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Sanji vs Marco

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Kachon123

Kachon123

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Remaking this match because it got removed for some reason. Hopefully this time we can actually come to a conclusion.

Post-Wano Sanji is being used
Location: Onigashima Live Floor
Starting Distance: 10 Meters


https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/837119896848171028/1163543499401084968/337558729_566448132251327_48706081843126001_n.png?ex=653ff553&is=652d8053&hm=a43280c4ab9d85dbd3a8193e48950c84173d8df126c42f5ea3ab3ec8295c0c75&
b4e4aef9b0ecf6e31151d83003f7a90f.png


Sanji: 8 (@Kachon123, @noninho, @Lynieryz, @Arc7Kuroi, @ZKillerz, @OhMika, @Eseseso, @XDragnoir)
Marco: 2 (@SlendVeny, @Darkvie123)
Inconclusive: 2 (@Eminiteable, @Yoh_Asakura8)
 
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Sanji's Advantages: AP, Speed, Durability, Stamina
Marco's Advantages: Regen, Flame negation, Experience
 
Yeah, while Marco does negate the flames, Sanji's Buso plus him being a tank is really gonna give Marco a bad time.

Not voting yet though.
 
Haki Scaling:

Current Marco's Haki > Ace Novel Marco's Haki > Stronger Ace's Haki > Sabaody Ace's Haki ~ Draw's Haki > Average Haki (4 layers)

Current Sanji's Haki > Onigashima Sanji's Haki > Beginning of Wano Sanji's Haki > Dressrosa-WCI Sanji's Haki > FMI-Punk Hazard Sanji's Haki (4 layers)

Their Haki should be relative to each other
 
Marco has better buso, thought many top tiers at marineford, held back queen and king for a long period of time alone.

Thought against the strongest and dealt significant damage to admiral lvl beings who are >> yk commanders.

Ight so, basically right now all ima say is marco counters being fire himself who can regen from being lacerated by kizaru's lasers.
 
Kachon123 said:
Current Marco's Haki > Ace Novel Marco's Haki > Stronger Ace's Haki > Sabaody Ace's Haki ~ Draw's Haki > Average Haki (4 layers)
Click to expand...
Marco's haki layers would look like this at the very least:
The Average Haki < Draw's Haki ~ Sabaody Ace's Haki < Post-Sabaody Ace's Haki < Post-Wano Ace's Haki < Jinbe Vs Ace Haki < Ace Novel Marco's Haki

As for whether or not Marco's haki improved after the novel, Marineford, payback war and the Wano Raid Is up to interpretation I guess.
 
Yoh_Asakura8 said:
Marco has better buso, thought many top tiers at marineford, held back queen and king for a long period of time alone.

Thought against the strongest and dealt significant damage to admiral lvl beings who are >> yk commanders.

Ight so, basically right now all ima say is marco counters being fire himself who can regen from being lacerated by kizaru's lasers.
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Marco does not have better Buso unless proven otherwise.

Marco never held back Queen and King for a long period of time. He fought both of them for half a chapter, and then fought King for some time and ended up being floored.

Marco never did any significant damage to any admirals or admiral level fighters. Against Kizaru, he kicked him into rubble and did no damage. Against Kuzan, he kicked him far away while he was off guard and still did no damage. Against Base Big Mom, he did he didn't harm her. Against King he did 0 damage. Against Queen he couldn't deal any significant damage outside of drawing blood from him while off guard in the throat.

Marco's regeneration is based on his stamina, which we know doesn't last forever as seen in his fight against King, and although he recovered his stamina shortly after, that was only because King shifted his focus, attacking the alliance instead. I heavily doubt Sanji would just walk away from Marco.

Marco may be able to counter fire-based attacks, but that is only when his flames comes into contact with them. Sanji isn't dumb, so once flames get blown away once or twice, he'd realize that Marco's flames blow away his own. After that, he'd just use his superior speed and kenbun to avoid coming into contact with Marco's flames, which shouldn't be hard for him considering precision is one of his specialties (look at Sanji's Parage Shot, where he pinpoints specific bones and muscles in the body to rearrange their structure).

Regardless, even if Marco does blow away the flames from Sanji's kicks, the AP and Speed boost he gains from them would still remain, which means that the actual force of the attack would still harm Marco.
 
Eminiteable said:
Marco's haki layers would look like this at the very least:
The Average Haki < Draw's Haki ~ Sabaody Ace's Haki < Post-Sabaody Ace's Haki < Post-Wano Ace's Haki < Jinbe Vs Ace Haki < Ace Novel Marco's Haki
Click to expand...
Alright, so Marco has 5 layers of Haki.

I don't want to simply raise Sanji's Haki because Marco's was raised as well, but Sanji's could also be argued higher as well due to his WCI Haki being possibly stronger than his Haki on Dressrosa, but I digress. It shouldn't really matter much either way.
 
Kachon123 said:
Marco does not have better Buso unless proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
Show me one scan of sanji even using good buso. His buso in wci was really poor and there's no proof of it being greater in Wano due to usages of raid suit and exoskeleton to help improve his offence.
 
Kachon123 said:
Haki Scaling:

Current Marco's Haki > Ace Novel Marco's Haki > Stronger Ace's Haki > Sabaody Ace's Haki ~ Draw's Haki > Average Haki (4 layers)

Current Sanji's Haki > Onigashima Sanji's Haki > Beginning of Wano Sanji's Haki > Dressrosa-WCI Sanji's Haki > FMI-Punk Hazard Sanji's Haki (4 layers)

Their Haki should be relative to each other
Click to expand...
In no way shape or form Sanji rocking 4 layers. Punk hazard to beginning of wci should be same key🔑. I'd want a panel to prove sanji's haki has grown since this time frame. He said he's done a few haki training within the weeks before onigashima but is still hasn't been shown on the same tier as most mid tiers. Once again, his exoskeleton makes up for his offense. He's not a haki-man. He's a labrat.
 
