Who is the most skilled character in fiction?

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well, this basically says it all.

"Tactimon is considered to be one of the greatest commanders and tacticians amongst Digimon, so much so that it is thought that even the largest-scale battles are already decided when Tactimon is at the helm, even when compared to the Royal Knights' tactician Leopardmon. He is also incredibly skilled with a blade, being able to match experienced swordsmen like Omegamo and Ulforceveedramo on even ground and easily overwhelmed Team Xros Heart in their first encounter. It is noted by official sources that his ingenuity is so amazing, that he wins battles even before the battle begins."

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Almost all of that is literally what i told you to avoid.

Being better than those 2 guys, is a skill feat, but do those guys have anything impressive on their own?

Winning the battle before it even begins, can say many things. But even at the highest it's still just analytical prediction, nothing that can guarantee top spot.

The "he is a great tactician and has taken part in many battles and wins them if he's there" is something that can be said for literally just about any great tactician in fiction. Hell i can say that for a fodder woman from Rakudai.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Being better than those 2 guys, is a skill feat, but do those guys have anything impressive on their own? "

Did you bother going to the other two profiles? How about two characters who have spent 10,000+ years honing their skills and fighting many threats such as Lucemon, the other SGDL and even Yggdrasil herself? Where do you start to measure the skill of an opponent. How about the fact that Digimon can literally mimic any ability or technique upon seeing it once. This literally extends to basic stances to specific attacks that require certain skill levels.

"Winning the battle before it even begins, can say many things. But even at the highest it's still just analytical prediction, nothing that can guarantee top spot."

And this does not count as skill how? Would ingenuity not be apart of skill?

"The "he is a great tactician and has taken part in many battles and wins them if he's there" is something that can be said for literally just about any great tactician in fiction. Hell i can say that for a fodder woman from Rakudai. "

This would still require some skill, especially from someone who notably fights on the front lines.

 

[Crabwhale]

Khorne coughs

Legit though, just like last time, think about it: how much more skilled than the concept of war can you get?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>10'000+ years of honning their skills

Not only is as i've said before experience not quantifiable cus it's just you headcannoning on "he should be able to do many things cus he has fought a lot" instead of "he ca do this", but even the OP says "no experience".

>Doesn't count as skill.

Eh? When did i say that? I literaly said "nothing that can guarantee the top spot". So it's a skill feat if we assume it's analytical prediction, but it's really nothing all that impressive.

>Fights on the front lines.

This is basically the same as experience. It just implies he's good, just not how good. And even it's still as i said something that can be said for just about every tactician ever (just add the on the front lines now). The OP is "the most skilled characters". It's nothing exactly incredible.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Khorne coughs
Legit though, just like last time, think about it: how much more skilled than the concept of war can you get?

Same as how you can get more skilled than "omniscient". You're limited to what you verse has shown in terms of combat skill.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Not only is as i've said before experience not quantifiable cus it's just you headcannoning on "he should be able to do many things cus he has fought a lot" instead of "he can do this", but even the OP says "no experience"."

Way to ignore what I said. Never once did I say anything about experience. I flat out told you what the Royal Knights do. The series constantly notes that the skill level of a Royal Knight is literally one of the highest skill levels and is something to aspire to. It's not headcanon, it's a fact. Also I disagree with us making experience mean nothing as experience should in fact play a role, especially if we are talking about warriors who have fought for that long. This is flawed and beyond arbitrary. Where do we start counting skill? X character solos an entire army? How do we know each soldier is a highly skilled warrior? Defeats a skilled martial artist? How do we measure how skilled a master martial artist is? Where does this skill come from? What puts Goku on the list, yet Tactimon doesn't get on the list despite having similar feats? What puts Nanashi on the list and not Tactimon? How can we definitively say one verse's skill feats are better than the other like Ikki's idiotic skill logic when that is verse specific?

"Eh? When did i say that? I literaly said "nothing that can guarantee the top spot". So it's a skill feat if we assume it's analytical prediction, but it's really nothing all that impressive."

I never said you said that? I asked a question. And when did I say that guaranteed him the spot, this is merely supporting evidence to his skill.

"This is basically the same as experience. It just implies he's good, just not how good. And even it's still as i said something that can be said for just about every tactician ever (just add the on the front lines now)"

Alone this is nothing, but it's not all that supporrts this.

 

[Nico-v11]

Vash the Stampede

His shooting aim is so good, he can shoot through a wire hanging from a space ship that's floating in the stratosphere, from a position on the ground. He's redirected missiles with his bullets, shot the fuses off several airborne pieces of dynamite before they could hit the ground, and shot thousands of rounds through the same exact spot on a target without missing at all.

If you're going by actual skill feats, this guy goofs most of the people here.

