DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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I'm not gonna say it.
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Sanji vs Yamato Rematch
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
- 15,459
iirc his Zoan form is more durable/tough though
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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I could have sworn there was a point about a part of his body being more vulnerable in Hybrid form, I might be confusing him with Sasaki or something
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- Thread starter
- #86
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Didn’t know this
But her being ~< hybrid kaido > king > Queen would clearly make her superior to queen in stats
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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That aside, who are you voting for
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Idk yet… I’ve personally yet to see how Sanji takes out Yamato when he’s under her in physical stats and especially when they are at most comparable in haki
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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That's true, and Yamato has Conq Haki while he doesn't. Though his heat seems to be considerably above her ice, at least, and he's more mobile and versatile (somewhat).
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Which haki covers
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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True..
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
- 15,459
honestly might vote for yamato
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They will do small amounts of damages depending on the ability/effect
If Luffy uses haki while someone else uses haki on him, he’ll still slightly be able to defend against the attack with his rubber body
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Basically just small/some burn marks on Yamato, and with possibly stronger haki, fully tank it
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DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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Imma see if MOL's points are debunked/countered before I vote
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Yeah, it's on his profile.
Base King ~ Hybrid Queen tho, again, not presenting the whole scaling chain isn't a good argument for the reasons I said above.
Sanji himself scales to Base King, due to their clash when Sanji rescued Momo, so a full scaling chain would be like:
Base Queen < Hybrid Queen ~ Base King = Base Sanji < DJ Sanji ~ Exo Sanji < Exo+DJ < Exo + DJ + Superspeed < Ifrit + Superspeed
Not sure how exactly to compare King and Kaido, but assuming their Hybrids are even:
Base Kaido < Base King < Hybrid King ~ Hybrid Kaido < Hao Hybrid Yamato ~< Hao Hybrid Kaido
Kaido's stronger amps don't scale to Yamato AFAIK (Shuron Hakke, Super Hybrid, etc), so her scaling chain simply isn't as impressive as Sanji's (unless she has another amp I am forgetting).
I guess now y'all can see why these smaller scaling chains aren't reliable and with all that said, the gap from Ifrit to Hybrid Yamato is pretty noticeable, so Sanji with his amps has the edge in AP.
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Hybrid Yamato <~ Hybrid kaido > Hybrid king > hybrid queen
Doesn’t change much… still the same thing
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Two things, first why is Hybrid Kaido > Hybrid King? I placed them as "~" in my scaling because IMO their feats against Zoro are pretty even and that's ignoring the fact Zoro was stronger when he fought King.
Even if we follow the scaling you gave:
HYamato ~< HKaido > HKing > HQueen ~ Sanji < DJ Sanji < Exo+DJ < Exo+DJ+Superspeed < Ifrit
It really doesn't change much, Sanji still has the edge in AP, so like, can we go to another point? As others said, Sanji also takes Stamina, Endurance and Speed and I didn't see any counter to these claims.
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Used all those abilities against queen which made him pass out after ifrit… he’s still fighting someone stronger than queen. No matter what scaling you try to make
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Because he had been fighting for a long time? Like, Sanji went through multiple fights during the Raid (King, Black Maria and Queen, but he also spammed DJ to clean the fodder which also takes stamina away).
And that's ignoring the strain his body may have gone through from the genetic changes and the regen from being crushed.
There's no reason he'd be under such conditions against a single opponent who has few advantages over him.
Okay? Again, Sanji himself is stronger than Queen, how does that mean anything?
I "try to make"? Is there anything wrong with the scaling chains I presented? If so, my bad I guess, I am not trying to make a scaling chain that will give Sanji an advantage or anything like that, I am just making them as I recall the fights in Onigashima.
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Well no... I just simply don't have the info/contexts of everything to even evaluate your scaling which is why I said it wouldn't matter with trying to scaling things when there's a direct evidence of HYamato ~< HKaido > HKing > HQueen (Same power ups, King being confirmed 2nd strongest, kaido and big mom stated to be the current strongest in onigashima; Luffy and his allies have defeated the top executives of the Beasts Pirates one after another! Now, the only ones left are the two strongest "Yonko"!! Which side will emerge victorious in this battle for the dominance of the era!? )
HQueen ~ Sanji < DJ Sanji < Exo+DJ < Exo+DJ+Superspeed < Ifrit
All this can be interpreted differently (especially when we talk about durability)
not only is she >> hybrid queen in dura... She has a layer of armor as well
because it was still an extreme diff fight, and now he's fighting someone stronger
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And that direct evidence would be? I am not really getting your point here, but if you want scans or have a counter point to something I put in the scaling chains go ahead, I am pretty sure I can give you most of the scans (or Kachon can help, he is good at finding OP scans).
