Sanji Fights Another Supernova

[XDragnoir]

Still, Kidd was taking attacks from someone who's >> Sanji and was actually conscious longer than him iirc.

Kidd didn't take half as many hits from BM as Sanji took from Queen+King+Maria.

It's safe to say that at the least, his stamina is equal to Sanji's.

Not because of your points, at all, you're literally treating durability feats as stamina.

 

[Kachon123]

Kidd was taking attacks from someone who's >> Sanji

Both Ifrit Jambe and Diable Jambe are durability negation, so that point is moot.

So I wonder, what's Sanji's wincons again?

Now, Sanji has better haki to negate his heat resistance
Sanji has heat hot enough to cook Kidd and vaporize his metals, only leaving him with Assign and fists to fight with
Sanji is multiple blitz levels faster than Kidd
Sanji is much smarter and more tactical
Sanji has observation haki good enough that even if Kidd can somehow react to a single attack and try to counter with Assign, he could just read his intentions and dodge.

 

[Kachon123]

It's safe to say that at the least, his stamina is equal to Sanji's.

Sanji's Stamina


Sanji ran nonstop for several months, possibly years, being pursued by the Okamas, giving him barely any time to eat or rest. While undergoing these conditions, Sanji was able to not only survive, but he was able to beat 100 Okama Kenpo Masters with each of them being as strong, if not stronger than him.


Sanji could take having his organs completely crushed under pressure and get up, still being able to combo and defeat Kuroobi. Directly after, he fought Arlong) and got destroyed, but was still able to get up to save Luffy from drowning.

Sanji could take having a hole punched through his shoulder, get up right after, break a couple bones and beat Bon Clay. While having broken bones, he was still able to run around the Kingdom or Alabasta.

Sanji could take having internal damage shockwaves to his brain, get up right after, get internal damage shockwaves sent to his chest, take a giant explosion, and get up right after.

Sanji could take having five large spikes driven into him, hit into them again, slammed down into the ground, get up again, destroy the Groggy Brothers

Sanji took getting nailed in the face by Kaku while being off guard and got up right after just to get hit with Rankyaku while being off guard again. He got up right after.

Sanji took torturous beatdown by Kalifa, had a bathtub dropped on him, got up to fight Jabra, took an amped Don Po Ro, took 5 Rankyakurs to the face and got up afterwarads, got stabbed in 5 different spots in his torso, and fought off marines while in this state

Sanji took getting wailed on by Absalom, stabbed through his heart area, immediately recovered and KOd Absalom. While having a hole in his chest, he got smacked around by Oars, got up, got hit with a point-blank Gum Gum Gattling from Oars, got up, had his head burned off, fractured his leg, took Ursus Shock, got up.

Sanji had his body blown up, had his Fibula cracked, and kept fighting.

Sanji took Doffy's Pentachromatic Strings, and instantly got back up

Sanji got slammed to the ground, kicked to the face and sent flying, got shafted (lol)

And then his Onigashima stuff


Sanji took having all of his bones broken + having his organs destroyed beyond repair, and said it "stings a bit"

It's good to seperate headcannon and One Piece cannon. You should try it some time.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If that's how you want to do it, fine

Kidd didn't take half as many hits from BM as Sanji took from Queen+King+Maria.

Not because of your points, at all, you're literally treating durability feats as stamina.

First of all.
He got beat up by Maria, but was practically fine when the time came to fight Queen.
I don't remember his "fight" with King well, I recall him getting hit once or twice and said hits hurting but not too badly.
Kidd was constantly taking hits from BM ( and maybe Kaidou ) who, again, scales significantly above Sanji Queen and Maria. Said hits did indeed hurt, but he endured them and kept hitting Big Mom. That is a stamina feat, look up the word, he's powering through her strikes and countering them.
Now that I've covered the peanut gallery banter, on to the main course.

Sanji's Stamina


Sanji ran nonstop for several months, possibly years, being pursued by the Okamas, giving him barely any time to eat or rest. While undergoing these conditions, Sanji was able to not only survive, but he was able to beat 100 Okama Kenpo Masters with each of them being as strong, if not stronger than him.


