Tokyo Revengers Speed Calcs Conclusion

[CorbinMLG]

Anyway, I will try to explain the Izana bullet outspeeding feat later. I'm waiting for a response regarding the Draken calculation.

Mikey has been stated to be faster than eye, and he should be able to react to attacks with similar speeds, but he could barely block that kick from Izana.

Bringing this up again for the dashing calculation. Statements don't count as calculation hiding, thus this should be fine unless anyone has any other issues with it.

 

[Chariot190]

Also I agree with Dale

 

[Dalesean027]

Also I agree with Dale

He might not be able to, but I can.

Every time a gun is used in JoJo by a character who knows what they're doing, it is immediately followed by the character who just used it saying how absolute dogshit they are and that they shouldn't have even bothered. To list a few examples.
Miyamoto using a gun against CD via surprise attack point-blank and going "ok yeah a gun can't do shit to it" (And his main purpose was to spook Josuke, not to harm anyway).
MiuMiu unloading her gun at Jolyne (who mind you, is way slower than most other Stands) and SF caching them all, with it established already they're useless on her (She then proceeds to block a bunch more).
Mista saying a power type would inherently be capable of blocking bullets (After a Power-Type knocks bullets out of the air by spitting shit at them, and then like, just blitzing them and moving out of the way)

And so on. The only times a gun is used in JoJo are by those who have absolutely no ******* idea what they're up against, or with a bunch of caveats, like the character in question being half dead and to weak to do anything, or as just a means of distraction.
Nobody in JoJo rolls up to a Stand and actually uses a gun with the intent the gun is going to do anything at all against anybody worth a damn, the very first feat a Stand ever did was showing how utterly useless guns were.

The only exceptions to this are Hol Horse (who's gun ain't exactly normal), Mista (who's able to accelerate his bullets drastically via Sex Pistols, and he still ends up failing to the point it's an actual joke and he needs to use his bullets in unconventional ways to do anything half the time).

Bruh, it's because she was like half-dead.
Pucci even points out if she can even dodge it given her extreme wounds and mobius strip. Aka, he knows she can avoid it normally, but due to the fact she's like, bleeding out all over and is heavily injured, he isn't sure that she can, turns out he was right, Jolyne while turned inside ain't exactly up to par. This ain't an outlier, it's just basic anime "character to weak to do thing they normally can".

Ya'll keep JoJo out of this, we are not the same.

REAL!!!!

 

[CorbinMLG]

He might not be able to, but I can.

Every time a gun is used in JoJo by a character who knows what they're doing, it is immediately followed by the character who just used it saying how absolute dogshit they are and that they shouldn't have even bothered. To list a few examples.
Miyamoto using a gun against CD via surprise attack point-blank and going "ok yeah a gun can't do shit to it" (And his main purpose was to spook Josuke, not to harm anyway).
MiuMiu unloading her gun at Jolyne (who mind you, is way slower than most other Stands) and SF caching them all, with it established already they're useless on her (She then proceeds to block a bunch more).
Mista saying a power type would inherently be capable of blocking bullets (After a Power-Type knocks bullets out of the air by spitting shit at them, and then like, just blitzing them and moving out of the way)

And so on. The only times a gun is used in JoJo are by those who have absolutely no ******* idea what they're up against, or with a bunch of caveats, like the character in question being half dead and to weak to do anything, or as just a means of distraction.
Nobody in JoJo rolls up to a Stand and actually uses a gun with the intent the gun is going to do anything at all against anybody worth a damn, the very first feat a Stand ever did was showing how utterly useless guns were.

The only exceptions to this are Hol Horse (who's gun ain't exactly normal), Mista (who's able to accelerate his bullets drastically via Sex Pistols, and he still ends up failing to the point it's an actual joke and he needs to use his bullets in unconventional ways to do anything half the time).

Bruh, it's because she was like half-dead.
Pucci even points out if she can even dodge it given her extreme wounds and mobius strip. Aka, he knows she can avoid it normally, but due to the fact she's like, bleeding out all over and is heavily injured, he isn't sure that she can, turns out he was right, Jolyne while turned inside ain't exactly up to par. This ain't an outlier, it's just basic anime "character to weak to do thing they normally can".

