Justice for Tokyo Revengers.

[MorrisHatesYou]

As RoggerReggor said. No matter how much we argue, the outcome may change when that anime scene is released. We just have to be patient and wait for the anime. The topic of waiting for anime was discussed several months ago, but many people still don't have enough patience. Doing nothing and waiting for the exam results is easier than arguing when you don't know the clear answer.

I don't see this being done with other verses.

And that doesn't justify putting another calc with different interpretation (that it's an aim dodging) just because it gives a safer end.

I care about accuracy, from what we can derive, we should go with what's the most accurate.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

5 pages...

 

[Second22]

I don't see this being done with other verses.

And that doesn't justify putting another calc with different interpretation (that it's an aim dodging) just because it gives a safer end.

I care about accuracy, from what we can derive, we should go with what's the most accurate.

If you have an issue with other verses, then make them right because I don't know which verse you're referring to, so I'm not interested.

It's up to you. I'm only interested in the final result. I'm tired of having the same conversation for months. Do you think that's right? But in the end, CGMs don't agree with you. Our opinions differ. I'll wait for anime; that's what I've decided.

I'm afraid that Dale will lose patience with these arguments. You also know that there are many CGMs who have decided not to get involved with TKR anymore. Main reason is that these never-ending arguments. If Dale loses patience and there are no CGMs to check, the final result may be that this verse gets deleted from the wiki. I wouldn't want it to be like that.

Now, it depends on how many CGMs will remain to verify the calculations of TKR. Consider it a joint request. We're just waiting for the anime. This issue has been discussed for too long.

 

[Passersby]

4 pages worth of discussion and the end result is wait for the anime

what a productive CRT lmao

 

[Second22]

4 pages worth of discussion and the end result is wait for the anime

what a productive CRT lmao

Dude, This issue has been discussed in 3-4 threads, not just 4 pages.

 

[Passersby]

Dude, This issue has been discussed in 3-4 threads, not just 4 pages.

.....eh?

...that's a joke made for dramatic effects right?

 

[Second22]

.....eh?

...that's a joke made for dramatic effects right?

Ahh, I also wanted it to be a joke, but, um...

 

[Passersby]

Ahh, I also wanted it to be a joke, but, um...

...yeah, i just checked

one CRT even had 11 pages

well then, no wonder people treat this verse like a plague

i would usueally joke around but i'm kind of speechless so i can't

 

[ImmortalDread]

Dread make a separate thread for that. It’s rather rude to make a discussion rule proposal here.

Alright. Although I will wait for @Antvasima and @Dalesean027 confirmation for this.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

If you have an issue with other verses, then make them right because I don't know which verse you're referring to, so I'm not interested.

It's up to you. I'm only interested in the final result. I'm tired of having the same conversation for months. Do you think that's right? But in the end, CGMs don't agree with you. Our opinions differ. I'll wait for anime; that's what I've decided.

I'm afraid that Dale will lose patience with these arguments. You also know that there are many CGMs who have decided not to get involved with TKR anymore. Main reason is that these never-ending arguments. If Dale loses patience and there are no CGMs to check, the final result may be that this verse gets deleted from the wiki. I wouldn't want it to be like that.

Now, it depends on how many CGMs will remain to verify the calculations of TKR. Consider it a joint request. We're just waiting for the anime. This issue has been discussed for too long.

Only you and Rogger are the only ones who suggested to wait for an anime version.

Other CGMs' think it's an aim dodging because of egregiously misinterpreted context. Which I cleared up here.
The chances of being a projectile dodging feat is higher than the chances of being aim-dodging by a landslide, they never said "wait for anime".

That being said, I'm fine with whatever but I don't agree with the idea of putting a less accurate version (being aim dodging) just because it gives lower numbers.
That's pretty much it.

 

[Passersby]

That being said, I'm fine with whatever but I don't agree with the idea of putting a less accurate version (being aim dodging) just because it gives lower numbers.

wasn't the argument that it gives more consitent numbers with the setting than the fact that it gives lower numbers?

...oh well, i've never read the series, so what do i know

 

[Second22]

Only you and Rogger are the only ones who suggested to wait for an anime version.

Other CGMs' think it's an aim dodging because of egregiously misinterpreted context. Which I cleared up here.
The chances of being a projectile dodging feat is higher than the chances of being aim-dodging by a landslide, they never said "wait for anime".

That being said, I'm fine with whatever but I don't agree with the idea of putting a less accurate version (being aim dodging) just because it gives lower numbers.
That's pretty much it.

It seems like I didn't make myself clear. I didn't say they agreed with waiting for anime, but they didn't agree with your assumption. That's what I meant.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

wasn't the argument that it gives more consitent numbers with the setting than the fact that it gives lower numbers?

Not really.