You've got to add those feats to the profile. That's like premium skill feat discussion material right there.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also, there are more things with skill than just combat. Tactics play a role in skill. Analysis plays a role in skill as well as how you use it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bayonetta vs Vash in a shooting contest

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Maybe he's not making it into this list, but when it comes to pure skill, ACTUAL swordsmanship/hand to hand fighting and spirit then Jetstream Sam needs some respect. Dude is just a human in nanosuit, with only cyborgized hand (that only makes him WEAKER, by the way), can fight fully equipped Ripper Mode Raiden with his BARE HANDS for a good time (and Raiden's further cyborgizations were mainly meant to defeat Sam, because previously Sam stomped him with no difficulty), match him even though Raiden himself got far superior reactions, physical prowess and is overall a cyborg who was trained since day 1 by absolute monsters like Solidus Snake and was an extremely powerful soldier even BEFORE receiving his cyborg enhancements, he cut off Senator Armstrong's hand (who greatly resists effects of HF Blades due to nanomachines, son) and did way better than Raiden against him (Jack won only because he got Sam's sword, before that Senator was overwhelming him heavily), also Sam can casually cut through multiple bullets fired at him even without having enhanced reactions by cyborgization and easily destroys many armored cyborg men at once while also cutting through their bullets and blocking swords. This guy is a beast.

Nah man, whoever tf built the helipad that Armstrong and Sam fought on is clearly the most skilled character in fiction. That thing took a beating from 2 Tier 7 characters and at the end of the fight was still so clean you could eat off of it

 

[Schnee_One]

Also, there are more things with skill than just combat. Tactics play a roll in skill. Analysis plays a role and skill as well as how you use it.

On top of what kind of fighter you are.

As amazing as Vash is there is no point in comparing him to sword fighter, because they're both completely different.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also, there are more things with skill than just combat. Tactics play a roll in skill. Analysis plays a role and skill as well as how you use it.

Yes but cooking skill is also skill. We're evaluating skill that matters in combat. As in if X character were to be in a fight against Y SBA style, exactly what could he do in this fight. That is the idea.

 

[Schnee_One]

If you're implying tactics don't matter in combat.....

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Fire

Okay, so cooking is a skill. That changes nothing about what I said about tactics and analysis as well as character and usage of skill.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Fire
Okay, so cooking is a skill. That changes nothing about what I said about tactics and analysis as well as character and usage of skill.

Tactics may depend is the idea. There are people who need hours to form a strategy to win a 10'000 vs 100'000 man war. That's not 1v1 combat applicable.

That's what i was saying. Leading skills and group management which is what most wars need aren't applicable in 1v1.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway back to the point. Anyone against Ikki Kurogane for the top spot?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I would put the literal concept of war over a kid who learned to cut concept based on skill which is still stupid to me and shouldn't be quantifiable for other verses where this logic does not apply.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

A lot of characters have feats above him

 

[SpookyShadow]

Nah man, whoever tf built the helipad that Armstrong and Sam fought on is clearly the most skilled character in fiction. That thing took a beating from 2 Tier 7 characters and at the end of the fight was still so clean you could eat off of it

No credit for that place where Monsoon and Jack fought? It literally withstood all electromagnetic things thrown at it with no scratch. Most skilled character in fiction.

 

[Ionliosite]

Being the concept of war is "unquantificable" in itself tho.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I would put the literal concept of war over a kid who learned to cut concept based on skill which is still stupid to me and shouldn't be quantifiable for other verses where this logic does not apply.

Ikki cut concepts? He never did that. You're probably thinking of Juuzou.

Also you're using pretty words of "concept of war in x verse by default sounds more impressive". Which is unquantifiable.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And again, we go by feats of mastering x, y and z in X time, but how does that apply to skill in a 1 v 1 fight aside from learning how your opponent fight and predict how they will move. This becomes analysis. Outsmarting your opponent becomes tactics. We go through this long chain of x beat y who did this for x years and mastered z for years, ad nauseum. The issue is that...how do we decide where we stop?

Master Swordsman beat this Master Swordsman who beat this Master Swordsman who beat this--you get where I am coming from. Who decides this? Especially when you are doing cross-verse comparisons. There comes a point when our reasonings for why someone can or cannot be considered skilled becomes arbitrary. Especially when we start getting into context within separate franchises. When we start getting into "higher levels" of skill, the differentiation starts to become nothing but subjective and meaningless and simply becomes a contest of people trying to out-dick each other by listing x feat that someone else denies as a skill feat or doesn't see as something that counts towards a higher skill threshold. This doesn't even take into account how there are countless interpretations of what counts as skill and only supports one person's subjective view on skill and doesn't account for everyone else's standards in an attempt to sound objective when dealing with the skill of fictional characters.

How do we decide to take a statement literally. How about when official sources note a character is extremely skilled in X. How do we rate that and those above them. How do we justify someone being above them?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The point is "X did in seconds, what took Y a thousand years". It beomes pretty clear who's the more skilled person there.

Though the reason I say ikki for first is because well, on a normal level, he has just about every skill possible. From marksmanship, to sword arts, to martial arts, to spear, kodachi and just about every sword style ever including long swords, rapiers and more. Body control feats, insane IQ, instinctive reaction, unconscious fighting and copying, unconscious calculating, bullshit sensing abilities and many many more.