Ya'll keep JoJo out of this, we are not the same.

Part 7 is still messy.

 

[MysticCarnage]

He might not be able to, but I can.

Every time a gun is used in JoJo by a character who knows what they're doing, it is immediately followed by the character who just used it saying how absolute dogshit they are and that they shouldn't have even bothered. To list a few examples.
Miyamoto using a gun against CD via surprise attack point-blank and going "ok yeah a gun can't do shit to it" (And his main purpose was to spook Josuke, not to harm anyway).
MiuMiu unloading her gun at Jolyne (who mind you, is way slower than most other Stands) and SF caching them all, with it established already they're useless on her (She then proceeds to block a bunch more).
Mista saying a power type would inherently be capable of blocking bullets (After a Power-Type knocks bullets out of the air by spitting shit at them, and then like, just blitzing them and moving out of the way)

And so on. The only times a gun is used in JoJo are by those who have absolutely no ******* idea what they're up against, or with a bunch of caveats, like the character in question being half dead and to weak to do anything, or as just a means of distraction.
Nobody in JoJo rolls up to a Stand and actually uses a gun with the intent the gun is going to do anything at all against anybody worth a damn, the very first feat a Stand ever did was showing how utterly useless guns were.

The only exceptions to this are Hol Horse (who's gun ain't exactly normal), Mista (who's able to accelerate his bullets drastically via Sex Pistols, and he still ends up failing to the point it's an actual joke and he needs to use his bullets in unconventional ways to do anything half the time).

Bruh, it's because she was like half-dead.
Pucci even points out if she can even dodge it given her extreme wounds and mobius strip. Aka, he knows she can avoid it normally, but due to the fact she's like, bleeding out all over and is heavily injured, he isn't sure that she can, turns out he was right, Jolyne while turned inside ain't exactly up to par. This ain't an outlier, it's just basic anime "character to weak to do thing they normally can".

Ya'll keep JoJo out of this, we are not the same.

You cooked on the JoJo part of this, there's still multiple other series like Valorant, Demon Slayer I could go on

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I was asked to comment here but I'm honestly not sure what the heck is going on. The thread seems to be focused on flaws in several calcs but I also see members talking about other verses which is a no no. If the opposition thinks which ever of the calcs are still valid then they need to convince the calc members who rejected them. I don't know the verse so I can't really help in that regard and I don't even know what is what in this thread but if the calcs are rejected then it is what it is, I can't really say much else.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You cooked on the JoJo part of this, there's still multiple other series like Valorant, Demon Slayer I could go on

Again I say, please stop complaining about other verses. If they have legitimate problems, they will likely be addressed with their own CRTs. But this doesn't make Tokyo Revengers' case any better

 

[MysticCarnage]

So we are arguing on the status that Hypersonic is an outlier for a supersonic+ verse

 

[Dalesean027]

Its been changed read the replies XD

You can't upscale the momentum with his weight correct it

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So we are arguing on the status that Hypersonic is an outlier for a supersonic+ verse

This heavily depends on if they are struggle with said supersonic+ feats. If it's done by low tier characters and are casual then a potential hypersonic feat wouldn't really be an outlier in my opinion.

 

[KLOL506]

I GIVE UP.

 

[MysticCarnage]

You can't upscale the momentum with his weight coreect it

I will let (morrishatesyou and arnoldstone18) argue for this since its their calcs

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll let you read this to determine

For Draken it most certainly is hell for most of the verse hypersonic is completely outliery half the guys who died to getting shot wouldn't have gotten shot if they were hypersonic to hypersonic+

Let me give you an example and this is less than what the ends for Mikey you have can do. So let's say a bullet with a speed of 450m/s travels 10m by your guys's logic in the time it took the bullet to travel even 10m Mikey could've traveled at least 50m at a speed of 2250m/s and still be slower than he was when he kicked that guy to the ground

Mind you these guys have ******* fought Mikey and some would even downscale his speeds so being real with yallselves this would mean anyone there when any of these guys got shot would be able to ******* not only outpace the bullets by at least 3-4x over but would have had plenty of time to also save each other and get out of the way before the bullets even reached each other... and you're saying this about a verse that considers guns dangerous above all else and has several characters who literally just die getting shot without being able to move out of the way remotely

Half of the calcs aren't even remotely valid by wiki standards and are unusable which ain't even up for denate and these other one's are either outliers or just not even valid feats i.e the Angry calc

 

[MysticCarnage]

This heavily depends on if they are struggle with said supersonic+ feats. If it's done by low tier characters and are casual then a potential hypersonic feat wouldn't really be an outlier in my opinion.