It seems like I didn't make myself clear. I didn't say they agreed with waiting for anime, but they didn't agree with your assumption. That's what I meant.

I mean, here it's agreed with the pushing part and no recent opposers of the feat were against it.

 

[Zefra3011]

Can you think of any instance where multiple panels display a specific simultaneous moment in time outside of the pure expressions on a particular action? Is there really any other time in Tokyo Revengers where two action packed panels weren’t arranged in chronological order or are these panels the first and last ever time this happens? You see what I mean? If there are let me know… maybe there are.

Draken saving Takemichi, the second panel is literally all 3 bullets being shot and AFTER Takemichi turns his head while closing his eye and after the rest so using panel order here comes out Draken reached them only After the thirs bullet, well, It doesn't really work yk, that's one of the main reason I consider Izana feat just an AIM dodging feat.

 

[Zefra3011]

I mean, here it's agreed with the pushing part and no recent opposers of the feat were against it.

I am but I think I made myself clear in the other threads.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Draken saving Takemichi, the second panel is literally all 3 bullets being shot and AFTER Takemichi turns his head while closing his eye and after the rest so using panel order here comes out Draken reached them only After the thirs bullet, well, It doesn't really work yk, that's one of the main reason I consider Izana feat just an AIM dodging feat.

Can you prove that Takemichi closed his eyes after the bullets were shot? He probably close his eyes before, like everyone would do.

I am but I think I made myself clear in the other threads.

Which I all debunked here.

 

[Zefra3011]

Can you prove that Takemichi closed his eyes after the bullets were shot? He probably close his eyes before, like everyone would do.

Uh, yes, exactly, so panels order =\= events order

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Uh, yes, exactly, so panels order =\= events order

I mean, it's case by case, that doesn't make every single happening thing off-screen. Takemichi's one is how a lot of people would act in that situation, it's common sense.

 

[Zefra3011]

I mean, it's case by case, that doesn't make every single happening thing off-screen. Takemichi's one is how a lot of people would act in that situation, it's common sense.

It's not only Takemichi, the whole scene happens "after" the 3 shots even Draken coming in the way but of course it would be even impossible to even start to move after the second bullet, anyway Arnold asked for that, alsp the scenes are similar and made by the same author, the only thing I see different is that Izana at start didn't plan to help Kakucho but his body moves by his own so at the end he did it, everything else looks very similar to me, that's why I think that if one contraddicts the panel order thing then that shouldnt be used in the other one or at least it shouldnt be the main reason for Izana starting after the bullet.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

It's not only Takemichi, the whole scene happens "after" the 3 shots even Draken coming in the way but of course it would be even impossible to even start to move after the second bullet, anyway Arnold asked for that, alsp the scenes are similar and made by the same author, the only thing I see different is that Izana at start didn't plan to help Kakucho but his body moves by his own so at the end he did it, everything else looks very similar to me, that's why I think that if one contraddicts the panel order thing then that shouldnt be used in the other one or at least it shouldnt be the main reason for Izana starting after the bullet.

They're different though, it's hard to conclude things for the DraKen feat. But Izana was straight up depicted after the gun was shot.
Right next to the shooter's panel, there are 3 shots in that panel itself. For Izana's feat, the 1st SFX is only shown in kisaki's panel.

they're very different things, placements of sound effects and panel orders are not similar at all even in the slightest. And you have Izana moving on his own and motion lines on him right after the gun was shot, which the DraKen feat doesn't have.

 

[Zefra3011]

I mean, I see your points, I just said considering there is another scene more less similar where panels order can't be used because it straight up contraddicts everything the main reason for Izana starting to move after the bullet shouldnt be panel order even because those 2 panel can be happening at the same time for all we know, like Izana pushed away Kakucho while Kiskai shoots, Izana could be there even before the bullet went out from the gun as far as we now, anyway I dont see anything you said convincing.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I mean, I see your points, I just said considering there is another scene more less similar where panels order can't be used because it straight up contraddicts everything the main reason for Izana starting to move after the bullet shouldnt be panel order even because those 2 panel can be happening at the same time for all we know, like Izana pushed away Kakucho while Kiskai shoots, Izana could be there even before the bullet went out from the gun as far as we now, anyway I dont see anything you said convincing.

I mean they're just not similar like I explained above, you're ignoring that. Draken's feat is highly ambiguous.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Draken saving Takemichi, the second panel is literally all 3 bullets being shot and AFTER Takemichi turns his head while closing his eye and after the rest so using panel order here comes out Draken reached them only After the thirs bullet, well, It doesn't really work yk, that's one of the main reason I consider Izana feat just an AIM dodging feat.

How is the example a counter argument to what I said?