The reason he is also 1st for all his tiers in the most skilled per tier list, because with the amount of skills he has, most of the time no matter what you bring up, he will have already done or outdone it at a casual point in the series.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That doesn't make you more skilled. It just means it took you less time to reach said skill level.

How has he outdone it? What puts him above another verse character? When do we start counting his "skill" as a mere ability? So now it quanitiy as well that matters? The number of skills matter as well. Intellect matters as well? Sensing matters as well? Body Control matters as well?

 

[SpookyShadow]

It means you have massively supernatural physical prowess and talent, not necessarily that you are more skilled. It's a feat no human can do.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That doesn't make you more skilled. It just means it took you less time to reach said skill level.
How has he outdone it? What puts him above another verse character? When do we start counting his "skill" as a mere ability?

Yes, but it's still skill. X is practically a genius in comparison, that's the idea.

Either done the same in less time or plainly did something muchbetter. His feats. Well never, he does it strictly by being good, it's something everyone can do, if they were as skilled.;

 

[Ionliosite]

Though the reason I say ikki for first is because well, on a normal level, he has just about every skill possible. From marksmanship, to sword arts, to martial arts, to spear, kodachi and just about every sword style ever including long swords, rapiers and more. Body control feats, insane IQ, instinctive reaction, unconscious fighting and copying, unconscious calculating, bullshit sensing abilities and many many more.

Fugil also have things like that, just replace uncouncious with frozen in ice and there it is.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So ugh...ya wanna go? xD

 

[Ionliosite]

I was about to do it in the Most Skilled thread after I was ready with the LoL characters.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I also honestly feel like the method Earl describes seems pretty reasonable and clear cut.

But Earl you gotta be open to the notion that other characters can outskill Ikki

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

When do we start getting into special treatment territory. Just because he can do that via skill in his verse and someone can't doesn't make him more skilled simply due to some verse giving certain powers via skill that is blatantly nonsensical elsewhere?

There comes a point to which this no longer counts as skill and simply becomes an ability.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But Earl you gotta be open to the notion that other characters can outskill Ikki

Nah, y'all just gotta understand that the notion is wrong

I say "who against ikki" as a way to open the debate instead of actually doing votes.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

When do we start getting into special treatment territory. Just because he can do that via skill in his verse and someone can't doesn't make him more skilled simply due to some verse giving certain powers via skill that is blatantly nonsensical elsewhere?
There comes a point to which this no longer counts as skill and simply becomes an ability.

Depends, Ikki's skill is mostly universal, take out a thing or 2 and you have things that would be possible in just about any verse by virtue of they are technically possible irl (they abide by the real life world laws).

But so if something makes at least some form of sense it's ok. If we literally get to "goes from normal human to sorcorer via skill" then it's just plain in verse logic as you don't get other things added to you via skill.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I was about to do it in the Most Skilled thread after I was ready with the LoL characters.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What makes him more skilled than other marksmen? What makes him more skilled than other swordsmen? What makes him more skilled than other martial artists? What makes being able to learn something while unconcious make him more skilled instead of it being nothing more than a special ability. Body Control? What type of control. What about being who lack the same body composition as him? Why does him mastering various swords style make him more skilled just because he chose to focus on more styles than another? How about characters like literally ll weapon weilding Digimon who are born with their craft mastered and whom can copy any ability or technique from any style just by observation.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Those are a LOT of questions. But all redundant "what makes him better". Feats. There is a whole blog on his some of his skill feats. Read up on it.

But volume 2 (out of 11 translated novels), he looks at a girl's stance, helps her perfect it at a glance while keeping in mind anatomy and muscle structure and copies the whole sword style (from looking at the stance and by copy it means understands it's history and ideas that lead up to the creation of the style) including all it's secret techniques and the ultimate technique which not even the owner of the stance was capable of performing, despite having never seen such any of the techniques.

Casual feat btw. This is just his copying feats among many more feats. The reason Ikki stands so high, is literally just that, "feats". Most types of feats he has already done at some point in the series, so it's just hard to have a character with anything more.

And in case you're wondering yes he does have a TON of statements as well. Like being the ultimate skill or being at a level where training can't get you to etc.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Once again, this becomes ability and not skill. He can get all this via seeing a stance? This is a special ability and not skill.

But whatever, at this point. Everything about the verse sounds very unappealing at this point and I don't feel like touching it. If we count that as skill, so be it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well you can understand a lot from a stance as a stance is made for a style for a reason. Ppl can usually understand moves or types of hits that will be coming from the stance. Ikki just understands the style as a whole instead of single techniques.

So it's basically back to what I said ikki's skill is theoretically possible as it doesn't go to stuff like law manip via skill or other stupidity via skill. It's all possible in theory however strictly only in theory or logically possible. It's kind of like being capable of using 100% of energy without loss. It's nothing insane but practice doesn't allow that.

 

[SpookyShadow]

It's not possible by any means. There wasn't any human that has such superhuman capabilities as Ikki. Or maybe there is and I don't know about him