Kachon123 said:
Clearly not in AP or Durability based on feats.
Click to expand...
Marco is the No.2 when it comes to battle power and is generally viewed as the strongest of the WB pirates behind WB himself.

Jozu also got a clean hit on Aokiji's body while Marco's attack against Kizaru was blocked and the attack on Aokiji hit his sword.
 
Eminiteable said:
Marco is the No.2 when it comes to battle power and is generally viewed as the strongest of the WB pirates behind WB himself.
Click to expand...
Battle power includes a vast array of things outside of AP in One Piece from Haki, to range, to even special abilities like regeneration.
 
Kachon123 said:
Battle power includes a vast array of things outside of AP in One Piece from Haki, to range, to even special abilities like regeneration.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but the criteria was more so rating regular strength since Bepo's Sulong was the reason he got the placement.

In general (with the exception of Shiryu since it covers a non confirmed member at the time it came out) the majority were just considered for being the strongest.
 
Regardless, Sanji has direct points of comparison to Marco in AP with Sanji being shown superior in AP via Queen, so wherever Marco scales in AP, Sanji would simply scale higher.
 
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Sanji was only shown superior due to marco having difficulty fighting both at the same time. If it was just one of them, things would've been different. He had the speed to out maneuver both and also send both flying with little difficulty. But again, it was still a struggle considering both are the same monsters that gave Zoro and Sanji themselves a run for their money.


Edit: not to mention that sanji was also there for a less amount of time with marco and couldn't keep pace with both coming at him
 
Yoh_Asakura8 said:
Sanji was only shown superior due to marco having difficulty fighting both at the same time. If it was just one of them, things would've been different. He had the speed to out maneuver both and also send both flying with little difficulty. But again, it was still a struggle considering both are the same monsters that gave Zoro and Sanji themselves a run for their money.


Edit: not to mention that sanji was also there for a less amount of time with marco and couldn't keep pace with both coming at him
Click to expand...
True but that was before Sanji's exoskeleton kicked in.
 
Eseseso said:
True but that was before Sanji's exoskeleton kicked in.
Click to expand...
His exoskeleton has been kicking in. It only grants him better dura and regen.

Marco kept pace with both for a long duration. Even with those, sanji wouldn't be able to do the same, he's not as skilled/experienced as marco. Marco had both in a headlock, sanji not doing that.

Edit: Marco can restrain sanji just the same.
 
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Seriously, a gatling gun attack from Queen affected Marco less than Morgan slashing Garp affected the big man.
 
SlendVeny said:
Piercing damage doesn't scale to AP. Especially with guns.
Click to expand...
Yes it does.

The reason a bullet does the damage that it does is because of its Kinetic Energy, as opposed to a bladed weapon where its edge could pierce an object without necessarily needed the amount of force needed to harm it otherwise.

If someone were to put a bullet on an object and press on it, the bullet wouldn't pierce through the object, but if they were use that same force on a knife, it might.

The Kinetic Energy of Queen's bullet was high enough to actually rip through Marco's body, in the same way that a punch would. The bullet just has a smaller surface area, meaning it has an easier time going through Marco's body. The fact that the force of the bullet was able to leave holes much larger than the actual bullet's size is more than enough proof that this actually scales to AP rather than it just being "piercing damage."
 
Kachon123 said:
Yes it does.

The reason a bullet does the damage that it does is because of its Kinetic Energy, as opposed to a bladed weapon where its edge could pierce an object without necessarily needed the amount of force needed to harm it otherwise.

If someone were to put a bullet on an object and press on it, the bullet wouldn't pierce through the object, but if they were use that same force on a knife, it might.

The Kinetic Energy of Queen's bullet was high enough to actually rip through Marco's body, in the same way that a punch would. The bullet just has a smaller surface area, meaning it has an easier time going through Marco's body. The fact that the force of the bullet was able to leave holes much larger than the actual bullet's size is more than enough proof that this actually scales to AP rather than it just being "piercing damage."
Click to expand...
Were they larger than the bullets? We never see the bullets.
 
Kachon123 said:
This doesn't really matter considering Sanji's vast speed advantage and precog with kenbun.

Even if he does happen to get grabbed, Sanji could just kick off Marco's wing the same way he did to Queen's arm, which we know he can do since Queen was able to pierce through Marco's body himself.
Click to expand...
His speed wouldn't play a huge factor considering marco kept pace with King and Queen who have tagged Sanji.

Marco kept pace with kizaru who is >> Sanji, king and queen. Also Marco intercepted his laser beam from a distance.

Marco has Observation haki too. Might not be as potent but he kept up with the best and held off 2 yonko commanders.
 
SlendVeny said:
Marco's head could easily fit in Queen's mouth.
Click to expand...
If you seriously thing that bullets smaller than these are as large as Marco's head, then we can drop this point. There's nothing even implying Queen's bullets are larger than normal ones.
 
Kachon123 said:
If you seriously thing that bullets smaller than these are as large as Marco's head, then we can drop this point. There's nothing even implying Queen's bullets are larger than normal ones.
Click to expand...
The bullet holes are several times smaller than Marco's head. And why do they scale to arms?
 
I don't see Sanji overpowering Kizaru in an aerial clash like Marco did tbh. Anyways im voting Marco Extreme Diff via better regen, flight, fighting experience, better Buso, and better defence with Undying Thistle which could block any attack from Sanji when it can defend against King, Akainus enraged punch, and Kaidou's Bolo Breath and also better endurance. Sanji got many wincons too like Speed Amps, Observation Haki, better AP, idk if his stamina is better ngl after using his IJ he seemed like he run out of stamina.
 
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