Nah not really

even mid tiers like Angry can blitz supersonic characters from 5 metres away, WITH A BROKEN LEG AND ARM

 

[Dalesean027]

Nah not really

even mid tiers like Angry can blitz supersonic characters from 5 metres away, WITH A BROKEN LEG AND ARM

These characters are literally only supersonic via calcs otherwise they are narratively FTE what you're saying here is legit calc stacking and hidden calc stacking

 

[Shadyboi0]

Damn.

 

[MysticCarnage]

I'll let you read this to determine

Its for the effect, what do you think Wakui should have done ? Explode them with TNT ? Mikey wasn't scared of guns and has never been afraid of a gun pointed at his head, the only time he died with a gun was when he WANTED to, which is why the Mikey kicks Taiju feat makes sense

What ?

It makes sense for a superhuman verse, btw your saying anyone, I am almost caught up with the manga and even I know that the difference with mid tiers and high tiers is like a difference of 100x, Angry can blitz 4 mid tiers but gets LOW DIFFED in his STRONGEST form by a high tier who is only top 10, so the high tiers being hypersonic makes sense since Angry can peform feats like blitzing someone from 5 metres away ect not to mention other feats by mid and low tiers

My counter argument to these

 

[MysticCarnage]

These characters are literally only supersonic via calcs otherwise they are all narratively FTE what you're saying here is legit calc stacking and hidden calc stacking

Even without "calc stacking" you can get it to high subsonic and low supersonic (Again he had a broken arm and leg)

Keep in mind Angry is a character who got no diffed by Kakucho, the difference with mid tiers and high tiers is ASTRONOMICAL, Hypersonic isn't an outlier

 

[Zefra3011]

So we are arguing on the status that Hypersonic is an outlier for a supersonic+ verse

THE MAIN TOPIC is that many CGMs disagree with those calcs (yes everyone of them) and as support of that in order to debunk the super+ in the verse there are proofs that the characters aren't meant to be faster than bullets in first place I guess I'll just make the examples again:

• Draken who is supposed to be 4x time faster than a gun states that a gun is a dangerous weapon
• Takemichi who even without vision is supersonic define the use of a gun as going too far
• Draken and Takemichi are worried about Mikey when a gun is pointed at him and yeah Mikey can basically blitz the entire verse so he is far superior to characters who are supposed to be super+
• Izana who is aware that Mikey is 4x time faster than a bullet still decides to use a gun in order to finish him because he couldn't win by his own
• Kakucho who is supposed to be supersonic needed the help of Izana because alone he couldn't dodge the bullets so he would have literally die if Kisaki would have shot but still somehow he is supersonic
• Senju for some reason decided to don't do a thing to save Takemichi when she was literaly near him and just waited for Draken to suicide for them when she could just step out with Takemichi since she should be 4x time faster than a bullet and the gun was 5 meters away

The author doesn't mean them to be faster than a bullet and the funny thing is that all this is made by god tiers of the verse like come on

Anyway we provided comments and some CGMs already commented with a total of 7 CGMs saying the calcs are bad

I don't know what do you want more

And still you guys will argue those characters are extremely faster than bullets

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't know what do you want more

Purge the verse atp cause this shit is ridiculous

 

[MysticCarnage]

THE MAIN TOPIC is that many CGMs disagree with those calcs (yes everyone of them) and as support of that in order to debunk the super+ in the verse there are proofs that the characters aren't meant to be faster than bullets in first place I guess I'll just make the examples again:

