Izana outpaces bullets CRT

[SeijiSetto]

Higher travel speed means higher reaction speed too. There is no way Ran's reaction speed is higher than Kakucho.

not commenting on anything else in this thread but no it doesn't lol
there's a reason travel/flight and combat/reaction speeds are separate on the site.

compare a human driving a car and a human sprinting down a road. human in the car has higher travel speed but their reaction speed is identical.

 

[Dinozxd]

not commenting on anything else in this thread but no it doesn't lol
there's a reason travel/flight and combat/reaction speeds are separate on the site.

compare a human driving a car and a human sprinting down a road. human in the car has higher travel speed but their reaction speed is identical.

the wiki itself states that Movement speed<reaction speed though? Or did I misunderstood that?

 

[Second22]

the wiki itself states that Movement speed<reaction speed though? Or did I misunderstood that?

In reality, humans can kick as fast as 32.18688 m/s, but that doesn't mean they have a reaction speed of 0.031 seconds, while peak humans only have 0.08 seconds. Both of these are not directly related; they are separate aspects. Movement speed depends on the body's physical abilities, while reaction speed relies on the brain's capabilities. Therefore, it's not always the case that reaction speed is greater than movement speed; it depends on the specific situation.

 

[Dinozxd]

In reality, humans can kick as fast as 32.18688 m/s, but that doesn't mean they have a reaction speed of 0.031 seconds, while peak humans only have 0.08 seconds. Both of these are not directly related; they are separate aspects. Movement speed depends on the body's physical abilities, while reaction speed relies on the brain's capabilities. Therefore, it's not always the case that reaction speed is greater than movement speed; it depends on the specific situation.

Isn't that combat speed? I was talking about travel speed.

 

[Second22]

Isn't that combat speed? I was talking about travel speed.

The fastest human runner in the world doesn't necessarily mean their reaction time is the fastest in the world as well. The speed of travel does not determine reaction speed.

 

[HollowVanity]

Yes this has been presented in the last threads/blogs as well, regardless:

Ok, so using this logic Izana pushed Kakucho away after/during the sound of the second bullet since it's drawn between the two panels right? Well, do you know that by the time you can shoot a second bullet with that gun the first bullets already reached the target? especially since looking at your calc Kakucho was only 0,4 m away from the gun, the bullet needs 0,001 s to reach him and you can't fire a second bullet within this timeframe, but unfortunately Izana tanked every single bullets so he was there before the first one but looking at the panel order as order of events comes out Izana was there after/while earing the sound of the second bullet so it's litteally impossible, same shit happens here, which is a similar feat, it comes out Takemichi closed his eye after the sound of the third bullet and Draken was there after that but even here Draken tanked everything but using panels order every bullet should have hit Takemichi.

EDIT: Best way to see the feat imo (which has been accepted by some CGM in the thread I linked at the bottom):
Kakucho was trying to get to Kisaki so Kisaki shot him but Izana managed to get in the way in time, Kisaki realized only after that Izana was there, Izana's body moved by his own when he realized that Kakucho was going to die so he probably started to run when Kisaki said "Die!" at Kakucho which is right before the shooting and managed to get in the way while Kisaki started to shoot.

Also while usually in a manga the events follow the panel orders, it's not always the case, especially here.

Yes this was also already presented,

litterally kakucho would slightly downscale from this feat, in fact in the characters book we can see that Izana had to set a rule "The attacks from the king can't be avoided" because Kakucho was almost at his level, so since the calc imply Izana is 4x speed of bullets Kakucho is almost 4x speed of bullets but yeah he couldn't avoid it and if he could it doesn't make sense Izana needed to save him, also PIS isn't the excuse to let outliers scale since yk everytime a bullet is used in TR people die, Draken, Senju, Izana, Takemichi, Chifuyu all died by bullets, a PSI would be if they could avoid bullets 90% of the time and the rest 10% they can't but unfortunately they just die when they are shot.

Already presented,

If you refer the scene before the feat yes, but during the feat Kakucho was looking to Kisaki and he was aware he had a gun pointed at him.

More less already presented,

Are you aware people can actually in different ways? Tell me valid reason why if the author wants them to be faster than bullets he constantly make them die by bullets, what the reason? Is he dumb or something?

More less already presented,

Senju is stronger than Takemichi, litterally a peak human LS/street ap could have moved him.