Sanji could take having his organs completely crushed under pressure and get up, still being able to combo and defeat Kuroobi. Directly after, he fought Arlong) and got destroyed, but was still able to get up to save Luffy from drowning.

Sanji could take having a hole punched through his shoulder, get up right after, break a couple bones and beat Bon Clay. While having broken bones, he was still able to run around the Kingdom or Alabasta.

Sanji could take having internal damage shockwaves to his brain, get up right after, get internal damage shockwaves sent to his chest, take a giant explosion, and get up right after.

Sanji could take having five large spikes driven into him, hit into them again, slammed down into the ground, get up again, destroy the Groggy Brothers

Sanji took getting nailed in the face by Kaku while being off guard and got up right after just to get hit with Rankyaku while being off guard again. He got up right after.

Sanji took torturous beatdown by Kalifa, had a bathtub dropped on him, got up to fight Jabra, took an amped Don Po Ro, took 5 Rankyakurs to the face and got up afterwarads, got stabbed in 5 different spots in his torso, and fought off marines while in this state

Sanji took getting wailed on by Absalom, stabbed through his heart area, immediately recovered and KOd Absalom. While having a hole in his chest, he got smacked around by Oars, got up, got hit with a point-blank Gum Gum Gattling from Oars, got up, had his head burned off, fractured his leg, took Ursus Shock, got up.

Sanji had his body blown up, had his Fibula cracked, and kept fighting.

Sanji took Doffy's Pentachromatic Strings, and instantly got back up

Sanji got slammed to the ground, kicked to the face and sent flying, got shafted (lol)

And then his Onigashima stuff


Sanji took having all of his bones broken + having his organs destroyed beyond repair, and said it "stings a bit"

I'm not gonna lie I ain't reading all that, so maybe someone else can cover it.
I will address the part at the bottom, as he only survived his getting bones broken and organs being popped due to his regen.
And I doubt this would help him if he got hit by a railgun to the face.

Both Ifrit Jambe and Diable Jambe are durability negation, so that point is moot.

Someone do the same for Kidd. If you can't do even 50% of this, then we should just drop the Kidd stamina > Sanji stamina debate because it's a flat out lie.

Now, Sanji has better haki to negate his heat resistance
Sanji has heat hot enough to cook Kidd and vaporize his metals, only leaving him with Assign and fists to fight with

This just isn't correct.
As I said before, not only could Sanji's DJ heat not burn Queen's metal arm, but someone with comparable/superior flames couldn't actually melt Kidd's metal structure.
He also took Heavily Bonbons pretty easily.
Also Sanji can't do anything if he gets a hole put through his chest.

Sanji is multiple blitz levels faster than Kidd

I'm not even going to talk about this tomfoolery lol.

Sanji is much smarter and more tactical

Read Kidd's fight with BM and tell me he isn't intelligent especially with how he uses his fruit.

Sanji has observation haki good enough that even if Kidd can somehow react to a single attack and try to counter with Assign, he could just read his intentions and dodge.

Sure... except not even Big Mom could do that.

Know what? Just, read this list of feats. It shows feats for Big Mom and shows her hitting Kidd a few times.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Remember who you are debating...

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Remember who are debating...

Wha?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Wha?

That... Not even oda himself would convince him to switch against sanji

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That... Not even oda himself would convince him to switch against sanji

Heh, you're not wrong.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm not gonna lie I ain't reading all that, so maybe someone else can cover it.

Then don't reply to it.

as he only survived his getting bones broken and organs being popped due to his regen.

He didn't regen until after the statement. That still falls under Injury Tolerance Stamina.

As I said before, not only could Sanji's DJ heat not burn Queen's metal arm, but someone with comparable/superior flames couldn't actually melt Kidd's metal structure.
He also took Heavily Bonbons pretty easily.

Akainu's ambient heat was able to vaporize steel. Sanji's heat is many times hotter than that. Kidd uses normal scrap metal. It's not like it randomly gains resistances just because Kidd puts them together with magnets.

I don't know how many damn times I have to tell you

LOOK AT THE ******* SCALING CHAIN

It's not that hard to do and it's getting so damn irritating because in every thread you spout nonsensical bullshit about why your character wins when the used and canon scaling chains disagree with you.