You think there can be a different interpretation for Sanji getting stronger the more amps he stacks? I don't see how that would be the case.
Like, IMO it's pretty obvious that the Exoskeleton, which raised Sanji's base stats would therefore raise the strength of his DJ and then using the superspeed would raise it further (the profile also says exactly this).
If you actually have a different interpretation you will have to be more specific about what exactly it is and how it affects his stats and power ups.
Sanji's durability is also way above Queen's, so? Indeed, when Sanji took that sword strike to the head iirc he wasn't even using Haki so his dura is definitely one of his strongest points.
As for her armor... cool? I really doubt her ice armor would withstand a barrage of attacks stronger than Yamato herself, again, all scaling chains so far clearly place Hybrid Yamato ~ Exo Sanji and her speed without her Thunder Bagua isn't enough to keep up with Sanji's Superspeed
Sanji didn't have access to half of his amps for most of the Raid, against Queen specifically he only got the Exoskeleton during the last 10-20 or so minutes of their fight.
Like, c'mon now, hadn't Queen used amps that went beyond his Hybrid Form the fight would have been completely one sided from the Exoskeleton's awakening onwards, we can see that from the fact Sanji was able to tear his arm off with a normal DJ strike.
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So your argument is his kicking power with ifrit jambe doing alot of damages to Yamato (Something Queen whose inferior in both stats and Haki was needed many strikes to deal with who also doesn't have the agility/speed to do anything)
I simply don't see sanji going all out and overcoming her defense before passing out
I simply don't see sanji going all out and overcoming her defense before passing out
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- Thread starter
- #107
Saying that Sanji "needed" that may strikes to defeat Queen is pretty funny when we literally see that Queen was on his knees leaking blood from Sanji's first kick and was unresponsive afterward with him being unconscious and out of his Zoan form the next time we see him.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
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Yeah, no, IJ isn't really doing anything to Yamato. It may wear her down but he'll need a lot of kicks to do so.
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As I explained above, Sanji didn't pass out simply because he used Ifrit Jambe, so I won't explain it again and instead will ask for you to read it.
As for "doing alot of damages"... no? Idk everyone else, but I am simply saying Sanji has the advantage in AP, no idea how you got to this conclusion
It will be a long fight no matter which side wins, he won't KO Yamato with the first DJ or Ifrit to the face or anything ridiculous like that, no one here is strong enough to have a quick win and no one is arguing there will be a quick win, as far as I could notice.
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yee that is why I'm saying her defense would be to strong for sanji to fully deal with... Especially when she likely also has stronger haki
Sure he might have stronger ap, but she definitely has the defensive for that
DaMonkeMan
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He doesn't have stronger AP dude where did you even get that from
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- Thread starter
- #113
Anyways, the more I think about it, the more it seems that Sanji has superior Busō to Yamato.
King and Queen have superior Haki to Marco for their damage done to him not being healed after using his devil fruit. Sanji has relative Haki to King and Queen at this point.
Both Yamato and Marco scale to 5 layers of Busō.
King and Queen have superior Haki to Marco for their damage done to him not being healed after using his devil fruit. Sanji has relative Haki to King and Queen at this point.
Both Yamato and Marco scale to 5 layers of Busō.
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that's what they are saying with ifrit
idk
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Yamato's Ice Shield isn't a starting defensive move for her as she only used it when she knew absolutely necessary (against Thunder Bagua). She usually opts toward blocking with her Kanabo.
While her ice shield could help in mitigating the damage done, we still need to remember that Sanji is far faster than her, strings several attacks together whenever he goes on the offensive, is coating in fire that would instantly melt the ice, and would only really help in blocking one attack. Sanji can literally just keep attacking if he wants.
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Sanji has higher stamina, he can simply wear Yamato down with attacks like Poêle à Frire and only use Ifrit when her armor shatters, he has higher stamina, speed, regen and skill as well overall tactics, he can find ways around her advantages throughout their fight.
Sanji's dura with Exo+Buso scales to Ifrit, so I really don't think her Dura with her Ice Armor is higher, they should be dead even in this regard, but Sanji has the benefit of not having to recreate it after taking a certain amount of damage, a layer of ice that covers her whole body is bound to take a notable amount of her stamina (iirc she didn't even recreate it after Kaido destroyed it, which corroborates with its stamina cost being high, but correct me if I am wrong).
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Yee... Too sus arguments for sanji in my view
Bye, not voting
Bye, not voting
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the controversial one is haki scaling and his kicking power being comparable to hybrid kaido's thunder bagua who hybrid kaido is already stronger than sanji
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Drop the ~