Already presented,

Angry never blitzed Mucho since Mucho was, in fact, able to grab him, Angry just outskilled him (also because Mucho litterally reacts to him but yeah).ì
Nah piercing damage isn't a problem if you can see the shit approaching you in slow motion as the calc presentes since they are x4 time faster than the bullet, it's just an excuse, also people like Draken which scales to Hanma who has a combat speed almost on pair with base Mikey said guns are dangerous.

Already presented,

So a tired Izana is like 5 times slower than himself at his 100%? like, what? It's too much difference, also it wouldn't still make sense he used a gun against a guy who is supposed to be x4 faster than the bullet, even if the bullet was actually faster than Izana.

Wait, so you are saying Izana during this feat is superior to himself during the fight against Mikey? Like this would make the feat scale to no one lol, not even Izana since it was only a particular moment where he could achieve that speed and normaly he can't, and no one would scale to it since no one matched that Izana.

Anyway the only new point I see here is the last one which litterally debunks the feat itself, everything is already been discussed here, here and here and the last blogs presenting a calc for this feat implying Izana > bullet have been rejected (mostly by DMUA I think).
Here the thread where CGMs accepted to remake TR calcs and decided to calc it as a blitz and not as Izana > bullet.

Oh since I just repeated ***** for the 5th time don't expect me to keep going with this discussion unless is absolutely necessary, ask staff about this and that's all. (unless you want this to have 8 pages in two days)

Also... I that hard to wait some months for the anime adaptation of the scene which might provide more context?

Kisaki's finger accelerates at 94 m/s, after you shot the first bullet you finger only needs to move around 2 cm. 0.02 / 94 = 0.00021276595, fitting the timeframe. Also, why are you bringing up the Draken feat ? That is MASSIVELY different.

You say "its not always the case, especially here" but you have no evidence, your being very nitpicky with this feat with no evidence that they happen simultaneously, also Dino had a good point on this.

litterally kakucho would slightly downscale from this feat, in fact in the characters book we can see that Izana had to set a rule "The attacks from the king can't be avoided" because Kakucho was almost at his level, so since the calc imply Izana is 4x speed of bullets Kakucho is almost 4x speed of bullets but yeah he couldn't avoid it and if he could it doesn't make sense Izana needed to save him, also PIS isn't the excuse to let outliers scale since yk everytime a bullet is used in TR people die, Draken, Senju, Izana, Takemichi, Chifuyu all died by bullets, a PSI would be if they could avoid bullets 90% of the time and the rest 10% they can't but unfortunately they just die when they are shot.

Mate, Kakucho was literally looking away from the gun during the first shot, and during the second shot, he didn't blitz Kisaki because of PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY, you saying "every time a bullet is used a person dies" isn't good reasoning and I explained it already. You have no debunks to my points cause you don't read them... We know Kakucho is perfectly capable of blitzing people like Kisaki but he didn't because of PIS. You keep ignoring my points smh

If you refer the scene before the feat yes, but during the feat Kakucho was looking to Kisaki and he was aware he had a gun pointed at him.

Plot induced stupidity, why didn't he just blitz Kisaki even though he blitzed much faster opponents ? Because of PIS

Are you aware people can actually in different ways? Tell me valid reason why if the author wants them to be faster than bullets he constantly make them die by bullets, what the reason? Is he dumb or something?

I literally explained why they die to bullets and why it makes sense, this point isn't a good point LOL

Senju is stronger than Takemichi, litterally a peak human LS/street ap could have moved him

Are we reading the same scene ? She was flustered and so suprised, her reaction speed was likely slowed dramatically because of it. Also, does Senju even have a high LS ? No, she couldn't have moved Takemichi since he was trying to save her. But ofc, she was flustered and wasn't thinking properly

Angry never blitzed Mucho since Mucho was, in fact, able to grab him, Angry just outskilled him (also because Mucho litterally reacts to him but yeah).ì
Nah piercing damage isn't a problem if you can see the shit approaching you in slow motion as the calc presentes since they are x4 time faster than the bullet, it's just an excuse, also people like Draken which scales to Hanma who has a combat speed almost on pair with base Mikey said guns are dangerous.

You say piercing damage isn't a problem but Sanzu without a katana is considered one of the weaker people in the verse but when he has a katana he literally becomes a HIGH tier. Also, you say Izana could see shit approaching him in slow motion but there is literally no proof of that, I literally only added that in because I wanted to test it out. This point is actually so bad and shows something about you, Hanma is on par with a base Mikey from the FIRST arc, as we know, Mikey only gets stronger and stronger, and by their next fight (a couple episodes later) Mikey is able to one shot Hanma with no difficulty. Base Mikey said guns are dangerous, but do you have any scans proving its because of the speed of the gun ?