Read Kidd's fight with BM and tell me he isn't intelligent especially with how he uses his fruit.

I never said Kidd wasn't smart.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Then don't reply to it.

He didn't regen until after the statement. That still falls under Injury Tolerance Stamina.

Akainu's ambient heat was able to vaporize steel. Sanji's heat is many times hotter than that. Kidd uses normal scrap metal. It's not like it randomly gains resistances just because Kidd puts them together with magnets.

I don't know how many damn times I have to tell you

LOOK AT THE ******* SCALING CHAIN

It's not that hard to do and it's getting so damn irritating because in every thread you spout nonsensical bullshit about why your character wins when the used and canon scaling chains disagree with you.


I never said Kidd wasn't smart.

" Erm Thanji'th heat ith many timeth hotter than that!! " Does he know that Kidd took heat hotter than that as well?
Like, all this about Sanji's scaling chains and what not when you're just blatantly ignoring Kidd's metal withstanding hotter flames and Kidd him self withstanding flames hotter than Akainu's ambient heat and comparable to Sanji's

 

[Kachon123]

ignoring Kidd's metal withstanding hotter flames

They
Are
Not
Hotter
Than
Sanji's
Flames

All of your arguments for Kidd is that because he fought Big Mom, he is stronger.

"Big Mom has hotter flames because she's Big Mom" is not a damn argument

I refuse to debate with someone who has shown time and time again that they don't know how to formulate a basic argument and provide proof.

I'm just going to start ignoring you, as thats what you seem to have been doing to the thousands of words typed by both myself and @XDragnoir to try to explain to your unbearably annoying self.

 

[Kachon123]

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

They
Are
Not
Hotter
Than
Sanji's
Flames

All of your arguments for Kidd is that because he fought Big Mom, he is stronger.

"Big Mom has hotter flames because she's Big Mom" is not a damn argument

I refuse to debate with someone who has shown time and time again that they don't know how to formulate a basic argument and provide proof.

I'm just going to start ignoring you, as thats what you seem to have been doing to the thousands of words typed by both myself and @XDragnoir to try to explain to your unbearably annoying self.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the scaling chain some thing like
Akainu's ambient heat < WCI Luffy < DJ heat?
But, BM also slightly burned Luffy on the Roof Top with Heavily Bonbon, so she should at least be comparable to his heat.
Also it's not because she's Big Mom, it's because her stats are mostly higher than Sanji's.
Stop whining because you don't have a good argument, we're on Vsbattles and you're acting like you're on Worstgen or something.

 

[Kachon123]

Akainu's ambient heat < WCI Luffy < DJ heat?

Akainu ambient heat < WCI Luffy < WCI DJ < Queen Resistance < Post Exo DJ < Ifrit

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Okay.
Well, like I said, BM's flames should at least be higher than WCI DJ, and Kidd took them, so he should be able to withstand a few DJs/IJs.

 

[Kachon123]

Kidd took them

He got effected by the heat.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I'm gonna vote for Kid based on his durability and speed he displayed when he fought Big Mom, which is a far greater feat compared to what Sanji displayed against Queen. Even if Sanji's Ifrit Jambe is hotter than Kid's heat resistance, it shouldn't be so much hotter that Kid's incapacitated after a single blow. He'd probably be able to endure much longer than Sanji and eventually overpower him with his metal manipulation abilities.

 

[Kachon123]

speed he displayed when he fought Big Mom, which is a far greater feat compared to what Sanji displayed against Queen.

That's wrong.

Even if Sanji's Ifrit Jambe is hotter than Kid's heat resistance, it shouldn't be so much hotter that Kid's incapacitated after a single blow

That's also wrong, as whenever Sanji uses Ifrit, he has haki coated on his leg. Since Sanji has greater Buso than Kidd, the resistance negstion effect of Haki would kick in, making Kidd's resistance the same level as a normal human

He'd probably be able to endure

If these were normal strikes, than sure, but because they're haki infused heat based dura neg attacks, his insides would literally be getting cooked by attacks over 27 thousands degrees, while his resistance would only be normal human resistance (around 100 to 150 degrees)

eventually overpower him with his metal manipulation abilities.

