DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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No way bro said that Sanji is faster than Misery.
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Sanji Fights Another Supernova
- Thread starter KochengPutih
- Start date
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DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Real quick, what are Sanji's wincons besides the heat?
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Besides possibly Ifrit Jambe?
Nothing, really.
Even Ifrit Jambe is only about Marco level in AP, while Kidd ate a lot of hits from someone way above that and kept going. Yes, he was knocked out for a minute by a beatdown from Bigger Mom, but after 30-60 seconds he got up and had enough juice to use his 2 strongest attacks.
Kid's durability =< Bigger Mom's AP >> 3-Homie Big Mom w/ Hao Infusion >> 1-Homie Big Mom = Hybrid Marco = Ifrit Jambe Sanji
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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How is it Marco level in AP when he needed like 12 IJ kicks to take out a half-conscious beaten up Queen?
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Speed
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I mean, Sanji still defeated Queen and knocked him out of his Zoan form when Marco couldn't, and Sanji was just as tired as Queen was, since he collapsed right after the fight, and had earlier said that he and Queen were equally tired.
We even see when Queen is falling off Onigashima that he was knocked out of his transformation.
Even Kingtempest himself kinda implied that Ifrit Jambe was the only Sanji form that scaled to Marco's level.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Not really, I've got to find scans of it but Kidd does dodge/take attacks from BM and her homies ( like the one with Misery ).
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Sanji:
Base Sanji = Zoan Queen =< Diable Jambe (As he was somewhat able to react to Diable Jambe like when he blocked it with Buso Haki) << Enhanced Speed < Ifrit Jambe
Kidd:
Base Sanji ~ Zoan Queen << Big Mom / Zoan Marco < Big Mom w/ Homies = Kidd.
Sanji and Kidd both scale above Zoan Queen's speed twice, although I'd lean more in favor of Ifrit Jambe.
But Kidd still has enough reaction speed to keep up (such as blocking kicks), and his Punk Corna Dio blitzed Big Mom so once Sanji exits Ifrit Jambe from exhaustion it could hit him as well.
Base Sanji = Zoan Queen =< Diable Jambe (As he was somewhat able to react to Diable Jambe like when he blocked it with Buso Haki) << Enhanced Speed < Ifrit Jambe
Kidd:
Base Sanji ~ Zoan Queen << Big Mom / Zoan Marco < Big Mom w/ Homies = Kidd.
Sanji and Kidd both scale above Zoan Queen's speed twice, although I'd lean more in favor of Ifrit Jambe.
But Kidd still has enough reaction speed to keep up (such as blocking kicks), and his Punk Corna Dio blitzed Big Mom so once Sanji exits Ifrit Jambe from exhaustion it could hit him as well.
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Um, no.
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Never happened
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Those 2 contradict each other heavily.
So you think Sanji can overcome Kidd's vastly superior AP, stamina, durability, and comparable reaction speed?
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Why does Bigger Mom scale above 3 Homie Hao Big Mom?
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This just isn't a thing.
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Lasted much longer against a far stronger opponent and took far more hits.
Reacted to Homie Big Mom, who scales above Big Mom, who is faster than Queen (and is equal to Marco who also outsped Queen).
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Lasted longer? I am nearly sure that their main fights started around the same time and Sanji took much more damage before his fight with Queen than Kid took damage during the rooftop fight (i think we saw he getting hit 2 or 3 times there) Also being far stronger has nothing to do with stamina.
I really doubt Kid took more hits than Sanji, mainly because Kid wasn't alone during any of his Wano fights, Sanji had his brief fight with King, got beaten by Maria and then had his fight with Queen and even Queen+King for some time.
Homie BM scales above her base in AP, when did it ever increase her speed?
And Marco's feat against Queen is worse than Post-Awakening Sanji's feats, Queen was able to perceive his attack but simply couldn't react in time, while Awakening Sanji is too fast for Queen to even perceive.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Get a room.
Wtf??
Post-Awakening was against a tired and eventually half-conscious Queen.. You do the math.
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Did you read Onigashima? Sanji was literally just as tired and literally said so.
It was "30%" Queen vs "30%" Sanji, they were equally ****** at that point.
DaMonkeMan
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Sanji only passed out due to Ifrit Jambe honestly.
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...
We aren't reading the same manga, there's bo way you actually believe what you just said.
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- Thread starter
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30% just because Black Maria?
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Not to mention Queen had taken damage from Marco and also had been fighting Chopper for 20-30 minutes.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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I love how they called me a liar after they also lied.
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He could barely walk afterwards.
Also, he solod the live floor while carrying Zoro
Then he fought King + Queen at the same time while Zoro and Marco were down
So yes, 30%
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Kidd was suffering so much from Hawkins that he couldn't stand, ate a point-blank Mama Raid (which dwarves all of Queen's abilities in terms of raw power), and was fine.
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I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. This doesn't factor into stamina at all. It's a moot point.
Sanji went through a shit ton more.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Doesn't it factor into stamina/endurance if you're taking attacks from someone stronger than you and you keep fighting?