• Draken who is supposed to be 4x time faster than a gun states that a gun is a dangerous weapon
• Takemichi who even without vision is supersonic define the use of a gun as going too far
• Draken and Takemichi are worried about Mikey when a gun is pointed at him and yeah Mikey can basically blitz the entire verse so is far superior to characters who are supposed to be super+
• Izana who is aware that Mikey is 4x time faster than a bullet still decides to use a gun in order to finish him because he couldn't win by his own
• Kakucho who is supposed to be supersonic needed the help of Izana because alone he couldn't dodge the bullets
• Senju for some reason decided to don't do a thing to save Takemichi when she was literaly near him and just waited for Draken to suicide for them when she could just step out with Takemichi since she should be 4x time faster than a bullet and the gun was 5 meters away

The author doesn't mean them to be faster than a bullet and the funny thing is that all this is made by god tiers of the verse like come on

Anyway we provided comments and some CGMs already commented with a total of 7 CGMs saying the calcs are bad

I don't know what do you want more

A gun is a dangerous weapon because of piercing damage lol

Going to far because it can kill many low and some low mid tiers in the verse

Because If it lands it kills Mikey, they know that a gun has insane piercing damage

Because he was in a desperate state, if I was fighting Baki I would use a gun because I know that I have no chance either way, being in a desperate state makes you do things that are dumb

Who said he couldn't dodge bullets, he was just trying to save Izana by running at Kisaki, also he was in a weak state, my guy was so damaged its not funny

pre sure corbin explained this though

 

[MysticCarnage]

Purge the verse atp cause this shit is ridiculous

If your going to get angry at debating there shouldn't be a reason for you to continue in this thread

 

[Dalesean027]

If your going to get angry at debating there shouldn't be a reason for you to continue in this thread

Not angry a single bit, this verse and its supports remain unchanging after dozens of threads all of which go on longer than threads for even some of the wiki biggest verses and its always hugr backlash from all the supporters when anything that doesn't align with the ratings or abilities they want so this is at least the 4th or 5th time for a huge thread regarding the verse like this with lots of CGMs involved so at this point with no staff else wanting to work on it

 

[MysticCarnage]

Not angry a single bit, this verse and its supports remain unchanging after dozens of threads all of which go on longer than threads for even some of the wiki biggest verses and its always hugr backlash from all the supporters when anything that doesn't align with the ratings or abilities they want so this is at least the 4th or 5th time for a huge thread regarding the verse like this with lots of CGMs involved so at this point with no staff else wanting to work on it

Well there are supporters who provide completely viable arguments, like for example the Takemichi dodging calc was debunked, I think we can get somewhere, its just that you have to be prepared for alot of debating XD

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well there are supporters who provide completely viable arguments, like for example the Takemichi dodging calc was debunked, I think we can get somewhere, its just that you have to be prepared for alot of debating XD

It was not debunked

 

[CloverDragon03]

Anyways, this exact kind of stonewalling is exactly why most staff have zero interest in Tokyo Revengers. At some point, if there's a unanimous staff consensus, the propositions will be applied no matter how much outcry there is from the supporters.

 

[Dalesean027]

Anyways, this exact kind of stonewalling is exactly why most staff have zero interest in Tokyo Revengers. At some point, if there's a unanimous staff consensus, the propositions will be applied no matter how much outcry there is from the supporters.

Literally

 

[Zefra3011]

A gun is a dangerous weapon because of piercing damage lol

Going to far because it can kill many low and some low mid tiers in the verse

Because If it lands it kills Mikey, they know that a gun has insane piercing damage

Yeah this work if we put them below animal intelligence but I hardly believe they will stay still without moving when a gun is pointing at them, oh yeah since you mentioned low and mid tier well on their profile they are super/super+ too so I have no idea what are you talking about

Because he was in a desperate state, if I was fighting Baki I would use a gun because I know that I have no chance either way, being in a desperate state makes you do things that are dumb

you don't scale wall level and supersonic+ like them, a gun is stronger than you but is weaker than them

Who said he couldn't dodge bullets, he was just trying to save Izana by running at Kisaki, also he was in a weak state, my guy was so damaged its not funny

When was Senju damaged when he let Draken suicide for no reason?