This would literally happen to any of the metal attacks Kidd brings near Diable Jambe or Ifrit Jambe.

 

[Eseseso]

Let me ask this: If Sanji had been in Kidd's place against Big Mom (removing his rule of never harming women), do you think he could have inflicted or endured anywhere near the damage that Kidd did during the fight?

 

[Eseseso]

If these were normal strikes, than sure, but because they're haki infused heat based dura neg attacks, his insides would literally be getting cooked by attacks over 27 thousands degrees, while his resistance would only be normal human resistance (around 100 to 150 degrees)

And yet, we didn't see Sanji cook Queen.

What, you're gonna say Sanji melts Shanks and Mihawk with Ifrit Jambe?

 

[XDragnoir]

And yet, we didn't see Sanji cook Queen.

Worst argument possible, we know Queen can take several DJ's hits without getting even notably burnt so we know his resistance is vastly above DJ's heat which also means it's vastly above Kid's given he was notably burnt by Prometheus.

What, you're gonna say Sanji melts Shanks and Mihawk with Ifrit Jambe?

Has nothing to do with the arguments anyone here ever posted, so a nice strawman.

 

[XDragnoir]

First of all.
He got beat up by Maria, but was practically fine when the time came to fight Queen.

That's him recovering from damage, which just rises the burden on his stamina.

I don't remember his "fight" with King well, I recall him getting hit once or twice and said hits hurting but not too badly.

They traded a few blows then he got damaged on his head against Zoan King (Zoan King should scale above 1 Homie BM btw).

After that Sanji had to hold Queen and King for a bit off-screen.

Kidd was constantly taking hits from BM ( and maybe Kaidou ) who, again, scales significantly above Sanji Queen and Maria. Said hits did indeed hurt, but he endured them and kept hitting Big Mom.

First, how many hits did he take in the Rooftop fight? I remember 2 or 3.

Second, idk why you keep talking about AP scaling in the goddamn stamina topic, it doesn't make the feat any more impressive... and Kid was never even ******* hit by a Hao Coated attack or anything like that, Base Big Mom doesn't scale significantly above Sanji at all.

That is a stamina feat, look up the word, he's powering through her strikes and countering them.
Now that I've covered the peanut gallery banter, on to the main course.

Which is still not as good as stamina feat compared to all of Sanji's stamina feats, wtf?

 

[Kachon123]

Let me ask this: If Sanji had been in Kidd's place against Big Mom (removing his rule of never harming women), do you think he could have inflicted or endured anywhere near the damage that Kidd did during the fight?

Yes.

What, you're gonna say Sanji melts Shanks and Mihawk with Ifrit Jambe?

Irrelevant.

And yet, we didn't see Sanji cook Queen.

We see him covered in burns. The burns are mostly internal though.

 

[Kin201]

Kid fought BM alongside Law and has much higher bounty than Sanji. You got the implications.

 

[Kachon123]

Kid fought BM alongside Law and has much higher bounty than Sanji. You got the implications.

Those don't really matter when Sanji is blitz levels faster, has better haki, can negate Kidd's heat resistance with said haki, and has heat hotter than anything he's ever dealt with thats also cooks internally. He also has regen to heal from virtually any injury that Kidd could deal to him.

 

[XDragnoir]

Kid fought BM alongside Law and has much higher bounty than Sanji. You got the implications.

Are we resorting to Bounty scaling now? Of all things? The **** is happening with OP scalers now days?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

" The **** is happening with OP scalers nowadays? "
Meanwhile

Those don't really matter when Sanji is blitz levels faster, has better haki, can negate Kidd's heat resistance with said haki, and has heat hotter than anything he's ever dealt with thats also cooks internally. He also has regen to heal from virtually any injury that Kidd could deal to him.

( Almost all of this is a fallacy btw, Sanji isn't blitz levels faster as Kidd and others were reacting to Kaidou and BM's attacks and his flames aren't much higher than the ones Kidd has taken before )

Second, idk why you keep talking about AP scaling in the goddamn stamina topic, it doesn't make the feat any more impressive... and Kid was never even ******* hit by a Hao Coated attack or anything like that, Base Big Mom doesn't scale significantly above Sanji at all.