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I wasn't being literal with the numbers, which you seem to assume i was.
And no, Sanji also fought King twice and more than half of his fight with Queen happened before he got the power up.
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Sanji's Stamina
Sanji could take having a hole punched through his shoulder, get up right after, break a couple bones and beat Bon Clay. While having broken bones, he was still able to run around the Kingdom or Alabasta.
Sanji could take having internal damage shockwaves to his brain, get up right after, get internal damage shockwaves sent to his chest, take a giant explosion, and get up right after.
Sanji could take having five large spikes driven into him, hit into them again, slammed down into the ground, get up again, destroy the Groggy Brothers
Sanji took getting nailed in the face by Kaku while being off guard and got up right after just to get hit with Rankyaku while being off guard again. He got up right after.
Sanji took torturous beatdown by Kalifa, had a bathtub dropped on him, got up to fight Jabra, took an amped Don Po Ro, took 5 Rankyakurs to the face and got up afterwarads, got stabbed in 5 different spots in his torso, and fought off marines while in this state
Sanji took getting wailed on by Absalom, stabbed through his heart area, immediately recovered and KOd Absalom. While having a hole in his chest, he got smacked around by Oars, got up, got hit with a point-blank Gum Gum Gattling from Oars, got up, had his head burned off, fractured his leg, took Ursus Shock, got up.
Sanji had his body blown up, had his Fibula cracked, and kept fighting.
Sanji took Doffy's Pentachromatic Strings, and instantly got back up
Sanji got slammed to the ground, kicked to the face and sent flying, got shafted (lol)
And then his Onigashima stuff
Sanji ran nonstop for several months, possibly years, being pursued by the Okamas, giving him barely any time to eat or rest. While undergoing these conditions, Sanji was able to not only survive, but he was able to beat 100 Okama Kenpo Masters with each of them being as strong, if not stronger than him.
Sanji could take having his organs completely crushed under pressure and get up, still being able to combo and defeat Kuroobi. Directly after, he fought Arlong) and got destroyed, but was still able to get up to save Luffy from drowning.
Sanji could take having a hole punched through his shoulder, get up right after, break a couple bones and beat Bon Clay. While having broken bones, he was still able to run around the Kingdom or Alabasta.
Sanji could take having internal damage shockwaves to his brain, get up right after, get internal damage shockwaves sent to his chest, take a giant explosion, and get up right after.
Sanji could take having five large spikes driven into him, hit into them again, slammed down into the ground, get up again, destroy the Groggy Brothers
Sanji took getting nailed in the face by Kaku while being off guard and got up right after just to get hit with Rankyaku while being off guard again. He got up right after.
Sanji took torturous beatdown by Kalifa, had a bathtub dropped on him, got up to fight Jabra, took an amped Don Po Ro, took 5 Rankyakurs to the face and got up afterwarads, got stabbed in 5 different spots in his torso, and fought off marines while in this state
Sanji took getting wailed on by Absalom, stabbed through his heart area, immediately recovered and KOd Absalom. While having a hole in his chest, he got smacked around by Oars, got up, got hit with a point-blank Gum Gum Gattling from Oars, got up, had his head burned off, fractured his leg, took Ursus Shock, got up.
Sanji had his body blown up, had his Fibula cracked, and kept fighting.
Sanji took Doffy's Pentachromatic Strings, and instantly got back up
Sanji got slammed to the ground, kicked to the face and sent flying, got shafted (lol)
And then his Onigashima stuff
Sanji took having all of his bones broken + having his organs destroyed beyond repair, and said it "stings a bit"
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First, was it from Base Linlin or from Bigger Mom? If you have the scan it would help a lot too.
First and foremost, everyone is in the same value so any strength gap is negligible or slightly noticeable at best, second, it doesn't factor into stamina if the one receiving the attack has durability on par with the attack strength, at least not to the extent you're implying it would.
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Yes, but only if it's comparing it standalone.
You can't say that Kidd stamina > Sanji stamina because he took attacks from someone stronger than the person Sanji fought.
Taking attacks from someone stronger than you is completely relative. If we compare a normal human gets hit with a wrecking ball and is mangled, but can keep going and a High 6-A dude who can tank attacks from another High 6-A dude, the normal human would have better stamina.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 17,847
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Still, Kidd was taking attacks from someone who's >> Sanji and was actually conscious longer than him iirc.
It's safe to say that at the least, his stamina is equal to Sanji's.
So I wonder, what's Sanji's wincons again?
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Someone do the same for Kidd. If you can't do even 50% of this, then we should just drop the Kidd stamina > Sanji stamina debate because it's a flat out lie.
Now, Sanji has better haki to negate his heat resistance
Sanji has heat hot enough to cook Kidd and vaporize his metals, only leaving him with Assign and fists to fight with
Sanji is multiple blitz levels faster than Kidd
Sanji is much smarter and more tactical
Sanji has observation haki good enough that even if Kidd can somehow react to a single attack and try to counter with Assign, he could just read his intentions and dodge.