Not angry a single bit, this verse and its supports remain unchanging after dozens of threads all of which go on longer than threads for even some of the wiki biggest verses and its always hugr backlash from all the supporters when anything that doesn't align with the ratings or abilities they want so this is at least the 4th or 5th time for a huge thread regarding the verse like this with lots of CGMs involved so at this point with no staff else wanting to work on it

the main problem is just that we supporters can't reach a proper conclusion but I believe that already 2 thread mods already agreed with you CGMs so it should count as staff approval in my opinion so maybe the 48h the changes can be done? (so in like 6 hours I think)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Technically the changes were already applied but honestly the person that did so really jumped the gun

 

[Zefra3011]

Technically the changes were already applied but honestly the person that did so really jumped the gun

We have to wait for the 48h rule but yeah we already have 2 thread mode who agreed with the 7 CGMs so it's just a matter of time (if I'm not missing something)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Obviously if substantial counterarguments are brought forward, things could change. Idk if that's gonna be the case given the unanimous consensus even in spite of already existing counters tho

 

[MysticCarnage]

Yeah this work if we put them below animal intelligence but I hardly believe they will stay still without moving when a gun is pointing at them, oh yeah since you mentioned low and mid tier well on their profile they are super/super+ too so I have no idea what are you talking about

you don't scale wall level and supersonic+ like them, a gun is stronger than you but is weaker than them

When was Senju damaged when he let Draken suicide for no reason?

the main problem is just that we supporters can't reach a proper conclusion but I believe that already 2 thread mods already agreed with you CGMs so it should count as staff approval in my opinion so maybe the 48h the changes can be done? (so in like 6 hours I think)

Hahahhaha, your joking ? Mid tiers are supersonic, guns are supersonic, makes sense my friend, no mid tier is supersonic+

A gun is capable of damaging building level mofo's lol, I can see why Izana would use it in a desperate state since if it lands Mikey is getting damaged

Corbin talked about this I think

My friend, we can't just change a topic being debated on

Technically the changes were already applied but honestly the person that did so really jumped the gun

He changed them to superhuman lol, I laughed when I saw that

Obviously if substantial counterarguments are brought forward, things could change. Idk if that's gonna be the case given the unanimous consensus even in spite of already existing counters tho

I have given substantial counter arguments and so has corbin, I also think arnoldstone18 and Morrishatesyou will come to the thread soon so there will be more arguments

 

[CloverDragon03]

I have given substantial counter arguments and so has corbin, I also think arnoldstone18 and Morrishatesyou will come to the thread soon so there will be more arguments

Which have been refuted in one way or another, or otherwise deemed insufficient

If more arguments come in though that's fine

 

[CloverDragon03]

He changed them to superhuman lol, I laughed when I saw that

Well if these calcs get removed, that's what they'd have to go to until new calcs are brought in afaik

 

[MysticCarnage]

Which have been refuted in one way or another, or otherwise deemed insufficient

If more arguments come in though that's fine

I haven't seen anybody refute my points, can you link the exact comments please

So can we agree to not nuke the verse and change the profiles to superhuman then

 

[Dalesean027]

He changed them to superhuman lol, I laughed when I saw that

nah Superhuman is crazy like they're at least able to scale off a baseline subsonic scaling chain and even my hypothetical recalc of the draken feat doing it with him blitzing the goons instead of blitzing the bullet net subsonic+

 

[Zefra3011]

I haven't seen anybody refute my points, can you link the exact comments please

I would love to know why Senju in perfect condition waited for Draken to suicide when she could just step out with Take

So can we agree to not nuke the verse and change the profiles to superhuman then

Maybe in another thread right after this one with new calcs since the purpose of this is only to have a conclusion about the actual calcs, superhuman isn't permanent is just a matter of some days tbh

 

[Dalesean027]

As things stand right now though the verse would be subsonic+ from the draken calc and like all the others ain't it byt the mikey one could maybe be transonic given the corrections

 

[Zefra3011]

As things stand right now though the verse would be subsonic+ from the draken calc and like all the others ain't it byt the mikey one could maybe be transonic given the corrections

fine to me we just need to make them, how can the Draken's one be calculated in a proper way?

 

[MysticCarnage]

Why are you guys coming to conclusions this debate hasn't ended

Wait for the rest of the supporters to come back jesus theres no need to rush