Imagine trying to mock AP scaling when it's clear that someone taking multiple hits from X who is stronger than Y and can keep going after said hits means they can endure hits from Y even better.

Y'all some goons trying to mock others for their takes when you're spreading blatant lies just because you're Sanji fans.
Also,

Worst argument possible, we know Queen can take several DJ's hits without getting even notably burnt so we know his resistance is vastly above DJ's heat which also means it's vastly above Kid's given he was notably burnt by Prometheus.

Has nothing to do with the arguments anyone here ever posted, so a nice strawman.

Even if he was notably burnt by Prometheus, again he still can take a few of those flames and keep going despite that.
Also I'd like for you both to stop wanking DJ and IJ because Sanji couldn't even melt Queen's metal arm.
He also had to kick Queen several times to even knock him out with IJ, and it's self explanatory why this wasn't that impressive if you consider all the stuff he took before it.

And stop acting like Kidd can't defend it against his hits. Even if we have no Haki feats from him, we know he can block with his metal structures and put them back together after they're split.

 

[Eseseso]

Kid fought BM alongside Law and has much higher bounty than Sanji. You got the implications.

We don't really trust bounty scaling, but it's clear narratively that Kidd is just on a higher level than Sanji.

Kidd wins this mid-high diff.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

We don't really trust bounty scaling, but it's clear narratively that Kidd is just on a higher level than Sanji.

Kidd wins this mid-high diff.

Agreed.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes.

How?

It took Law and Kidd using their best attacks together just to break her bones, and her AP and durability are both beyond what Sanji can handle.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Law and Kidd were constantly taking punches from an enraged Life Amped ( sometimes Buso amped as well ) Bigger Mom, among other things.
And y'all think Sanji, who's neck was stinging from Queen's sword, is winning against them.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

honestly think sanji wins just from his speed alone, base sanji perception blitzed queen, and if you stack diable or ifrit on top of that...
kidd beats sanji in ap and dura but i dont think kidd will land a single hit

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Yes.

That’s basically the equivalent of saying Zoro could win against Kaido. A match like that was made before, and it was deemed a stomp in Kaido’s favor. Sanji and Zoro aren’t Yonko-level yet, while Law and Kid are, or at least closer to Yonko-level since they also literally became Yonko.

 

[Eminiteable]

while Law and Kid are, or at least closer to Yonko-level since they also literally became Yonko.

This is false.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That’s basically the equivalent of saying Zoro could win against Kaido. A match like that was made before, and it was deemed a stomp in Kaido’s favor. Sanji and Zoro aren’t Yonko-level yet, while Law and Kid are, or at least closer to Yonko-level since they also literally became Yonko.

law and kid arent yonko,also by that logic buggy is yonko level.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I think he said they're Yonko due to the bounties.
They'd only be Yonko level for scaling to their AP via severely injuring BM and hurting Kaidou, then a downscale for taking their attacks albeit injured.

 

[Eseseso]

A tired Base Big Mom did more damage to Queen than Exoskeleton DJ Sanji did.

Kidd matched a much stronger Big Mom off-screen before Law even arrived.

 

[Eminiteable]

A tired Base Big Mom did more damage to Queen than Exoskeleton DJ Sanji did.

Tbf he didn't take any noticeable damage from her first strike, it was only the big swinging move that damaged & knocked him out of Zoan form.

 

[Eseseso]

Tbf he didn't take any noticeable damage from her first strike, it was only the big swinging move that damaged & knocked him out of Zoan form.

Still means he was damaged by a Big Mom much weaker than the one Kidd took like a dozen hits from.

 

[Eminiteable]

Still means he was damaged by a Big Mom much weaker than the one Kidd took like a dozen hits from.

Queen took a strike to the head from that nerfed big Mom and wasn't noticeably damaged. There's also the attacks he took from Marco.

Kid took a alot of big hits from Big Mom but he also still took a regular strike to the head from Big Mom and was still damaged.

I just don't think the difference is as massive as some are making it out to be.