna's bow.

Sigurd, who can defeat the likes of Siegfried and Sherlock in a single move, and can process enough tactical battlefield information to drive a highly-trained warrior to agonizing migraines, instantly and with no effort. He is able to flawlessly switch between wielding Gram as a greatsword and splitting it apart into daggers that he either wields like an assassin or flings to ricochet around the battlefield, continually catching and trading them out as he fights.

And now things get really bonkers

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Yagyu is able to react to any opponent and wield his sword without exerting any force on his body, allowing him to swiftly cut down his opponent before they can tell when he draws it, to the extent that he is able to cut down seven comparable warriors in an instant. He is able to read, reflect, and counter every enemy movement the second it occurs

Okita not only moves with perfect efficiency, but created a technique that consists of three concealed sword thrusts, produced by transcendent technique and speed that surpasses the ability of any normal human swordsman. Instead of occurring consecutively, one right after the other, all three thrusts occur at the same time at the same position. Even if the first thrust was blocked, the second and third would break through, and the contradiction caused by this results in a breakdown of causality at the tip of Okita's sword, making it virtually impossible to defend against. As it results in the collapse of causal relationships, the destruction it causes is not limited to physical things.

Okada Izou can learn an entire style of swordsmanship, even those on the level of Servants, by glancing at a single move contained within it. His movements are completely at one with his sword, and were such since he first began swinging it.

As for Li Shuwen, all of his hard strikes, even those meant as feints, are capable of killing an opponent via forcing all of his body's Qi and latent energy into each strike. He also can read his immediate environment in fine detail, perceiving every aspect so that he can best minimize the impact of his existence. This ability allows him to become effectively completely invisible and indiscernible, and as it is reached purely through the mastery of martial arts, it produces no magical energy and is thereby unrecognizable by magical means. It is a skill that has far surpassed human possibility. He is capable of making use of it in the middle of a heated battle, disappearing in the blink of an eye and easily getting the drop on his enemies

Hozoin Inshun, who through his own eleven techniques, which were extolled as "a spear that reached the realm of Gods and Buddhas", is able to cope with any enemy he encounters and calmly and accurately ward off their attacks. The techniques are even able to deal with disadvantages such as facing an enemy for the first time or being exposed to bizarre techniques, strange weapons or magecraft. It's said that no matter what the attack is, Inshun is able to ward it off and deal a deadly blow in return.

Grand finale time...

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All of them are laughably and utterly transcended by the skills of Miyamoto Musashi and Sasaki Kojirou. Both of them possess skill that is considered infinite by the rest of the verse, and can bend time and space, interfere with parallel universes, cut through fate, determine virtually everything about an opponent with a clash, even if their weapon is invisible, and have mental states that are read as literal nothingness by information analysts. Kojirou achieved this level with no formal training and only three years of practice, while Musashi surpassed him when they fought. Both of them have skills that are capable of enforcing fates of inescapable death on the gods themselves, and are considered to be untouchable in-universe.

Oh dear, sorry for the walls of text. Those were supposed to be inside the little show/hide things

Edit, nevermind it did work

Also forgot Arash, who can effortlessly counter a massive hailstorm of arrows from Atalanta, a barrage from Chiron, and a series of vacuum arrows from Tristan (the latter of whom home in on targets at high speeds and is more skilled than Chiron) with thousands of arrows fired lazily in an instant. Can fire arrows into the sky so that they come down and wipe out an entire city's population, an arrow for each person, and then shoot all these arrows out of the sky if he wants before they hit their targets.

And, again, outskilled by Musashi and Kojirou.

The "bonkers" tier characters are pretty impressive and would place top 15 no question, but I don't know how to tackle MM and SK. There skill places them head and shoulders into the top 10, but their best feats of skill from what I'm seeing seem unquantifiable or impossible to be the result of solely skill with nothing supernatural involved

That is very true, which is why I think we should mostly just rely on the scaling involved, considering that they basically are to the others what Edelweiss is to Ikki, Fugil is to Lux, Yujiro is to Baki, etc.

Hmmmmm... where would you place them? I have pretty good knowledge of the higher places verses, so I might be able to help with placement, but initially, where would you put them?

Oth place

Eyeballing it, probably alongside Jin Mori. I'd like to place them alongside Yujiro, but I'll wait a bit before getting that ambitious.

Here's my quandary...

I think that most of the stuff the other top tiers can do is possible for at least one Servant, and Musahi and Kojirou outskill all of them concurrently (specifically Zero Musashi and Infinity Kojirou, who have never been fully depicted fighting onscreen)

Is it worth mentioning that Musashi and Kojirou's duel caused a skill paradox that warped them into a dimension of eternal dueling where they would have fought forever, improving past infinity all the while?