Panel of a guy saying die, then a panel where he proceeds to shoot, then a panel where Takemichi’s eyes are still closed. These panels are still in chronological order.

Or are you unintentionally misinterpreting the panels to prove me wrong? Wouldn’t that be considered strawman? Takemichi obviously closed his eyes off panel when he heard “die”. And the panelling, while still chronological, shows Takemichi still closing his eyes. I never said all actions must happen on panel, I simply said panels are chronological. Actions can clearly be taken place off panel.

The only on panel action we got for the gun reaction feat was Izana pushing Kakucho aside while moving. We never see when Izana started moving, could’ve happened before or after the bullet. So we just ignore that prt. One thing is clear, Kakucho was pushed after the first shot.

Edit: so unless you have any more examples you can think of, I still believe every action panel displays events in chronological order. Except panels displaying emotion across multiple characters. That’s just how Ken Wakui draws scenes.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Only you and Rogger are the only ones who suggested to wait for an anime version.

Didn't Arnold kind of agree as well?

Secondly, it's the most rational move. It's better to leave it to the studio to decide what speed Izana should be. And see, it's a win-win, if the studio makes the scene as you interpret it, then you will never face the criticism of "The characters cannot be faster than a bullet." because the studio itself thinks they should be.

I mean, here it's agreed with the pushing part and no recent opposers of the feat were against it.

In HollowVanity's CRT, there were actually people who asked for concrete evidence of whether the actions are taking place one after another or at the same time, and I don't think there were good reasons against it.

Literally all the possibilities I listed actually seem to be a possibility (+afaik).

 

[Dinozxd]

Can any of you guys give me a reason why we are waiting for the anime to clear up the feat?

I don't get why we can't just go with the most possible interpreation rather than "waiting for the anime" and waste our time? The context of the feat might change in the anime but that doesn't change the fact that we can't go with the most probable option for now...

 

[RoggerReggor]

I don’t mind waiting for anime. Judging by the way they just adapted Mikey Taiju scene word for word bar for bar… I’m confident they’ll just let Kisaki make a shot, and switch to Izana saving Kakucho during the second shot and third shot happens when the camera switches to Takemichy.

Got to bring some bad news, if they show it POV by POV, then the feat is done to be at normal human level lol. Because they will capture Kakucho's "RAAAA!" while he would be seemingly running at normal human speeds. The best they can do is show everything in the same POV and actions after actions.

Can any of you guys give me a reason why we are waiting for the anime to clear up the feat?

I don't get why we can't just go with the most possible interpreation rather than "waiting for the anime" and waste our time? The context of the feat might change in the anime but that doesn't change the fact that we can't go with the most probable option for now...

That's not "wasting our time", if we start arguing now, that would be wasting time lol.

 

[Dinozxd]

That's not "wasting our time", if we start arguing now, that would be wasting time lol.

We can just use the manga interpretion now and change the feat if the anime version contradicts it (I actually disagree with this cuz this is a manga based verse so manga version of the feat should still be valid even if the anime contradicts it).

As you guys said, anime version messes up some of the feats context wise so the manga version would still be valid.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Didn't Arnold kind of agree as well?

Secondly, it's the most rational move. It's better to leave it to the studio to decide what speed Izana should be. And see, it's a win-win, if the studio makes the scene as you interpret it, then you will never face the criticism of "The characters cannot be faster than a bullet." because the studio itself thinks they should be.

In HollowVanity's CRT, there were actually people who asked for concrete evidence of whether the actions are taking place one after another or at the same time, and I don't think there were good reasons against it.

Literally all the possibilities I listed actually seem to be a possibility (+afaik).

I'm only counting people from previous threads, which happens to be only you and mr.second22.

I'm talking about this thread specifically.

For the others, Dino addresses it better.

 

[Testarossa002]

Is it really that hard to wait for anime adaptation?

Other verses are allowed to use anime adaptations to calc feats in case the primary canon isn't clear cut.
Neither side is going to budge from their current stances.

 

[Zefra3011]

And it would be a matter of only 3 months at max considering the anime starts the 3 of October, we will be able to calc the feat with max accuracy but apparently we MUST do it now for some reasons.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Is it really that hard to wait for anime adaptation?

Other verses are allowed to use anime adaptations to calc feats in case the primary canon isn't clear cut.
Neither side is going to budge from their current stances.

I'd be fine with that if that's the current consensus.

I just vehemently disagree with the idea of putting a less accurate version (the current justification for being aim dodging is pure garbage) because "it gives lower numbers", I care about accuracy, and the chances of being projectile dodging is higher by a big margin. If we're gonna go with one, my interpretation is the best, but if everyone wants the anime to be adapted first I don't really mind waiting for it but if that's gonna be the case the less accurate version should entirely be removed, it just rubs me in the wrong way.