Also, not to mention but, if Sanzu is a mid tier with no weapons, why does he suddenly become a high tier with a katana ? Is it because his speed increases ? NO, its because a katana is harder to deal with due to its piercing damage, you have to be more carefull around a katana, the same can be said for a gun, if you get caught off guard, you die. Or if you have to save someone, you die.

So a tired Izana is like 5 times slower than himself at his 100%? like, what? It's too much difference, also it wouldn't still make sense he used a gun against a guy who is supposed to be x4 faster than the bullet, even if the bullet was actually faster than Izana.

Mate, your getting on my nerves now, I literally said, it was adrenaline and linked multiple studies. Izana only used a gun on Mikey because he was massively weakened, I mean he literally got dogged on and was struggling to stand still. Your point doesn't hold up though because Izana outpaced bullets with the adrenaline he had from wanting to save Kakucho.

Wait, so you are saying Izana during this feat is superior to himself during the fight against Mikey? Like this would make the feat scale to no one lol, not even Izana since it was only a particular moment where he could achieve that speed and normaly he can't, and no one would scale to it since no one matched that Izana.

I wouldn't say superior, but I wouldn't put it off the table. Also, yes it would scale to people.

Anyway the only new point I see here is the last one which litterally debunks the feat itself, everything is already been discussed here, here and here and the last blogs presenting a calc for this feat implying Izana > bullet have been rejected (mostly by DMUA I think).
Here the thread where CGMs accepted to remake TR calcs and decided to calc it as a blitz and not as Izana > bullet.

Waffle, let them debate me, you stand no chance with all your assumptions and ignoring of my points

not commenting on anything else in this thread but no it doesn't lol
there's a reason travel/flight and combat/reaction speeds are separate on the site.

compare a human driving a car and a human sprinting down a road. human in the car has higher travel speed but their reaction speed is identical.

Agree

 

[HollowVanity]

This is actually making me cringe. I see why everyone else lost, you literally just ignore points stated by me so when new people come, they see your points and think "oh wow, he must be right" even though I literally give explanations to everything.

 

[SeijiSetto]

the wiki itself states that Movement speed<reaction speed though? Or did I misunderstood that?

no? all the wiki says is that in many scenarios, they aren't correlated, and so unless they're shown to be one in the same, they can be different.

my favourite verse is casually fighting millions of times faster than light but a 10-sec 100m sprint is treated as impressive.

 

[HollowVanity]

no? all the wiki says is that in many scenarios, they aren't correlated, and so unless they're shown to be one in the same, they can be different.

my favourite verse is casually fighting millions of times faster than light but a 10-sec 100m sprint is treated as impressive.

Could you discuss the other points I listed ? Would be appreciated

 

[Zefra3011]

This is actually making me cringe. I see why everyone else lost, you literally just ignore points stated by me so when new people come, they see your points and think "oh wow, he must be right" even though I literally give explanations to everything.

It's not that, I'm just bored that everytime this feat is presented the points are the same over and over, you want my opinion? Close this thread and wait some months until the scene gets animated, if anything it will just add context but if you want the verse Supersonic+ NOW so bad you can keep the discussion up, if what you say it's right the anime will show it for sure and the verse will be upgraded without much discussions, I stated what I needed to state, the manga doesn't indicate Izana doing ***** after the bullet is shot, if you want more arguments you can litterally look at the other threads since what you presented is nothing new but I'm convienced you were partecipating so it's not necessary, same arguments therefore same debunks therefore same rebunks and so on.

 

[HollowVanity]

It's not that, I'm just bored that everytime this feat is presented the points are the same over and over, you want my opinion? Close this thread and wait some months until the scene gets animated, if anything it will just add context but if you want the verse Supersonic+ NOW so bad you can keep the discussion up, if what you say it's right the anime will show it for sure and the verse will be upgraded without much discussions, I stated what I needed to state, the manga doesn't indicate Izana doing ***** after the bullet is shot, if you want more arguments you can litterally look at the other threads since what you presented is nothing new but I'm convienced you were partecipating so it's not necessary, same arguments therefore same debunks therefore same rebunks and so on.

I will keep the discussion up, you are yet to debunk and refute the points I have presented, there are multiple feats where staff refused to wait until they were animated so I will gladly keep the debate going. Make sure to refute my points properly instead of making assumptions with no backing

 

[Zefra3011]

I'll just point out that you find a timeframe from distance/speed and not distance/acceleration and the fact I can move my finger at 94 m/s is funny imo, also every calc you showed to prove Kakucho can blitz guys are in fact rejected because the guys aren't actually blitzed which is also funny

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Kakucho can blitz guys are in fact rejected because the guys aren't actually blitzed which is also funny

His dashes aren't that good but still has enough speed to take out foes before they could do anything great, which infact is great, his hooks are different thing though.

 

[Dinozxd]

I'll just point out that you find a timeframe from distance/speed and not distance/acceleration and the fact I can move my finger at 94 m/s is funny imo,

I feel like my intelligence is being tested. If you input 94 m/s^2 as acceleration, 0.014s as the time and 0 m/s for initial speed; you get this which is 1.316 m/s (Below Average Human) Please learn the concept of Acceleration first before you comment on my calcs

also every calc you showed to prove Kakucho can blitz guys are in fact rejected because the guys aren't actually blitzed which is also funny

I don't see how this is related to this CRT. Don't bring up unrelated stuff to try to clog this thread up.

I don't buy your "I don't wanna answer your arguments cuz I'm bored" bluffs btw and I don't think anyone in the thread bought it either. Just avoid the thread if you are gonna continue spitting out nonsense.

 

[HollowVanity]

I feel like my intelligence is being tested. If you input 94 m/s^2 as acceleration, 0.014s as the time and 0 m/s for initial speed; you get this which is 1.316 m/s (Below Average Human) Please learn the concept of Acceleration first before you comment on my calcs


I don't see how this is related to this CRT. Don't bring up unrelated stuff to try to clog this thread up.

I don't buy your "I don't wanna answer your arguments cuz I'm bored" bluffs btw and I don't think anyone in the thread bought it either. Just avoid the thread if you are gonna continue spitting out nonsense.

I bought up the Kakucho feats as a way to show why Kakucho not dodging the bullets was PIS, I agree with everything else though

 

[Zefra3011]

I feel like my intelligence is being tested. If you input 94 m/s^2 as acceleration, 0.014s as the time and 0 m/s for initial speed; you get this which is 1.316 m/s (Below Average Human) Please learn the concept of Acceleration first before you comment on my calcs

Acceleration is how speed changes in a timeframe, so an acceleration of 94 m/s2 means that within 1 s the object goes from 0 to 94 m/s, like in my Mikey calc I got an acceleration go 770 m/s2 but since the timeframe is only 0,04 s the speed Mikey has is only 30,8 m/s because he doesn't have an entire second to accelerate.

I don't buy your "I don't wanna answer your arguments cuz I'm bored" bluffs

I'll still sleep well

 

[Dinozxd]

I bought up the Kakucho feats as a way to show why Kakucho not dodging the bullets was PIS, I agree with everything else though

He brought up my Kakucho blitz calcs and I answered that. My Kakucho blitz calcs aren't related to this discussion so it shouldn't be used in this thread.

 

[Dinozxd]

Acceleration is how speed changes in a timeframe, so an acceleration of 94 m/s2 means that within 1 s the object goes from 0 to 94 m/s, like in my Mikey calc I got an acceleration go 770 m/s2 but since the timeframe is only 0,04 s the speed Mikey has is only 30,8 m/s because he doesn't have an entire second to accelerate.

this would be correct if the timeframe was 1s but It's not.

 

[Zefra3011]

this would be correct if the timeframe was 1s but It's not.

Exactly, if the acceleration is 94 m/s2 it means he needs an entire second to speed up to 94 m/s, he had only 0.014s so...

 

[Dinozxd]

Exactly, if the acceleration is 94 m/s2 it means he needs an entire second to speed up to 94 m/s, he had only 0.014s so...

Kisaki's final speed isn't even related to the calc. Don't understand why are we discussing it here. The important part is the timeframe of Kisaki pulling the trigger.

Even DMUA couldn't find anything wrong with the calc other than the context who probably knows how acceleration works more than us.

Edit: Accelerating with 94 m/s^2 in 1 seconds equals to 94 ms/s final speed but the timeframe of Kisaki pulling the trigger is much less (there is no way a human pulls a trigger in 1 seconds anyway, humans can pull it much faster than that) equals to less final speed. Pretty simple.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Could you discuss the other points I listed ? Would be appreciated

not commenting on anything else in this thread

i don't know TR stuff (nor do i particularly want to do anything involved with it)