 

[Zefra3011]

So.... can we all agree to wait the anime then?

We only debate about the context for this feat, the anime will clear it.

EDIT: If we go this way then I agree in removing the actual calc @MorrisHatesYou

 

[Dinozxd]

Is it really that hard to wait for anime adaptation?

It's not even about that. Manga is the primary source when the anime isn't. Manga suggests that Izana saves Kakucho after the bullet was fired so that means that Izana canonically saved Kakucho after the bullet was fired lol.

Also, don't understand why we have to wait for the anime adaptation for a simple thing. Other verses don't get the same treatment so don't understand why we get it. I'll say it again, waiting for the anime adaptation is just a waste of time. You guys can just make a thread 3 months later (after the anime adapts it) if you have any problems with the feat. It's not that hard...

 

[Testarossa002]

Also, don't understand why we have to wait for the anime adaptation for a simple thing. Other verses don't get the same treatment

I don't know how long you've been following this wiki but I can assure you other verses do this.
Naruto jumped 2 whole tiers by using the timeframe that's nonexistent in the manga
Other verses use it to clarify if the residue from an explosion is smoke or vapor in other to use the vaporization or pulverization end.

This is not unique to Tokyo revengers

I'll say it again, waiting for the anime adaptation is just a waste of time. You guys can just make a thread 3 months later (after the anime adapts it) if you have any problems with the feat. It's not that hard...

Imma be real with you.
The chances of this getting accepted is very close to zero.
The scarcity of staffs alone is enough to tell you you're fighting a losing battle.

Unless you're fine with dragging this thread to 50 pages until the anime comes out.

I'd be fine with that if that's the current consensus.

I just vehemently disagree with the idea of putting a less accurate version (the current justification for being aim dodging is pure garbage) because "it gives lower numbers", I care about accuracy, and the chances of being projectile dodging is higher by a big margin. If we're gonna go with one, my interpretation is the best, but if everyone wants the anime to be adapted first I don't really mind waiting for it but if that's gonna be the case the less accurate version should entirely be removed, it just rubs me in the wrong way.

I agree with this.

The feat should be kept in the freezer until the anime comes out.
Both high and low end interpretation of it

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

So.... can we all agree to wait the anime then?

We only debate about the context for this feat, the anime will clear it.

EDIT: If we go this way then I agree in removing the actual calc @MorrisHatesYou

I agree with this.

The feat should be kept in the freezer until the anime comes out.
Both high and low end interpretation of it

The reason why I included this here is because I dislike the reason for being aim dodging, yes. If it was agreed upon to waiting for anime before, I probably wouldn't include it here.

If everyone agrees with waiting for the anime, I might as well agree with the consensus.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Got to bring some bad news, if they show it POV by POV, then the feat is done to be at normal human level lol. Because they will capture Kakucho's "RAAAA!" while he would be seemingly running at normal human speeds. The best they can do is show everything in the same POV and actions after actions.

I mean I don’t really care much about an injured Kakucho not being able to run at superhuman speeds. Not like bro could get up after getting pushed. I’m more concerned about Izana.

 

[RoggerReggor]

We can just use the manga interpretion now and change the feat if the anime version contradicts it (I actually disagree with this cuz this is a manga based verse so manga version of the feat should still be valid even if the anime contradicts it).

As you guys said, anime version messes up some of the feats context wise so the manga version would still be valid.

Listen, I am not saying that this feat shouldn't be calculated, but the problem is people are not always up to date. If we all just decide to wait for the anime adaptation and you guys even settled for the lowest result possible, there would still be people who would spam threads for TR just because they don't agree with the accepted result. And there's is the possibility for every single outcome.

You need to understand that this thread itself will be dragged to at least 20 pages (I can say it because I know it) if we were to argue about it. Secondly, the verse is already on the verge of deletion, if something very bad happens even in that 2-3 month till the anime adapts it, the verse is bound to get deleted as Ant already said that even the staff is against the verse being on the wiki. You need to understand and think ahead for now. I don't think you can't wait until the anime comes out.

If you were to argue about something and me about something else, we will never reach a conclusion since that's given that every outcome is possible here.

 

[Dinozxd]

I don't see this thread getting dragged to 20-50 pages cuz of a simple thing like this but whatever. If everyone agrees to wait for the anime adaptation for this feat, then I don't have a problem with it as well. I just wanted to point out the fact that the manga is the primary source for this verse.

 

[Dinozxd]

bump

 

[Testarossa002]

If the consensus is to wait for the anime, then almost everything here has been settled

The sub-bullet speed cap for the verse arguments is tied to the izana feat
The fear hax has been addressed by deagonx
The scaling chain stuff would be better handled in a new thread with the values that each character scales to attached.

I don't think I'm missing anything else in the OP